Kerry is a member of the DLC. Discuss

[LynneSin]

Just throwing it back out there on the table for discussion since we're ready to string up the DLC by their toenails but yet we love and rally around Kerry

http://www.ndol.org/new_dem_dir_action.cfm
Max Baucus, U.S. Senator, MT
Evan Bayh, U.S. Senator, IN
Maria Cantwell, U.S. Senator, WA
Tom Carper, U.S. Senator, DE
Hillary Clinton, U.S. Senator, NY
Kent Conrad, U.S. Senator, ND
Byron Dorgan, U.S. Senator, ND
Dianne Feinstein, U.S. Senator, CA
Tim Johnson, U.S. Senator, SD
John Kerry, U.S. Senator, MA
Herb Kohl, U.S. Senator, WI
Mary Landrieu, U.S. Senator, LA
Joe Lieberman, U.S. Senator, CT
Blanche Lincoln, U.S. Senator, AR
Bill Nelson, U.S. Senator, FL
Ben Nelson, U.S. Senator, NE
Mark Pryor, U.S. Senator, AR
Debbie Stabenow, U.S. Senator, MI

[400Years]

1. We saw how well that worked out didn't we

"Look at me, I'm almost a republican."

The Senate is practically a corporate lobbying front anyway.

[LynneSin]

4. That I would pretty much have to agree with

The problem isn't the DLC, the problem is the corporations buying our politicians. Hell at least with the DLC I know where they stand

[ClintonTyree]

10. I have to agree with you there.........

the only difference between the DLC and the Republicans is their asking price. The DLC whores themselves out for a lot less than the Republicans would ever consider doing.

[LynneSin]

26. But the non-DLCers whore themselves out too

I mean we have these 550+ men & women elected to represent us in DC and in you check the labels on their backs they're all bought out by someone. Yes there are a few rare exceptions - Jon Corzine bought out himself by putting up $60mil of his own money for a senate seat. But we're all bought whether it's the corporations or the special interest groups including the liberal ones that we support

[Toots]

128. How much PAC money did Kerry accept?

How about Kucinich, how much is he in their debt for?

[wyldwolf]

53. yeah, the most votes for a Democratic presidential candidate ever

[400Years]

59. newsflash: HE LOST!

Elections aint a game of horseshoes.

[wyldwolf]

64. yes he did. Imagine had the candidate been, oh, Kucinich?

Do you have any evidence to suggest someone further left than Kerry would have won? No.

[LWolf]

114. No.

Of course, the reverse can be said, as well.

I believe, based on past record, that Kucinich would have stood and delivered on the issue of fraudulent vote counts, and I believe that would have been better for the U.S. than the quick concession we got.

[LWolf]

115. Delete n/t

[wisteria]

120. Good points. Kerry was not a repub like candidate- all you had

to do was listen to him speak. And his loss had nothing to do with this crap about him being a Repub lite.

[karynnj]

77. Kerry was clearly to the left of the primary field

Kuchinich is farther (although he wasn't in the past). Dean was a moderate DLC governor, Edwards was far more conservative. Clark voted for Reagan and Nixon. Gephardt was less liberal. (So did you want Sharpton or Braun?)

There is no way Kerry is anywhere near Republican which may explain the incredible praise that Kennedy has given him.

[Mass]

2. Kill him - He deserves him

:sarcasm:

BTW, the web page you are listing is no more active. It has been inactive for more than one month.

Does anybody know why?

BTW, Spitzer is also DLC/

[LynneSin]

6. I was wondering that - I had to go to the DU archives to find the link

I started a thread about 2 months ago getting pissy once again of people calling Joe Biden a DLCer (he isn't, but his counterpart in DE Tom Carper is).

I'm thinking that democrats are not NOT wanting to be listed like that because of the negative connotations associated with DLC. But Kerry is DLC, he's just kinda like the guy who never gets involved with the work but shows up for the Happy Hours every once in awhile

[Mass]

12. He has been pretty much absent of all DLC functions in 2005,

2003, ...

He is also the guy that the DLC leaders would not quote for anything. So, he was in the list, but I doubt he is very representative of what the DLC is. Just have a look at whose plans for Iraq are quoted on the website. and who From listed as DLC potential 2008 runners. This tells you more than anything.

[FreedomAngel82]

58. Interesting

Do they still list him on the site? I wish Warner would leave them too. I really like him.

[karynnj]

83. Warner's policies and position on the war fit the DLC

[wisteria]

121. You are absolutely correct and they are promoting him- not Kerry! n/t

[blm]

25. Maybe because From doesn't LIKE Kerry for staying too far left for his

taste?

No secret that From loathes Kerry and has for years.

BTW.....there is no forum more full of hateful mischaracterizations about Kerry than DU, except Free Republic, so why on earth would you use Kerry to make a point about the DLC?

[LynneSin]

29. opening peoples eyes I suppose

and if From doesn't like Kerry why doesn't he give Kerry the boot

:shrug:

From is an asshole and if the DLC wants any chance of winning their ways back into progressive/liberal hearts they need to get rid of him.

The whole topic of the thread was to start the discussion and see what people think. People say "DLC is Bad" and "We Love Kerry" almost in the same breath but yet those two statements contradict themselves since Kerry is DLC.

Sometimes I just want to see if I can make a few heads explode :shrug:

[blm]

34. Except nobody says that. DLC paints Kerry as too far left, and some on

the left complain that Kerry is too far right, completely ignorant of his actual twenty year record.

People on both sides are practicing ignoramuses.

[LynneSin]

36. and maybe that's what we'll open their eyes to see

It really comes down to the voting record doesn't it?

[karynnj]

84. Has anyone been kicked out?

Why would they kick him out - Kerry obviously joined to have a seat at the table - someone has to be the leftmost member of the DLC. What I don't get is that the favorites can be DLC and have moderate positions - like Warner, Edwards or Dean - and they don't get the flack Kerry does.

[flpoljunkie]

102. Kerry joined DLC in 2000. From says "our candidates" are Clinton, Vilsack,

Warner and Bayh in that order--no mention of any John Kerry or any of our other potential candidates--Edwards or Feingold.

[karynnj]

82. I would bet the RW only wishes this were true

This was a right wing talking point. Kerry, when discussed in 2000 as a possible running mate was called a policy wonk and a workaholic. A funny article in the Washington Post on the top 10 DC batelors in the very early 90s - included Kerry (as the heart throb of the left) but then mentioned he was always in MA every weekend and typically worked till midnight when he was in DC.

The RW has tried to smear Kerry in the 70s when he was protesting VN, in the 80s when he fought them on the Contras, and in the early 90s when he uncovered BCCI, a bank used by the terrorist that had bought off people in both parties. On BCCI, Kerry took it beyond his Senate committee (ignoring even Jackie Onassis asking him to drop it), to the justice department then to Morganthau in NYC.

If you really want to see if he is doing anything - pull up the coverage on the small business committee, the Senate Foreign Relations committee or the Finance committee - Kerry is usually one of the best prepared and an unusually good questioner. Before he ran, he was always considered a thoughtful well spoken Senator.

[TayTay]

3. I hear he's also a Sagittarius

Discuss. (Geez, what some people won't try to slip past the watchdog groups is just beyond me.)

[HillDem]

5. DLC. It's just 3 letters. Get over it

So are Bill Clinton and Al Gore.

[LynneSin]

8. Is Gore a part of it?

I didn't think he was DLC, but Clinton was what brought DLC to the forefront of politics

[Mass]

13. He was. I dont think he is now, but he was part of the founders of the

DLC.

[FreedomAngel82]

62. He was?

Wow. So why isn't he involved if he was a founder of the group? Maybe he didn't like some things? Gore has followed corruption in politics so maybe he didn't like big money.

[karynnj]

88. I think they list only people in office

that's why B.Clinton, Edwards, Gore and Dean aren't there. Kerry has been far more involved on corruption than Gore was. From BCCI to working on campaign finance reform with Wellstone.

[liberalpragmatist]

116. Gore was a founder along with Gephardt

I don't think Gore is closely associated with the group anymore. Gephardt was an early founder of the group but broke with them over trade.

The thing is that in the past decade, as the DLC was ascendant in the party, a lot of Democratic office-holders attended meetings and things and were considered members, regardless of ideology. Hence, being "DLC" isn't actually that big an indicator of someone's views.

[HillDem]

21. Gore was DLC

He has gone further to the left since 2000 though.

[FreedomAngel82]

73. Yes on going more left

I think he started out pretty conservative/moderate in the Senate but changed over the years. He's always been against corruption though from when he was a journalist following local Tennessee politics. Gore is a great example of someone who can have friends and allies who are different than him but stay focused on what he wants to get done etc.

[karynnj]

86. He was even in their leadership which Kerry never was

[Kahuna]

112. Gore was one of the founders.

That's what I heard, anyway. :shrug: I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

[FreedomAngel82]

61. Gore isn't now

I don't know if he was but he isn't now. He isn't listed on their site I don't think.

