My olive branch to supporters of Hillary

[derby378]

I know I'm not the only one on DU who's been critical of Hillary either today or in the past, but I feel I need to do this.

I guess the point I ultimately want to make is that our nominee in 2008, whomever it is, must be more dynamic, expressive, and educated in the use of framing than Gore in 2000 or even Kerry in 2004. "More of the same" just won't cut it.

My sentiments should not be considered "Hillary-bashing," but merely part of an overall response to the sentiment, expressed by many on DU and elsewhere across America, that the 2008 nomination is hers if she'll just commit to running. My goal is the same as it always has been: a Democratic White House in 2008.

But we have to do it right. Especially after Kerry softballed his efforts to shut down the Bush machine in 2004.

How hungry are you for universal health care? For full civil rights for gay Americans? For the repair of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security? For the end of excessive greenhouse gas emissions? For a real energy policy that strives for sustainability? For an actual education for our children? For a balanced budget and a renewed effort to trim our National Debt? For the end of the USA PATRIOT Act, the occupation of Iraq, and government-sanctioned torture?

I want them all so badly I can taste it in the back of my throat. But we have to want it badly enough to do everything in our power that's ethical and legal in order to realize this dream. And if it seems like I've been a little hard on Hillary, well, now you know why.

I remember Hillary from Bill Clinton's first term. Hell, I was a Republican back then, but even I could see that this woman was working her butt off trying to get things done in Washington. I didn't have to agree with her initiatives to recognize that she had a real drive to reform health care in America. I think a lot of Republicans wanted health care reform, too, because they knew what was coming around the bend in terms of HMOs, increased bureaucracy, and so on. But we couldn't come up with a unified plan of our own. So, to borrow a riff from Molly Ivins, instead of "socialized" health care, now we have "corporatized" health care - and boy oh boy, are we having big fun now.

We couldn't deliver on a plan. But at least Hillary and her team had some idea of where they were headed, how to get there, and how to pay for it all with minimal harm to the average taxpayer. There's something to be said for that.

So if Hillary Rodham Clinton gets the party's nod in 2008, I'll support her. I will have my differences with her (as many of us do), but as I said earlier, I want a Democratic White House come January 2009. Ultimately, I don't care if it's Hillary, Wes Clark, Russ Feingold, Dennis Kucinich, or Barbara Boxer who winds up in the Oval Office - as long as they can get the job done and make government accountable to "We, the People" once again.

I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours... - Bob Dylan

[HereSince1628]

1. Here since 1628, but against the DLC since 1998

I am not at all ready for 'Whoever is the democratic candidate threads'

[Tom Joad]

2. I will not support anyone if he/she supports the Iraq occupation. eom

[othermeans]

4. I'm with you I'm tired of DINOs and Hillary is rapidly becoming one of

them. Now she wants to make it a Federal Crime to burn the flag. She's taking a page from her husband's playbook.

[...of J.Temperance]

5. She's taking a page from her husbands playbook...GOOD because

President Clinton won TWICE...

The map of the 1992 Presidential Election:



The map of the 1996 Presidential Election:



Go on post back with some EXCUSE about those two maps.

[Pithy Cherub]

7. LOL! The most recent is at least 10 years old.

There has been a census taken since that map has had any relevance. Clinton won a plurality in a three way race back in the twentieth century.

Today's voters show a marked preference (based on the disastrous last 5 years) for competence, leadership and intellectual ability. Responsible and experienced national security policies, multi-lateral foreign policy and domestic policies that promote the common good will win the day.

A map that shows a point in time gives empirical evidence of what has taken place. It is not a forecast model of the 21st century because things have definitely changed, and not for the better.

[...of J.Temperance]

9. Yeah yeah...

President Clinton WON...are you EVEN a Democrat can I ask?

[derby378]

12. There is one problem with those maps...

Bill Clinton never reached 50% of the popular vote. The presence of a strong third-party candidate does have some impact, but Perot took conservatives away from the GOP. If Perot never ran, then Clinton would be more vulnerable.

And Texas has been firmly in the red since 1992 in terms of Presidential races. That's a hell of a lot of electoral votes that cannot be written off by the DNC any longer.

[BluegrassDem]

16. Who cares about popular vote??

He WON the electoral college, which is how Bush became president. That's all I care about.

[...of J.Temperance]

20. And Gore WON the popular vote and

The electoral college was stolen off him.

But you know, they'll ALWAYS find an excuse.

[...of J.Temperance]

17. I know that Perot

Ran as a strong third-party candidate. I still think Clinton would have won without Perot, yes it would have been a lot closer, but he would have won...because people were ready for a change.

