THe US was NOT founded on Christian Principles

[McKenzie]

I posted this link a while back but some DU'ers might not have seen it. The article dicusses, amongst other, related matters, a little-known document known as "The Treaty of Tripoli"; the title is a bit longer than that - "The Treaty of Tripoli" is used as shorthand.

Whilst it no longer has legal status, according to my reading of the article, it is clear that the Founding Fathers did NOT envisage America as a Christian nation. So if any Freepers bang on about "America's Christian heritage" send them this excerpt and the link:

<snip>

"Unlike governments of the past, the American Fathers set up a government divorced from religion. The establishment of a secular government did not require a reflection to themselves about its origin; they knew this as an unspoken given. However, as the U.S. delved into international affairs, few foreign nations knew about the intentions of America. For this reason, an insight from at a little known but legal document written in the late 1700s explicitly reveals the secular nature of the United States to a foreign nation. Officially called the "Treaty of peace and friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli, of Barbary," most refer to it as simply the Treaty of Tripoli. In Article 11, it states:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

The preliminary treaty began with a signing on 4 November, 1796 (the end of George Washington's last term as president). Joel Barlow, the American diplomat served as counsel to Algiers and held responsibility for the treaty negotiations. Barlow had once served under Washington as a chaplain in the revolutionary army. He became good friends with Paine, Jefferson, and read Enlightenment literature. Later he abandoned Christian orthodoxy for rationalism and became an advocate of secular government. Barlow, along with his associate, Captain Richard O'Brien, et al, translated and modified the Arabic version of the treaty into English. From this came the added Amendment 11. Barlow forwarded the treaty to U.S. legislators for approval in 1797. Timothy Pickering, the secretary of state, endorsed it and John Adams concurred (now during his presidency), sending the document on to the Senate. The Senate approved the treaty on June 7, 1797, and officially ratified by the Senate with John Adams signature on 10 June, 1797. All during this multi-review process, the wording of Article 11 never raised the slightest concern. The treaty even became public through its publication in The Philadelphia Gazette on 17 June 1797.

So here we have a clear admission by the United States that our government did not found itself upon Christianity. Unlike the Declaration of Independence, this treaty represented U.S. law as all treaties do according to the Constitution (see Article VI, Sect. 2).

</snip>

http://earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html

EDIT: paragraph spacing

[leftstreet]

1. This is an awesome link

Looks like some great reading there.

Thanks for posting it.

[az chela]

2. Most of the founding fathers and early presidents

Were rosicrusians and freeemasons.Not christian altho very ethical and spiritual people

[XemaSab]

6. Deists too...

Deists believe that God is found in nature and that revealed truth such as the Bible is hokum.

[applegrove]

3. Not to mention that the founding religions included polytheism.

[Erika]

4. The founding fathers believed in slavery and women's inequality

I'm not too impressed with the "founding fathers"

[leftstreet]

7. Did they "believe" in it, or did the times they lived in...

...prevent them from questioning it.

Not to give them an out. It's just that we ourselves are at risk of being noted in future history books as people who failed to question certain things. Things that will no doubt be taken for granted by then.

[EST]

9. Good point.

Also the "All men created equal" bit reflected their times--after all, "evolution" hadn't even been invented/discovered yet!

[melody]

11. These are men who held their ground before soldiers coming to hang them

Two of the men in particular held to their anti-slavery positions against stiff opposition among a few in Congress.

These were not people helmed in by convention or frightened away by repercussions.

[leftstreet]

13. Point. n/t

[melody]

10. NOT true

As a matter of fact, two of the primary founding fathers -- John Adams and Benjamin Franklin -- were very early abolitionists and did NOT own slaves. Adams in particular fought to the very end to make abolition a part of the Declaration of Independence. If we'd listened to Adams, we'd never have fought the Civil War (or had to). Some historians now believe Franklin was himself an escaped Scots-Irish slave.

Adams was a great believer in the equality of women and considered his wife Abigail his "closest friend and wisest advisor".

The founding fathers were a diverse group of men, many of whom were far ahead of the curve in social and societal beliefs and institutions.

[EST]

5. Freepers do not respond to reasoned, logical argument.

It is impossible to logically dissuade someone from a point of view they have arrived at emotionally.
Things have to go totally to shit. Like alcoholics, until their lives become totally crapsville, they will not be motivated to reconsider.
If one finds someone who can be reasoned with, it usually turns out that they were already becoming aware of the holes in their outlook and were ready for a change. The trick is to love 'em enough to still be available when they are ready.

[leftstreet]

8. No truer words. n/t

[rpannier]

12. But Adams became a Unitarian

and Pat Robertson has already told us they are the Spirit of the Anti-Christ.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

14. jefferson attended a UU type service a few times too rpanner

When I go, I go to UU as a Christian, where I've made some nice Pagan pals, a smart Secularist friend and oh yeah, the nice Lakota lady who respects her Ancestors.

As to the main post: No it's not on Christian Principles... the type of Divine references Jefferson uses resemble Neo-Platonic thinkers of the Renaissance.

[melody]

15. The church at which Adams was a member is still VERY liberal

They have always been liberal. Our forefathers were radicals, to a one. None could even remotely be described as "fundamentalist".

[donkeyotay]

16. The religious right lost the battle to found the US as a theocracy

They've never gotten over it because wanna-be tyrants like Pat Robertson are always looking for a way to gain power. There's an excellent book called "The Godless Constitution" that details the fight. Tons of good stuff, but here's one little quote of Thomas Jefferson's from it:

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket."