Will we be seeing nasty threads about these Democrats as well? I doubt it

[SaveElmer]

Cosponsors of the lates flag burning amendment in the senate...I expect a nasty thread about each and every one of them will be forthcoming!!!

Sen Baucus, Max - 4/14/2005
Sen Dayton, Mark - 6/28/2005
Sen Feinstein, Dianne - 4/14/2005
Sen Johnson, Tim - 4/14/2005
Sen Lincoln, Blanche L. - 4/14/2005
Sen Nelson, E. Benjamin - 4/14/2005
Sen Salazar, Ken - 6/23/2005

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:SJ00012:@@@P

In addition I expect I will see threads excoriating Senators Dorgan, Conrad and Byrd for co-sponsoring a flag burning bill similar to the one Hillary signed on to.

And of course will see nasty threads about Howard Dean for support anti flag burning legislation in the 2004 campaign...

And of course there will be apoplectic threads on Kucinich for flip-flopping on this issue and on abortion as well!!


on edit: Man I am typing impaired today

[nini]

1. Feinstein! hisssssssssssssssssssssss

I wish I could run against that bitch.. :grr:

[Pithy Cherub]

3. I'd happily vote for you!

:)

[nini]

11. Why thank you!!

Too bad I don't have the money :(

[Totally Committed]

2. Most, maybe all, are DLC...

Maybe this is the new DLC "issue"?

TC

[Clark2008]

4. Considering that none of them plan to be the Dem nominee in

2008, probably not.

But, I do hear a lot of dissing of many of these people on this board from time to time. It's not only directed at Hillary.

[SaveElmer]

6. Drop in the Atlantic my friend...

Can't recall the last anti-Byrd thread, or the last anti-Salazar thread...

I do see the occasional anti-Feinstein thread...but nowhere near the scale!!!

I do see plenty of anti-Lieberman threads...don't think he is running!

[SaveElmer]

20. So you don't mind that your apparent candidate of choice...

Wesley Clark, also supports an amendment to the constitution banning desecration of the flag? I move I might add, that Hillary opposes.

[tkmorris]

5. I won't bother with a thread, because

None of the above appears to have any designs on the 2008 Democratic nomination. If that situation changes you will see me excoriate the candidate for this bill's co-sponsorship.

I think you would be wise to stop assuming that all criticism of Ms. Clinton is due to some sort of bias against her and realize that many of us legitimately do not like some of the positions she takes on issues.

[SaveElmer]

7. I would like a little balance...

And some reasoned criticism...not the usual mindless bashing we normally see!!!

And I would like to see praise where it is warranted...and it is warranted quite often in the case of Hillary as her constituents apparently are able to see!!!

[...of J.Temperance]

8. Hillary gets bashed because they're AFRAID of her

The way I see it, Senator Clinton MUST be doing something correct...because she gets bashed endlessly here...and the Rim Job crackpots bash her endlessly too.

So, she must be doing something correct.

I don't want Hillary running in 2008, but I think she's a FAB Senator and I'm proud that she's in the same party as I am :)

[AmericanDream]

28. Democrats are afraid of her? WTF?

Last, I heard she is a democrat... her success basically means our success. Then why would any dem be afraid of her? That is pure BS. People diss her because she has not been forthcoming on a lot of progressive issues... I like her as a Senator too, though I liked the old hillary better who took on issues like universal health care rather than flag burning and violence in video games. Some of the criticism of Hillary is deserved but it is also very overrated here.

[...of J.Temperance]

29. Hey check this out

Hillary is a Democrat...but many it seem don't EVEN think that she IS a Democrat...I even had a thread about it, lots of good comments, but MANY comments from the hate Hillary crowd and yes, to MANY of them they admit they don't think she's a Democrat:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2294423

[AZBlue]

10. But then why aren't those who take the same positions also criticized?

If it's not bias, then why is she singled out?

[AmericanDream]

30. Because she is the one who has the national name recognition...

What she does is basically associated with the party as a whole. No one outside of Nebraska cares about what Bill Nelson does. But what Hillary Clinton does, is often seen as the stance of the party... and some of us don't want to see some of her positions to be hailed as the positions of the party as a whole. People often forget that she was the first lady for 8 years because becoming a senator... she is not just the same as all the other senators who are little known nationally.

[sinkingfeeling]

9. Not a thread, but I told Blanche Lincoln not to ask me for any more

money or votes.

[robbedvoter]

12. Why? Are the others also running for POTUS?

Point is, I won't start threads on anyone for this issue - it's RW trap. No one needs to express themselves this way - not really.
Hillary gets more threads for her views (and I join them when it comes to war - cuz that IS relevant), because the media decided that she is the Designated Loser to the BFEE candidate (in other words they are fixing our primaries again). So, her views matter.

[sendero]

13. If any of them..

... were working on the 2008 nomination, you certainly would :)

[SaveElmer]

14. Don't recall Hillary making any kind of annoucement...

I thought everyone here was pissed at the media for pushing her candidacy...seems like you are being led around by the nose by Fox News.

