Have you noticed that no other democrats support Joe Lieberman

[LynneSin]

I mean we have a variety of support for withdrawal of some form even from the most forible warhawks like Murtha (Get out Now) to Clinton (get out by 2007). But the one thing that the democrats are all screaming about is 'GET OUT OF IRAQ'

We all fret & worry about Joe Lieberman but personally I think he's in the process of being neutered by his own party. They won't toss Lieberman out (and I would be pissed if they did - he's still a strong supporter of choice & the environment). However not one single democrat has come out and said "I agree with Joe Lieberman". Yet just recently Democratic big names like Pelosi, Clinton and even Joe "Make a New Plan, Stan" Biden have come out demanding an exit strategy of some form.

Joe will easily win his re-election bid in 2006 and we need that seat to say in the "D" column. More "D" than "R" means we control the flow of legislation on the floor and we control the committees. And with that control we have a chance at forcing an exit strategy on Bush and investigating the crimes that have occured with this war. Joe Lieberman may vote against the democrats but even Zell Miller stuck with the slim democratic majority back in 2001 when Jeffords defected and Miller was 2000% worse than Lieberman.

And this time we have democratic leaders who aren't as ineffectual as Dashcle and Gephardt were. With Nancy Pelosi backing Murtha with the the exit strategy it feels good that a Speaker Pelosi will make this top priority if we can deliver her a house majority. Reid hasn't come across as strong about it as others in the Senate but I feel with Kerry, Feingold, Kennedy and even now Biden & Clinton wanting strategies, we could possibly get this even if we lose a Lieberman on the vote.

The best way to fight Joe Lieberman is by going to the press. Write your letters to the editor and call into shows if you can. Let your own senators & representatives know you support Murtha & Pelosi (well if they're democrats. If they're republicans or Joe Lieberman I guess you're screwed)

[ladjf]

1. There is no doubt that Lieberman is a liability to America and

the Democratic Party. We should encourage him to change parties. As far as I know, he votes with the Republicans anyway.

[LynneSin]

3. ALLRIGHT!!!! WOOHOO!!! REPUBLICANS ARE FINALLY PRO-CHOICE

AND PRO-ENVIRONMENT.

Damn, this is such a wonderous relief of mine because these issues are not only important to us here at DU, but according to NARAL(Choice) and LCV(environment) Joe Lieberman has a 100% rating in these areas so they must be important to him too. ANd since you've pointed out that Joe votes with republicans anyways I guess it means we've won the battle on choice & clean environment.

I'm going to rush home right now and sit in front of my TV waiting for the exciting announcement of how Republicans think our environment is important enough to keep it clean and that women are smart enough to make their own choices without the interference of religious nutbags.

Do you think CNN, MSNBC or Fox will have better coverage of this historic event?

[MrBenchley]

8. I'm afraid your irony falls on deaf ears....

None are pure enough to stand with some of our "teen progressives" at DU.

[LynneSin]

11. Thanks sweetie

I can't stand Lieberman but I'll fucking use him to hold on to a safe seat and gain the democratic majority.

And what many folks fail to recognize was that Lieberman helped bring down Enron. Remember when Bush was first elected and energy costs went throught he roof in California. Bush & the republicans refused to do anything about it. It was kinda "California made their bed let them sleep on it" mentality.

Jeffords defected and Lieberman got the chair of the GAO, a committee chair usually reserved for senior members of the party that you don't want to give an important position like Judiciary or Foreign Affair. But once Lieberman became chair his committee decided to investigate the California Energy crisis. Energy costs came down and Enron didn't make enough money off the scame to recoupe decades of books cooking.

He's not my starting rotation but once in a blue moom you can pull a Lieberman off the bench and he'll get a hit for you in a pinch

[MrBenchley]

16. It's amazing that some people here

seem to have no idea how Congress works, or how politics is played.

And you're absolutely right about Enron and the Energy crisis....Joe is wrong about the war, but he's oin the side of the angels on a lot of issues.

[mtnsnake]

32. You're making perfect sense, Mr B.

All too often, too many people are willing to cast off someone entirely if that person doesn't fit their criteria of "perfection" to the T. You could have any Dem politician who's considered garbage here if he or she is 10% shy of being "perfect" in their minds. It's sad that someone who's only 90% "perfect" can be hurled aside like junk. Now I'm not saying Lieberman is close to perfect; he's far from it, but he's not 100% evil either.

