For those of you that don't like Howard Dean

[Mass_Liberal]

go to www.deanforamerica.com (however much it may make you cringe) click Pressroom. Then click audio/video archives, ya with me so far? (I know all this navigating is annyoing) and click and watch Dean's speech to the California Teachers Convention.


I bet at least some of you will change your opinion of him. (or at least stop hating him). Well certainly you won't think he's a dolt.

[wyldwolf]

1. Never "hated" Howard Dean

...just found a handful of his overbearing "Dean can do no wrong" supporters to be a bit abrasive

Dean, the moderate, has always been alright with me. I've just hated how he has been made a saint by some and have demonstrated that his record doesn't match his reputation.

[Mass_Liberal]

2. did you watch the speech?

out of curiosity.

[wyldwolf]

3. No, but I've heard him speak before and I know he's a good speaker

[Mass_Liberal]

4. I don't think he's a saint

the man has made mistakes. Everyone does. But I do believe that he is a good man, that has his priorities straight. I think he can beat Bush. I think he can do positive things for this country.

[wyldwolf]

8. I didn't mean a literal saint....

...but there was a disturbing trend among some of his supporters to portray him as someone who has never been wrong and to rationalize away things from his record that contradicted the overall image of him.

Now I know supporters of all the candidates do that, but the Dean machine kicked into high gear, criticizing other candidates for things that, it was later revealed, Dean had done himself.

Funny, I never had a problem with those things (Dean's corporatism, for example) but deplored some of his supporters ragging the other candidates for similar things.

Now, I am only referring to a small but vocal batch of his supporters (like the ones who wrote the party chair of my county's democratic party a nasty letter for daring to have reps of Clark speak at a meeting despite the fact that Dean reps spoke two months prior.)

[Mass_Liberal]

9. I get what you meant

I think he has done wrong things. But so have each of the candidates you support. All the candidates are only human, all of us democrats need to remember that. They all make mistakes. But they're all good people.

[JohnKleeb]

11. exactly

Yeah all good people, its just that I agree with some more than others. None of these guys are worse than Bush. Now on the other hand Dennis Kucinich is still god :evilgrin:.

[Mass_Liberal]

12. heheh

you DK supporters and your idolatry make me laugh. ;-)

[JohnKleeb]

18. Yes and we are gonna ask him

to become King of Cleveland ;).
Truly, DK is one heck of guy, who I feel if people just gave heart would be getting more support.

[wyldwolf]

13. elf god

haha.. just kidding!

[JohnKleeb]

17. all good but you have to hand it to that elf

He truly is one hell of a guy.

[wyldwolf]

20. I've only had one problem with Kucinich...

...never saw it referred to here at DU, though, and I never mentioned it because I felt his overall platform trumped this issue (which happenned a long time ago.)

Kinda like Clark's overall record completely trumps his past voting record.

[JohnKleeb]

I tell you

Ive seen some people who detest each others first choice but they all have admiration for DK, now tell me hes unelectable how :shrug:
Its funny really.

[AntiCoup2K4]

30. Three words : Department of Peace

It just won't play in the current political climate. Dennis probably would have been a longshot even under the best of circumstances (given the corporatist grip of the DLC on this party) but you can't sell a "Department of Peace" to a population that's been manipulated into believing that every last one of the 1.3 billion Muslims on earth wants to rape their cats and kill their children.

[Paulie]

35. It's not a new idea: Here's the legislation he submitted in July, 2001!

It has 44 co-sponsors

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:HR02459:@@@L&summ2=m&

SUMMARY AS OF:
7/11/2001--Introduced.

Establishes a Department of Peace, which shall be headed by a Secretary of Peace appointed by the President, with the advice and consent of the Senate. Sets forth the mission of the Department, including to: (1) hold peace as an organizing principle; (2) endeavor to promote justice and democratic principles to expand human rights; and (3) develop policies that promote national and international conflict prevention, nonviolent intervention, mediation, peaceful resolution of conflict, and structured mediation of conflict.

Establishes in the Department the Intergovernmental Advisory Council on Peace, which shall provide assistance and make recommendations to the Secretary and the President concerning intergovernmental policies relating to peace and nonviolent conflict resolution.

Transfers to the Department the functions, assets, and personnel of various Federal agencies.

Establishes a Federal Interagency Committee on Peace.

Establishes Peace Day. Urges all citizens to observe and celebrate the blessings of peace and endeavor to create peace on such day.

[FreeperSlayer]

6. I second that....

....if Gov. Dean is the party nominee, I'll give my full support, and do everything possible to see that he gets elected.

[HFishbine]

5. Direct links

Dial-up: http://www.carlwithak.com/files/deanLA-052103-DU.wmv

High Speed: http://www.carlwithak.com/files/deanLA-060103-HS.wmv

[Mass_Liberal]

7. this speech is the best of Howard Dean

trust me. Even if you don't feel like it, do yourself a favor and watch it. Pleeeasse? :yourock:

[vi5]

10. Will there be any point where you are willing to accept the fact...

That there are plenty of people...staunchly liberal democrats, anti-war folks, and so on and so forth...who have actually researched the Dean campaign and Dean himself...who have watched all the interviews....who have seen him speak...who have researched his record.....

...and yet who still don't particularly care for him to be our candidate let alone president?

