What will history say about Clinton impeachment?

[WhereThereIsFire]

This has been a huge topic of discussion among friends in recent days and, though holidays have kept me away from most of the political talk shows, apparently the media is discussing it too. There may alread by a thread on here somewhere about it, but I've not found it. And the "key" issue is apparently "what do we tell the children?" My suggestion was/is this:

"The opposition party hounded this good man for the entire 8 years of his presidency and, finding him not guilty of any crime, they manipulated an immature but adult woman into leading him into a sexually compromised position.

That sexual liason was no crime on his part.

But, when he told a small lie about his personal sexual indescretion with this woman, to protect his family from pain, that tiny lie became the ONLY thing they were able to accuse him of after spending billions of taxpayer dollars. Still, to further injure his presidency the attackers chose to pursue the lie as an impeachable offense, and effectively did so since they held a majority in Congress.

Those vicious attacks on this man were a costly, vile and ineffective way to use taxpayer money and all Americans have suffered from the Republican's attack."

Nothing in that tells the "children" more than they need to know ... but does paint the correct picture of what happened. Of course, the repugs, while alive, won't let THAT be the version...after they are dead, assuming the world lasts that long, the explanation is likely to be more like that statement

[ixion]

1. IMO, it will be a footnote

I doubt it will affect his presidency historically, since the follow up act is such a catastrophic failure on so many levels.

[sasha031]

2. I would hope this nation as others have centuries ago

evolve, and find the topic absolutely boring, to have an affair in the history books doesn't say much for Amerika.

[RufusEarl]

4. It all depends on who writes the history books.

[MessiahRp]

3. History will be clear...

He was victimized by petty partisan politics and a politically appointed independent counsel who authorized the abuse of public funds (to the tune of $110 million) and they accomplished nothing.

Bill Clinton maintained his popularity and support and remained beloved after his term as President ended and in 2006 the same smear machine that empowered the impeachment and many other Republican scandals came crashing down under a series of indictments and the permanent swing of a distrustful public voting them out in the midterm elections.

Rp

[Nimrod2005]

5. History will say that Americans and their political leaders were indeed

the dumbest fucken' people on earth...Later to be confirmed by voting for Bush in 2004.

Then later confirmed by mortgaging the country and its future to Communist China!!!

[NanceGreggs]

6. I agree with Poster No. 1 ...

... in the grand view of hindsight, especially when compared to the following eight years, it will be a footnote - or less.

I picture a bunch of young adults playing Trivial Pursuit, the 2035 edition. The question will be: "What 20th Century American president was impeached due to a sex scandal?"

There will be blank faces around the table, and when the answer is read out, everyone will look amazed and say, "Where do they come up with these totally obscure facts?"

[CanuckAmok]

7. It takes two to tango...

"...they manipulated an immature but adult woman into leading him into a sexually compromised position..."

I agree that it shouldn't have been an impeachable offense, but absolving him of blame isn't really fair, either. He knew what he was doing, and he knew the potential consequences. You cannot possibly believe the repubs sent a Salome with irresistable powers into the Oval Office. She was invited, and not by them.

That said, I agree with you 100% that the incident was blown out of proportion by the repubs and the MSM (an arm of the RW), and that it was a shameful, criminal waste of taxpayer dollars to slander a good man.

[WhereThereIsFire]

32. Actually, her testimony in court was ...

that in the first encounter she crawled under the desk and "got to work" while he was on an important phone call. ALSO, her parents gave huge donations to Clinton's campaigns ... so you could say SHE had the power position in MANY ways! He may have been a bit confused about how to react ... and apparently it was sudden and unexpected. AND I'm sure the repugs didn't overlook the fact that Monica was something of a "deadringer" for Bill's mom and he adored his mom, she'd recently died, so ... there were a few angles to look at in how this was set up and how he was more vulnerable than many would believe a "president" could be. They definately did a number on Bill with that slightly ditzy woman.

[FightingIrish]

8. From the perspective of history it will be seen in the context

of what followed his presidency. The connection between the extremists who tried to remove him from office and those who put a chimp on the throne will be indisputable. Hopefully we can put a cap on this madness and let history remember a restoration of our democarcy after some pretty dark years.

[mwb970]

21. This is the part that gets me.

First the right-wing extremists tried to force a successful president from office, spending millions of dollars and holding dozens of hearings in the process. They failed. Then, the same extremists forced their candidate into office by manipulating an election and having the Supreme Court unconstitutionally appoint the "president" on a party-line vote. He turned out to be a total failure, very possibly the worst president in our history.

I can't wait for their next move! You can't make stuff like this up.

[wtmusic]

9. The what?

Oh yeah, that.

z-z-z-z.

