Ted Kennedy has been villified forever by the right wingers

[Erika]

I get sick of Ted Kennedy being put down for one act decades ago.

He's lost Joe, Jack, and Bobby in their service of the country. He's taken on the role of patriarch.

The right wingers sicken me when they try to crucify this man.

Both W and Cheney were found guilty of DUI's.

[pretzel4gore]

1. they never forgive- not that ted needs it...

mary jo kopeckne has beeen part of every moment of ted kennedy's life since '69...when nephew david was destroying himself, ted was preoccupied by them righteous hypocrites harassing him, and david basically was left to his own...he died in 1984, of drug od....when the shriver boy was acting out, or young smith(?) again the kennedys were reeling from all the heartbreak, in shock, ...they had little left for the kids. i blame georgebushamerica, shamerica for sure

[Sal Minella]

2. But we don't hear much about the kid Laura Bush killed, do we.

[ShockediSay]

3. Beware the paid character assassins within the vilifying

right wingers. Big connect b/n big bucks "think tanks" and those that tank anyone who gets in their way; they do it for pay.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=abramoff+article+%22think+tank%22&btnG=Search+News

[Chipper Chat]

4. The bottom line is........

Liberal/democrat/ilk tend to have a heart and forgive a person for a transgression. Conversely, with conservative/republican/fundie types - it's one strike and you're out. Cruel!
How many times have "we" forgiven Trent Lott, Strom Thurmond, and even Bush-boy! And yet the other side will never forgive Ted, Durbin, and even the Clenis.

[Nuff]

5. Thank you!

"Both W and Cheney were found guilty of DUI's."


I've been trying to tell my rightwinger sister that they had DUI's, but she always pooh-poohs the idea. Can you post the links you have to these stories, so I can prove to her, once and for all, that it's not just some mindless daydream of mine?

[Saint Stephen]

7. That's nothing

Laura Bush killed someone.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/laura.asp


But when the right-wingers do something wrong, they're all forgiven cuz "jesus still loves the sinner". If a liberal does something wrong, it's never forgiven... ever.

[Nuff]

10. I know about Laura's accident.

What I really need to show sis is the links to Bush's DUI's and drug use--I CANNOT get her to listen!

[Saint Stephen]

13. Bush's DUI

Here you go.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html

Cheney had TWO DUIs.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/cheney_doc.html

[Nuff]

19. Hey, thanks!

That'll certainly get the ball rolling!

[Erika]

14. Do a google on them

Both were DUI offendors.

[SunDrop23]

6. F*ck the right wingers.

[Catherine Vincent]

8. The wingnuts will never let Ted Kennedy forget about that night.

I remember in the early 80's, I had just started working in corporate America, one of the managers had mentioned something about a Kennedy and whatever it was I must have disagreed with him because he asked me if I had heard about what happened with that Kennedy and how he drowned some woman. I told him I didn't hear about that....(I didn't because I was too young to know all about it and politics didn't interst me until after Clinton was elected.) He was surprised I didn't know about that. I'm guess this manager was a republican that didn't like the Kennedy's period.

[Erika]

11. As I said, both W and Cheney had been guilty of DUIs

And Laura had killed a young man, by running a stop sign. She had no charges filed against her.

This vitriolic hate against Ted Kennedy is insane. But so are Bushbots.

[chicagiana]

96. It wasn't just ANYONE !!!!

It was her EX-BOYFRIEND that she ran down and killed by running a stop sign.

Hmmm... Can anyone say MOTIVE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I'm sure all the ladies are out there nodding. If they had run down their ex-boyfriend in a car they would have been arrested. Because they all know damn well that they've thought about it ;-)

[Hippo_Tron]

9. Isn't it Mary Jo Copechne's fault for getting the car with him?

I mean, I'm not saying that what he did was a good thing, but it was ultimately her own lapse in judgement that got her killed.

[Erika]

12. Was it wrong for Laura's friend to behind the wheel

when the accident occurred which took his life and she walked away without a ticket?

[Hippo_Tron]

16. No it wasn't his fault, because he didn't do anything wrong

Mary Jo Copechne got into a car with a drunk driver. When you get into a car with a drunk driver, you know the risk that you are taking. Either that, or you are too drunk to realize what you are doing which is also a lapse of judgment in itself.

The guy that Laura Bush killed does not bear any of the responsibility. Mary Jo Copechne was killed just as much by her own stupidity as well as she was by Teddy Kennedy's recklessness.

[Erika]

17. What proof do you have of any drunkeness?

Why wasn't Laura Bush brought up on charges?

[Hippo_Tron]

20. Why else does somebody drive their car off of a bridge?

Ted Kennedy was drunk when he drove his car off of the bridge. Mary Jo Copechne was a fucking stupid for getting in the car with a drunk driver.