[sendero]

19. How much do you wanna bet?

Hillary isn't doing all this shit to get re-elected Senator, she has that pretty much locked. I'll bet ya whatever you've got she announces.

Just because the Repugs want her so bad they can taste it doesn't mean she doesn't want it too.

[SaveElmer]

21. How much you want a bet...

That Wesley Clark (constitutional amendment supporter) makes another run. How about Howard Dean?

Don't see any criticism of them here.

[sendero]

31. You don't see either of them..

... spouting the same tired centrist bullshit, the same uninspired non-issue triangulations, and so forth. Yes, we at DU like Clark and Dean because they actually have something to offer other than pure political horseshit.

[SaveElmer]

32. Really...

So it does not bother you that Dean tales the same position as Hillary and Clark proposes going further...

[sendero]

36. Being wrong....

... 10% of the time is a lot better than being wrong most of the time. Perfection or a perfect match doesn't exist in this world.

[SaveElmer]

40. And exactl;y how is Hillary wrong 90% of the time?...nt

[FredScuttle]

15. Do you work for Snotty in the WH press office?

"Waaaa! Stop picking on me for my bullshit policies! Look over there...those guys did it too! Waaaa!"

[SaveElmer]

16. That's funny!

How old are you exactly?

[FredScuttle]

17. haha....you DO work in the WH press office!

Nice evasion...so, tell me again how listing a bunch of other sorry Dems who sponsored this sorry legislation somehow exempts Saint Hillary from rebuke?

[SaveElmer]

18. Of course...as with everyone in the Hillary Haters Club...

The point is missed! I have no trouble with reasoned criticism of anyone including Hillary. What I hate is the stench of hypocrisy and intellectual laziness. It's alot easier to mindlessly bash someone when you don't have to think about actual facts. I listed these Democrats to illustrate this hypocrisy.

[FredScuttle]

22. Such drama!

"Hillary Haters Club"....lol. You assume that I "hate" Hillary, which is the farthest thing from the truth.

I think you do have a problem with criticism (reasoned or otherwise) of Hillary...thus, your need for this "nyah-nyah" thread. To be frank, I could give a shit how Blanche Lincoln comes down on this issue because she's not the preeminent Democrat nationally and probable nominee in '08. Hillary is.

So what facts are us "haters" missing when is comes to Hillary and the flag burning legislation? eh?

[SaveElmer]

23. Have you read the legislation?

It does not ban flag burning...it makes it a crime to burn a flag with the intent of inciting violence...much like laws against cross burning. Check the press release from Senator Conrad (D-ND) for comments on this.

The larger point however, is the mindless Hillary bashing that goes on here. You may be blind to it, but it is there, it is not reasoned, and it is not usually factual.

I am a supporter of hers, I hope she does run for President. She is the preeminent Democrat running because that is what the media has made her. If you choose to think on their terms that is your perogative. But the fact is she has not even come close to making any kind of announcement. And as much as I would like her to run I think it is no better than 50/50 that she actually will.

Wesley Clark is just as likely as Hillary to give it another try, why don't I see any threads condemning his support for an amendment banning flag burning? The answer is simple, the threads on Hillary are far beyond mere criticism, they are intended to mindlessly bash her in a mob like fashion, and seem to result from an almost pathological hatred that does not respond to reason or fact. Otherwise we would see threads criticising Clark and others.

If Hillary is getting this attention because she is the preeminent Democrat, why all the threads on Joe Lieberman? I haven't heard any suggestion that he was going to give it another go?

[FredScuttle]

25. Did I say it banned flag burning?

uh, no...however, I do have a problem with legislation which equates flag burning with cross burning and says, basically, it's an violent act of intimdation. She sounds like a freakin' GOP stooge with this nonsense.

You seem overly concerned that other prominent Dems aren't getting bashed as much as Hillary for similar views. I'll grant you that it probably stems from a anti-Hillary bias in some measure (on this board and elsewhere). However, you must also acknowledge that we have the previous experience of her husband and his stab at "triangulation" with her fervent support. I too used to be an unabashed Clinton supporter with blinders on....ends justify the means, a swing toward the center is better than a swing to the right, etc...but what truly did that get us? I still admire President Clinton, but once bitten, twice shy, you might say.

Hillary has a long way to go to regain my support for an '08 run.

[SaveElmer]

26. Well we can have a debate about the flag burning...

And whether we can equate it with cross-burning elsewhere...I admit it is a debatable point and can see both side of it.

Fact is Bill's triangulation strategy worked...half of this country votes for ignorant and petty reasons (no other way to explain how Bush got in there). Sometimes they have to be appeased, or pandered to a bit to get their vote. Hillary has always said she would support this kind of legislation, but she is clearly doing it too to project a more moderate image, as Bill did with his Sister Soulja moment in '92. The sad fact of life is that it is gonna take these kinds of tactics to win in a world where the Republicans will stop at nothing.