Hillary is probably a better example for me to use because I think she's more misunderstood on this forum than anywhere else. I think most people on this forum totally cast her aside as junk because they feel she's totally useless, when the fact is that she's probably closer to their core ideals than they realize....but she has to play the game of politics in order to put us into a position of winning again...and that turns people off here in the short run. We gotta look at the big picture and realize that half these people are playing it along in order to get to where we wanna be. Once we're there, these politicians will get to OUR priorities.

[MrBenchley]

35. Thank you....

Can I add I'm also damn fed up with what I call the "teen progressives" who seem to exist only to castigate Democrats for shortcomings and sneer about their fellow Americans as "sheeple" and "lemmings"?

Hillary is coasting to victory with a big margin over her opponent in 2006. The only Republican who's filed to run against Joe Lieberman spent time in prison.

http://news.newstimeslive.com/story.php?id=77108&category=Politics

Lynnesin pointed out in another thread yesterday that there are 80 seats around the country that have no Democratic challenger. I'd rather work toward getting centrist Democrats who can win in those races than sit around listening to purists complain that two of our strongest candidates have to be purged...

[ladjf]

37. Whatever Lieberman's votes were, they never were the deciding

votes as the Pubs did whatever they wanted. Where's the "irony"?

"Teen Progressive" (70 yr. old American who is very concerned about the current political situation.)

[ladjf]

36. Lieberman spoke in the Senate castigating Clinton, he played

a significant role in the loss of the election in 2000 and he has spoken in support of Bush's policies at every important juncture. His votes with the Democrats haven't signified anything since the Pubs had the majority anyway. I stated my honest opinion that the Dems would be better off without Lieberman. Why all the sarcasm?
Aren't we on the same side?

[Bill McBlueState]

7. wrong

When it comes time to vote for Senate leadership, Democrats vote for Democrats. It makes no sense to help the other party maintain their majority.

If you want Leahy to chair the judiciary committee instead of Specter, you'd better be trying to get as many Democrats as possible into the Senate, even if they aren't all ideological clones of yourself.

[onenote]

17. "as far as I know"?

There this called the Internet. You can use it look up stuff. Like a Senator's voting record. I'll help you out. Here's a link.
http://www.adaction.org/ADATodayVR2004.pdf
Check out Lieberman. Then check out the average Repub. Yeah, ol' Joe's voting record is a bit below that of the average Democrat (although not the lowest among Dems). But its hugely better than the voting record of the average Repub

For good measure, here's how the conservatives view ol' Joe:

http://www.acuratings.com/singlerecord.asp?RepID=119&RatingsYear=2004
.

Sorry for seeming sarcastic, but I get frustrated with posts that indicate the poster has formed an opinion without trying to educate him/her self. I have stated before and will state again that I'm not a big fan of Joe, but there's little doubt in my mind I would vote for him over ANY repub.

onenote

[LynneSin]

21. I'm sorry, I'm only familiar with the Internets

:shrug:

[onenote]

23. LynneSin --My post was responding to ladjf, not you

If you look carefully, you'll see its indented "under" ladjf's post, not yours

onenote

[LynneSin]

29. I'm sorry, I forgot this with my message

:sarcasm:

I guess I posted it because I'm this sarcastic smile and your post was well thoughtout but yet when folks like us post out these well thoughtout items complete with facts to back us up, somehow someone will accuse us of being wrong or something out there

:hug:

[onenote]

31. no problem!

[Douglas Carpenter]

41. actually (aside from Iraq) he rarely votes with the Republicans

This is a comparison with McCain which I made on another post..Remember McCain is one of the most moderate Republicans:

They both hold equally deplorable positions on Iraq. But let's compare on other issues.

link:

from project vote smart - link

for Lieberman

http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=S0141103

for McCain link:

http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=S0061103

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 0 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 83 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 22 percent in 2003-2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 75 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 35 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 83 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 33 percent in 2004.


2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 92 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 9 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the National Education Association 88 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Education Association 35 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 88 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 25 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 95 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 14 percent in 2003-2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 50 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Family Research Council 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Family Research Council 67 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 83 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 72 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Concerned Women for America 8 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Concerned Women for America 100 percent in 2003-2004.

