This is a Christian Nation!

[MadisonProgressive]

Or so say the fundie freepers. But President John Adams in 1797 signed the treaty of Tripoli between the U.S. and Tripoli of Barbary, a muslim state, which contained the following WHEREAS:

"...the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html

So BITE MY ASS fundie traitors!:grr:

[pdxmom]

1. Since when do the Repugs think we have to honor treaties? n/t

[MadisonProgressive]

2. I agree, of course

Just pointing out that one of the founding fathers signed his name to that treaty which contained that revealing statement.

[sabate]

3. Remember John....

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/myth.html

[MadisonProgressive]

7. Thank you! I never saw that - that's a good load of ammo

[funflower]

14. Excellent article, sabate, and welcome to DU!

[zbdent]

4. If we're such a Christian nation

why do we support the death penalty and unnecessary invasions of non-threatening countries?

[Sinistrous]

5. And don't forget that 61% of the citizens in this oh so "Christian" nation

approve of the use of torture.

I feel like I am going to scream.

Sinistrous

[MindPilot]

6. This nation was founded on Christian principals

Umm....no.

US Constitution: Power is derived from the the people.
Christianity: Divine right of kings.

US Constitution: Representative lawmaking.
Christianity: God is the lawgiver.

US Constitution: Equality under the law.
Christianity: Some groups are chosen by god.

US Constitution: Freedom of and from worship.
Christianity: "Thou shalt have no other gods..." etc.

US Constitution: No cruel or unusual punishment.
Christianity: Leviticus & Deuteronomy.

US Constitution: Right to question leaders.
Christianity: Render unto Ceaser...

US Constitution: Right to keep and bear arms.
Christianity: OK, I'll give 'em that one.

But under our current government, the country has turned more to follow Christianity than Constitutionality, so it is accurate to say "this is a Christian Nation", but it wasn't originally built that way.

[xchrom]

8. well done!

:applause:

[MindPilot]

9. Why, thank you!!

:blush:

[doubleplusgood]

11. excellent !

People also need to be reminded that we are founded moreso out of ideas that sprang from decidely PAGAN cultures. The concept of democracy (and the word itself) came from pagan Greece, not from anywhere in the Bible. The Senate (yes, we have a Senate, not a Sanhedrin), enshrined in our constituion, came from pagan Rome. The structure of the Iriqois confederation was also said to have had an influence on the founding fathers.

[Kolesar]

19. the land of amazing factoids...DU...eom

[salvorhardin]

13. Excellent post! n/t

[question everything]

10. Thank you. Recommended and forwarded to friends

I also like the document linked in the one you cite http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm

The United States Constitution serves as the law of the land for America and indicates the intent of our Founding Fathers. The Constitution forms a secular document, and nowhere does it appeal to God, Christianity, Jesus, or any supreme being. The U.S. government derives from people (not God), as it clearly states in the preamble: "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union...." The omission of God in the Constitution did not come out of forgetfulness, but rather out of the Founding Fathers purposeful intentions to keep government separate from religion.

(snip)

Many Christian's who think of America as founded upon Christianity usually present the Declaration of Independence as "proof" of a Christian America. The reason appears obvious: the Declaration mentions God. (You may notice that some Christians avoid the Constitution, with its absence of God.)

However, the Declaration of Independence does not represent any law of the United States. It came before the establishment of our lawful government (the Constitution). The Declaration aimed at announcing the separation of America from Great Britain and it listed the various grievances with them. The Declaration includes the words, "The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America." The grievances against Great Britain no longer hold today, and we have more than thirteen states.

And a note:
The end of the Constitution records the year of its ratification, "the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven." Although, indeed, it uses the word "Lord", it does not refer to Jesus but rather to the dating method. Incredibly, some Christians attempt to use this as justification for a Christian derived Constitution. The term simply conveys a written English form of the Latin, Anno Domini (AD), which means the year of our Lord (no, it does not mean After Death). This scripted form served as a common way of dating in the 1700s. The Constitution also uses many pagan words such as January (from the two-headed Roman god, Janus), and Sunday (from the word Sunne, which refers to the Saxon Sun god). Can you imagine the ludicrous position of someone trying to argue for the justification of a pagan god based Constitution?

[MindPilot]

12. IIRC the Declaration doesn't mention god specifically

It refers to "their Creator" which of course is consistent with the founders' deism.

[funflower]

15. The Declaration pointedly avoids reference to the Christian God.

I'm always amazed when fundies grasp at straws like this to "prove" politicians' Christianity. Even W usually shies away from the kind of religious specifics that ALL of the evangelicals I know use on a daily basis. Politicians have long tried to string along the fundies while not saying anything that would allow themselves to be pinned down to a particular creed.

[MadisonProgressive]

16. OK, so now that we all seem to be in agreement

Doesn't this reality make the fundies out to be traitors to the Constitution?

[MindPilot]

17. I think you may have something there!!! n/t

[NMMNG]

18. Many of them don't give a darn

Many of them would put the Bible above the Constitution, which is pretty darn scary if you ask me. :scared:

[BoneDaddy]

20. Wonderful

I sent this to many of my christian friends. Thanks alot.

[immoderate]

21. When I hear that...

I usually ask to person to name a Christian principle that we are founded on. I usually get no response. One time I called a televangelical church with that question, when I heard it on the air. The person who answered the phone thought for a moment and said, "Jesus is the king of the universe!":rofl:

--IMM

[Le Taz Hot]

22. I printed this out yesterday

And forgot to offer a big THANK YOU! GREAT source of information, though it wasn't news to those of us who have actually picked up a few history books and have read about the founding fathers. It will be a great thing to pull out when one of these uneducated (by choice) idiots start spewing the "Christian nation" dogma.

[Igel]

23. Treaties usually contain relevant passages, as required.

One wonders in what context this would be both relevant and required:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

It seems to be a concession; one wonders why the Bey would require or demand that particular one.