Newsweek: The Democrats' Own Quagmire

[TexasPatriot]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3770217/

Dean says he thought the war was a terrible blunder, but now that we're there, we should stay and see it through. This makes no sense

By Fareed Zakaria

Dec. 29/Jan. 5 issue - The effort by his democratic rivals to portray Howard Dean as the reincarnation of George McGovern will not work. Dean is not a peacenik. If you read his foreign-policy speech given in Los Angeles on Dec. 15—the one being roundly criticized—you will be struck by how centrist and sensible it is. In it, Dean is tough on terrorism and proposes several intelligent policies, such as a vastly bigger effort to deal with "loose nukes" in the former Soviet Union and beyond. He outlines a vigorous, internationalist foreign policy that is not much different from that of the other Democratic candidates. And yet his position on the Iraq war will plague him, politically and intellectually.

--snip--

the article posits a fairly simple question.

[Jack_Dawson]

1. Our ticket to an electoral trainwreck

Well...at least the mainstream press is finally putting Dr. Dean in the same general ballpark of scrutiny as they've been putting Clark, Kerry and Gebhardt.

I don't have high hopes for the electoral outcome of a Dean nomination. Us losing 44-6 is my guess. Hope I'm wrong.

[neuvocat]

3. I wonder how Dean's supporters will explain this one?

Clark insisted on a gradual withdrawl when Dean's supporters said that it wasn't good enough, that the troops should be brought home like yesterday.

[dajabr]

4. Wrong...

4/09/2003:

"A democratic transition will take between 18 to 24 months, although troops should expect to be in Iraq for a longer period."

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_policy_foreign_iraq_reconstruction

[windansea]

7. something like this

[jmaier]

10. Nope.

I honestly don't think Dean has the Gore 2000 states in the bag if he should become the nominee but I really don't see losing CA, NY & IL to Bush/Rove. I also believe that he is more likely to carry PA & MI than WV. Frankly, WI will be close. Just my $.02

[windansea]

13. this is Dukakis map

just an example for the poster I replied to.

[Jack_Dawson]

11. Think you got your colours reversed

[OKNancy]

12. The incumbent party is listed in blue

I can't give a link, but I read that somewhere.

[Toucano]

16. Thanks for that explanation.

I keep seeing them "mixed up" and I never realized the pattern.

[killbotfactory]

2. Dean doesn't want to abandon Iraq...

Because the power vacuum it would create could turn it into another Iran, or cause a civil war, or make it a terrorist haven, and it would then become a danger to the US as well as falling back on a promise we made when invaded the goddamn country. I guess for Iraq war supporters, the idea of thinking ahead is a difficult one to grasp.

[silverchair]

5. i tell ya,

we are so screwed in 2004.

[Jack_Dawson]

6. you got THAT right

[killbotfactory]

17. Why?

Because some guy doesn't understand why it would be a problem to cut and run from Iraq?

[stopbush]

8. An entire article written just to associate "Quagmire" with Dems!!

Why'd he even bother writing the rest of the screed? Quagmire had been used to describe Vietnam and increasingly Iraq. That plays bad for repigs who accuse Dems of "losing" Vietnam, even though Nixon ended the war.

With Iraq, they've got a new quagmire on their hands. So they take a page out of Orwell and attack the language. Attach the negative term to the Dems in any way possible. You can fully expect the repig talking heads to pick up on this, à la "which quagmire would you be referring to? The one the Democrat candidates find themselves in? That's the only thing that looks like a quagmire to me."

And, voila, the whole Vietnam quagmire association with Iraq will disappear like magic.

Slimey stuff.

[OKNancy]

9. I feel like Cher in "Moonstruck"

I just want to say, "Snap out of it"

[BootinUp]

14. The author is mentally retarded

His opening line is bullshit:

"Dean says he thought the war was a terrible blunder, but now that we're there, we should stay and see it through. This makes no sense."

When a country invades and occupies another it has a responsibility to restore it to some resonable stable condition. So starting the article like that is a clue that the rest of it is crap. That doesn't mean I agree or disagree with the rest, just that it is a waste of time to read.