[Erika]

22. Laura Bush killed a kid

I wonder if alcohol was involved. Why wasn't she charged? She would have been in this state.

[snowbear]

25. Strange how that case is never discussed...

We know she was never charged with negligent homicide, but I wonder if she was at least cited?

[Erika]

26. I've heard she was never cited

I know in this state if she had run a stop sign causing a death she would have been up for a charge of at least involuntary manslaughter. Even at 17.

It kind of reminds me of Nicole Bush's drug charges. In this state she would have qualified for the three strikes law and probably been imprisoned for the rest of her life.

[karynnj]

63. It was mentioned in articles in 2000

but with few details and very sympathetically - Laura complained about the insensitivity of it being mentioned at all.

In 2004, Laura was turned into St Laura - in spite of nothing in her history suggeting that she was in the least bit extraordinary.

Teresa - who is very exceptional, brilliant and who has very competently run a philanthropy, in contrast was treated with disdain by the media. How many woman (or men) would have caught the trend in their spouse's medical tests, that was missed by the doctor, suggesting more tests for cancer?

Imagine what the press would have done if the boyfriend killed would have been Teresa's, killed by her negligence. (Half FR would be pointing out that there are no statute of limitations for murder.)

[CBHagman]

92. I know. If this had been Cindy McCain or Tipper Gore...

...the whole country might have heard about it. If it had been Teresa Heinz Kerry or Hillary Clinton, the GOP would have gotten a teenaged boy in a shroud to appear at campaign rallies.

I have no idea why Laura Welch ran that stop sign, and I'm not willing to speculate. But I am fascinated by the fact that one of her biographers recounted the accident strictly from the point of view that it was traumatic for her, the driver, rather than for the passenger and the family/friends of the kid who died.

[chicagiana]

97. Teresa was even accused of outsourcing jobs ...

Teresa was accused of outsourcing jobs at Heinz, a company she doesn't even own.

[HomerRamone]

58. Maybe his car was booby-trapped.

http://jpstillwater.blogspot.com/2005_06_01_jpstillwater_archive.html

"Most likely the Chappaquiddick incident was intended as a frame-up," said Patrick. "It was a more plausible alternative to a third Kennedy brother assassination (which might have raised eyebrows). In that respect, it did not fail. Dirtying Teddy's reputation at Chappaquiddick, along with likely threats that more could come, served to effectively remove him as the one presidential candidate who would re-open the Dallas investigation."

<...>

Meanwhile, back at the bridge: There is one piece missing in Patrick's theory: How would the Bad Guys know that Mary Jo would die and that Teddy would swim free of the wreck? They couldn't have known that. Nope, it had to be that they were out to kill yet another popular young Kennedy presidential candidate -- only this time to make it look like an accident.

Why am I thinking this? Maybe our Ted just got drunk, was speeding too fast and went off the bridge? Well sure, Teddy was a bit of a playboy. But still. While making the 90-degree turn onto the road to the bridge, even he had to slow down. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have been able to make the turn and the headlines would have read, "Teddy Kennedy drives into a field" instead.

So. How did the Bad Guys arrange the accident? Was a surveillance team watching for an opportunity? Did an infiltrator encourage Teddy to drive around the island that night? A sabotaged tire? An object placed in the road? A slow leak of brake fluid? Or did they just run him off the road like they did with Karen Silkwood? You gotta remember that this happened long before there were more subtle inventions like laser beams and anthrax.

<...>

"But," you might say, "if all this is true, why hasn't Teddy spoken out?" If you had just had two of your brothers brutally murdered and an attempt had just been made on your life, what would you have done?

MORE: http://jpstillwater.blogspot.com/2005_06_01_jpstillwater_archive.html

[Silverhair]

88. The simplest explanations are usually the best.

Tinfoil hat crowd never ceases to amaze me with the silliness of their theories. There was only room on the bridge for one car. It was a one lane bridge. So where are you going to drive to be able to run him off the road - in the air?

The simplest answer is the most likely. Kennedy had been drinking and he & Mary Joe were going somewhere to go "parking". Kennedy was thinking of sex more than his driving, (One hand on the wheel and one hand on Mary Joe) and combined with the effects of booze, he didn't stay in his lane. On a one lane bridge, that can be, and was, a very bad thing.

Modern cars almost all have bucket seats. Cars of that period mostly had bench front seats. So you could have your chicky snuggled up under your arm while you drove with your left hand, and did other things with your right hand. (Been there - done that)

No stupid conspiracy theories needed - just lots of horomones and a little booze.

[Catherine Vincent]

15. No.

[Hippo_Tron]

18. She got in the car with a drunk driver

Again, I'm not saying that Ted Kennedy walks away from this guilt free. He got drunk and drove his car off of a bridge and got his girlfriend killed. That was stupid.

Mary Jo Copechne got in the car with a drunk driver which was equally stupid. Surely she bears some of the responsibility for her own death.

