My LTTE made a Repub mad! Help me respond to his rant!

[CTyankee]

In my LTTE I said that the last prosecution and conviction of foreign terrorists in the U.S (for the 1993 WTC attack)happened during the Clinton admin. I wrote "We still await similar accomplishments from Bush."

The Repub who wrote back brought up the Khobar Towers and the USS Cole bombings in 1998 and 2000. I think my response should be:

*In 1998 Clinton was still pursuing Bin Laden while Republicans busied themselves with Monica Lewinsky. When Clinton tried to find and kill Bin Laden Republicans in Congress accused him of "wagging the dog."

*Clinton was paying attention to his PDB's (Presidential Daily Briefings)and most certainly would have taken action if one had read "Bin Laden determined to strike inside the U.S." Bush was on vacation.

*When he was leaving office, Clinton tried to warn Bush that the biggest threat to national security was Osama Bin Laden. The Bush Administration chose to focus on missile defense. At least Clinton tried.

Anything else I should say? Anyone have some good sources I can use to back up my statements?

[niceypoo]

1. Ask him....

"What was Bushes terrorism policy before 911?"

[seabeyond]

2. john oneil was invesigating the cole. bush pulled him off

said didnt matter. was like swatting the terrorist with a flyswatter. oh some such hogwash

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. I think that's pretty good!

I would add references to each statement, though, to show that all your statements are not only the truth, but are backed up by available public evidence.

[CTyankee]

6. Richard Clarke's book?

And another one I read called "The Age of Sacred Terror." I am not sure of page numbers, tho. Of course, the Repubs think Clarke is liberal and therefore distrust everything he says. That's the problem with citing references.

[meegbear]

4. Clinton didn't tried to warn Bush ...

Clinton and his staff DID warn Bush and his staff about Osama. They didn't care.

[CTyankee]

8. OK. I'll add "and his staff." Thanks. n/t

[ET Awful]

5. Hell, I'd be tempted to go back even further and start with Reagan's

reaction to the bombing of the marine barracks in Beirut, which is to say he moved all the troops out of the area and never made any other response.

Also, the Clinton administration had a complete plan for responding to the Cole bombing, including an air campaign against Afghanistan which would serve as support for ground forces to remove the Taliban from power and capture or eliminate bin Laden . . . . the plan was shelved by the Bush administration, then implemented as an original idea following 9/11. The plan was ready to go in December of 2000, but unlike Poppy Bush, Clinton decided not to saddle his successor with a controversial military campaign barely beginning (such as Poppy did with Mogadishu).

[rfranklin]

7. Clinton has not been in office for five years...

Bush is the one responsible and has not been able to capture Osama bin Laden. Instead, he has invaded Iraq and helped to establish another Islamic theocracy sympathetic to Iran.

[CTyankee]

10. Yep

and Clinton is 1:0 in finding and successfully prosecuting terrorists. Good point.

[Cassandra]

9. Clinton only had proof about who bombed the Cole...

in December 2000. He didn't want to start bombing as a lame duck so he turned all the information over to Bush so he could handle it (more consideration than Bush 1 gave on Somalia). Of course, Bush did absolutely nothing about it. Emphasize that Clinton couldn't do anything earlier because we wanted to punish the actual perps, not just bomb random Muslims as Bush likes to do.

[CTyankee]

13. Where can I find the reference to that? n/t

[Cassandra]

18. I know I read it somewhere but I don't remember where.

It might have been in the NYTimes, or try New York Magazine http://www.newyorkmetro.com/ . They had an article about John O'Neil and their search engine is pretty good. Sorry my time this morning is limited. Maybe Google Cole and Clinton and see what's there.

[CTyankee]

19. Thanks. I have started Googling

I appreciate your help!

[EFerrari]

28. That article was in The New Yorker and it is on line.

:)

[Cassandra]

30. Thanks.

I think that's probably where it was; although the information might have been in a few places.

[drbtg1]

17. The Cole was bombed on October 12, 2000, not December

n/t

[Cassandra]

21. Yes but the FBI or CIA came to a conclusion about who did it...

in December.

[drbtg1]

32. I see what you were trying to write in that first sentence

I read it differently. Sorry about that.

