Joe Lieberman must STAY IN THE SENATE.

[AX10]

I am from Connecticut. Joe is not my favorite, but he's a whole lot better than Chris Shays who would be appointed to fill the vacancy by Gov. Rell, a REPUBLICAN. That will be one LESS vote for us in the senate. That is one less vote in our favor on most issues. That is one vote against us to take back the majority. Shays can win a full term. He will vote with the GOP on key issues and will tow the line, including ending the fillibuster against judicial nominees. Leave Lieberman in the Senate.

[BR_Parkway]

1. And he would vote different from Lieberman? Right now it only gives

the Repugs a chance to say "look, even Dems agree with us"

[Cronus Protagonist]

2. Exactly - and dumping L would send a message to other milquetoast DINOS

It would be a win-win situation for everybody.

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[sharp_stick]

7. True but

what AX10 said about Shays is right. He would probably win a full term and any repug in office is one less than the dems need to take control of committees and actually start to bring the current scumbag administration to account.

I've never been a fan of Lieberman but I believe a DINO is better than a RINO.

[AX10]

13. CT is a moderate state. Shays can win a full term.

Then what? That seat is gone. I don't want any Rethugs in power in my blue state. I will support Lieberman over Shays or any other Rethug, except for Lowell Weicker. But he is basically a Democrat now.

Keep Joe in the Senate.

[Cascadian]

53. It's like what is better to kill hanging or the electric chair.

Either one will kill you no matter.


:eyes:


John

[SteppingRazor]

5. But one less "D" is one less "D" toward a majority...

We're only six seats away. We need all the senators we can get. Joe's just fine where he is. As long as the Democrats don't give him any major leadership role, I'm perfectly happy having him, or any other DINO, along for the ride.

The majority is too important to sacrifice over the politics of one man.

[Neil Lisst]

10. AMEN. Get a majority plus two, then spank him, if we must.

First you get the secure majority. Until then, has he got a pulse?

Once we have a secure majority, if his conduct has been truly offensive, we deprive him of a chairmanship. That's how you do it, not expulsion.

[Einstein99]

22. If we "spank him," as you say

what's to prevent him from jumping to the Repugs and throwing the majority back to them in exchange for getting a chairmanship from them? Just asking?

[onenote]

26. it would never happen. Ever.

Lieberman's voting record on the environment, choice, guns, etc. is anathema to the repugs. They can't give him a chairmanship over one of their own and he would have no reason to take it. He could accomplish more of his agenda on those issues as a member of Democratic majority than he could as a member of the repugs. So it would never happen.

onenote

[Neil Lisst]

32. That's why I said "two vote margin."

You want to make sure he can't jump and ruin you.

As a practical matter, with a Republican president and governor, we're screwed if he stops being a Senator.

[AX10]

12. Look, Lieberman votes with the left base on economic issues.

You cannot complain there. Also, he has voted consistantly to fight discrimination. Another issue that the base of the party holds important.

[Crunchy Frog]

3. I'm glad I don't live in Connecticut, cause I'd have a hell of a time

trying to make myself vote for him. He does have a pretty high approval rating over there, so he's not in any real danger, right?

[WI_DEM]

4. Shay's would be another Chafee meaning taking a liberal

stand here and there but when it's a major party line vote he will stick with the GOP. I agree I would rather have Lieberman in the Senate where he would vote for Harry Reid as Majority Leader.

[AX10]

9. Bingo! I know my state well.

Shays = Chafee. I support Lieberman in the Senate.

[J-Hen]

23. Could Blumenthal win?

I hear he is pretty popular. If Lieberman leaves to become the Sec of Defense, one of those moderate Republicans could certainly make it a race in '06.

[AX10]

24. Yes.

[chicagiana]

31. RALPH NADER !!!!

Perhaps Ralph could run for an election that means a lot less than president. If he derails the re-election of a DINO for Senate, a lot less is lost.

Honestly, most of the Democratic Senators aren't worth much. Even Barack Obama is turning out to be milquetoast.

[sellitman]

61. Screw Nader. Forever!!!!!!

Move on. The friend of the people is no longer. He has proved that time and time again.


Screw him!!!!!!!!!

[CTyankee]

39. Blumenthal is as good as you've heard

He would make an excellent Senator. I would support him wholeheartedly in a primary against Joe. He wouldn't be wishy washy and he is super smart. Much MORE prochoice than Joe (big supporter of Planned Parenthood). Ah, I can dream!

[HereSince1628]

6. Lieberman's nose count might help after the 2006 election but

franly I'd rather have him on the outside of the tent pissing on the entry flaps. That way we now exactly who he is with.

[Neil Lisst]

8. You are right. If Joe jumped to a Cabinet post, we'd be screwed.

I wish everyone would get off Joe Lieberman. When you have someone in your team talking like him, you don't run them off to the other side. You let them talk, and try not to make it a bigger issue by making a scene about it.

As I keep saying, it's between him and HIS constituency, and that's one state. I always defer to the right each area has to be represented as IT sees fit.

[AX10]

11. Thank you for the support. Being PURELY PRAGMATIC...

I have to support Lieberman. He is better than Shays. Shays voted for Bush's tax cuts, corporate deregulation, and deficit spending.