[paulthompson]

15. Don't forget who the author is!

Fareed Zakaria is no ordinary journalist. He's a member of the Bilderberg group, a top secret collection of the elite of the elites, having attended their latest meeting.

Here are articles about that meeting from the BBC and Asia Times:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3031717.stm

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EE22Ak03.html

Zakaria's purpose is to put forth a more "liberal" defense of the neo-con global plans, arguing yes they're problematic, but they're necessary on humanitarian and democratic grounds. He writes variations of that almost every week in Newsweek. If you judge someone by their enemies, the fact that Zakaria is going after Dean is the highest compliment for Dean, in my book.

Below is the list of attendees from the most recent meeting. In addition to the usual neo-con core, like Kissinger, Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Powell (he gave a speech), and the like, note other media apologists like the supposedly liberal Thomas Friedman of the New York Times, or people from the Wall Street Journal, Economist, Telegraph, and so on. If you go back to previous year's lists, you'll find even more media whores to watch out for.



2003 Agenda -- from Bilderberg Press Release
"The conference will deal mainly with European-American relations and in this context Iraq, The Middle East after Terrorism, Non-Proliferation, The European Convention, Economic Problems." (rest of 'press release' much like previous years but no participant list yet)
2003 Participant list
BILDERBERG MEETINGS
Versailles, France, 15-18th May 2003
CURRENT LIST OF PARTICIPANTS
B - Honorary Chairman - Davignon, Etienne - Vice-Chairman, Societe Generale de Belgique
GB - Honorary Secretary General - Taylor. J Martin - Chairman WH Smith PLC; International advisor, Goldman Sachs International
F - Adler, Alexandre - Editorial counsel, Le Figaro (*)
I - Ambrosetti, Alfredo - Chairman Ambrosetti Group
TR - Babacan, Ali - Minister of Economic Affairs
GR - Bakoyannis, Dora - Mayor of Athens
GB - Balls, Edward - Chief Economic Advisor to the Treasury
P - Balsemão, Francisco Pinto - Professor of Communication Science, New University, Lisbon; Chairman and CEO, IMPRESA, S.G.P.S.; Former Prime Minister
P - Barroso, José M. Durão - Prime Minister
TR - Bayar, Mehmet A. - Deputy Chairman of DYP (True Path Party)
A - Becker, Erich - Chairman of the Managing Board and CEO, VA Technologie AG
I - Bendetti, Rodolfo de - Managing Director CIR S.p.A.
I - Bernabè, Franco - Chairman Franco Bernabe & C. S.p.A.
F - Beytout, Nicolas - Editor-in-Chief, Les Echos
KW - Bishara, Ahmad E. - Secretary General of Kuwait's liberal National Democratic Party
CDN - Black, Conrad M. - Chairman, Telegraph Group Limited
INT - Bolkestein, Frits - Internal Markets Commissioner, European Commission
USA - Bolton, John R. - Under-Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security
F - Bon, Michel - Honorary Chairman, France Telecom
F - Bruguière, Jean-Louis - First Vice President, Justice Department
D - Burda, Hubert - Publisher and CEO, Hubert Burda Media Holding GmbH & Co.
F - Camus, Phillipe - CEO, European Aeronautics Defence and Space company European Aeronautics Defence and Space company (EADS)
INT - Cary, Anthony J. - Head of Christopher Patten's cabinet, EU.
F - Castries, Henri de - Chairman of the Board, AXA
E - Cebrián, Juan Luis - CEO, PRISA
B - Claes, Willy - Minister of State
GB - Clarke, Kenneth - Member of Parliament,
USA - Collins, Timothy C. - Senior Managing Director and CEO, Ripplewood Holdings LLC
F - Collomb, Bertrand - Chairman and CEO, Lafarge
