Do we really want Hillary as President because of Hillary

[MindLikeAParachute]

Or are secretly wishing we'll get Bill back?

I know they make a team, and would be great, but Hillary has a mind of her own, and I bet it differs with Bill on many subjects. That said, I'll take her over * any day (I'd take a toad over * any day), but honestly, do we want Hillary because of Hillary, or do we want Hillary because of Bill? Because it'll affect how this whole thing is driven and promoted.

[waiting for hope]

1. I was at Barnes and Noble

the other day and was just stupefied over a book in the Current Affairs section - "Condi vs Hillary" ...couldn't bring myself to even touch it...:grr:

[harpo]

2. hillary voted YES on Iraq and stands by it...I vote NO on her

[Selteri]

16. That's my reasoning too. NT

[ixion]

3. running her would be a BIG MISTAKE

IMO.

[Neil Lisst]

4. Here's ONE reason we don't want Hillary ...

[skipos]

21. Kucinich and Clark have supported flag burning bans too

Hillary is my last choice for 08 for a multitude of reasons.

[Clark2008]

25. Yeah, but Denny and Wes don't run to go cozying up

to right-wing issues every two seconds. One mistake is an anomaly on both Kucinich and Clark's parts. With Hillary, it's a way of life.

[MrModerate]

5. I voted "no Hillary" but I'll tell you this . . .

I WILL vote for whoever promises to fix the incredibly stupid and expensive way we dispense health care in this country, because that's what's going to bankrupt the average Joe and Jane more certainly than tax cuts for the rich, foreign wars we can't pay for, or a million other corporate entitlement programs.

And Hill (and Bill) made a pretty good start on a fix in '92, just didn't have the political savvy to get it done.

[Coastie for Truth]

10. Wasn't political savvy

They came up against the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" (Scaife, Coors, etc.) plus the vast "Health Care Conspiracy" (Karen Ignagni and her "Harry and Louise" infomercials; Mr. Bill Frist, the Drug Cartel, the Insurance cartel, the for profit Hospital Chains like Mister Frist's HCA and the and the megabucks that both elected the Gingrich "Contract n America" team and defeated Hillary's strongest ally, Pennsylvania's Harris Wofford and gave us Rick Santorum).

The same technique as the Swift Boating of Kerry. And, like the Swift Boating of Kerry - it worked.

So we have Santorum instead of Wofford, and we have Mister Frist.

(My Mom is a retired OR Nurse and Nursing School Prof - and you should hear her on Mister Frist -- burn your ears off -- and she has never met him)

[MrModerate]

11. Like I said: "political savvy"

These guys have to be defeated somehow, and politics is the only path I see. Also in the savvy department, I don't think Clinton & Clinton realized how powerful and organized the resistance would be, or how broad-based the application of dirty tricks would be.

This was, IMO, the crystalization of the WRWC into an obvious, public menace, which had previously been behind the curtain.

[MadisonProgressive]

32. I voted 'No' but...

it would be funny to see the freepers heads explode when they got images of Bill wandering around the WH. Now THAT would be priceless!

[cosmicdot]

6. Wishing we could give '08; PRing one's favorite; or flamebaiting a rest.

n/m

[rhett o rick]

7. While Democracy is being destroyed, Hillary makes news by supporting

a ban on flag burning. I will not support any candidate that can keep quiet during these horrendous assaults on the Constitution and our freedoms.

[Tom Joad]

8. Bill was a nightmare. For the US, for the planet.

His continued sanctions on Iraq cost tens of thousands of lives (his Sec of State proudly said it was all worth it) With Hillary's urging, he signed the anti-poor people's bill ("welfare reform").
He did endorse a raise in the minimum wage, but only when the Repubs took over Congress, to put them on the spot (yes, they passed it) It sure as hell was not a living wage, which they opposed.
Yes, he was better than W. Yes, both W and Bill are better than Mussolini. These are not my standards, however.

[Coastie for Truth]

12. At least Bill wouldn't have given us this Professor in the DOJ

, link to original article , and he is even on the UC Berkeley Boalt Hall Law School and . No, I'll take Janet Reno and Robert Reich over the like of Judge Starr and Senatior Ashcroft and Alberto Gonzales, thank you.

And Hillary will not give us a Sam Alito or John Roberts or harriet Miers. I think Steve Breyer and Ruth Bader Ginsberg are just a little bit more to my liking then Alito.

And Bill Clinton never said "I will appoint Justices like Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia".

I am not picking on Boalt Hall - here's a winner from

[Tom Joad]

14. We must demand better than the Clinton's. We owe it to the planet.

[Coastie for Truth]

17. I'll buy beer for the House at Moran's in Oakland

when Mister Frist nominates Boalt Hall Professor John C. Yoo to SCOTUS.

[AmericanDream]

13. My sentiments exactlly.If Bill's our standard of "good", it isn't too high

I can't point to one reform put into place by his administration that moved America forward and ahead in a progressive way. He was a conservative in the literal sense... he only aimed to conserve the union that was handed over to them, he never aimed to reform it for the better. The Clinton Presidency lacked a vision, something we need desperately need to put this country back on track. He was competent (which is a great virtue, esp. in the light of the current administration), but without a clear vision or ideals. I think we can do way better!

[Coastie for Truth]

15. He was fighting

Chicken Hawk Dr. Newton Leroy Gingrich, PhD, and Chicken Hawk, Dr. Dick Armey, PhD, and Chicken Hawk Dr. Phil Graham, PhD, and all of the book bag tottin', pointy headed, right wing pseudo-intellectuals, with an out-pouring of Scaife, Coors, Norquist etc. money (the same money that is on Bush's side).

