We won't beat Repubs until we're better than they are at campaigning

[jrd200x]

Sad but true my friends. The reason Karl Rove & Company keep winning has little to do with their ideas or governing abilities. No matter who the Dems put up they will forever be painted as 1. Flip Floppers 2. Un-Patriotic 3. Abortionists.

Is any of this true? Of course not. The GOP has mastered the art of re-direction and have turned being uneducated and uninformed into a zen-like quality. We can point out their hypocrisy and stupidity until we're blue in the face, but there will always be that important sliver of voters out there that fall for the GOPs ruse.

How do we fight it?

1: Start by admiting that Rove, Hannity, Rush, O'Rielly, and all the others are actually good at what they do (Rush is a MASTER and I listen to him in awe as he twists and turns his argument with the skill of a true artist).

2: The GOP spent 40 years planning and then executing their path to victory. We need to use them as a model, and cut short the learning curve by studying what they did (simply put, they mastered the grass roots campaign, and used the Theory of Fear Management right out of the textbook). We can do it in 5 years by simply re-using their plan.

3: Take a smart page out of their playbook. When we're accused of being "liberal" embrace it - don't run from it. When we're accused of something terrible - laugh and tell the reporter it's a fiction made up by Cheney. Tell Cheney to F-Off while you're at it. Practice the art of linking everything back to a common theme - Iraq, poverty, competence - whatever.

4: Agree on some basic guiding principles and stop all the in-fighting. What's important now is that we WIN - not that we get everything we want.

And so much more.

When will the Dem party get their act together?

[mirandapriestly]

1. Make elections transparent THEN we will continue to win nt

[IndyOp]

2. LoveYa MP! Message Means NOTHING until ALL votes counted and

reported honestly. And I disagree with the OP on 'how' we might best adjust the message -- sounds like DLC talking points on how we too can become Rethuglicans.

:thumbsdown:

[jrd200x]

7. DOn't want to become Repubs - just beat them

I don't even want to become anything like the Repubs - I just want to win.

You can whine about DLC talking points all you want - but we still continue to LOSE elections to these thugs - and I do know we're not playing the same game as them. Until we can play the same game - and win - we will lose.

Easy to be a critic - much harder to offer solutions.

[IndyOp]

27. JRD200X - Welcome to DU! I had not noticed you are

new. Sincerely, welcome! :hi:

And as for your point that we keep LOSING elections - PAH!

The elections keep being stolen out from under us. Google "181818" for evidence of stolen elections in Texas. There is compelling evidence of election fraud in elections held in 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005.

We need EXCELLENT candidates.
We need an EXCELLENT - all Democractic Party, all the time - message.
And we need a 50-state plan to inhibit, investigate, indict and imprison Rethuglican election fraudsters.

Stick around DU for an education re: Election Fraud & Reform.

:bounce:

[jrd200x]

4. Yes, another thing they do better than us

is to cheat on elections and then cover it up. I'm not suggesting we become like them - but we could learn from them on how to fight the results of the election. They did an awesome job kicking our ass$ in 2000 - started with Fox news anouncing him as a winner, then the fake "mobs" in Florida, Katherine Harris, and the courts. They had all the pieces in place before it even happened.

Tell me, how many Sec of State in the fifty states are the campaign managers of the guy running for election. I know of at least two: Ohio and Florida. Do you think this was a coincidence?

[napi21]

5. I agree with the original poster on this one. Remember...

you gotta play the hand you're dealt!

We can bitch about unfair elections, dirty tricks, and everything else, but all that doesn't matter. To win the game, you gotta play BETTER than the opposition!

[skipos]

28. We did really well in 05 (VA, NJ, CA) and we can do well in 06. nt

[FormerDittoHead]

30. I don't think we should be satisfied with 50.0000001% majority...

You see, 50.00000000000001% isn't enough for me.

If the elections weren't so close to begin with, Diebold wouldn't be a factor.

We should stop thinking about winning the 50.00000000000001% and a razor's edge of electoral votes and think about THE *OVERWHELMING* MAJORITY.

I'm talking about selling, NOT selling OUT.

Politically, the only ground the Republicans have given up is as a result of their own incompetence, lack of results & corruption, but they haven't given up an *INCH* philosophically. We have to win the IDEA game.