[wtmusic]

2. Joe has become the Republican poster boy for 'bipartisan support'

Joe will never give up on the war. He truly believes that if we just throw the bad Iraqis in jail and pat the good ones on the head this whole mess will clear itself up. :silly:

[LynneSin]

5. Great, let him be that poster boy

Since it seems no other democrat thinks like him let's use him for his "D" seat so we can get the majority. We can still count on Joe for other social issues like Choice, Environment and even Campaign Finance reform. But if we had Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and people like JOhn Kerry running the Judiciary Committee then maybe we can fix some of the problems Bush has caused these past 5 years AND get a debate on the floor about an exit strategy.

I can assure you that the future Republican Majority Leader (if they are in charge still in 2006) won't consider any of these things!

[Double T]

4. REAL DEMOCRATS SHOULD NOT SUPPORT republican MINDED......

'DEMOCRATS' like Joe Lieberman.

[LynneSin]

9. And not only do we not support him neither are others in DC

I'm in no way supporting him, I'm using him. He can blather on all he wants but I want his "69% popularity in Connecticut" to hold on to that seat in 2006 for the "D" so that we can get the majority leadership in Harry Reid's hands

[Bill McBlueState]

10. real Democrats

should try to get majorities in both houses of Congress.

[bigbrother05]

14. Am reminded of a story Gore told on his father.

His dad was accused of being such a die-hard Democrat that he would vote for Satan himself if he were on the ticket. The elder Gore (according to his son) replied, "Yeah, but not in the primary."

Think that most Dems could agree to a similar strategy for Joe if it meant controlling the Senate.

[Double T]

18. Great story but Satan already stole the election for the White House...

twice!!!

[ladjf]

38. The biggest blunder Gore made in 2000 was to include

Lieberman as the VP candidate.

[tx_dem41]

6. Obviously Connecticut Democrats do. n/t

[Neil Lisst]

12. Lynne, I agree with almost all your original post.

But I think the best way to fight Joe Lieberman is to ignore him, to minimize him. I'm fine with him in the party, but why give him any play on this issue?

Better to talk about the 99% of Dems who don't agree with him.

[LynneSin]

13. Unfortunately all we talk about is booting him out of the party

but I do think it's important that we do call our senators and representatives and let them know that we support an exit strategy.

Lieberman will put himself so far out on a limb the branch will break

[onenote]

19. if 99 percent of Dems don't agree with him, how did he get reelected

with 64 percent of the vote in a state that has three repub congressman and repub governor?

onenote

[LynneSin]

33. I think we all need to recognize that we, the internet libereal community.

are not the majority.

You know, up until the start of primary day in 2004 I swore that Howard Dean was going to win big in Iowa & New Hampshire. I went to all the local "Meet-ups", voted in all the online polls and donate to all the online communties that supported Howard Dean. Every site I read on the internets was out there screaming "DEAN DEAN DEAN" and I just knew we had the right guy.....


....That is until the start of the Primary Season. That was a major wakeup call.

On another thread a poster commented that outside of Delaware, democrats did not like Joe Biden. It made me think more about the internet liberal communities vs. reality.

Reality is Joe Biden & Joe Lieberman are two very popular and very well known democrats. Each usually wins their state with relative ease and neither usually face any competition in the primaries. Both have strong name recognition outside of their own state. Does that mean that for some bizarro freak of nature reason that Connecticutians & Delawareans are crazed democrats that go against the grain of what everyone else believes.

Or have we, the internet community, been basing our decisions on the idea that what we hold to be true here on the internet might not be the actual reality for all democrats. HOward Dean was the most popular candidate based on his efforts utilizing the internets and yet on primary election day everyone voted for Kerry. Joe Lieberman and Joe Biden are 2 very hated democrats on the internets with democrats and yet each will easily win re-election campaigns in their home state.

I'm not trying to disregard the online community; in fact, I believe that it was the growth of the online community during Howard Dean's campaign that helped him to get the DNC chairmanship. The internet community is still the minority but with the help of Howard Dean we can hopefully make a push to get more people involved both online and off.

But in the meantime, we also need to remember that we can complain about the war, bitch about a senator and do all this yakking but we're still facing a very limited audience to who is getting our message. Now more than ever we need to utilize non-internet resources in order to help get our message out there.