[Erika]

21. No, Ted Kennedy did not get his girlfriend killed

Laura Bush did kill the kid by running a stop sign.

[Nuff]

23. I disagree.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that it WAS Mary Jo's fault for getting into the car, knowing they were leaving a party where the alcohol had freely flowed, at night, in possibly an unfamiliar area to her--and Ted drove off a bridge and their car was submerged in water. That is an extremely dangerous situation.

However, events, up to that point, did not result in her death. Her death was caused by Ted Kennedy not trying to rescue her himself, not telling anyone else what he had done, not going for help by knocking on the doors of the houses around them--which were close enough to offer, or call for, timely aid.

Ted, too, knew he'd been drinking, knew the island was not well-lighted, knew it was late, knew that they had wrecked, knew the car was submerged with Mary Jo in it, knew the places to call for help, knew he was an able swimmer, knew he was not injured badly enough to be unable to offer assistance of his own, knew that there were other friends and family members on the island that could've helped--and used NONE of these things to help--possibly save--Mary Jo Kopechne.

He IS to blame for her death. Thinking anything else is monsterous. If you're going to split hairs, let's split them ALL.

[Erika]

24. The courts found contrary to your findings

Why wasn't any investigation done on the boy killed by Laura's running the stop sign?

This villification of Ted Kennedy needs to stop. The Right wing fanatics did not seem to care about the DUI's of W or Cheney, and gave Laura a free pass on the death she caused.

[AGKISTRODON]

27. Everyone at the same time

We can't really expect the other side to stop, and continue on ourselves, can whe?. Somehow a polite and respectful dialogue must be started.

[Erika]

28. what's a "whe"

Just curious.

[AGKISTRODON]

32. Typing in the dark with a cat on your lap affects your typing

I have to sit just right so the tomcat feels comfortable, if not he starts extending his claws!B-)

[Nuff]

29. Ted

"Why wasn't any investigation done on the boy killed by Laura's running the stop sign?"

I have no idea who was in charge of determining such things 30-40 years ago. The DA'S, judges, police, at that time, could easily have been Democrats, Independents--even communists for all I know. I don't know the laws in the state where it happened, nor who passed them. As far as the boy goes--and in answer to your question, I'm not sure I understand why he would need to be investigated...


"The Right wing fanatics did not seem to care about the DUI's of W or Cheney"

Again, I have no idea who was in charge when these offenses took place, nor of the political affiliation of the DA's and lawmakers of the times. As far as 'not caring' goes, I think it's hard to expect much outrage and sympathy for nearly any but the worst crime that happened 30-40 years ago. People don't seem to have long memories for such things; it's hard to continually stoke the fires of bitterness everyday.

Laura, Dick Cheney, and Bush certainly weren't given a pass on these things back 40 years ago because anybody anticipated they would one day rise to the positions they have in a Republican administration. Thus, they were probably treated the same way any other white, middle class kid of the times would've been.

[Erika]

30. Ah, Ted Kennedy had his accident at the same time period

Your argument is silly at best.

[Erika]

31. Ah, Ted Kennedy had his accident at the same time period

Your argument is silly at best.

[Nuff]

33. Kennedy

What was the penalty he had to pay?

[Nuff]

34. He got a suspended sentence.

There was no jail time whatsoever.

[Erika]

35. And Laura's sentence was?

[Nuff]

37. Laura's sentence was the same.

And she had not run off, not calling for help, the way Ted did.

[Erika]

39. Huh. She was never cited

[Nuff]

44. No, she wasn't.

I think Ted running off without either helping Mary Jo himself, or calling for help, hurt him. That's why he was charged a bit more heavily (and the laws in Texas? and Massachusettes may not have been the same, too).

Ultimately, they each paid the same price.

[thebigidea]

45. the same price? Nobody on tv or print ever brings up Laura's thing

comedians haven't spent years making jokes about Laura's manslaughter. Its not an albatross around her neck, its been tossed down the memory hole. TV documentaries on Laura never even mention it, as opposed to a somber 10 minute segment on Kennedy's fuckup in every docu.

[Nuff]

48. The differences:

Kennedy's was the more controversial crime because there are questions that remain. Laura's accident happened when she was 17 years-old and still a minor--our society usually treats minors more gently than adults. Laura's was considered purely an accident because it was one. Whereas Ted DELIBERATELY left Mary Jo without help overnight.

Most of the entertainers are liberals--a majority vote Democrat. If Ted's crime still gets mentioned and bandied about, perhaps you'd better take it up with them.

For myself, I first heard of Laura's crime on TV--and I still do. Perhaps it's mentioned more than you think.

[Yupster]

70. One reason Ted's made bigger headlines was

that Ted was a Senator and Laura was a 17 year old who wasn't part of the Bush family.

Ted also already had people who hated him even before Chapaqquidik.

Some people were still angry over the unusual way he became Senator, and many also still remembered that he was thrown out of college for cheating.

[thebigidea]

36. yeah, Bush was JUST a white, middle class kid

in what alternate dimension? He was the son of a rich, upper class powerful political figure. Don't give me this middle class shit. That plain ol' folks cowboy shit hasn't fooled anybody.

[Erika]

41. He was born in New England and attended prep schools there

He was and is an eletist.

[Nuff]

42. His record:

It seems Ted has had his troubles too:

http://www.ytedk.com/drivingrecord.htm

[thebigidea]

43. what the fuck does that have to do with Bush's silver spoon?

I don't give a shit about Ted Kennedy's driving record, despite the obsessions of the right. I'm taking you to task for your grotesque distortion of George Bush's status. Don't you dare try to sell us that little elitist prince as middle class.

He was a pampered son of privilege his whole life, and no amount of phony drawl is going to change that.

I know you can't do anything but change the subject, because you know you're wrong.

[Nuff]

46. Status

Ted Kennedy, George Bush, Al Gore, John Kerry, FDR etc. all come from the upper crust. My point was that Cheney, Laura, Bush, Kennedy etc. paid approximately the same penalty as anyone else who maintained that same station in life. Bush/Laura/Cheney weren't favored, given lighter sentences, than Kennedy, Gore's son etc. because they were Republicans.

People make mistakes, and wealthy people--Republicans, Independents, Democrats etc.--can afford better lawyers and usually get lighter sentences. That's not fair, but it happens to Repubs and Democrats--and most every other political group--to the same degree. It's about the privilege of class--and there are plenty of extremely wealthy Democrats.

[thebigidea]

47. so we go from middle class to upper crust in 2 posts. Flipflopper!

I have no interest in the driving records or treatment, I just thought it was absolutely hysterical that someone would try to claim that Bush was middle class. Even HE doesn't try that line...

honestly, how the heck did you come up with that one?

[Nuff]

49. Hey, put upper middle class then...

It doesn't change the main point: Bush/Cheney/Laura were treated the way any DEMOCRAT at the same station in life would be treated. They did not get special treatment because they were Republicans. Isn't that the main point?

[thebigidea]

51. I don't care about your main point,

I'm just interested in your trying to make George Bush into some sort of common man. He never was. What made you think he was middle class? try and respond without mentioning John Kerry, Al Gore, or Scrooge McDuck.

[Nuff]

53. Not exactly.

My parents grew up in much more reduced circumstances than that--middle class/upper middle class seemed at the time of these crimes, wealthy to me. I'm sure Bush is no more common a man than Ted is. BOTH their families are similarly wealthy.

Calm down.

[thebigidea]

54. Again, I don't care about Kennedy. Only your misrepresentation.

I'm not interested in comparing the two, or strenuously babbling about Kennedy's wealth. I'm not spreading lies about Kennedy being some coal mining man who grew up dirt poor.

So stop dragging them into it. Why can't you just owe up to your mistake without having to drag other people into it?

[Nuff]

55. Calm down

There is not a hard criteria for what is middle class vs. upper middle class vs. upper class, it's a matter of perception. Middle class/upper middle class seemed like someone doing very well--especially 30-40 years ago.

I never ONCE implied ANYBODY grew up dirt poor--and it's ridiculous of you to say so.

[Nuff]

56. Dupe--sorry

[Nuff]

57. Dupe--sorry

[Yupster]

76. Who cares but

Ted Kennedy never lived in homes like the Bushes. There was just no comparison.

[Yupster]

75. The homes he lived in

growing up were very middle class.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

68. So you think there wasn't any special political favors pulled for the

scrubbing of the DMV records of Chucklenuts? That the records of his misadventures was just mystically erased by wishful thinking? Puh-leeze, Chucklenuts and Pickles have a long history of enjoying special favors offered by special "friends." From cleaning official records to getting their butts bailed out of failed businesses by daddy's friends these two have enjoyed the unlimited ability to do and say anything they want and walk away scotch free. The same friends that are getting those favors repaid with bonuses with special, no-bid contracts, unlimited access to oil reserves, etc. Chucklenuts is bought and paid for and has been his entire life. It was never a question what Chucklenuts is, all that is left for discussion is his price.

[Nuff]

50. In other words:

Kennedy has the same silver spoon in his mouth--as does Kerry, Gore and many others on both sides.

[thebigidea]

52. who cares? I didn't try to pretend Kennedy was middle class.

I didn't try to pretend Gore was some salt of the earth fellow with a common background. I'm not lying about the economic status of politicians. Strop dragging Democrats into this, it has nothing whatsoever to do with what I'm talking about.

You can argue about them with all the other folks on this thread: my only quibble is with your flabbergasting crap about Bush being middle class.

Again, where did you get that from?

Are you going to admit you were flat, dead, rotting, reeking wrong?

Or just continue naming Democrats and dodging around the issue?

[karynnj]

65. Kerry did NOT grow up wealthy

just related to people who were wealthy and educated in schools with children of the truely wealthy. Kerry's dad opted to work as a diplomat rather than use his connections (through his wife) and his degrees to become wealthy - much like his son who worked as a proscecutor, Lt Governor and Senator rather than using his skill and gifts to become independently wealthy.

I doubt Bush, Kennedy or even Gore worked part-time whne they went to college and worked part of the summers - Kerry did.

Kerry, to his credit, never argued that he wasn't rich - instead saying he had a priviledged background (which he had and which is really more relevent) and then talking about service. During the campaign, it was interesting to hear interviews with his sister Peggy and his daughters- that show they have similar values.

[karynnj]

64. I agree with it being class, not party - but why bring Gore and Kerry in

Both of them, in spite of being part of that class saw it as a call for service, not a means to get away with anything. I don't remember Gore having any arrests (though his son did) and Kerry's only arrest was a misdemeanor of staying past closing time in a park in a peaceful anti-war demon station (that was backed by many town's people - Kerry was credited with keeping things peaceful and calm.) He was fined something like $10 like everyone else there. None of the Kerry or Heinz kids have been arrested.

I DO agree that an upper class kid is not treated like a lower class kid for doing the same thing. My only disagreement is that some see the privilege as a reason to give back. Kennedy was at minimum guilty of driving when drunk - which is worse than riding in a car with a drunk driver. The same drunkenness may have influenced his actions after going off the bridge - I really can't see a coherent Kennedy intentionally sacrificing a person. Between the alcohol, the shock, and the physical trauma - he clearly did not respond appropriately.

Kennedy is an incredible Senator but this is real and it does stick - but if I were in Massachusetts, I would vote for him because of the values he has relating to the bills he sponsors. (I do have far far more respect and admiration for his Jr Senator who risked his life to save someone and even jumped into water to save his daughters' hamster to spare them pain.)

[Nuff]

66. The whole issue...

If you scroll up, you'll see that the whole thread began when it was asserted that Mary Jo had caused her own death--which is ridiculous--and that Ted was charged in that crime, but Bush, Laura, Cheney got a 'pass' on their youthful crimes because of who they were.

I simply said that Mary Jo might have put herself in a risky situation, but it was Ted's inaction that led to her death--she was NOT culpable in it.

Also, Cheney, Bush, Laura weren't treated any differently than any other white kid, at the same station in life as they were, would have been treated at the time. No one knew that they would become important Republicans 30-40 years later, so nobody gave them a pass for that reason when they did their crime. There are plenty of wealthy Democrats, just like there are plenty of wealthy Republicans. When EITHER side has committed crimes of DUI etc. they are treated pretty much the same. The Republicans are NOT given a free pass--and the Democrats aren't given much stiffer sentences. The wealthy, no matter which side they are on, can afford better lawyers, and generally receive lesser sentences. It's a class thing--not a political thing.

That's all it was about. I'll gladly nail the Repubs on whatever they need to nailed on, but facts are facts.

[karynnj]

80. I do agree to some degree

I clearly don't think that getting in a car with someone drunk, excuses him for driving drunk.

I do think that a white middle/upper class kid will get off or be sent for treatment rather than go to jail. I have read the stuff on Laura, but it may be the police determined it was an inexperienced driver who was paying too much attention to her friends - and opted against a ticket. The families likely knew each other and it may be his family that requested she not be indicted. If there was something to some posts on previous threads which nearly charge her with intential murder, there would have been a scandal.

My point is why bring Gore and Kerry in - where to my knowledge neither EVER were as irresponsible as Bush, Cheney, Laura, and Kennedy. I seriously doubt that Kerry who rescued a man while underfire (and a hamster who was drowning) wouldn't have risked his life to save someone in his car.

[Zhade]

94. Whatever, Freeper.

[Yupster]

73. Bush growing up in Midland

is an interesting story of contrasts.

I live there so I know a lot of people who knew him and I've seen the homes he grew up in.

The homes he grew up in around Midland are a mixed lot. The first one he lived in (1950-51) is a disaster. It's a tiny little thing that screams poverty. The second house (1952-56) is the one that is being restored as a tourist trap. It is also a small house by Midland standards (1400 sq ft maybe), but to me looks like a typical working class home of the 1950's) You could see Archie Bunker living there. By the time they left Midland the homes were typical Midland nice upper-Midlle class homes.

When Bush came back as a single guy, he lived in two apartment like homes (servants homes in back of people's houses that he didn't know. This is not too uncommon for Midland either.

None of the homes the Bush's lived in would ever remind anyone of the Kennedys.