We have to make most people look at conservative "ideals" and have them see it as the lies, deception and fantasy that it is. As long as what they spout "sounds" reasonable to most people, they will maintain a political foothold.

One example: every time a politician cries out about high taxes, the response should NOT be, "Yes! I know what to best to do with MY money", it should rather be, "OK, then exactly how do you propose to pay for the services we need that only the government can provide, and who's going to look after my interests against big business?"

If we managed to do that, we'd be in power and could call any shots we wanted re: election fraud.

[xchrom]

3. read machiavelli -- become very familiar with him

believe that liberals, socialists, lefties are right in the bottom your heart -- and go get 'em.

if we don't become as ruthless and calculated as they are{not just here, but in europe as well} then we will lose for far longer than people think.

the assension of neoliberalism in liberal politics insures a very long hiatus in the desert otherwise.

[jrd200x]

9. Yes Yes Yes. That's what they do

Repubs NEVER give in - never admit they're wrong - never admit failure. They stay on message. Why can't we?

It's really simple - yet we over-engineer and over-complicate it. Yes, it's because liberals are SMARTER and more EDUCATED.

And guess what - the GOP has discovered how to use this against us.

When they accuse a liberal of something you see the liberal getting all introspective about it - "maybe I did something wrong", "maybe you have a point" blah blah blah.

The Repub sits back and laughs at us while we stammer and try to make up excuses.

"Did you smoke pot in the 60s Mr. Candidate?" "DAMN RIGHT I DID. NEXT QUESTION"

[xchrom]

16. that's a beginning -- but you have

to be willing to destroy them.

remember they are backed by the corporate ''elite''{i hate that word}, they use as their foot soldiers the religous fanatics, the dlc are an offshoot of the same guiding pnac philosophy, etc

this ''war''{i don't mean iraq} is deep -- and we should play it like it actually is -- this time frame makes the robber barrons of days gone by look naive.

[jrd200x]

21. Yes of course - they are good at that also

It was Lee Atwater who said he didn't want to stop at winning - he wanted to destroy the Democratic part. We have to play the same game.

Why can't we destroy the GOP? We don't even have make shitt up like they do. They have enough real stuff out there.

Again - intelligence gets in the way. We KNOW what will happen long-term. And it's not good. The GOP governs like there is no future where they will not be in control.

[rockymountaindem]

6. I nominate this as the best first post ever

I agree with you.

[TheCowsCameHome]

8. Welcome to DU. Good post.

[jrd200x]

10. Thanks I've been a lurker for awhile

Thanks, I've been reading for a year but finally got a login ID when I went to donate a few weeks ago.

[TheCowsCameHome]

14. Lurk no more. DU is a great place to state your case.

[Warpy]

11. WRONG. The pubbies pander to their base of Calvinists

The Dems have taken the working class for granted for the past 37 years, and it shows very badly.

Who'd vote for business as usual? At least the pubbies offered working stiffs the illusion of a tax cut. The Dems have offered NOTHING.

And they're still sitting around with their thumbs up their asses, wondering why they're out of power in all 3 branches of government while trying to undercut Dean whenever he opens his mouth.

WAKE UP people! The reasons the Demos are losing is because they deserve to lose. Any party that abandons its traditional base deserves to lose. Until they realize this simple fact, they'll stay losers.

Remember, we can't do anything about the corrupt voting process until we get enough votes to overcome the "flip," and we won't do that by ignoring working class economic issues.

[jrd200x]

18. Yes they do - but it's more than that

only about 30% of Americans are, as you say, Calvinists. I think they call themelves "Evangelicals" now.

The rest are just sheep to the slaughter.

I don't think Dems have abandoned their base as much as they have, incorrectly, bitten on the morals and values argument - another "setup" by the republicans.

I agree, Dems deserve to lose - but it's because their campaign stractegy stinks and so have their candidates.

[Warpy]

23. I agree about the strategy, disagree about the candidates

Anyone who followed the BCCI investigation knew Kerry was the right guy at exactly the right time. Alas, he was burdened by corporate lobbyists turned DLC campaign handlers, got wretchedly bad advice, and didn't win enough of a margin to compensate for that 4% vote "flip" by crooked voting systems.

The Dems really haven't been hammering the values argument. If they had, and the values had consisted of economic fairness and the empowerment of the working majority, they wouldn't have suffered so many near misses that the pubbies were able to steal.