F - Copé, Jean-François - Secretary of State in charge of relations with Parliament; Government Spokesman
USA - Corzine, Jon S. - Senator (D, New Jersey)
S - Dahlbäck, Claes - Chairman, Investor AB
GR - David, George A. - Chairman of the Board, Coca-Cola H.B.C. S.A.
USA - Donilon, Thomas E. - Executive Vice President, Fannie Mae
I - Draghi, Mario - Vice-Chairman and Managing Director, Goldman Sachs International
DK - Eldrup, Anders - CEO, Danish Oil and Gas Corporation
USA - Feldstein, Martin S. - President and CEO, National Bureau of Economic Research
CDN - Fell, Anthony S. - Chairman, RBC Dominion Securities Inc.
USA - Friedman, Thomas L. - Foreign Affairs Columnist, The New York Times
F - Gergorin, Jean-Luis - Executive Vice President, Strategic Coordination, European Aeronautics Defence and Space company (EADS)
USA - Gigot, Paul A. - Editorial page editor, The Wall Street Journal
F - Giscard d'Estaing, Valéry - French President 1974-81; Chairman of the Convention on the Future of Europe
N - Gjedrem, Svein - Governor, Central Bank of Norway
IRL - Gleeson, Dermot - Chairman designate, Allied Irish Banks, p.l.c.
GB - Gould, Philip - Public Relations Adviser to Prime Minister Blair
USA - Haass, Richard N. - Director, Office of Policy Planning Staff, State Department
NL - Halberstadt, Victor - Professor of Economics, Leiden University; Former honorary Secretary General of Bilderberg Meetings
CDN - Harper, Stephen - Leader of the Opposition
USA - Hertog, Roger - Vice-Chairman, Alliance Capital Management
NL - Hoop Scheffer, Jaap G. de - Minister for Foreign Affairs
USA - Hubbard, Allan B. - President, E&A Industries
USA - Hubbard, R. Glenn - Russell L. Carson Professor of Economics and Finance, Columbia University
USA - Johnson, James A. - Vice Chairman, Perseus L.L.C.
USA - Jordan, Jr., Vernon E. - Senior Managing Director, Lazard Freres & Co. L.L.C.
CH - Kielholz, Walter B. - Former Chairman of the Board, Credit Suisse; Executive Vice Chairman of the Board of Directors, Swiss Re
GB - King, Mervyn A. - Deputy Governor, Bank of England
USA - Kissinger, Henry A. - Chairman, Kissinger Associates, Inc.; Member, Defense Policy Board; Member J.P. Morgan International Council
FIN - Kivinen, Olli - Senior Editor & Columnist, Helsingin Sanomat
NL - Kok, Wim - Former Prime Minister
D - Kopper, Hilmar - Former Chairman of the Supervisory Board, Deutsche Bank AG
USA - Kravis, Henry R. - Founding Partner, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co.
USA - Kravis, Marie-Joseé - Senior Fellow, Hudson Institute, Inc.
INT - Lamy, Pascal - Trade Commissioner, European Commission
F - Lellouche, Pierre - Vice Chairman, NATO Parliamentary Assembly (**)
F - Lévy-Lang, André - Former Chairman, Paribas
S - Lindh, Anna - Minister for Foreign Affairs
FIN - Lipponen, Paavo - Former Prime Minister; Speaker of the Parliament
DK - Lykketoft, Mogens - Chairman, Social Democrat Party
CDN - MacMillan, Margaret O. - Provost, Trinity College, University of Toronto
RUS - Margelov, Mikhail V. - Chairman, Committee for Foreign Affairs, Council of Federation
F - Montbrial, Thierry de - President, French Institute of International Relations (IFRI)
INT - Monti, Mario - Competition Commissioner, European Commission
USA - Mundie, Craig J. - Chief Technical Officer, Advanced Strategies and Policy, Microsoft Corporation
N - Myklebust, Egil - Chairman, Norsk Hydro ASA
D - Naas, Matthias - Deputy Editor, Die Zeit
NL - Netherlands, H.M. the Queen of the
PL - Olechowski, Andrzej - Leader, Civic Platform
FIN - Ollila, Jorma - Chairman of the Board and CEO, Nokia Corporation
INT - Padoa-Schioppa, Thomasso - Member of the Executive Board, European Central Bank
I - Panara, Marco - Journalist, La Republica
I - Passera, Corrado - Managing Director, Banca IntesaBCI
USA - Perkovich, George - Vice President for Studies, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
USA - Perle, Richard N. - Member, Defense Policy Board ; Resident Fellow, American Enterprise Institute (AEI) for Public Policy Research; member Project for a New American Century (PNAC)
B - Philippe, H.R.H. Prince - Crown Prince of Belgium
I - Poli, Roberto - Chairman, Eni S.p.A.
F - Ranque, Denis - Chairman and CEO, Thales Aerospace and Defence
DK - Rasmussen, Anders Fogh - Prime Minister
CDN - Reisman, Heather - President and CEO, Indigo Books & Music Inc.
F - Riboud, Franck - Chairman and CEO, Danone Foods
CH - Ringier, Michael - CEO, Ringier AG
USA - Rockefeller, David - Member, J.P. Morgan International Council
P - Rodrigues, Eduardo Ferro - Leader of the Socialist Party; Member of Parliament
E - Rodriguez Inciarte, Matias - Executive Vice Chairman, Banco Santander Central Hispano
F - Roy, Olivier - Senior Researcher, CNRS
USA - Ruggie, John - Director, Center for Business and Government, Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University
NL - Ruys, Anthony - Chairman of the Board, Heineken N.V.
TR - Sanberk, Özdem - Director, Turkish Economic and Social Studies Foundation
I - Scaroni, Paolo - Managing Director, Enel S.p.A.
D - Schäuble, Wolfgang - Deputy Parliamentary Leader, CDU/CSU Group
D - Schily, Otto - Minister of the Interior
A - Scholten, Rudolf - Member of the Board of Executive Directors, Oesterreichische Kontrollbank AG
D - Schrempp, Jurgen E - Chairman of the Board of Management, Daimler Chrysler AG
INT - Schwab, Klaus - President, World Economic Forum
DK - Seidenfaden, Toger - Editor in Chief, Politiken
RUS - Shevtsova, Lilia - Senior Associate, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
E - Spain, H.M. the Queen of
USA - Steinberg, James B. - Vice President and Director, Foreign Policy Studies Program, The Brookings Institution
CDN - Steyn, Mark - Journalist for various publications
IRL - Sutherland, Peter D. - Chairman and Managing Director, Goldman Sachs International; Chairman, BP Amoco
USA - Thornton, John L. - President and CEO, Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.
F - Trichet, Jean Claude - Governor, Banque de France
GR - Tsoukalis, Loukas - Professor, University of Athens; President Hellenic Foundation for European and Foreign Policy
A - Trumpel-Gugerell, Gertrude - Vice Governor, Central Bank of Austria
CH - Vasella, Daniel L. - Chairman and CEO, Novartis AG
NL - Veer, Jeroen van der - President, Royal Dutch Petroleum Company; Vice Chairman of the Committee of Managing Directors of Royal Dutch/Shell Group of Companies
F - Villin, Philippe - Vice Chairman, Lehman Brothers Europe
NL - Vries, Klaas de - Member of Parliament (Labour); Former Minister of the Interior
FIN - Whalroos, Björn - President and CEO, Sampo plc.
S - Wallenberg, Jacob - Chairman of the Board, Skandinavivska Enskilda Banken
GB - Williams, Gareth - Leader of the House of Lords
GB - Wolf, Martin H. - Associate Editor/Economics Commentator, The Financial Times
USA/INT - Wolfensohn, James D. - President, The World Bank
USA - Wolfowitz, Paul - Deputy Secretary of Defense, US Department of Defense
USA - Zakaria, Fareed - Editor, Newsweek International
USA - Zoellick, Robert - Principal Trade Adviser to the President
D - Zumwinkel, Klaus - Chairman, Deutsche Post Worldnet AG
Rapporteurs
GB - Micklethwait, R. John - United States Editor, The Economist
GB - Rachman, Gideon - Brussels Correspondent, The Economist