If you really take a look at Hillary's record you will see she has not taken a swing to the right. She has a liberal 95 rating from the ADA, perfect ratings from Environmental, union and women's rights, and educational groups. And if you want to see how she explained her vote for the IWR, look at her floor speech. It is far more nuanced and skeptical than anyone here gives her credit for.

And no, I would rather not have threads bashing anyone (except Republicans). Reasoned criticism and debate is what I'm looking for!

[FredScuttle]

33. I have two reasons for my Clinton fatigue

1) DOMA
2) Welfare "reform"

two of the more ruinous pieces of legislation for which we have Bill and Hillary (and Dick Morris) to thank. Projecting a moderate image is one thing, but putting her public support behind garbage legislation like the flag burning bill in an effort to win votes SHE WILL NEVER GET is pathetic.

As for IWR and her "skepticism", I don't care if she was the Amazing Randi with the resolution...SHE VOTED FOR IT. That, I have big problem with.

[SaveElmer]

42. May I ask who your preferred candidate is?

If you have one yet!

Some people don't want to concentrate on 2008 yet whic is understandable...but if you do I'd like to know who it is, and if that person has taken any votes you disapprove of...

[FredScuttle]

44. Don't have one yet

But don't let that stop you in your attempts to change the subject away from deserved criticism of Hillary.

[SaveElmer]

45. Well lety me know when you do...

Because I am sure you will agree with them 100% of the time...and I am very sure they will be above all criticism!!!

[Donna Zen]

39. Reasoned criticism?

If anyone criticizes Hillary, her supporters call it bashing. I am educator and I give anyone who voted for NCLB, a bill that will take down education, a failing mark. Promising to fund a bad bill changes nothing.

Being opened to debate means stopping this foolishness. Obviously the people you named are not running for the presidency, and obviously, considering the team that is being put into place nationally, Hillary is. Also, many on your list are from RED states, making their voting records at least understandable even while they are bad for the people of our country. Hillary may or may not be a hawk, but mark this, she would govern as one because for some politicians is not about doing what's right. It is about pleasing the right.

[SaveElmer]

41. There is bashing...and there is reasoned criticism...

In these threads I have seen...on well more than one occasion...Hillary referred to as a slut, a whore, a bitch, and an asshole...

That is bashing...


Your post is closer to reasoned...you make a case and back it up without name calling...that is the difference!

[Cloud Monster]

24. I'm too fucking tired!

[PassingFair]

27. Funny, none of the above seem to have just sent me...

a VERY expensive mailer, complete with "RE-ELECT HILLARY" bumper sticker and window sign.

By the way I LIVE IN MICHIGAN, not New York.

You are either foolish or facetious!

I wouldn't canvass for any of the goobers on your list, but I don't live in their states, and they are not spending WADS of DLC money to send me campaign material when I DON'T, I repeat DON'T LIVE IN THEIR STATES.

She's running.... Wake Up!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

34. Yes, Hillary keeps spamming me in the mail to contribute to her

I live in Minnesota, and I've been getting at least two mailings a month from Hillary. In big envelopes. If she's not running for president, I don't see why she's spending so much on sending big envelopes to someone who has never contributed to her.

As if I'd contribute to a panderer (I wonder if there's anything she wouldn't give up to please the Republicans) who pretends that she has no presidentail ambitions... I have limited funds, and they're going to local candidates who share my beliefs, who actually HAVE beliefs other than grabbing power.

[PassingFair]

35. This last one was a doozy!

For real, I'm saving the "window sign" to use as wrapping for Mrs. Grumpy's X-mas present. Can't wait to see her little face light up when she sees the package..


:rofl:

[SaveElmer]

43. I hope she does run...

BTW there is a long list of potential candidates who have raised tons of money only to drop out at the last second....I give the chance of Hillary getting in at 50/50.

Secondly, still doesn't remove the hypocrisy...there are a fair number of Joe Lieberman threads bashing him...he won't be running?

Why no threads bashing Clark...he clearly will be running...he supports an amendment to the constitution...a move Hillary opposes

[SpiralHawk]

37. "Flag burning" is right up there with the "War on Christmas"

If you are making up a list of phony, demagogic "issues" raised by the NeoCons to divide and conquer the people of the USA.

These "issues" are about splitting the nation, and cultivating anger and resentment on all sides.

That's about it.

the NeoCon propaganda machine is in Full Catapult mode on this shit, because it distracts from the real news about the treason and graft in Bush's Republican/Washington culture of corruption.

[MrBenchley]

38. How about John Murtha?

How many posts from our teen progressives are there bashing other Democrats for not being "ilke John Murtha" or grandly announcing "Murtha speaks for me--fuck all other Democrats"?

"WASHINGTON, DC June 4, 2003 – Flag-protection legislation introduced by Congressman John Murtha of Pennsylvania and Randy “Duke” Cunningham of California was passed by the U.S. House of Representatives yesterday.
The legislation would amend the U.S. Constitution."

http://www.house.gov/murtha/news/nw030604.htm