Again, any party that abandons its base will lose and keep losing until it smartens up and dumps the elitists at the top. The pubbies did that when they pushed the plutocracy into the background and the religious nutcases out front. It's time for the Dems to consider just what needs to be done to mend some serious fences with its own base, sick of being ignored for 37 years and largely staying home on election day.

[NanceGreggs]

12. You've made several good points.

However, part of the Republican 'winning strategery' is based on things that we just won't do -- or shouldn't do.

We know that THEY have the Diebold edge, and we now have proof (GAO Report) that they are more than willing to manipulate vote counts through use of these machines, as well as voter intimidation at polling places, taking registered Dem voters off lists, etc.
They cheat -- do WE really want to go that route?

We know they campaign on issues that sound good to the voters, but are detrimental to the country as a whole. The 'tax breaks' they campaigned on in 2000 was music to a lot of middle and lower class ears. Of course, we now know who got those 'breaks', and what it has done to the economy. WE, on the other hand, wouldn't (or shouldn't) promise things that sound good in a campaign speech, but would ruin the country economically once enacted.

IMHO, the focus in 2006 and 2008 should not be adopting THEIR ways -- we should focus on the fact that OUR WAY is the BETTER WAY for all Americans. And the biggest focus should be pointing out all of the failures of this Administration -- and God knows, there are enough of them to point the spotlight on, over and over and over again.

[mrcheerful]

13. Besides after 8 years of campaign speech's

and photo ops, instead of actually saying anything about what they are doing, I think americans are getting fed up with it. What good is talking about what your going to do if your not willing to put it into action. The GOP (Greedy Old Party) isn't doing good campaigns, they are good at telling people what they want to hear then using fear or distractions or slander to show their opponent as something less human then they are. What the Democratic party needs to do is stick to the message and when attacked, they take the attack apart simply and quickly. After the greed and corruption of the last 5 years I think america is waking up, now remember fundies and racists and other assorted nuts won't vote for dem's mainly because they have their agendas and the dems won't cave into their demands.

[agincourt]

15. Get American school children informed on propaganda

None of these "MASTER" propaganda techniques work, like projection, straw man, phony relativeness, emotional lever pulling, if people are on to them beforehand. Americans have been dumb on propaganda and imprinting over the last 25 years. Coincidence? That's when conservatives got their hooks in our public schools. Intelligent design and creationism should be taught in our public schools to show how well funded lies work. In a civics or government class of course. Look how taliborg GOPigs have used the sacrifice and blood of soldiers to hurt liberals. Show in a history class how other countries and cultures have done this too. I bet the Nazi often used the stench of WW1 dead to hurt the Social Democrats.

[chaumont58]

17. It might help to leave Bob Shrum at home

Shrum is 0 for 8, in presidential campaigns. It might be good to make sure the entire beltway Democratic establishment has a much smaller voice in campaigns.

[xchrom]

19. you might try reading this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2289474

and go to the link there.

[Talismom]

20. We won't beat republicans 'til we're better than them at stealing votes!

I think we'll reach that point long before our folks inside the beltway learn how to campaign!

[jrd200x]

22. Well, at least better at exposing their vote stealing

I don't want to become them - lying cheating thugs.

But I do want to beat them. Whey didn't we have Poll Monitors questiong every Repug like they did?

[BJW]

24. principles of judo--weakness as strength; strength as weakness

[wakeme2008]

25. Not always True...

Kilgore lost the race to Kaine(d) for governor not as some assume because of Warner, but Kilgore REALLLLLY pissed people off with his ads especially his ad the Kaine would not execute Hilter.

On election day at the RR I am working at people voted for Kaine because they really did not like Kilgore. As my Repug voting boss said, "I held my nose and voted straigh Dem.".....

[Joe Chi Minh]

26. You haven't been paying attention to the elections, have you?

Strange that you should be pronouncing on them so "authoritatively".

[Skwmom]

29. The Dems won't win until they run a candidate that most Americans can

believe in.

[cantstandbush]

31. Actually, we beat them in the last two elections at the Pres. level.

Both elections were stolen.

[AX10]

32. I agree. We better master the 'art of the campaign'.

Yes, we do need a balance to Hitler Hannity and Rushco, etc.
We need our own "noise machine".