[rsdsharp]

10. Two points

The impeachment controversy really grew out of Clinton's relationship with Monica Lewinsky. While Paula Jones was a tool of the far right, and he was deposed in her case about Lewinsky, I don't believe there is any evidence that Monica was manuevered into her relationship with the President.

Second, millions, not billions of taxpayer dollars were spent on the investigation. About seventy million if memory serves -- a far cry from even one billion.

Having said that, I believe it will probably be treated in the same way as the Johnson impeachment: Radical Republicans attempting to railroad a political enemy out of office on inflated, if not totally bogus, charges.

[WhereThereIsFire]

34. Yes, The thread ONLY refers to Lewinsky ...

Nothing in my original paragraphs were meant to refer to anything OTHER than Lewinsky ... "an immature, but adult woman"

[robbedvoter]

11. Find out in "printed in Texas" 2006 history books - it's there!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051228/ap_on_go_pr_wh/clinton_textbooks
Clinton Impeachment Included in Textbooks

By BEN FELLER, AP Education Writer
Tue Dec 27, 9:49 PM ET




WASHINGTON - The impeachment of former President Clinton is in a gray area of history, too long ago to be a current event, too recent to be judged in perspective.



Yet history is already judging Clinton in the place where millions of students get their information about him — textbooks.

Seven years after he was impeached in a scandal of sex, perjury and bitter politics, Clinton has become a fixture in major high school texts."

Still waiting for Iran Contra to qualify.

[Jon8503]

12. Basically what they have said now in the history books. Not much

of anything on the impeachment as his accomplishments way overshadow what the congress attempted to do to him. The impeachment will probably be no more than a footnote on Clinton history. Also, Georgie boy may trumph him big time in the impeachment category if he is not careful.

I think also that history will be very kind to President Clinton and he will be at the top and definitly would be at the top of presidents if the right wingers had not constantly been obsessed with him instead of trying to get the things done our country needed.

Can you imagine what Clinton would have accomplished if the idiots had not been doing their thing to hurt the country.

[Smarmie Doofus]

13. Depends on who writes it, but...

I ( forever the optimist; do we have a choice?) would wager that it will be seen as one more battle in the resurgent right's 50-year effort to consolidate control over all aspects of the federal gov't.

The charges themselves should be seen as BLATANTLY political. I think the larger history will reflect the fact that the wealthy sectors of the society ( the "ruling class", in another era) set about in the 50's with the long range plan of undoing the modest, but to them disturbing, baby steps toward socialism ( the New Deal).

The heart of RW ideology since then has been about dismantling social welfare programs. The media and the electoral process have been the tools used in this effort. And since the wealthy own them both, they've been largely successful.

Clinton had to be brought down 'cause he was slowing down the achievement of these RW goals by adopting some of their platform while dragging his feet on others.

[Beware the Beast Man]

14. Nothing says well-written history like a heaping dollop of bias.

[Surya Gayatri]

15. IMHO, this appalling episode will be seen

as perhaps the most partisan trivialization of the process of government in the history of the nation. Constitutional scholars will be analyzing the ramifications for decades, especially in comparison with the egregious horrors of the Age of Bush. How many of the nation's priorities were ignored and how much of its energy wasted in the pursuit of blatant partisan advantage? SG

[haele]

16. Probably similar to what history says about Johnson or Jackson's wife

Andrew Johnson was unfortunately cast in history as Lincoln's Successor and somehow unqualified for office probably because he was constantly losing out to his congress and his cabinet. Which is odd, as Reconstruction was going on at the time. His almost-impeachment was important because it showed how little power he had over the government. Clinton was not a weak president as Johnson was; the impeachment may have impacted some of Clinton's actions policy, but it did not direct any policy.

As Jackson's wife Rachel - That was a huge political issue at the time; she divorced her abusive first husband and married Andrew Jackson very soon after the divorce - the rumors were that she hadn't been divorced before she ran away and took up with Jackson (meaning publicly, she would be an adulteress whether or not bed sharing was actually involved - back then, a gentleman could offer "protection" to a lady in trouble and it not be considered sex.) and/or that the marriage to Jackson either never really happened or they had gotten married before the original divorce was final. She died during the period of gossip and inquiry, so nothing ever really went forward from that point against Jackson other than the constant gossip.

Back then, that was close to being grounds for impeachment; being an active party to adultery or bigamy was at least a high misdemeanor. Marrying a divorcee was almost just as bad in most social and political circles.

If she had survived, most historians and political speculators I've read or heard as showing an interest in the subject are pretty sure there would have been an impeachment. Jackson was a populist president, his Congress was as contentious against him as the "Contract on America" group was against Clinton. As it is, the scandal of his wife is just a footnote of his presidency between the "Kitchen Cabinet, the Indian (non-)Treaty actions and the formation of the US Treasury and stabilization of the US banking system.