I posted those maps as a response to what I saw as not ONLY Hillary bashing BUT President Clinton bashing "she's taking a page out of her husbands book"...like as if this is somehow a BAD thing to do.

[...of J.Temperance]

19. In those maps the GOP are in RED and we're in BLUE btw n/t

[Pithy Cherub]

15. I'm a smart Dem and You...

[...of J.Temperance]

18. What is a "smart Dem"? n/t

[Pithy Cherub]

21. Color me highly amused! If ya gotta ask...n/t

[...of J.Temperance]

23. I think a lot of people would ask...what a "smart Dem" is

I'm a staunch Democrat, and I don't go for the bashing of Democrats. I'm also a pragmatist and I want to WIN, and I don't think you can win by eating your own.

Everybody WANTS the same thing, to remove the Repukes and Bush Inc. and to do this, we MUST work together for the common good and for our common goal. I've admitted that I'm a Centrist Democrat and I'm willing to work with the Left of my party...but I'd like us all to sort of meet each other half way and agree that we agree on many of the core issues, on health, social security, abortion, fair judiciary, the minimum wage, gay rights et al.

I agree that Iraq is wrong and it was wrong to go in...but we cannot change what has been done, we can only work to try and make it better.

We need in order to win, we need to concentrate on what UNITES us as a party...all the nitpicking and one issue stuff, I think needs to stop.

I'm sure that the Repukes are loving this stuff, all the in-fighting thats going on.

Maybe you can now tell me what a "smart Dem" is, considering I've elaborated for you?

[Pithy Cherub]

27. A person's belief system is uniquely personal.

Exhorting others to proclaim "united" personal/political beliefs will not amass influence or garner more adherents. Facts and data are filtered through an emotional prism that differs with the message giver and the message taker. Democrats and those wonderful people on the Left, think and believe differently and the diversity of that is what gives the party Liberals, Centrists and Conservatives. Accepting that they all co-exist and do not have to be united for the sake of unity is a smart Dem.

Your quixotic request for unity based on centrism and a deep fear of what republicans think of watching Democratic critical thinking at its worst and best, is emblematic of philosophy being the central issue. Your call is for uniting behind a strategy (The How) that achieves worthwhile goals (The What) but the means by which it is achieved in now the front burner of the party's debate.

What is the Democratic Party's philosophy and who sets what it will be? That is not likely to be settled anytime soon and there is a Life and Death tug of war for the philosophic soul of the party. The calls for unity come from centrists who have lost the moral high ground based on an over reliance on corporate favoritism. The fight from Liberals are because of the shame of going along with the Party program for the previous two election cycles. Let the fur fly and every voice of agreement and dissent be heard. That is the way to be truly smart is to hear the worst, the best and act accordingly with ALL of the information.

Let the angels be heard and the fur fly...

[othermeans]

30. So you don't say anything about Zell Miller or Lieberman? They're Dems

just go along to get along? Sorry I don't want to goose step to anybody's band. You like Hillary's anti-flag burning stand? how about her outlawing video games she thinks are violent? Please get a grip they're all politicians.

[...of J.Temperance]

8. There are OTHER issues, you people are sounding like Fundies

ONE ISSUE VOTERS, they only vote on ONE issue.

There are a VARIETY of issues that need to be addressed, as the OP who started this thread accurately pointed out...healthcare, social security, abortion, job creation, stopping extreme Right-Wing judges et al.

"I will not support anyone if he/she supports the Iraq occupation"

It's called cutting off your nose to spite your face. I was against the Iraq disaster from the beginning...but I'm not a one issue voter, I look at the BIGGER picture and I will support whoever our 2008 candidate is. I've already pointed out that I don't want Hillary in 2008...my top candidates are Edwards, Clark and Warner...but if Hillary got the nomination I'd vote for her...and if Kucinich got the nomination I'd vote for him.

These extremists who are saying "I'm not supporting anyone who voted for IWR..." whilst ignoring the BIGGER picture on the variety of other equally important social issues...you're being very selfish and yes, I now consider you extremists.

You don't help our party at all, we're trying to stay united, we have the Repukes on the ropes and we're in pretty good condition. We know we have people who are trying to distract us and divide us...and we're going to resist.

The "Take My Ball and Go Home" section...well go home.

Moderators, if my post is wrong, then feel free to remove it and I'll understand completely.

On Edit: Spelling error.

[PassingFair]

33. The war cannot be dismissed as a "single issue" for voters.

Everybody HATES the Nazi analogies, but try this one on for size:

Pieter: "But Hans, we just invaded and occupied FRANCE. I cannot remain silent"

Hans: "You are being very selfish. Why are you ignoring the bigger picture, Deutchland Uber Alles.
Do you want the inflation of the Wiemar? You are a silly extremist. Zieg Heil!"