Just as an example, if you were to buy his homes today (assuming no Bush name association), they would cost about $ 40,000, then maybe $ 75,000 for the one being restored to $ 150,000 and maybe $ 200,000 for the later homes. I realize these numbers will seem ridiculously low to many of you, but home prices are very reasonable for Midland. I have a very nice 3,400 sq ft home that would go for about $ 170,000. I know because we considered selling it 2-3 months ago to get a smaller home.

Anyway, the crappiness of the homes would not necessarily mean the family didn't have money. In Midland's boom and bust economies, you often have people buying whatever home is available. Then you step up when you can. You can see this with the Bushes as they lived in about 6-7 homes in 20 years.

A co-worker of mine claims that Bush was his Little League coach. I know other people who were in his prayer group and Sunday School class.

Anyway, the reports I get is of a pretty regular guy who you'd never think would be president, but in the middle of the "regular" would be a family who would send him away to an elite boarding school back east. So it wasw elementary school with the cowboys and roughnecks in West Texas and high school with the preppies back east.

I think that mix may be part of the weirdness that is George W Bush.

[Yupster]

74. Bush growing up in Midland

is an interesting story of contrasts.

I live there so I know a lot of people who knew him and I've seen the homes he grew up in.

The homes he grew up in around Midland are a mixed lot. The first one he lived in (1950-51) is a disaster. It's a tiny little thing that screams poverty. The second house (1952-56) is the one that is being restored as a tourist trap. It is also a small house by Midland standards (1400 sq ft maybe), but to me looks like a typical working class home of the 1950's) You could see Archie Bunker living there. By the time they left Midland the homes were typical Midland nice upper-Midlle class homes.

When Bush came back as a single guy, he lived in two apartment like homes (servants homes in back of people's houses that he didn't know. This is not too uncommon for Midland either.

None of the homes the Bush's lived in would ever remind anyone of the Kennedys.

Just as an example, if you were to buy his homes today (assuming no Bush name association), they would cost about $ 40,000, then maybe $ 75,000 for the one being restored to $ 150,000 and maybe $ 200,000 for the later homes. I realize these numbers will seem ridiculously low to many of you, but home prices are very reasonable for Midland. I have a very nice 3,400 sq ft home that would go for about $ 170,000. I know because we considered selling it 2-3 months ago to get a smaller home.

Anyway, the crappiness of the homes would not necessarily mean the family didn't have money. In Midland's boom and bust economies, you often have people buying whatever home is available. Then you step up when you can. You can see this with the Bushes as they lived in about 6-7 homes in 20 years.

A co-worker of mine claims that Bush was his Little League coach. I know other people who were in his prayer group and Sunday School class.

Anyway, the reports I get is of a pretty regular guy who you'd never think would be president, but in the middle of the "regular" would be a family who would send him away to an elite boarding school back east. So it wasw elementary school with the cowboys and roughnecks in West Texas and high school with the preppies back east.

I think that mix may be part of the weirdness that is George W Bush.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

67. Well, you can give Pickles a pass on killing a boyfriend, how about

a honest discussion of her dealing drugs while at college? (reported by Kitty Kelley) Or Chucklenuts getting his girlfriend an abortion before it was legal (Kelley)? Or Chucklenuts doing drugs into his 40s?

Somehow, Ted Kennedy giving a girl a ride home one night over 30 years ago with horrible results (I'm not excusing Kennedy - dumb, stupid behavior but it WAS an accident) is fair game no matter the discussion but talking about Pickles' and Chimpy's history of long, continued, spoiled actions that was a consistent pattern of behaviors is okie, dokie because they "found" religion. I think the thing I hate most about organized religion is the hypocrisy.

Today's religion claims that all is forgiven if you are truly sorry and "born again" unless you are a liberal or a Democrat. Then it is hung around your neck for eternity.

And say what you will about Kitty Kelley, she may have been vilified by the repugs but they have never disputed her reporting. Had no lawsuits filed against her and you won't catch the Bushes going on record about anything she reported. She nailed the entire family in her book.

[johnnyburma]

60. What courts? I don't remember him being charged.

[Yupster]

62. People have posted good stories on the Bush killing

many times on DU. They had the local police interviews and all that.

The main thing to me is that there couldn't have been any conspiracy because she didn't even know Bush back then. She was just an 18 year old middle class kid.

[No Exit]

83. Okay, let's split them all. 2150 and COUNTING.

2150 dead American kids, and COUNTING.

Ted Kennedy--1.
George W. Bush--2150 and counting...

And DON'T come on here and tell me Bush is not PERSONALLY to blame for those people's deaths. And I'm not even counting the non-Americans.

[FXDS]

85. Ted dove three

times to save Mary Jo! When the rescue divers arrived with scuba gear ect, they would not dive because the current was to strong!