[karynnj]

89. He's not in office

[Island Blue]

81. Mark Warner is major DLC from what I understand.

Perhaps we should discuss that too while we're at it. John Kerry is also wicked tall by the way.

[HillDem]

87. DLC status for a governor doesn't mean that much

Governors don't vote on trade bills, or corporate welfare, etc.

[FreedomAngel82]

134. Warner is a moderate and Kerry is pretty progressive

Their respective records speak for themselves.

[saracat]

7. It's the voting record stupid! (Not you just a paraphrase on the

expression) .Kerry's voting record speaks for itself. I don't think much of the basic precepts of the DLC but Kerry is one of the most liberal members of the Senate. I don't care what he belongs to. Kerry represents MY interests where few of the others do.
I see no evidence whatsoever that Kerry endorses the somewhat anachronistic views of the DLC.

[LynneSin]

11. This is the stuff I was hoping would get posted

We need to look at the candidate as a whole and not these special interest groups. Reid & Dorgan (Minority Leader & Whip) are not DLC. It's all relevant stupid (Not you just a paraphrase :P )

[Mass]

19. Dorgan is DLC and is not the Whip- Durbin is the Whip.

[LynneSin]

22. I stand corrected

I meant Durbin, not sure why I was thinking Dorgan. I knew it was a six letter word that started with "D" and ended with "N" and represented a state somewhere near the Canadian border. I almost considered saying Dayton :crazy:

[FreedomAngel82]

63. Exactly!

That's what I do. I look at the person and their actions. I could care less about the group they're affiliated with. If they get caught doing something wrong (like Cunningham or DeLay) it's because of their own individual actions. Warner is another great DLCer and he seems to be pretty good.

[blm]

9. Kerry's the furthest LEFT of the DLC and further left than many nonDLC,

but WHY is this even a matter of discussion right now?

Is there another thread that this is being discussed?

[LynneSin]

16. I'm just doing a public service announcement about the DLC

If you notice, my original post really didn't contain much matter to discuss other that Kerry was a member. What I hope is that people take a look at voting records and not just blame everything on the DLC.

Folks here have a tendency to label people "DLC" simply because they don't like the way they voted on 1 or 2 issues. They do it all the time with Joe Biden and yet Biden has never been a member of the DLC. (I"m from Delaware, I know this stuff. Carper is the DLC, hell he's 2nd in command).

[Old and In the Way]

35. Plus he's Skull and Bones, blm.

That puts him to the right of Pinochet.

Are we suppoised to start salivating when the abbreviation "DLC" is posted?

[IndianaGreen]

90. and so was peace activist Rev. William Sloane Coffin

one of the heroes of the Vietnam antiwar movement, was also a Bonesman:



Rev. William Sloane Coffin, Jr. (born June 1, 1924) is a liberal clergyman and long-time peace activist with international stature. He was a CIA agent, and later chaplain of Yale University, where the influence of Reinhold Niebuhr's social philosophy led him to become a leader in the civil-rights and peace movements of the 1960s and 1970s. He went on to serve as Senior Minister at the Riverside Church in New York City, and President of SANE/Freeze (now Peace Action), the nation's largest peace and justice group, and has prominently opposed U.S. military intervention from the Vietnam War to the Iraq War.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Sloane_Coffin

The moral of the story: Being a Bonesman comes with privilege and class. It buys a person connections that will prove useful in the future. The issue is what does that person do with the influence that was gained through an accident of birth and class. In the case of George W. Bush, there aren't enough words to describe what a useless human being he has been. The same cannot be said about all Bonesmen, as the short bio about Wm Sloane Coffin illustrates.

[karynnj]

94. I guess this is why Kennedy has showered him with praise

There is no US politician to th eright of Pinochet - certainly not one who votes with Kennedy 95% of the time. Massachusetts wouldn't have voted him in once much less 4 times. (Oh, the first time he ran - he and Rep. Shannon were called the liberal twins by the media, because they both had very similar liberal positions.)

[MrBenchley]

14. Let's also mention Rush Holt, Tim Kaine, Christine Gregoire....

Anyone who has a problem with Rush Holt is gonna have a problem with me....

By the way, progressive Democrats have their own group that's just like the DLC.....and not even the progressives here give a crap about it.

[LynneSin]

20. I don't like Rush Holt because he has the first name as another Rush

and you know what that means. He probably is doctor shopping right now for more hillbilly herion while badmouthing the ACLU on the public airwaves even though the ACLU is saving his ass.