Did the FBI or CIA really have proof in December? I know Yemen was naming suspects in November and December (I don't know about the level of cooperation between the US and Yemen and if Yemen was just taking token action to get the heat off), but the House Armed Services Committee released their report in May 2001. Makes me wonder about the intelligence timeline.

[Cassandra]

34. Apparently December was when...

they had enough intelligence to actually bomb or chase suspects in the right country. I don't know how much more detail they had.

[drbtg1]

11. When did the report on who bombed the Cole come out?

Did the report come out, not during Mr. Clinton's, but rather during the Halliburton Administration?

[BOSSHOG]

12. And for a little side dish

I've recently discovered that this little factoid pisses the fuck out of the pseudo-patriots:

When Bill Clinton entered office in 93 Iraq had WMD, when he left in 2001 they did not. Pisses em off royally

- Operations Southern and Northern Watch in cooperation with Britain, France, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait maintaining the N0-Fly Zone over Iraq and allowing inspectors to do their job. Clinton did this while getting head from an intern and fending off a 100 million dollar smear campaign by impotent fascists wrapped in the American Flag. Go ahead, make his day. Pass on the warmest regards of a combat zone veteran who knows bush deserted to avoid a drug test. Kick some republican ass to end the week.

[CTyankee]

14. Ooh, this is looking good!

God, these Republicans are stupid AND crazy. Bad combination.

[Arkansas Granny]

25. Good point about the WMD. They don't like to be reminded of

the failure to find the basic reason Bush gave for invading Iraq. I have also never heard any explanation from anyone on the right as to why Bush would not allow the U.N. weapons inspectors to complete their job before he attacked Iraq. My thoughts are that he knew they weren't there and didn't want that information revealed since it would have taken a lot out fear out of his arguments. He made a show out of searching for them after the fact, but by that time it didn't matter. Bush had already gotten what he wanted.

[Lasher]

15. Here is a useful tidbit from Snopes

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.htm

I haven't even seen the repuke's specific lies, but I'll bet they're contained in the document I just supplied. These people are pretty stupid, kind of like 'monkey see, monkey do' on the internet.

[progdonkey]

16. a little bit of (hopefully helpful) advice..

I think what you have already with Khobar and Cole is fine. You could even feign defeat by saying, "Okay, for the moment I'll say you're right and Clinton screwed up on Khobar and Cole happened on his watch... but the investigation into Cole took place under Bush, and then the largest al-Qaeda attack occurred as well under Bush. 9/11 was all Bush's. So, even if you were right that Clinton should be blamed for Khobar and Cole, Clinton at least successfully responded to the first WTC attacks making him 1 for 3, whereas Bush is 0 for 2 (and that's being extremely nice to Bush, as his "2" includes attacks incredibly larger than Clinton's "3"). Fine, both failed to prevent any of those attacks, but it can't be denied that the only successful prosecution occurred under Clinton."

I know you already pretty much covered what I wrote as far as " similar accomplishments from Bush," but the little bit of feigning capitulation might look good to general readers, who are your real audience here.

(Of course, you can just go the other route and tear him a new one, but where's the sport in that? ;-) )

[randr]

20. Anthrax in the Senate anyone?

[zbdent]

22. Point out that the USS Cole bombing was suspected to be

Osama bin Laden's doing well before Bush took office. When he took office, the biggest thing on the Repuke radar screen was "porn bombs" in some of the copiers, and missing "W" keys on keyboards (all undocumented . . .).

Then they were worried about whether or not someone influenced Bill Clinton with a thousand bucks or two to get a pardon for an insider trader . . .

Then, the Repuke security focus was on how they could tie the disappearance (and suspected death) of a (non-blonde!) woman in Washington DC to a Democratic senator . . . (whose body was found more than a year later in an area which was "searched thoroughly" early on)

And all through that security web was a report from a field agent who actually had details on suspected terrorists (who turned out later to be hijackers on 9/11) as to where they were, what they were doing (taking commercial jetliner flight lessons without takeoff and landing instruction), and how much cash they were putting into the "Florida economy" . . .

[gratuitous]

23. Good luck with your response

It looks like folks have already hit most of the salient points. Part of me wonders, however, what useful purpose edumacating your correspondent will accomplish. But please don't let my momentary pessimism put you off.

You might also point out that the major project for John Ashcroft's Justice Department during the first three years of the Bush administration was a prostitution sting in New Orleans. Some people thought he might find something a little more pertinent to investigate, but you can always tell a Republican, because you can't tell him anything.