I'm not giving Mr. Kennedy a pass, but let give credit were credit is due!

BTW I got this from a right wing smear piece! No I don't have a link.

[karynnj]

89. I had forgotten that

Your mention does bring that back - I vaguely remember that he spoke to the people of MA (and it was covered on national TV) wearing a neck brace. (Was this after the plane crash that hurt his back - which still gives him trouble?)

[Yupster]

61. What?

How do you figure?

[lynne]

69. Most Certainly !

Just as it is the woman's fault when she is raped as the slut was just asking for it. And if the homeowner didn't leave their house the burglar wouldn't have broken into it. And if the victim had just dodged a bit to the left the bullet wouldn't have hit them.

Just remember that the victim is always responsible should you ever find yourself in that situation.

[JI7]

38. i agree, Ted Kennedy is held responsible for what he did

the difference between Ted Kennedy and the others you mention is that Kennedy believes in second chances. all the work he has done in his life were about helping people. he never condemns them for life as hypocrites like Bush, Cheney etc do.i remember Bush supported some law taking away the chance to win scholarships for anyone who had gotten in trouble with drugs previously.

and i agree about Laura Bush. if this was Hillary, Teresa, Nancy Pelosi or any other Dem woman we would hear about it endlessly. the whore media treats her as if she is some kind of saint. when in reality she is cold viscious and hateful who only cares about her own circle of people.

[Erika]

40. True. If a dem woman had the history of Laura Bush

The right wingers would be screaming at the top of their lungs.

[rox63]

59. Ted Kennedy knows he will never escape the Chappaquiddick legacy

That's why he gave up his presidential ambitions after the 1980 primaries. He realized this would always come back to haunt and label him. And yes, I do think he is at least partially responsible for Mary Jo Kopechne's death. He did something stupid - driving drunk, which resulted in an innocent person's death. But Kennedy has done so much good in the ensuing decades, I am willing to forgive him his faults and transgressions. Once the presidency was off the table, he became the hardest-working liberal Senator out there. I'm proud to have him as my Senator.

Tell me, what good have George Bush, Laura Bush and Dick Cheney done? Nothing I can think of.

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. WHO CARES?

Not me.

If it wasn't this, they would find something else to hate Kennedy for. He's a librul. It goes against their religion and their principles to like him.

[AGKISTRODON]

77. THING IS,I AM REDNECK!

If I got picked to enter the Kennedy compound, they would count the silverware when I left! Liberal should mean that at least one time in your life, you had to go out, and find something edible, or watch your babies go to bed hungry.
Why can't we find a real, down to earth, American, to carry our flag?

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. So you think all liberals are rich?

bwahahahahaha
:rofl:

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

72. That is why I made a contribution to his campaign. That and I've been

a fan of JFK, RFK, and Teddy for decades.

Repukes would consider it a great prize to take that seat away.

Must not be allowed to happen.

[Joe Chi Minh]

79. It's because the Kennedys are a dynasty, and they will never

have the class or the support of the people to provide one. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. They surely wouldn't have been in government for several decades but for their villainy.

Tee! Hee! The Clintons are already a dynasty!

[Vektor]

81. Most politicians, and HUMANS for that matter, have skeletons in the closet

and have made mistakes somewhere along the line. Dem and Repub alike. Trouble, is, the 'pukes like to fixate on old history (like Chappaquiddick, Kerry's war medals, etc.) and continuously beat dead horses in an attempt to vilify great men who have accomplished so much in life, because the Repukes feel threatened by such men. The 'pukes have no CURRENT news that serves their purpose. If you were to do a side-by-side comparison of the accomplishments of Democrats lately, versus the flops and blunders of Bush, et al, it would be glaringly obvious which party is doing right by America, and which one is making a mockery of our great nation.

Since they have no real leg to stand on regarding current events, they can do nothing but regurgitate 35 year old conjecture whenever called upon to "defend" their side. It's all they've got.

[karynnj]

82. I totally agree with you - why are they hitting Democrats about 35 year

old events. In Kerry's case they took medals that he had every right to be proud of - he earned them for doing the right things. They were certainly not skeletons - he actually has nothing that can be called a skeleton. (which I know the poster above would agree with)

[Vektor]

84. I apologize, I should have worded my statement more clearly.

No, Kerry's medals certainly have nothing to do with "skeletons." I didn't mean to imply that. I was referring to Chappaquiddick, and then included Kerry's experience in Vietnam as one of the 35 year old events that the Repukes continuously keep trying to skew.

You knew I didn't mean that Kerry had skeletons, right?

[karynnj]

91. Sorry Vector, I knew and said that I know you didn't mean to

imply that. While saying that of course Kerry's medals were to his credit, I agree with you that they often will use 35+ year stuff to smear - which is an excellent point. In Kerry's case, we both agree that they used his valor in war and his honesty and morality in protesting against him.