If anything, that's the kind of association I think we do with the DLC

[MrBenchley]

24. LOL!

Adn what does Limbaugh do when he gets those pills? He takes HOLT of them....

It's all falling into place now.

[LynneSin]

27. Damnit, I"m going to spend all my time & money getting rid of Holt

the truth has now been exposed!!

:sarcasm:

(note - I won't even bother helping get rid of Lieberman. Waste of time when we have targets like Rick Santorum or Jim Talent that we could get out of office)

[MrBenchley]

28. Love to kick Talent out on his ass...also Hostettler

the idiot from Indiana who took his gun on a plane...

There's so many Republicans who deserve to go back into the private sector in November 2006.

[karynnj]

65. Brilliant reason - so no matter what Holt does he's

doomed because of his name. As a NJ resident I'm proud that he's a congressman.

[MrBenchley]

80. Lynnesin was joking...as was I...

[bemildred]

15. You know, if Big Dog had been impeached AND convicted, then Gore

would have been president. You know, I just thought of that for some reason.

[The Magistrate]

103. You Are A Ruthless And Subtle Fellow, My Friend

That is what makes you a joy to know....

It seems to me that, regardless of what everyone claims the numbers show, if Vice-President Gore had cling to our Bill like a long-lost brother, and campaigned arm and arm with him, the outcome of the 2000 election would have been decisively in our favor. Some people just have the gift, and President Clinton is one of those....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[bemildred]

132. Reading history excites my cynical imagination to a fever pitch.

;-)

Another thread got me to thinking why it is that we have had such a string of dolts for President, and I realized that, of course, it is because a true charismatic leader would be a unambiguous threat to the existing order, e.g. Mr. Clinton, hence the continous snapping at his heels during his term. It was a lucky thing that his ambitions were as modest as they proved to be, he could have been much more disruptive.

"Happy Holidays!" Sir.

[rainy]

17. That's been his problem all along. He sold out.

Now we are left with someone who has lost his passion. He no longer can make passionate speeches. He has to drone on and on and be sure not to offend those Corporate donors.

Compare the 27 year old on the senate floor to today's Kerry. What a difference money and corruption can make.

I still like Kerry, I think the real Kerry is still hiding in there, but, during the election I had no excitement about him. I was in favor of Dean of course.

[blm]

32. Then why did Kerry help craft Kyoto which corporations were against?

Why did Kerry craft Clean Elections bill with Wellstone that corporations were against?

How did Kerry rack up the best environmental record of all the candidates? Isn't that odd for a corporate whore?

How did Kerry investigate and expose financial industry corruption of BCCI mostly ON HIS OWN if he was such a corporate whore?


I think YOU just made an assumption about Kerry based on false characterizations. Especially, since it is well known that Dean was the most probusiness of all the candidates, and was the favorite Democrat of the probusiness CATO group for years while governor. Dean would be the first to say that he was the true centrist of all the candidates on the probusiness front.

[rainy]

37. Why did Kerry support the illegal ivasion of Iraq?

He sold out, all for political gain. Sold his soul to the devil as did all the rest. People died.

[blm]

41. That's baloney - you bought the spin that IWR is to blame for invasion

when the simple fact is that IWR would have PREVENTED War if administered by any other president.

And we were talking about CORPORATISM - You put Kerry ON the hook as a corporate whore when his record shows otherwise and others get let OFF despite their actual records?

[rainy]

43. you are right, He is not a sell out regarding corporatism

but he absolutely knew what he was voting for. The senators thought at the time the issues would move back to domestic if they just got the Iraqi War vote behind them. Plus they thought they might suffer politically with a no vote. So what if people die, got to win the next American election you know.

[FreedomAngel82]

67. How do you know that?

There are people who were duped just like they were.

[rainy]

98. I watched them debate it on the floor, I listened to Robert

Byrd BEG them not to vote for war. He warned them that they were just trying to change the subject to domestic issues and he said they would regret the vote for war. No one listened. He stood on the floor for 10 hrs. 85 years old. Remember all those letters we sent him? Remember how disillusioned we felt watching the whole process? Remember how Alice in Wonderland it felt until Byrd got up to speak? He told them they were giving up their power to ONE MAN. Byrd said it was not constitutional. They, Kerry included would not listen. Had to cover their asses for the next election.

[The Magistrate]

105. As A Matter Of Curiousity, Ma'am

Do you consider the winning of elections a matter of no importance?

