Three huge problems with Dean

[IowaBiker]

1) He talks about balanced budgets, but his campaign can't even do that.

2) He talks about being a Washington outsider, and he just hired one of the biggest insiders in Washington to runn his campaign.

3) Firing his campaign manager after the "scream." Yeah, let's blame the manager for that.

This guy reminds me of the excuse-making, prima-donna football player that Budwieser beer is highlighting in some current commercials. All deja Bush* to me.

I'm looking for a leader who can demonstrate leadership under fire. Not another whimpy excuse maker.

In the words of SCTVs count Floyd, "Scary, kids."

--Brian

[Loonman]

1. He hired that former Clinton/Gore, guy

Doesn't get any more "insider" than that.

[Hep]

2. Scary! We need more understanding, people

Less mindless flying off tha handle.

Dean balanced the budget in Vermont for eleven years, and someone wants to pay more attention to his campaign? Huh?

He's somehow less a washington outsider because of who he hires? HUH?!?

Fired his campaign manager becase of the scream? DOUBLE HUH?

YOW! I mean, would it be possible to have an arument built on LESS substantial information?

[THUNDER HANDS]

3. Dean is doing the best job he can

But he lost control over his campaign a few weeks ago.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

4. I agree to a certain extent

the big liability is the Washington outsider label won't hold because of all the insider endorsements and help he has gotten. It's totally lame. Especially for a guy who was governor for 10 years and part of DLC/governor conferences.

[Hawkeye-X]

5. Debunked

1) He still has a positive cash flow. Over (at last count) 6.2 million on hand.

2) So? Is Dean an insider by association? Answer is no. Dean is still an outsider because he was neither 1) Senator or 2) Representative or has legislated a bill inside the Beltway.

3) Trippi wasn't fired. Trippi has been reassigned and is still with the campaign doing grassroots and Internet work.

Try again, my friend.

Hawkeye-X

[liberalnurse]

13. I heard that the candidates who get matching funds

won't get their full paycheck either......That the Federal Funding account is broke. ....I wish I could read more about this as Lieberman, Kucinich, Clark and maybe Edwards are going to have to watch their cash too.

[Bozola]

20. Furthermore....

#1 - He has a staff of over 500 people, offices all over the place, equipment to buy/lease/rent, and worst of all, media spots to buy.

$40 million may seem like a lot of money, but it isn't for a national campaign.

[LuminousX]

6. Three Problems with this post

1. We don't know what has happened with campaign expenditures. Have you ever budgeted for a campaign? Donations aren't like sales, there isn't a safe way to guarantee how much you will be getting month to month. of $41 million, $36 million has been spent. To me this looks like they are taking action to keep the budget balanced instead of going into massive debt.

2. He is a Washington outsider. In what convoluted definition is a Vermont governor an insider? And if he wants to win and needs an experienced hand to help him win, where in the name of all that is holy do you expect him to turn?

3. Trippi was asked to step down because he has not generated wins. Sorry, that is how the game is played. Trippi was not blamed for the scream. Dean supporters don't blame Trippi for the scream. Dean didn't blame Trippi for the scream. The only people who are making this claim are people who prefer rumor mongering over facts.

[NJCher]

7. faulty analogy

In item 1, campaign contributions are optional but taxes are not. No comparison.

In item 2, at some point a campaign has to move beyond the Internet.

Item 3 adding Neal (sp?) and Trippi's leaving are not necessarily a cause/effect relationship.


Cher

[quinnox]

8. I think the main problem with Dean

is he was simply not ready for prime time. A small state politics is a heck of a lot different than the big leagues of national presidential politics. This was shown in his long line of verbal blunders, it almost as if he wanted to keep sticking his foot in his mouth. I think it was a lot of inexperience, and trying to move too far, too fast from double A ball to the major leagues.

[Hep]

9. Uh, whatev!

Dean not ready for primetime? Nope. Seems more like people are afraid of their boat being rocked. Do work? Become responsible in my party? Nah, I'd rather just vote for Kerry.

[seaglass]

12. Yes, he even mentioned after the Confederate flag

debacle at the Boston debate that he speaks before he thinks. It's one thing to be bold about what one says and it is quite another to be thoughtless.

[Hep]

15. Nothing thoughtless about it

The only place where thoughtlessness has entered into it is in the interpretation by his opponents and the press.

But then, Kerry and Edwards and the lot have no problem with thepress's clowning when it serves them. All the more reason we should avoid them like the plague.

[seaglass]

18. Thoughtless in that he wasn't thinking about what he said

before he said it and kept arguing it. He admitted it himself.

[Hep]

26. Wrong

I know the history of this will be lost forever, but allow me to keep it alive for one more day.

Dean made the comment hundreds of times. And when he did, people went nuts. The GOOD kind of nuts. Audiences comprised of a majority of black people LOVED it. It wasn't until much farther down the road that anyone's panties got up in a bunch. Because that was when Dean showed momentum.

They jumped on it, and since BAD news is better than GOOD news, this time it stuck.

It was no less disingenuous and ham fisted than any of the press's other tactics. The same goes for Dean's opponents.

Dean should never have apologized for it. But if he felt it was important, than I support that.

[seaglass]

28. It was the insinuation that poor people, specifically

those living in trailer parks were Confederate-flag waving racists.

He apologized to Edwards for it after having a long talk with Jimmy Carter.

[brainshrub]

10. Response:

1) He talks about balanced budgets, but his campaign can't even do that.

He isn't out of money, and all candidate's war-chests fluctuate wildly during a campaign.
I think it's more important to note that the average Dean contribution is about $55, as opposed to other candidates who get most of their funding from the same corporate teat that Bush does.
Dean has proven he's a person capable of balancing a state budget. You can't take that away from him.