[applegrove]

15. Keep the fight on the up and up. Lieberman represents one wing of

the party and he is still representative of that wing. Ignore him - and focus on Bush and the WH.

[awoke_in_2003]

20. That is because he is a DINO..

repub-Lite, whatever you want to call him- he is a shill

[leveymg]

22. Prediction: Joe's going to be McCain's runningmate in '08.

They're going to try to capture the moderate swing voters and disaffected Republicans with a fence-straddling strategy. The ticket will have some sort of tired but familiar slogan, such as "United We Stand."

Unfortunately, that'll be a tough ticket to beat. We need to figure out what to do about it. Trying to squeeze Lieberman out of the Party might just give him additional moderate credentials and hasten that eventual GOP ticket.

[onenote]

24. as a third party ticket?

Or do you think the repubs are going to nominate McCain/Lieberman.

onenote

[leveymg]

26. Depends on what happens in the 2006 elections

If there's a disasterous loss for the GOP, the "moderates" will take over that Party. In that case, they'll want to broaden their appeal to the middle. Running a moderate Repub with a conservative DINO as Veep would symbolize that.

On the other hand -- if the GOP loses just a few seats, the hard Right will probably stay in charge, and the GOP ticket will reflect that. That would be sure presecription for a loss of the WH. If McCain/Lieberman are spun-off, that will randomize the outcome, so such a Third Party ticket is a real possibility as it's likely to make a Dem victory in '08 less of a certainty.

What do you all think?

[onenote]

27. Lieberman will never be nominated by the repubs

Even if you assume a "moderate" takeover -- (and where are all these moderate repubs going to come from -- are they all hiding with Osama now?) there is no way that they'd nominate Joe -- he's pro choice, pro environment, pro gun control, just to name a few issues. The result would be a right wing third party movement that would ensure the election of a Democrat. And the current party establishment will never accept that. I could see them nominating McCain if they take a major beating in 2006, but if anything, they'll pick someone from the rightwing of the party as his running mate, not someone who gets zero ratings from the American Conservative Union.

onenote

[UrbScotty]

25. Have you noticed that Joe Lieberman supports no other Democrats? (nt)

[safi0]

28. If you guys really

Want to get Lieberman out, start a draft-Richard Blumenthal movement. He is the only Dem in CT who can beat Joe in a primary. If your not willing to do this stop bitching about him.

[LynneSin]

30. I'm not bitching about Lieberman

nor do I find it good use of my time to recruit a candidate to run against someone which has (according to the recent numbers at SurveyUSA) a 69% approval rating in his home state. I want senate/house control and just feel there are more important senate races to concentrate my efforts - like getting rid of Rick Santorum

I'm bitching about the people who are bitching about Lieberman and posting about how they want him tossed out of the party. I think that's a silly idea since it's the republicans - the true 110% bush-loving republicans. Not some rogue democrat who, according to the ADA, voted 75% of the time with his own damn party

[safi0]

39. I wasn't talking about

You, I'm in complete agreement with what your saying. My post was intended for those who just complain about him. I simply offered a solution for them, Blumenthal could defeat Lieberman in a primary and would still win in a GE

[onenote]

34. Blumenthal -- interesting situation

The guy is a superstar in Connecticut and has the credentials to be a player on the national stage. Son of a wealthy German immigrant;e graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Harvard; captained the swim team; was editorial chairman of the Harvard Crimson. At age 24, he reportedly turned down the directorship of VISTA and enlisted in the Marines. Next he went to Yale Law School, becoming an editor of the Yale Law Journal and then clerking for Supreme Court Justice Harry Blackmun. After that he went to work for Sen. Abe Ribicoff becoming the youngest US attorney in history in 1977. He entered politics in the 1980s, winning election to the Connecticut state House and Senate. Since 1990 he's been the state's Attorney General.

So the question is, why hasn't he run for higher office...there's a republican governor...why not go after that position? If he won't run against the repub governor, what's the likelihood he'll go after Lieberman (who was his predecessor as Attorney Gen, by the way)?

Anyone know why Blumenthal has held back?

onenote

[safi0]

40. Party loyalty and being

In the wrong place at the wrong time. If Joe had decided to not seek re-election while running for VP ala Edwards Blumenthal would be a US Senator right now. As far as running for Gov. there's never seemed to be a good time for him to run.