It is certainly possible to argue that the strategic calculation was faulty in this case, but the motive behind it certainly seems sensible enough to me, and the claim that it means "supporting the war" in any meaningful sense rather strained....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[FreedomAngel82]

135. We sent him?

Sorry I wasn't political until last fall. So I don't remember anything you said. I'm still new to DU compared to other people here.

[Dr Ron]

66. He did not support the invasion

Kerry spoke out against going to war multiple times before the war, and called for regime change in the United States in protest at the onset of the war.

[rainy]

100. read post 99

[karynnj]

96. He didn't support the invasion

He spoke out before in began. Dean made the vote a litmus test which now works to Bush's advantage. If you compare Kerry and Dean comments at similar times - there was little difference.

If the IWR failed, we likely would have been at war 4 months earlier without the inspectors ever having been there and without a new UN resolution.

[rainy]

99. no matter how you spin it Kerry voted for WAR! to cover his

political ass.

[blm]

104. Why would he do that for the FIRST TIME EVER? He's used to having his ass

uncovered - especially as he racked up an unmatched record of uncovering government corruption over the last 35 years of his public service.

[Dr Ron]

107. That's not why he voted for it

Kerry has explained his vote quite clearly, but there are still some who dwell on the vote and won't listen to anything.

While I don't agree with him on the vote, and even he has acknowledged it was a mistake, I can respect his reasons. Itis possible, as many of his supporters do, to disagree with the vote but also realize he opposed the war.

[Old and In the Way]

38. "What a difference money and corruption can make. "

Would you like to enlighten us further with evidence to support that statement?

[rainy]

101. he used to speak so beautifully and from the heart

I believe money and power changed his ability to speak passionately and he, like most of the rest of the politicians, now have to be fake to get votes. Unfortunately that is the lot of politicians these days. None can speak honestly and expect to win.

[Old and In the Way]

133. No, I could care less about passionate speaking or your

subjective opinion on his voting record. I'm interested in your comment of Kerry's corruption. Please enlighten us with facts on that.

[Rich Hunt]

18. LOL n/t

[LittleClarkie]

23. He is not their favorite son, let's put it that way

From does not include him when he talks about 2008 DLCers or DLCers with Iraq plans.

I suspect he used them for the campaign for their organizational skills, but he is too liberal for them and their agenda.

That's my take.

[LynneSin]

30. Like I said, he's the guy in the club who avoids the meetings but...

...hangs out at the occasional happy hours.

:D

[emulatorloo]

52. More like in my town where everybody joins the Rotary Club

because thats what yr "supposed" to do. But they say the lunches are delicious.

[Douglas Carpenter]

31. take a look at his record in the Senate

This is based on ratings from a wide variety of interest groups. Sen. Kerry did miss a number of votes in 2004 due to campaigning for the Presidency -- when it was clear that the numbers for 2004 were abnormally lower than previous years I also reported his ratings for 2003. To give in perspective I contrasted his record with that of Sen. John McCain.

This is courtesy of project vote smart - link:

http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=S0421103
_____________________

"2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 33 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 0 percent in 2004.
_________________________________

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the Peace Action 13 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Peace Action 13 percent in 2004.
______________________________________

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the Friends Committee on National Legislation 100 percent in 2004

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Friends Committee on National Legislation 0 percent in 2004.
____________________________________________________

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 0 percent in 2004.
__________________

2003-2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 22 percent in 2003-2004.
__________________________

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 33 percent in 2004.
_________________________


2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 50 percent in 2004. 2003 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 102 percent in 2003.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 9 percent in 2004.
__________________________

2003-2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the National Education Association 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Education Association 35 percent in 2003-2004.
______________________

2003-2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 100 percent in 2003-2004

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 25 percent in 2003-2004.
_____________________________________

2003-2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2003-2004

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 14 percent in 2003-2004.
_____________________________

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 0 percent in 2004.
__________________________

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the Family Research Council 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Family Research Council 67 percent in 2004.
___________________________

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 83 percent in 2004.
_____________________________

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 0 percent in 2004

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 72 percent in 2004.
____________________________

2003-2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the Concerned Women for America 14 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Concerned Women for America 100 percent in 2003-2004."

[Island Blue]

85. Thanks for that info DC

That's a great way to do a quick comparison.

[ProSense]

91. Good stuff! Thanks! n/t

[Warpy]

33. The main reason I voted for Kerry

was his role in trying to bust BCCI. Shut down by a nervous Congress and a hostile Bush family, he did an end run around the Feds and gave his information to state attorney generals.