2) He talks about being a Washington outsider, and he just hired one of the biggest insiders in Washington to run his campaign.

Technically Trippi is still on the campaign. Dean asked Joe to step aside, but Mr. Trippi's company is still running the campaign.
Now that Dean is no longer a dark-horse candidate, it makes sense to hire someone to run a more main-stream campaign.

3) Firing his campaign manager after the "scream." Yeah, let's blame the manager for that.

See my response to your comment #2. There is no ill-will between Trippi & Dean.

This guy reminds me of the excuse-making, prima-donna football player that Budwieser beer is highlighting in some current commercials. All deja Bush* to me.

I don't get it. Can you give an example as why you think this?

I'm looking for a leader who can demonstrate leadership under fire. Not another whimpy excuse maker.

You should start watching the debates. Dean may be a lot of things, but he isn't an excuse-maker.

[On the Road]

11. Flamebait

All these things are bad PR. Period.

1) Unlike any of the other candidates, he has balanced budgets for many years. Did Kerry, Edwards, or Clark ever balance a government budget? Did Bush?

2) The problem with his turning to a DC insider is that it's too late, not that it didn't happen. You need both sets of skills to win in November. Al Gore came from 18 points back in the polls running as a quasi-outsider with the message "I will fight for you."

3) Trippi did not want want to play second fiddle. He was not fired. He clearly did not have the abilities to serve Dean well in many areas that a campaign manager should.

By and large, Dean has responded quickly and appropriately, and I haven't heard him utter one excuse. Quite the opposite -- I've been impressed with his response to setbacks.

[liberalnurse]

16. Yes, this thread was intended to be flamebait.

Like this audience will be influenced .......In a way it does reinforce my committment to vote Dean and no one else...not even in the GE.....

I'll write Dean in.....

[D G]

19. I don't support Dean, but I recognize flamebait

and the original post definitely qualifies. I don't buy any of those three arguments (although I don't see Dean as the "ultimate outsider" either)

However, I don't see how Dean is so great that he is the ONLY qualified Democratic presidential candidate. Is that what you're saying?

Edited for clarification.

[liberalnurse]

24. No, I do not like it that Kerry is being forced down our throats.....

If thats the candidate, then I will not vote for Kerry. I'm not that much of a blind team player. ABBK is my new motto.

I would go Edwards.....Clark supporters have been a real turn-off which can be haunting when it comes time to vote. I asked for a generalized apology once, no one would so....okay....

[D G]

29. Well, is this election about you being happy

Or is it about getting Bush out of office as one of many ways to turn our country around?

I'm sorry to be harsh, but I just see a bigger picture here.

[liberalnurse]

30. The hateful behavior of the DLC will not be

reinforced by me.....I'll look at the other candidates if they get the nomination but Kerry is not ever going to get my vote. I will not comply. The DLC needs to look at their behavior.

[RetroLounge]

14. Three huge problems with your argument

1) poop

2) poop

3) poop

But welcome to the DU bash-dean all day circle jerk...

[Ramsey]

17. All incorrect

1).Where is the evidence that the campaign didn't balance their budget. They spent the money donated for campaigning on... wait for it... campaigning!!

2). Statement from Neel: "You may have read that I am the “ultimate Washington insider”, a lobbyist, and so on. After nearly 20 years in public service I worked for a few years in the private sector as an advocate for local telephone companies, but never lobbied the White House on their issues. That period gave me the opportunity to reconnect with my family (I coached my sons’ little league teams for nine years) and catch my breath after the roller coaster time in the Clinton-Gore White House. But I really missed the sense of mission and passion of presidential politics."

3). He didn't fire Trippi. He brought in Neel (who was already consulting for the campaign) and Trippi resigned as campaign manager.

If you are going to condemn someone, at least have your facts straight.

[TLM]

21. Three huge problems with misrepresentations...

"1) He talks about balanced budgets, but his campaign can't even do that."

The campaign is not in debt, so this is a clearly baseless attack.

The concerns about money are based on projections... after paying off all their expected bills, they'll have 5-7 million left depending on the rate at which money is coming in.


"2) He talks about being a Washington outsider, and he just hired one of the biggest insiders in Washington to runn his campaign."

Yeah and what's wrong with an outsider hiring a guide? We saw well in Iowa how the insiders are working to shut out the grassroots and outsiders. It is a good idea to get someone on your team who knows the game and can really make use of the organization more effectively.


"3) Firing his campaign manager after the "scream." Yeah, let's blame the manager for that."

Once again, Trippi was NOT fired. When Dean brought in this new guy to do some of the things that Trippi wasn't great at... Trippi is fantastic at motivation and inspiration and bringing people into the process, but once they are there and ready to help out, Trippi's skills at making use of all those folks effectively is lacking... so Dean wanted to bring in someone who really knows the system and the best ways for this organization to be effective in a system controlled in large part by insiders who want Dean out of the picture.

Trippi refused to share the leadership role in the campaign and walked. He felt he was being replaced, and really he was simply being supplemented, and Dean said he would welcome Trippi back.


SO got anymore uninformed bullshit attacks to lob at Dean?

[Skip Intro]

22. Weakest. Attack. Ever.

Why?

:eyes:

[HuckleB]

23. Nice spin, creating "problems" where none exist.

Sheesh.

[onecitizen]

25. Don't support him then.........

no one's twisting your arm. Simple as that.

[ibegurpard]

27. Balanced budgets

Mean that your income is able to cover your expenses. Have you had access to the Dean campaign's books? I think not. You have no basis to speculate about this other than internet rumors and half-truths.