[Neil Lisst]

18. politics is almost always choosing the lesser S.O.B

When we get a really good one, it's a bonus.

[AX10]

20. I will vote for Lieberman over any GOP lacky.

Let's be honest here, that is what is left of the GOP. They are all lackies to the Neo-Con/Corportists/Fundies.

[MrBenchley]

14. It's worth noting that Joe has a 69% approval rating

among Connecticut voters, who like to see bipartisanship int heir politicos.

[pocket]

15. fuck leiberman

throw him out

throw pnac and aipac out

[emulatorloo]

16. Lieberman is not an idiot - he turned down bushco in '04, why would he

join them now? I call BS on this rumor.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5521055&mesg_id=5521055

[AX10]

17. It's just a rumor. Bush offered it to him so that the GOP could...

get his seat. That's all there is to it.

[emulatorloo]

21. or so the GOP could pretend to be "reaching out" or whatever is testing

well for Frank Lunzt this week.

[Rowdyboy]

19. Connecticut has a Republican governor, then Lieberman should either

retire or run for re-election-not quit in mid-term and allow the governor to stick us with Senator Shays or Johnson. Sometimes people here let their hatred of personalities overcome their critical judgement.

Personally, I think Lieberman should challenge Rell for the governorship. That way we get rid of him in the senate, and get a Democratic sucessor.

[CTyankee]

46. Would be great but that's not gonna happen

I think Joe wants to have his hand in on foreign policy, particularly middle east policy (I guess I can't blame him on that).

[Einstein99]

25. To those who want to keep L for "pragmatic" reasons, I ask

would you support a Zell Miller or a George Wallace type just to have a Democratic majority? I'm not trying to be nasty, I'm just wondering how far you think we should go? Where would you draw the line?

[AX10]

27. Hold on there! Joe Lieberman is NOT Zell Miller or George Wallace.

That is an unfair comparision. Lieberman is to the left of both of them without question. Also, Joe is pro-civil rights, Miller and Wallace are not.


Stupid, Stupid Comparison.

[Einstein99]

41. I never said he was

See post #33

[TankLV]

55. He's WORSE - haven't you heard about his scolding democrats who

"dare criticize" the Crimnal AWOL pResident and "undermine his warmongering"!?

Are you all who support this piece of excrement nuts!

FUCK HIM!

[onenote]

28. joe lieberman is not zell miller

I disagree with a number of Joe's positions, but to equate him with Zell Miller is silly. During the period from 2000 through 2004 (which is when Miller held office) his ADA rating averaged 18. Lieberman's ADA rating over the same period was 80. Miller's high mark was in 2001 when his rating was 35, Lieberman's low mark was in 2003 when his rating was 70. (Lieberman's ADA rating high mark was 2001, when it was 95 and Miller's low was in 2000 when it was 0).

While Miller swore he "was born a Democrat and would die a Democrat" there is little doubt in the minds of most political insiders that if he had decided to run for another term in the Senate, he would have changed party affiliation and would have been welcomed with open arms by the repubs.

onenote

[Einstein99]

42. Again, I never said he was

See post #33

[onenote]

44. allright then, to answer your question

It would depend. If it was Zell Miller running as a Democrat against a repub who had the same positions as Saxby Chambliss...I'd hold my nose and vote for Zell as the lesser of two evils.

onenote

[Einstein99]

48. OK, I'm with you so far

But what if the Democrat were not the lesser of two evils? What if the Democrat were actually just a tad worse than the Repub? Would you still vote for the Democrat just to have a Democrat majority? What I'm really asking is which is more important, holding onto your political values in the short term and long term or casting a distasteful short-term vote in the hopes that it will lead to a better long-term solution?

[onenote]

50. it would depend

Imagine that a Democrat with views identical to Ben Nelson (ADA rating 65) was running against a repub with views identical to Olympia Snowe (ADA rating 65). In general I'd say I'd go with the Dem (even if his/her score was not 65 but was a tad worse, say 60). But it might depend on how they got to their scores. If one of them took what I thought to be a repugnant position on an issue that was of paramount importance to me, then I might be swayed to support the other despite party affiliation. Unless I sat out the election.

In my experience, however, the choices usually are clearer than that.

onenote

[Einstein99]

52. Thank you for the explanation

This is the kind of analysis I was trying to understand.
:pals:

[DeepModem Mom]

29. I would, if it meant a Dem Senate majority, with the power...

to investigate, with the chairperson and majority of every Senate committee Dem, and with the power the majority has over legislation out of the hands of religious nuts and right-wing extremist Republicans. I might support Jack the Ripper, if he had a (D) after his name, and would help us rid ourselves of this relentless minority which has our country on a path to disaster.

[Einstein99]

33. Thank you for answering the question I asked

In no way did I compare Joe Lieberman to George Wallace or Zell Miller. I set those two idiots on one end of a continuum and asked how far people would be willing to move toward the end of that continuum just to get or maintain a Democratic majority. While I disagree with your answer, at least you understood the question and answered it.