Yeah, I knew he was procorporate and anti labor. I also knew he was an able prosecutor who would be interested in following the slime trail of bribery and corruption all the way through the GOP in government and outside it. I still think he was the right man at the right time, even though I disagree with his rich man's economic policies.

There is no way on earth I'd have voted for another DLC candidate, though, sorry.

I'm just not going to vote for Repuglicans any more.

[emulatorloo]

39. look at the voting record - he is not a "Repuglican"

That is simply a ridiculous assertion

Senate lifetime voting records:

http://www.adaction.org/sen.htm

Kerry 92
Kennedy 90
Feingold 98
Boxer 96

Now, for some republicans
McCain 9
Hutcinson 4
Frist 3


ADA's homepage, so you can see where they are coming from

http://www.adaction.org/

[blm]

44. Kerry went AGAINST corporations when he helped craft Kyoto Protocol

for ten years.

Kerry went AGAINST corporations when he and Wellstone wrote the Clean Elections bill.

Kerry racked up the best environmental record of all the candidates, even Kucinich.

Kerry was going to implement a program where at least 1/3 of all government projects went to SMALL BUSINESSES instead of the large corporations favored by BushInc.


Kerry spilled the beans that BushInc was giving out SBA budget dollars to large corporations who didn't qualify.


Whoever told you that Kerry was procorporations and antilabor LIED to you BIGTIME.

[Douglas Carpenter]

46. anti-labor?

from vote smart link:

"http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0421103&type=category&category=Labor&go.x=9&go.y=9

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the American Postal Workers Union 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 50 percent in 2004. 2003 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 102 percent in 2003

2004 On the votes that the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers considered to be the most important in 2004, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2004 On the votes that the Service Employees International Union considered to be the most important in 2004, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the Communications Workers of America 100 percent in 2004."

[FreedomAngel82]

69. You think every DLCer is like Hillary?

Wow, your head is far up your ass than.

[IndianaGreen]

95. I think Hillary is in a category all of her own

She is the Lucretia Borgia of Democratic politics!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

40. That's why he was too cautious in his campaign

and spoke in vague generalities on the campaign trail while leaving the specifics in wordy position papers on his website.

[emulatorloo]

42. did you see a Kerry Speech on CSPAN or in person?

or just on the cable channels, who cut out the best stuff, and showed the worst stuff (while cutting Bush's worst stuff and showing his best stuff)

In addition to lots of red meat stuff, Kerry gave a fair number of policy speeches that didn't see the light of TV news.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

47. I saw him in person twice in Minneapolis

Sorry folks, he was inspiring ONLY as an alternative to Bush, not in his own right.

This was not enough to convince the masses who don't know what we know about Bush. A better campaigner would have brought about a landslide comparable to that in 1964.

[LynneSin]

50. Very good point there

We keep thinking that the voters are only the people who are active in online communties & blogspheres. We are truly in the minority still. Millions of people across the globe couldn't see a difference between the candidates and the media did a damn good job of painting Kerry as a lackluster candidate. We need someone who has so much freaking charisma that even the TV can't 'dumb em down'

[emulatorloo]

54. debates debates debates

Kerry did great when presented directly to voters w/o the media filter. . .but then it was back to isntpresidentbushpopular and johnkerryjustdoesnotconnect

[karynnj]

74. There is NO ONE who with little or no media can

be seen as charismtic unless they already have that designation. If you watch CSPAN, Kerry is easily one of the most charismatic members. He has a genuinely interesting biography and has been involved in an amazing number of things.

The media also said Kerry was unlikeable - yet since the election local news wherever he's appeared has noted that he was relaxed, funny, and seemed very nice - which oddly is how he appearedon C-SPAN. The media was biased they had to portray Kerry as unlikeable and boring, because they knew that he would blow Bush away in the debates.

Remember how the media covered the Clinton rallies at the end of his campaign - Clinton was shown smiling and exuberant, while Bush Sr was muttering about Bozo and Ozone man. Kerry BROKE ALL records in size of crowds at the end of his campaign and from the CSPAN footage, he was absolutely great. But what did you see on TV - 5 minutes unfiltered of Bush's canned presentation before a hand picked crowd and maybe a minute of the Kerry rally in the background with the volume low as a talking head described what he said about Bush.

[FreedomAngel82]

70. Says you

Only in your opinion.

[blm]

45. He called them ROBBER BARONS, fer chrissakes.

.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

48. That means nothing to someone who don't know history,

as most people don't, sad to say.