Honestly, this attitude that somehow people who aren't totally enthralled by the Dean candidacy simply haven't done their research or are ignoramouses who simply can't think for themselves is one reason why perhaps things have turned out the way they have.

I don't hate Dean. I never have. I simply look at things differently than a lot of his supporters. Why is that so hard for people to accept. I realize you didn't say anything particularly directly insulting, but still the implication that "How could you see this speech and not totally change your opinion" is absurd to me.

[JohnKleeb]

14. I dont hate Dean either

I just find his rhetoric different than his record number 1, plus his style isnt my prefered, Ive listened to a lot of speeches, and I prefer the Bobby Kennedy, while it may be "boring" to some, its generally beautiful to me at least and can even drive me to tears, I think DK is like that, I have one of his speeches. I appreciate MaLiberal's attempts though and respect for that, but as of today the only way I support Dean is if hes the nom or if it by some weird chance got down to him and Joementum.

[Mass_Liberal]

16. have any good DK speech links?

I'd be glad to watch them!

[JohnKleeb]

19. course I do

http://kucinichwatch.com/

[Mass_Liberal]

23. thanks

yummy speeches. He can get more of a crowd than I thought he could. I guess I underestimated him a bit:-)

[JohnKleeb]

29. Yep

but yes he can warm up a crowd, its because of the Croatian Lodge, they pay people in croatian money to clap ;). Rather you misunderstimated him.

[PassingFair]

34. I regret to inform you

that Bobby Kennedy is dead. Howard is the best orator the dems have.

[JohnKleeb]

37. I prefer Bobby Kennedy's style of speaking

I disagree with you that Dean is the best orator, I have to hear more.

[fujiyama]

38. I don't believe that...

and many other democrats don't either.

Just because someone disagrees with your candidate doesn't mean we're on crack, are "Bush lite" or republicans.

For all of Dean's speeches I've seen (and I've seen enough), I've never really been inspired. I also never found him particularly charismatic. I may have agreed with a lot of what he was saying especially with regard to the war, but I still wasn't inspired. I also found him somewhat arrogant and cock sure. I found his style of speaking awkward.

That doesn't mean I hate him. I think he has some decent ideas. But, he's just not my (and many others') preferred candidate.

[Mass_Liberal]

15. yes I understand that

I apologize if I offended. I certainly didn't intend to. I only thought that maybe you would enjoy his speech. As for the hating Dean bit, I was only addressing those that hate Dean. You of course have a right not to like him.

[JohnKleeb]

21. All good

Now tell me was Dean in Skull and Bones or not ;). I am teasing. Seriously though if people are so anti secret society, I would be looking at Kucinich, Edwards, or Sharpton then :evilgrin:, but someone would start saying the Croatian lodge rules America and the world :evilgrin:, and with Edwards the evil Millworkers Mafia ;), and Sharpton, the gang of Comical ministers. Yes DK belongs to the Croatian lodge.

[Uzybone]

22. LOL

n/t

[JohnKleeb]

26. You didnt know that the Croatian Lodge of Cleveland runs the world

Whats wrong with you? In that club they say stuff like


halo
dobar

John Kerrey je zlo èovjek tko ištanje to razoriti svjetski dan.

Dennis Kucinich je pa ipak bog.

Howard Naèelnik eats mica.

In the evil Millworkers Mafia, get this they talk about their millworker daddies.

[Mass_Liberal]

24. Heheheh

I love it. Gang of comical ministers.

[JohnKleeb]

27. I personally think that was my worst one :)

but Croatian Lodge is what runs American society despite I cant name any promient Croatians :evilgrin:. Croatian Lodge they do funny stuff like speak Croatian and eat Croatian food, and do Croatian stuff *Shock gasp* and one of their members is running for president.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

25. The "What I Want to Know." speech is his best.

03/15/2003

Address to California Democratic Party State Convention. (Sacramento, CA)


His questions are still valid.

[Mass_Liberal]

31. thats the one I was talking about

isn't it awesome? Best speech I have ever seen anyone make.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

36. It's pretty damn good.

Kucinich had a great speech last year, too. "A Prayer For America." http://www.house.gov/kucinich/press/sp-020217-prayer.htm And Gore had a couple of excellent speeches for MoveOn.org. Those were four of the best speeches I've ever heard.



Of course, Martin and Bobby were in a different league.

[texasmom]

28. I've never hated Dean...

In fact, I've always been very attracted to him and his candidacy. I've just thought that Clark was more of a sure thing for us--if there is one. I didn't appreciate his trying to mark Clark as vp material and then disputing that the discussions existed, and I didn't appreciate the "Clark is a Republican" subtle and not-so-subtle comments, but that's politics.

Dean truly inspired me, though, and I just hate, hate, hate what has happened in the last two weeks to him and his campaign. I almost feel that the press is the true enemy in this country. I can't figure out how we can combat what has happened to our press.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

32. I'm watching it now

He said "corporate bosses" and "self-organizing" - nice Dean.

"If our country is so rich, why am I barealy getting by?"

"Americans feel disconnected from the government and business leaders."

[Clark Can WIN]

33. I don't hate him - but I'll take a pass all the same

I think Dean has done great things for politics and campaigns and he should be congratulated for shaking things up. Beyond that there is really nothing he can change for me with a speech.