"to petition the government for a redress of grievances"

[toymachines]

This is from the first amendment in our Bill of Rights. What right does that give us? Is that the right to call our representatives? Just curious.

[serryjw]

1. That is what gives us right to march on DC

without getting arrested.

[toymachines]

2. excellent

A right to protest, thanks man... errr I knew that :think:

[serryjw]

6. I wish we had national petitions

I work on many on the state and local level. You think there is graft on the national level, try local. The damn local city councils do what they want even after their constituents say not to. Every one is on the take.

[enough]

3. A very interesting question, toymachines.

We may all have to become experts in this.

[Poppyseedman]

4. It's called "Lobbying"

It gives us a right to pay people to petition our representatives since they shield themselves from their constitutes

You know the people who put them in office. :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[Selatius]

5. It's a shame it doesn't mean setting a referendum to recall Bush or

setting a petition to challenge the Patriot Act or modify certain passages of the Act provided enough verified signatures are had. That's one thing I like about Switzerland's semi-direct democracy. The people can remove people from power or challenge legislative action directly or even pass laws directly provided they can gain enough signatures to make it happen.

[toymachines]

7. why isn't it read in that way?

It seems like a position that could be argued. But of course that would be reading into the constitution... nothing like the justice dept's latest 41 page defense of NSA spying, which is 80% reading into the const.

[Selatius]

9. The Founders argued for a somewhat less democratic model, that's why

They, with some amount of justification, felt that establishing a government with too much democracy in the equation was simply a recipe for majoritarian mob rule.

Back then, rates of illiteracy were extremely high, and the problem of an ignorant population is one that could not possibly be tackled. Today, with the blessing of a public education system, illiteracy has been almost entirely eliminated in the US. People can read, and if they can read, then they can learn, and if they can learn, then they can reach a point where they are able to make an informed decision given all available information.

I would argue for a bit more democracy than what we have today. I would love to see a form of government where the House is built on proportional representation, while we'd still keep the Senate as a check on the economic clout of larger states. This would make it possible to have a multi-party representative democracy in the US, not the two-party system we have today, and I'm not happy with the current system.

If citizens were empowered to pass laws by petition, recall legislators and even presidents by petition, and challenge legislative action as the people deem necessary through petition, then you have found the perfect balance between direct democracy and representative democracy, at least in my opinion. Such a form of government is not possible without an educated populace. It may not have been possible then, but I believe it's possible today.

It's time for change, and if I had my way, there would be.

[toymachines]

11. I think we all feel a need for change

The shitstem is not functioning correctly.

[loudsue]

8. "or even pass laws directly" .... NOW THAT is a GREAT idea!!

Just think what a GREAT medicare law WE, THE PEOPLE could have come up with!!!

Let's get an amendment to the Constitution that says we can do this!!!

:kick::kick::kick:

[Selatius]

10. I'm sure if you asked all of America, most would support a...

universal health care system for all, men, women, and children, but as it stands, people do not have that power. Only government does, but it's supposed to represent the people. The problem is--I would argue--it's not representative enough of the people. It often does things despite the interests of the people, and I think it's time to shorten the leash and rein in the government.

For too long it has served the interests of the powerful and what they want. What about us? What about the workers? What about the things we also deserve? What about the things the government owes us? If people were able to challenge laws passed by Congress they disagree vehemently with, if they were able to recall offensive legislators, and if they were able to pass laws in place of the legislature through petition if the legislature proves delinquent on an issue, then we should be more able to force the government to listen to the people.