The effect of this scandal affected Jackson's presidency much the same as the effect of Clinton's impeachment. Any real effect was felt after the presidency, as those backing the candidates that followed would insure that there was no salacious background that could be used to create public moral outrage in an otherwise qualified candidate. Which of course lead to a decade or so of rather weak presidents and strong party control as candidates were "vetted" by both the party and in the press before they could run.

So IMO, Clinton's impeachment will be handled much the same; just a blurb between his actual accomplishments. Perhaps a comment that his impeachment may have affected public cynicism; in a way, the stupid and expensive manner in which it was prosecuted actually made it harder to justify any further check on the presidential powers in cases that could be impeached because of the wasteful way Clinton was hounded.
In other words, because of the disgust for the process that Clinton's impeachment caused, the public would be less likely to demand the same process in subsequent cases where there might actually be a high crime bordering on Treason involved, or an actual threat to the Constitution and American Democracy.

That will probably be the legacy of Clinton's impeachment.

Haele

[rsdsharp]

18. Johnson's "almost-impeachment?"

Johnson was impeached. He was acquited by one vote, but there was nothing "almost" about the impeachment.

[WhereThereIsFire]

35. To me one of the larger sex scandals was

the unelected VP ... Rockefeller (sp) ... who was divorced when asked to step into that office ... and later, when out of office, died in bed with his mistress ... quite a public scandal and a horror for his wife "Happy" (how ironic is that name?) whom he'd divorced a prior wife to marry. The repugs ALWAYS have "no family values" but seem able to run for election using that theme and all the RWnuts just line up and say Hallelujah, brother!

[DeepModem Mom]

17. I think it will be seen as part of the power grab by the Right --

begun with Goldwater's advocates, and building, zealous and well-financed, through the years until the Right now has dangerous and unprecedented power in every part of our national life, including all three branches of our government and the free press that is supposed to act as a fourth branch. (I think there are some recent, hopeful signs that the wheel may be turning slightly, for various reasons, and that this dark era in our country's history may, at some point, end -- if it's not too late, and the damage done is not irreperable.)

[leftofthedial]

19. it will be extremely minor

and noted for the politically motivated (pre-treasonous) crock of shit that it was

[Sparkly]

20. WTF??

No, really. That's what people in the future will say. :wtf:

[gulliver]

22. Thanks to Bushism, people will have too many problems in the ...

... future to worry about history. I keep going back to the movie Brazil.

[FVZA_Colonel]

23. Ultimately, it'll be the sort of thing high-school students decide to skip

studying in favor of more important issues from the 1990's when it comes to their history test on that period.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. No, high school students won't skip it, they'll read all about it.

Because blowjobs were involved.

[Yupster]

28. Agree Ocelot

I expect history textx will say little about the impeachment. Maybe one sentence like...

"Presidend Clinton was impeached, but not removed from office when it was discovered that he had been carrying on an affair with a young White House intern."

That's all I'd expect. I think the students will titter and giggle about the cigar parts generations from now.

[WhereThereIsFire]

36. Ocelot makes a good point ...

even in grade school we used to run to the big dictionary in the library and look up "bad" words --- checking and see which were in there. Even the "hint" of something sexual makes kids want to learn more about it ... but not necessarily from a text book, parent, or teacher's comments. That could be a "good thing" ... or not. In fact, the repugs may have GUARANTEED that more kids will WANT to learn about the Clinton presidency and in doing so, they may learn what a great president he was despite the hate campaign he endured.

After all ... had it been possible for him to run for that THIRD term and then a FOURTH ... he would STILL BE our president! I'm totally convinced of it. And as Madeline Albright has said, 9/11 would never have happened with Gore (or Clinton or Kerry) in office. The world would really be in a different place. Probably even the massive suffering and death in New Orleans would have been dealt with quicker and competently.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

24. A harbinger of evil yet to come, but much of it already under way. n/t

[phylla]

25. A partisan witch hunt

and a reflection of the corruption and collusion in the Republican Congress.

[WhereThereIsFire]

37. You are exactly right ...

someone, writing a text book, should dare to compare it to the Salem Witch hunts ... the impeachment had all the right benchmarks to put it squarely in that category.

I'm still unhappy Bill chose a REPUG surgeon!! Couldn't he have found a Democratic heart surgeon ... even if he had to have it done in Florida???

[Skittles]

45. when history reseaches how an incompetent like GWB became prez

all that witchhunting will have meaning

[Catherine Vincent]

27. That was the partisan hypocrite's goal.

Clinton's bogus impeachment to make it in the history books. Hopefully history teachers will properly explain the evil partisanship that went on for that and how Clinton's approval ratings were sky high.