What may be the alternative in 08? Jebbie Bush? Mister Bill Frist? Maybe they can get John C. Yoo a Supreme Court seat.

We went through this stuff in 1968 against Hubert Humphrey - and got Trickie Dickie.

We went through the (Republican dirty tricks funded) Nader campaign in 2000 with its mantra of "TweedleDum and TweedleDee - both the same -don't make no difference" - Right? Didn't make No Difference?

What is this Death Wish of Progressives?

[AmericanDream]

26. the alternative in 08 would be...

the men and women who are going to run for the democratic nomination. I wasn't saying that I would vote for a republican over the clintons; my point was that Clinton is no standard for greatness and my vote would be a half-hearted one. But be assured that if hillary gets the nomination, she'll have my vote in the general (I took that point as a given). We have to choose the better alternative in the dem primaries... that was my point and I think there are a lot of better democrats who have the potential to be motivating leaders, and hillary isn't one of them.

[Coastie for Truth]

30. I agree with you - I will vote for the Dem nominee

Side note: altho I disagree with some of his policies - I think Harry Reid is a tough, feisty, hard nosed, hrd rock miner, prize fighter. He is not an Ivy League "nice guy" like Kerry. I like that - for a change.

As a (some time/former) academic myself - I think we run too many academic types.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. Clinton started caving into the right wingers in 1992 while he

still had a Democratic majority in the House. He never proposed anything progressive that he didn't back down on when the right-wingers objected. He had no core principles other than wanting to be liked by everyone.

I believe that the Republicanite takeover of the House in 1994 was due to a public perception that the Democrats "weren't doing anything." If Clinton had stood firm on national health care and made a public appeal a la Reagan (instead of trying to placate the insurance companies) and told the right wing military brass that anyone who publicly objected to his allowing gays in the military was guilty of insubordination, the public would have reacted favorably. I've noticed that an awful lot of people like gutsy politicians and don't particularly care what they're gutsy about. That has been part of Bush's appeal--he doesn't back down but brazens it out, no matter how badly things are going.

[asjr]

18. "I think we can do way better." -- That is

what got us into trouble in 2000. And look what we got! Whatever one may feel about BC. At least with the American people he was HONEST. We are fed lies every day with the current regime. Clinton was not perfect, no president will ever be, but he sure was a hell of a lot better than what we have now.

[AmericanDream]

24. what's the point?

Of course he is better than Bush, I wasn't refuting that.... but a lot of the people who are running in '08, imo, have the potential to be way better leaders than Bill Clinton. And no, clinton was NOT honest... but fortunately, the things that he did lie about were irrelevant to the lives of the American people unlike the current administration's lies.

Btw, your 2000 commentary is off-base... I don't think anyone here would advocate voting for a republican just because "we can do way better." That "better" is/was/has to be a part of the democratic party... I don't see anyone on the republican side who will be better than clinton but I do see many in our own party who have that "vision thing".

[acmejack]

9. It's Hillary by a landslide!

[LWolf]

19. "we?"

Some of the "we" don't now, and have never "wanted" Hillary, at least not if the "whole thing" you are referring to is a presidential candidate.

With respect to both, and no ill will intended, I'm not interested in either of the Clintons.

[katejones]

20. I certainly don't want Hillary

and I think she would just inflame all the right wingers and make them come out in droves, do we want that??

[Jai4WKC08]

22. Amen!

Hillary Clinton is the least electable of anyone discussed as a potential '08 nominee. The idea that women would vote for her because she's a woman is nonsense. And for all that most Democratic voters remember the Big Dawg fondly, that won't be enough to get them to vote for his wife. Especially if we're still at war, and there's no reason to think we won't be. Oh, a few might... for either reason or both... but no where near as many as would vote against her for the same reasons.

The GOP could run a pig and the right wing and a helluva lot of those in the middle would flock to the polls and open their wallets wide to defeat her. She's hated that much.

There are a lot more important things than picking who's most electable, but do we have to go with the one who couldn't beat the worst possible Republicans out there?

[McLuhan]

23. I don't want HRC;

however, I would vote for her over any Repuke. Go Wes!

[renie408]

28. Yep. Hillary would SCARE voters to the polls to vote against her.

Right or wrong, that's what would happen.

[abbiehoff]

27. I don't understand why the press seems to think that Hillary

is the likely Dem candidate for 2008. I think she's pretty much at the bottom of most people's list. If she does become the candidate, it will be because the voting machine companies think she will be the easiest to beat and make sure she wins the primaries.

[Zhade]

29. Who's this "we" you speak of?

Certainly not ME.

[PassingFair]

31. The name "Clinton" is the only democratic name many Americans

know! Pathetic as that sounds, they don't KNOW of any other democrats considering a run. It's that simple.
They may know that Kerry lost last time. That's about the extant of their interest. "Hillary" they've all heard of before.
I would vote for almost any other dem before her. She is the most hated woman in the country since Madeleine Murray O'Hare.

[McCamy Taylor]

33. I want BILL! But I think Hillary wants to be a Senator, and I feel sort

of sorry for her if she has to run for president, just because her husband wants to be president again for eight more years. She is obviously having a good time having her own career, and it seems like a shame for her to have to become an extension of Bill again. Cant he run for UN Head or something?

I sort of wish W. had gotten the ammendment saying how many times a pres could run changed BEFORE his approval went into the toilet.

[newyawker99]

34. Hi MindLikeAParachute!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[LynneSin]

36. Choice #5: I DON'T WANT A GOD DAMN REPUBLICAN

That's my vote! Oh and that's a republican who is registered republican and has the "R" next to their name. Not this bullshit "Oh I don't like that democrat because they didn't vote for the one issue I care about the most so they obviously must vote all the time like Bush and they might as well leave the party" You folks can all kiss my ass!