Besides, he needed to go beyond criticizing Bush and convince Middle America that he understood their problems and would have a couple of specific ways to fix them.

[karynnj]

76. I think the words Robber barrons convey at least a sense

of what he is saying and I believe that anyone who passed high school history knows it.

[Totally Committed]

49. No one from the DLC will ever get my vote again...

He may not be "Repuglican", but he is DLC, and look where that got us last election.

Never again. Never ever again. As long as he's tied to the DLC, and the money they back him with, he will be forced to emulate their gutless ways.

I voted against Bush by voting for Kerry last time out. Note to Democratic Party: That will never happen again. Give me a candidate to vote for enthusiastically or you lose my vote. No DLC candidate need apply, thank you.

TC

[LynneSin]

55. Awesome - Enjoy republican rule

I mean, we're doing such a great job "Teaching em a lesson" by not voting for them.

When push comes to shove I will vote for all democrats and even those who align with the DLC (Heck, I'll be voting for Carper and he's DLC leadership).

Primaries is our time to not vote for DLC. Run other candidates against the DLC ones. But when the primaries are overwith then we need to focus on the main enemy which is the Republican party

[Totally Committed]

92. If a DLC candidate runs against a Republican, no matter who wins...

a Republican will be in office. They might as well be Republicans, fercripessake! Read their positions on the issues. Look who supports their candidates with $$$.

If all you care about is a "D" after the winner's name, then, by all means, vote DLC. But, if you care that a Democrat with positions on issues that matter to the common person, or who will care about the least among us before Corporations, then, you will see the effing distinction.

TC

[LynneSin]

108. Get your fricking head out of the hole and think about what you said

if a Democrat wins even a DLC democrat they vote for democratic leadership. They also make up a democratic majority.

Now let me take a stab in the dark about you - I'm guessing you don't like the war that much and would like to see the soldiers come home. I'm also guessing you'd like to open impeachment hearings in order to finally open all these charges against Bush.

Guess what, last time I check is if there are more "R" than "D" then these things will NEVER happen.

Don't think of voting for DLC candidates as supporting them but supporting people like Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi who would be our majority leaders and have both stated they want a timetable to bring home our solders. Hell Nancy got right on board with Rep Murtha for withdrawel.

Only a dumbass would help the republicans keep majority and not have a clue that sometimes we'll take that "D" if it means we have the leadership, the committees (Remember how Pat Leahy's Judiciary committee stopped all those far right-wing judicial nominees) and the ability to control the flow of legislation to the floor.

But you're right - none of that is important. Let's stick to our gun, vote out democrats we don't like and leave our soldiers to rot forever in Iraq.

[Guaranteed]

124. Unfortunately, DLC candidates are repeated, proven losers

with the exception of Bill Clinton, who, of course, can't run.

[incapsulated]

51. He keeps bad company

There are only a few on that list that don't vote in ways that are to the right of the rest of the party.

He should leave the DLC.

[jonnyblitz]

56. I never loved and rallied around kerry. I held my nose and voted,

like many others I know.

[LynneSin]

60. I didn't help campaign at first but at the end I knew it had to be done

but I was holding my nose all throughout the campaigning.

But I also felt that I worked hard to support Howard Dean and when he lost the primaries then at least I knew I did my job to bring a better candidate to the table!

[FreedomAngel82]

57. Where it concerns individual people and the DLC

I go on personal actions and records. Not all of them are like Hillary and Lieberman. I like Kerry and Warner for example. Kerry is pretty progressive and has done so much for us such as with BCCI and Iran/Contra.

[GRLMGC]

68. Who cares?

I'm not all paranoid about the DLC which I view as merely one group out of many in the Democratic party. I still support Kerry and I really couldn't care less that he is technically a part of the DLC

[FreedomAngel82]

72. And the democrats are a huge tent

That's one thing I love about us is we're a huge tent from conservative to liberal. Not every democrat is liberal but we all like to progress. We just have different ways of getting there. Only people I don't like in the DLC that I know of is Hillary (too republican and corporatation's) and Lieberman for obvious reason's. For example Warner did great things in Virginia. I think he could do really well in 2008 and I think he is going to run. Not every democrat is a hard core liberal like myself. I like that about us. We may argue and have huge fights but at least I can still be myself and have my potitions and people will listen to me without calling me name's (for the most part).

[Dr Ron]

71. More variety than I'd expect

This list, if current and accurate, sure shows a considerable range in the party. (Of course those are big ifs). There are a number of people here, including Kerry, who are considerably more liberal than the DLC's reputation (but I'm not sure that they really have current involvement in the DLC--any more than Dean who used to be a big favorite of theirs).