Your point is true in Kerry's case in a more complicated way. Both of us are enormously impressed by the courage, brilliance, eloquence etc that Kerry showed in protesting the war. But, if you take the Republican view (just for a second - because it's yucky) that Kerry was wrong to protest, it was still over 30 years ago, he broke no laws, he was 27 and just back from a war. (Contrast this to Bush's 1971 status - the right wing would have used the fact that Kerry (if he was acting like Bush - which he wasn't) was drinking as much as Bush or doing drugs.)

[Vektor]

100. No problem.

It's all good. I know you and I are on the same page here.

:pals:

[AtomicKitten]

86. I think they were just defusing the power of the Kennedy name.

I truly regret JFK, Jr.'s unfulfilled promise politically. Maybe Caroline will run some day.

[Silverhair]

87. Simple answer. Partisan hatred. It goes both ways.

The right hates Kennedy so much that they will leap on anything to try to damage him. Our side does the same thing. Look at the frequent posts on Laura's accident and the posters who try to accuse her of drunken, deliberate, murder. Same with the right who want to accuse Kennedy of drunken, deliberate, murder.

Both were simply tragic accidents.

[jumptheshadow]

90. Are you kidding me?

While I admire what Ted Kennedy has done as a public servant, and the fact that he has spent a lifetime atoning for that evening on the bridge, do not let partisan sentiment devalue the profundity of what happened that night. A young woman who could have been rescued died, an awful death by the way, she was conscious as the water seeped up over her her. Details of the incident were subsequently stonewalled and witnesses to that evening's events did pretty well in their careers afterwards. (I remember that a satirical magazine once actually printed a chart of the soaring career trajectories taken by many of the participants/witnesses in that evening.) I am frankly sickened by the "blame the victim" mentality on this thread here. You all must be about 17 years old because you certainly don't remember how shocking and how stomach-turning this event was. Obviously some of us have lost our moral and ethical compass here when we start making excuses for arrogant irresponsibility because we agree with a guy's politics.

This is not a Republican and Democrat thing. This is a class thing. Any of us who weren't politically connected multi-millionaires would have been ruined forever after that incident and probably would have served hard time as well.

Do I believe that Teddy Kennedy, at a young age the ne'er do well of his family, suffered and matured after this tragedy and has given us decades of inspired public service since then? Yes. Do I believe that the Kennedys as a family have borne emotionally wrenching tragedies that generated tortuous emotional feelings for its members, and that many of them have risen from the despair to make genuine contributions with their lives? Yes. Do I believe in the concept of redemption? Yes. In the years since Chappaquiddick Teddy Kennedy has done the best he could do with his life, has helped millions of people and has been one of the most articulate voices for solid Democratic party principles.

However, he will always carry the legacy of Chappaquiddick. The bottom line is that he will always be viewed as a flawed man who grappled with horrific tragedy and gut-wrenching guilt and then spent the better part of his life working to redeem himself.

[rinsd]

93. Absolutely outstanding post....(nt)

[incapsulated]

101. You said it all

Thank you.

I find some of the comments on this thread reprehensible, "she got in the car with a drunk driver", Lara did it too, so who cares, what the fuck is wrong with people?

And you're damn right if it was any one of us we would have done hard time, not sat around mulling our future career in the Seante or running for President.

I love Teddy, but give me a break!

[chicagiana]

95. Is he the "most liberal" Senator again ????

Because I kept getting told last election that John Kerry was the most liberal Senator.

[Vektor]

99. That was based on one year of Kerry's 22 year Senate career.

Carefully worded, expertly manipulated crap by the Repukes again. As a whole, Kerry is ranked about #11-24.

From Wikipedia:
"Most analyses place Kerry's voting record near to, or somewhat to the left of, center within the Senate Democratic caucus.<41> During the 2004 presidential election he was portrayed as a staunch liberal by conservative special interest groups and the Bush campaign, who often noted that in 2003 Kerry was rated the National Journal's top Senate liberal. However, that rating was based only upon voting on legislation within that past year. In fact, in terms of career voting records, the National Journal found that Kerry is the 11th most liberal member of the Senate. Most analyses find that Kerry is "a bit" more liberal than the typical Democratic Senator. For example, Keith T. Poole of the University of Houston found that Kerry was tied for being the 24th most liberal Senator."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry

Not that being Liberal is a bad thing. Not at all. Liberal = Generous. It's something to be proud of.

[Totally Committed]

98. Look, Ted has succeeded in becoming one of the finest Senators

ever to hold that office. He is not now, and in fact, has never been "perfect", but still has been nothing but a blessing to the state of Massachusetts, and has held on to his Liberal Democratic ideals, and voted them for decades. This is the best "revenge" against the Right Wing Extremists who villify him, and is the reason they continue their villification to this day.

TC