I'm waiting for GWBush's illegitimate presidency to make it in the history books.

[WhereThereIsFire]

38. Yeah, the real challenge will be how to explain THAT ... to youngsters!

[Rodger Dodger]

29. Bill Clinton's story is told at his Library in Little Rock Ark.

I've been to hope. I've photo's of his grandparents home when it was in extremely poor shape. Visited his home and the Hope Train Station; and his Library all are worth the trip.
It's very interesting, the state that turned their backs on him now is profiting enormously from his tenure in office.
The most interesting of all, is the Library. There is a replica of the Oval Office, in it. No stains on the rug, no purple dress.
It does however reflect...that it is...what it actully is: simply an office. Not a shrine, not a holy sanctuary! Simply an office with a desk, chairs a couple of couches, shaped in the shap of an oval; with a door with not doorknob. I've been in the one in Washing DC during Jimmy Carter's tenure a few times.

Pendents want to project the place a sacrad site. That he violated sacred ground. Hell it an office; his office to do what he damn well pleased as long as it didn't harm the country, during his presidency.

There is also a replica of it and the Cabinet Office also. With tv monitors where you can sit in a chair and observe what the duties of that person who was sitting that chair's duties were and what he had accomplished.

On either side of the hall, there are displays representing the eight year of his administrations accomplishments. Four years on each side. The displays indicate where a particular area was when he entere office, of a particular area in the government be it unemployment, deficit etc.: and how it was improved while he was in office. In every case during his the eight year tenure, the Clinton's record stands out above all others;include, but not limited to, Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, Hamilton, Adams in short the lot of them.

No one had a better record of accomplishments than Bill and Hillary Clinton; no one. And to his credit he's the only President who has not had his papers sealed for the twenty-five years period as most others did.

He's man enough to let the public be judge his record. Not the pendants with their bias and predigests. It's all history now: and a damn good one. The public can go look and see, his ccomplishment; it's all there in black and white, sound, supported by official documents, for them to see, read and view the truth them judge for themselves.

It's all history now and frankly I don't believe he or Hillary give a damn what others think. The truth wont be denied: he raised this country out of the dull-drums to its highest level in my 73 year life time.

And like him or not he will be around for quite a while. So his dissenters might as well suck-it-up and live with it.

[WhereThereIsFire]

40. I'd like to make that visit also ...

and almost every Presidential Library does contain a replica of the office they had. I can only wonder ... don't know where "GHWB's" library is ... but all women who visited that office talked about the fact that he kept a Polynesian carving of a gigantic phallus in the presidential office bathroom and much enjoyed inviting women to use that bathroom. Somehow, I'd guess they purged that from boooshie family legacy!!

[Hippo_Tron]

30. It will mark the high point of the era of partisan politics

An era where politicians do everything in their power to destroy their opponents. Not because of a disagreement on policy. They do it because they can.

[tomg]

31. Considering what happened as a result,

I think history will say Clinton got blown and America got screwed.

[WhereThereIsFire]

41. Love it (the comment, not the fact it is sadly true!)

[ClassWarrior]

33. An attempted Right Wing Coup against the American people.

NGU.

[NativeTexan]

39. Although there will always be a footnote....

in the history books, years from now....I believe that the Bush Administration of Idiocy will really HELP President Clinton's legacy. I believe that history will show the stark difference between lying, under oath or not, about a personal sexual encounter, and lying about going to war.

I really DO believe that the differences between accomplishments will be a huge standout feature. And history will even be able to look at Bush Administration "bookends" on each side of the Clinton Presidency and the raw data of accomplishments will literally speak for itself.

Bill Clinton was, as a man, no better or worse than anyone else that has served in that capacity. As a president, he is since John Kennedy, without peers. As a politician? My GRANDKIDS will never see one like him in THEIR lifetimes!!!

[WhereThereIsFire]

42. NativeTexan ... love those good Texan Democrats ...

... and can't wait to see some new legislation passed to expand the congressional districts NATIONWIDE ... to reflect the fact that beautiful Texas is not all Republican ... it's just been gerrymandered to pieces!

[AntiFascist]

43. This is what you get....

when you cross neoconservatives.

[Lady President]

44. Important, but not to Clinton's legacy

IMO, the impeachment will be an important mark in history because of the backlash. I think historians will consider it a turning point event. This is when the Republicans "found God" and could successfully begin to frame all issues around their narrow moral beliefs.

Two things will happen from this point:
1. Dems. will regain control and this will be considered a shadow that briefly fell on our country. A Nixon style miscue that we overcame.

2. We will continue to lose power. The impeachment will be the event that lead to women being forced to bear children, a complete Big Brother society, mandatory prayers to a white Christian Jesus, etc.