[DeepModem Mom]

36. I'm afraid I did engage in a bit of hyperbole, E99 --

:)

[SaveElmer]

30. And more importantly...

It would be one less vote for Harry Reid as MAJORITY leader...

[patrioticliberal]

34. Hate to tick you off, but Lieberman is in the Gang of 14

[IndianaGreen]

35. Holy Joe is joined to Bush's hip

If Bush offers Holy Joe the VP spot to replace a suddenly ailing Cheney, Holy Joe will take it!

Get Lowell Weicker to run as an independent!

[Douglas Carpenter]

37. I'm no fan of Joe Lieberman. In fact he makes me cringe, especially when

he talks about the war in Iraq and many other military-foreign policy matters

If it were possible (which I don't think it is) to mount a credible anti-war/progressive challenge to him in the primaries I would likely welcome it.

But let's compare his record to Mr. "Moderate Republican" himself
John McCain

They both hold equally deplorable positions on Iraq. But let's compare on other issues.

link:

from project vote smart - link

for Lieberman

http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=S0141103

for McCain link:

http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=S0061103

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 0 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 83 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 22 percent in 2003-2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 75 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 35 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 83 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 33 percent in 2004.


2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 92 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 9 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the National Education Association 88 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Education Association 35 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 88 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 25 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 95 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 14 percent in 2003-2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 50 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Family Research Council 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Family Research Council 67 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 83 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 72 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Concerned Women for America 8 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Concerned Women for America 100 percent in 2003-2004.

[0007]

38. Why speed time and money on the likes of Joe Lieberman

We don't have the time and must go further to the left to get things back in order.

Lieberman is doing more damage than good.

[itzamirakul]

40. I would rather see a REAL, REGISTERED REPUBLICAN in office than

a sanctimonious, special interest, lying, talking-out-of-both-sides-of-his-mouth DINO.

The hell with supporting "the Party"...the Republicans have taken it over any damned way!

I hope Lieberman loses so badly that he has to become a reborn citizen.

[onenote]

43. wow, that makes no sense at all

So you'd rather see someone who opposes a women's right to choose, who guts environmental and civil rights laws, who is pro-gun and who will mindlessly back every one of chimpy's disastrous policies, over Lieberman who, while wrong on the war, is still far better than any republican Senator on the bulk of the Democratic Party platform.

onenote

[itzamirakul]

51. One note: Lieberman fits the description you posted better than most

REAL REPUBLICANS do.

I think he is a lying, supercilious piece of scum and I will CHEER when he is defeated.

You can be YOUR kind of fool and support someone who is stabbing you in the back politically at every turn.

And I can be MY kind of fool and prefer that the enemy win rather than have a two-faced lying POS holding office in the political party that I support.

[mmonk]

45. What good is it if you support alot of democratic ideas.

but don't support democracy where it really matters?

[IndianaGreen]

47. Lieberman just called for the Democrats to surrender to Bush!

Read it yourself on this LBN thread:

Lieberman Calls For Formation Of 'War Cabinet' (Bipartisan Group)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1969351

[TankLV]

60. I don't understand how people can support that piece of SHIT!

He get's worse every fucking day - just like his "buddy" Bunkerboy!

[truebrit71]

49. Lieberman must GO!!!

He is bloody useless, puts the party in a bad light because he sides with the rethuglicans, and his primary worry is the safety of Israel...He can do a better job of that by joining his buddy Ariel Sharon in the Knessett, and leave the job of U.S. politics to folks that are more concerned about AMERICANS....

Fuck YOU Joe!!

[TankLV]

54. Fuck him - he scolds fellow dems who "dare criticize" the AWOL

Criminal pResident!

Get a clue man!

He stinks - he's shit - get rid of him already!

[Crazy Guggenheim]

56. If Lieberman's ass is on the line he just might wake up.

[Zhade]

57. Didn't Shays come out against Delay?

Not too knowledgeable about the guy, but I recall him being lauded here for that particular stance.

[usregimechange]

58. I typically follow that arguement but not for Joe, Joe must go.

[Lone_Wolf]

59. Lieberman is to cozy with the Repukes... If someone is going to jump ship

from the Dems to the Repukes it will be Holy Joe. It MUCH better that he leaves the Dems under our terms (voted out) rather than his terms (defection).

He is undermining the Democratic Party... He's the weakest link and has to go.

[sellitman]

62. I will work to remove him anyway I can.

Joe must go!!!!!

[PassingFair]

63. Ahem...Lieberman calls for WAR cabinet...

"Lieberman, whom the Bush administration has praised repeatedly for his war stance, defended the president. "It's time for Democrats who distrust President Bush to acknowledge he'll be commander-in-chief for three more years," the senator said. "We undermine the president's credibility at our "nation's peril."

Wanna RETHINK THAT OP?

[election_2004]

64. Like Rosa DeLauro wouldn't defeat Shays in an open-seat race....

Connecticut has a Congressional delegation and statewide delegation FULL of Democrats who can handily defeat Chris Shays in the 2006 General Election.

[capitalistdemocrat]

65. Don't worry.

Joe’s not going anywhere. He is the most popular politician in Connecticut.