[huskerlaw]

3. I will support anyone

who has a real shot of de-throning the * Cabal.

I would, however, prefer to actually support the person and their beliefs than the lesser of 2 evils, which sadly is what a vote for Hillary Clinton would be for me.

[...of J.Temperance]

10. And of course, you're taking the correct position, the position thats

The best for our party :)

[silverstateD]

6. Hillery cannot win. She must be stopped in the

primaries.

[DemCam]

13. Then we await the primaries for verificaition.

As I recall, John Kerry was in the same boar mid-December and maybe even into January. I repeated it often to everyone I knew. That was when he was polling at around 8%....and then came Iowa and simply knocked my candidate out of the race even though he limped on through Oklahoma. I learned a very big lesson right there...predictions in primaries are really hard to make.

I await those primaries. Is Hillary even going to be a candidate for prez? As Rummy would say..."Who knows?" I'm not gonna even go there. But it sure is fun to see us all get riled up on the speculation.

I've got my popcorn right here.

[Totally Committed]

11. Read this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5531883

TC

[...of J.Temperance]

14. Yes, the Howard Dean 2004 supporters ALSO acted like a Cult too

Yes they did, it was The Cult of Howard.

I'm not part of any Cult, Hillary has MANY faults. Cultists refuse to believe that their Cult head has ANY faults.

[David Zephyr]

22. Hillary's "Pay or Play" health care plan was warmed over corporatism.

Her "plan" to get out of Iraq is the same as Bush and Lieberman's.

Give the Clinton's all the olive branches you want, I'm with The Nation. Those that continue to support the Iraqi War and undermine those that oppose it, as Hillary did with Congressman Murtha, will not have my support.

[...of J.Temperance]

24. I've given derby378 a vote, because yes I'm willing to accept their

Olive branch. It's a shame that what should have been a nice thread, a thread about being positive and working together as a united party...has been invaded by Hillary bashers.

But I gave you a vote, you now have two votes.

[derby378]

25. I appreciate it

Listen up, guys. Regardless of how you feel about Hillary, please keep it nice on this thread. There's other threads where you're still free to "John Jay" her to your heart's content.

Thank you.

[...of J.Temperance]

26. You now have

Three votes I notice :) You know, I'm willing to work with anyone and everyone to achieve our common goal of removing the Repukes and Bush Inc.

I'd probably EVEN work with the Devil himself, that's how much of paramount importance this is to me.

I think it's a great shame that a lot of people will not meet people like us half way :(

[CTyankee]

28. I want a Dem in the WH too and we could do worse than HRC

I just don't think she's going to make it. Russ Feingold is looking good and some others. But what I really feel is that we have to have someone who doesn't have a lot of baggage (and Senators do!). Remember, GWB was just a governor, Bill Clinton was just a governor, hell, even Ronald Reagan was a governor (OK, and a B level movie actor). Maybe we should just apply the "no senator" rule early on and get with one of the candidates who are governors and concentrate our minds there.

[MrBenchley]

29. God knows you and I have had differences...but this is a great post!!

"How hungry are you for universal health care? For full civil rights for gay Americans? For the repair of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security? For the end of excessive greenhouse gas emissions? For a real energy policy that strives for sustainability? For an actual education for our children? For a balanced budget and a renewed effort to trim our National Debt? For the end of the USA PATRIOT Act, the occupation of Iraq, and government-sanctioned torture?
I want them all so badly I can taste it in the back of my throat."
I agree....but I also realize we have to build a consensus on those issues with moderate Americans in the center, in order to accomplish those things. And that means give and take.

A Democratic Congress in 06, and a Democratic win in 08....and I' plan to support the nominee, whoever it is.

[laugle]

31. I want to see someone who will KICK ASS!!! And

old Bill and Hill could do it!!! Besides I love DIRTY WHITTLE BILLY....

[SaveElmer]

32. This is the kind of discussion I have been hoping we would get...

I support Hillary, it's no secret. I hope and pray she runs and is nominated. And I believe she will win the general if she is. I also think she will make a great President.

I know there are plenty of people who are critical of some positions she takes, and don't like the sort of ruthless brand of politics she engages in.

It's not that I care if people are critical of her...she has made mistakes...I would just like that discussion to be reasoned, balanced, and most of all based on facts.

I too will vote for any Democrat that is nominated. I live in Virginia so I know what a great Governor Warner has been. Wesley Clark would get my support without a second thought. And even though I believe Dennis Kucinich is probably to liberal to be elected...I would happily vote for him knowing that I agree with him 80% of the time, while I agree not at all with the Republicans.

Thanks for the Post!!!

Has my vote too btw!