If anything, this list means that we must look at the individual's record and not pay as much attention to the DLC label.

[FreedomAngel82]

75. Exactly

I think the DLC is just another group like Dean's DFA group. Big name democrats are with them and they probably agree on some things. Who someone associates with shouldn't be why or why not you don't vote for someone. Look at the record and the other people's records. There are many democrats to choose from and we can all have people we support. I love that! The republicans they're all just the same which is boring.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

110. Range? More like a bunch of clones.

With the possible exception of... Kerry.

[LittleClarkie]

111. He fits in there the way he used to fit in at boy's school

One of these things is not like the other... one of these things just doesn't belong...

[ProSense]

78. Kerry! n/t

[politicasista]

79. Look at the record not the affiliation

I don't like DLC either, but posts like this don't help the Democratic Party.

[ladjf]

93. If those DLC turkeys are in charge of the Democratic Party,

we're in lots of trouble.

[NoPasaran]

97. Unless he resigned after last week's flamewars

Howard Dean is in charge of the Democratic Party.

[ladjf]

123. Howard Dean is in charge of the DNC. But, I fear that the political

weight of the DLC might be usurping his influence. God knows, they try. And if you in the DLC camp, don't bother me about it. Just vote for whoever you wish and I'll do likewise.

[NoPasaran]

127. I am by no means in the "DLC camp"

Card-carrying Deaniac here. But I don't see much point in the DLC hysteria that periodically sweeps through DU. Putting together enemies lists of senators who don't live up to our standards does little to change the direction of the party.

[ladjf]

129. It's not a matter of not living up to certain standards. Many of the

leading DLC members are very vocal and influential. I and others on DU feel compelled to speak out against their attempts at guiding the Democratic Party. Guys like Byah have consistently and visibly supported Bush's policies at the most crucial times. That hurts our cause in my opinion.

[karynnj]

130. He's the head of the Democratic National Committee - not the party

I don't think ANYONE is in charge of the Democratic Party. The titular head of the party is the President (when a Democrat is President) or when a Republican is President(at various times in the past) the last nominee or the last President - which would mean Clinton, Kerry and Gore would have some claim to that title.

[AtomicKitten]

106. Membership is no big deal, active membership is.

Hey, they provide campaign finance. Nothing wrong with smooching butt in that regard. Just as long as the candidates ignore the DLC propaganda.

Ps: I am a much more relaxed person than some. I save my outrage for the truly outrageous.

Let the flaming begin!

[emulatorloo]

109. Love your P.S. - "I save my outrage for the truly outrageous."

well said. . .

[LWolf]

113. I agree.

One of the reasons I didn't vote for him in my primary, and why I never scraped up much enthusiasm for the general campaign. I did my job. I sent him some hard-earned cash, and I voted for him.

I've moved on. I hope the rest of Senator Kerry's political career is fruitful and positive for the U.S. and the planet. I hope the Democratic Party nominates someone willing to battle election fraud next time around.

[leesa]

117. Obviously. Corporate half-ass or non-solutions all the way.

[zulchzulu]

118. Kerry should blow up the DLC and declare a new party! The King Kong Krewe

Kidding...

Is this an attempt at trying out how much weapons we all have in a circular firing squad formation? Whether Kerry is part of the DLC has nothing to do with my continued support for his efforts...which are going strong and on my (and your) side.

[wisteria]

122. You know, that doesn't sound to bad of an idea right now.

Our current Dem party needs to realize we get no where pandering to the Repubs. They play nasty and mean.

[wisteria]

119. Naw, he is more DNC than anything else. The DLC doesn't even

notice him or credit him with anything. The idea of John Kerry being DLC is wrong.

[mtnsnake]

125. Yeah, he's DNC but wait, he's DLC, but no he's neither, but then again

maybe he's both or he could be partly one and partly the other.

Hey, just funnin with ya.

[second edition]

126. He's where he should be and where he feels comfortable being. IMO. n/t

[democracyindanger]

131. He's a member of the NRA, too. What's your point?

[election_2004]

136. For the record, I don't support Kerry for '08....

But then, I don't support Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, Joe Lieberman, or John Edwards for president either.

As far as his character and positions on issues, I thought Kerry was one of the best presidential candidates to come down the pipe in a long time. But he's old news.

The Democratic Party needs to get past these old faces and get behind new blood who can deliver effective messages, or else 2010 will end up being a redux of 1994.