[DS1]

24. Wow. Missile Defense. I'd forgotten about that fiasco

:eyes:

[MrBenchley]

26. You might also mention

that when Clinton was warned Bin Laden might strike around the time of the Millenium celebrations, he warned the entire country and put law enforcement on high alert...and nabbed a Bin Laden associate bringing explosives into the country.

When Chimpy was warned Bin Laden might strike in 2001, he remained on vacation, covered up the warning he had received, helped Bin Laden family members flee the country after the attacks, and lied to the country afterwards.

[Lasher]

31. It wasn't just one Millineum plot that Clinton stopped

There was a plot against the Holland tunnel and the Los Angeles airport, and others as well.

[MrBenchley]

33. Mention them all....

The one I'm most familiar with is the guy in Washington state.....

You might recall that Clinton took to the airwaves to warn all Americans to be vigilant.

[Lasher]

37. I think the guy who was stopped at the border with explosives...

was on his way to blow up the LA Airport. I think that's the same plot to which you referred. In addition to the Holland tunnel, there was a scheme to blow up planes on there way to the Philippines.

Edit: I could Google to find more, but I think we have sufficiently loaded CTyankee up with the ammo he needs.

[MrBenchley]

38. I believe you're correct....

[Lasher]

27. OK, it took me a while to find these quotes but here they are

WHY DID THEY HATE AMERICA?

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."
-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)

"You can support the troops but not the president"
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"This is President Clinton's war, and when he falls flat on his face, that's his problem."
-Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN)

Much more at http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/6/18/161016/461

[Nickster]

29. Don't forget that our good friends in the House of Saud executed the

suspects from the Khobar Tower incident before we had a chance to get a chance to investigate or interrogate them. Wonder why that was.....hmmmmmmm. I believe a good description of that scenario was in Richard Clarke's book.

[chemenger]

35. Tell him to look up Presidential Decision Directive 39 (PDD-39)

"In 1995, President Clinton signed Presidential Decision Directive 39 (PDD-39), the United States Policy on Counterterrorism. This PDD built upon previous directives for combating terrorism and further elaborated a strategy and an interagency coordination mechanism and management structure (sounds a lot like the present Department of Homeland Security, doesn't it?) to be undertaken by the Federal government to combat both domestic and international terrorism in all its forms. This authority includes implementing measures to reduce our vulnerabilities, deterring terrorism through a clear public position, responding rapidly and effectively to threats or to actual terrorist acts, and giving the highest priority to developing sufficient capabilities to combat and manage the consequences of terrorist incidents involving WMDs."

Just one more example of how the Repukes and the MSM will not give one iota of credit to President Clinton. The man was on top of this issue years six years before 9/11. The * administration clearly stated upon taking office in 2001 that the Middle East was not high on their list of priorities.

[July]

36. I use your first point frequently.

Clinton administration:

WTC I attack (occurring a few weeks after Clinton's inauguration) -- perpetrators caught, tried, convicted, jailed.

Oklahoma City attack (domestic terrorism) -- perpetrators caught, tried, convicted, jailed (Nichols), executed (McVeigh).

These successes occurred without Clinton's having the benefit of the Patriot Act, illegal domestic spying, "enemy combatant" designations, torture, secret prisons, suspension of habeas corpus, etc.

Bush administration:

WTII attack, which occurred 8 months after Bush was inaugurated (hey, Clinton kept us safe for 8 years, by the way! -- gotta use their rhetoric against them, right?) -- main perp still free (the rest of us, less each day), Taliban resurgent in Afghanistan.

Anthrax attack (domestic terrorism) -- perp(s?) still free and apparently forgotten.

Clinton administration also thwarted several attacks and left office giving the Bush administration warnings about OBL and terrorism, as well as the Hart-Rudman report (shelved by Bush until after 9/11). Bush appointed Cheney to head a terrorism task force in May, but the task force DID NOT MEET until after 9/11/01. Ashcroft did not have terrorism on his list of high priorities, Condi had plans to speak about missile defense on 9/11 or 9/12 (can't remember which). Powell -- beats me, but you get the picture. And let's not forget that Bush and Cheney vigorously opposed the 9/11 commission.

In the head-to-head, I think we've got a winner, and it isn't Candy W. Ass.