Why did John Kerry stand for Swiftboating of John Kerry... but not Murtha?

[wakemewhenitsover]

[MrMonk]

1. Maybe he learned something from the 2004 race.

[mazzarro]

2. Maybe JFK learned his lesson - which is good by me! (eom)

[Sparkle]

3. It's probaby one of his regrets from that race.

And he won't let it happen to a good war veteran like Murtha.

[wakemewhenitsover]

6. Great photo.

[blm]

27. I think it's his innate civility and inability to brag about himself.

Like with IranContra and BCCI.

Oddly, though, BushInc had all sorts of people coming out of the woodwork to lie FOR their guy while Democrats get tongue-tied over all the TRUE accomplishments of other Democrats.

In Kerry's case, he had so many stories planted against him from Nixon years all through his Senate investigations where they labeled him as only a showboat who was trying to make a name for himself at the expense of poor Reagan and Bush - made it hard for him to talk about his own heroic efforts.

[Avalux]

4. Don't know -

why don't you write and ask him that question? He's the only one who knows.

http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/contact/email.html

[BlueIris]

17. Yeah...they say it's best to get these things straight before you judge.

:-)

[Kira]

5. I was just thinking

the exact same thing.

[blm]

7. He jumped to defend McCain when it happened. Then Cleland. Now Murtha.

Seems to me it was the media who gave short shrift to Kerry's own defense whenever it was given voice.

[Windy]

14. The media killed Kerry's campaign...

They were in full bushco support mode. Elevating the propaganda...

[Bernardo de La Paz]

8. Hey wakemewhenitsover: Wake Up! It's Over! This is 2005! 2006 is coming!

[Mass]

9. delete

[JaneQPublic]

10. I dearly wish he didn't stand for the swiftboating of Kerry

Just maybe things would be different now.

[karynnj]

11. Much harder to indignantly defend yourself

Through the years, John Kerry was the first person to defend every veteran who has been unfairly hit - usually within a day. He had fought off the SBVT twice before in the campaign. He fought back in Aug but the media played with it even after significant lies were found. (Their trick was a book with 100s of charges, hitting all simultaneously wasn't possible) Note: One flaw in the TANG story ended up with 5 people fired.

[wakemewhenitsover]

19. Interesting. What's the TANG story?

[blm]

25. Bush's TANG story on CBS.

.

[wakemewhenitsover]

30. Could someone explain?

[karynnj]

34. Dan Rather had a story that Bush 's National guard service

where if his name was not Bush, he would likely have been in major trouble. The problem was they had a document, that they send to the WH which didn't express a problem with it. Within a short time of showing it on the show, a FR blogger questioned the font.

Bush's superior was dead, but the superior's superior had confirmed the story. The secretary said she didn't think the document was authentic, BUT SHE TYPED ONE WITH SIMILAR INFORMATION.

In other words, the story was very likely true. It did lead to an uproar against Dan Rather and it discredited the whole story as far as the media was concerned.

Result: The obviously untrue SBVT were covered as "there must be something there, somewhere - even though Kerry's record was sqeaky clean - Nixon would have used anything to discredit Kerry in 1972. Instead he initiated dirty tricks and lies. Bush's likely true skirting his duty was minimized by the media.

[wakemewhenitsover]

35. Thank you! What's SBVT? Think truth will ever come out?

[Sydnie]

12. Perhaps he was waiting for someone with the same ethics and morals

would step up and speak FOR HIM as he has for these guys?

[wakemewhenitsover]

20. Great point. Where were Clinton et al. (gore)?!!!!

[karynnj]

36. Gore, Carter would have had the moral standing to do so

or one of the former generals. Clark was a surrogate and he did defend him, but there was no traction. (Blame media, not Clark)

[karynnj]

37. self-delete

[karynnj]

38. Gore, Carter would have had the moral standing to do so

or one of the former generals. Clark was a surrogate and he did defend him, but there was no traction. (Blame media, not Clark)

[BikeWriter]

23. Yep, what you said!

[warrens]

13. He didn't want to look like a scalded cat

It was really his supporters' job to shoot that crap down, and they did a poor job of it.

[frogmarch]

15. Kerry didn't want to

make the issue about himself, but about what the slimers were doing to Murtha. Murtha was the focus of his speech. Kerry knew that if he brought up what had been done to himself by the swifties, he'd be accused of making the issue about himself, rather than about the wrong being done to Murtha.

[emulatorloo]

16. Why didn't other DEMOCRATS defend John Kerry?

Kerry did have a swiftboat response, but media buried it. He had a commercial with his fellow swifties, and he mentioned in in several speeches etc.

MaX cleland went to Crawford on Kerry's behalf to demand Bush stop it, but media buried it.

But the real question is, WHY DID ALL THE OTHER MAJOR DEMOCRATS SIT ON THIER HANDS AND ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN. WHy didn't they stand up?

[BlueIris]

22. Oh, my God! A response by a sane person! Who paid attention!

THANK YOU. I get so goddamned tired of screaming these points to people who should have been paying attention not to "support our guy" (although, come on, would it have killed them?) but to support the Democratic effort. So tired.

[Fla Dem]

26. Yes, yes, yes, where were all our glorious Dems standing up for

and defending John Kerry. Had they stood like a steel wall against the slings and arrows of the RW that would have ben a proud moment.

[rfkrfk]

49. what would they say, they were not there

suppose the swiftvets say this...

John Kerry,
four and a half months in VietNam,
three purple hearts, but no service time lost to wounds,
only twice on the casualty list,
one time, treated at {the next} morning sick call ...
kunda fishy

how does someone who can't add any facts to the debate,
help here?

[ProSense]

18. Didn't Kerry have a group of his fellow veterans

speaking out about the lies at all his events?

[karynnj]

41. Yes, all but one of the crew in both his boats

they were absolutely wonderful.

[incapsulated]

21. See now, this is creative

Now that he's defending Murtha, he's still a jerk. :eyes:

Let's move on, people.

[high density]

24. 'Cuz he no longer has fools around "advising" him to do stupid things

like Bob Shrum, Mary Beth Cahill, et al.

[LittleClarkie]

32. I'm trying to remember which speech it was, VFW I think

that I read about, where Kerry was angry and planning to address the Smear vets accuations in that speech. The call came out from Shrum and Cahill "Restrain the candidate!!" they told one of the aides by Kerry.

They didn't want him to look bitter.

I think they needed a combination of the rapid response of the Clintonistas mixed with the issues Kerry could address strongly. We saw in the first debate that Kerry kicks ass in foreign policy, but the Clintonistas kept insisting that he needed to address the economy. Just as he'd make headway re: Iraq and foreign policy, they'd try to turn him to domestic issues. That might have been good for Clinton in the 90s, but not in post 9/11 America.

Some folks seem to think the Clintonistas were magic or something. The only thing I like about them is their ability to rapidly respond to an issue, rather than do what Cahill and Shrum were doing, which was to stay with whatever their plan was for the week, instead of addressing what was happening right then. I guess they thought they were dictating the agenda that way instead of letting the other side dictate it. But some things need to be responded to quickly.

Otherwise, I think their emphasis on domestic issues was wrong. The people know we are different from the Republicans on that front. They needed to know that we could deal with national security. I think Kerry was starting to convince people that he could deal with that issue strongly. That's why he started gaining momentum after that first debate. And Clinton urging Kerry to come out in favor of DOMA was just wrong.

This is why I'd like to see either Kerry or Gore try again. I do believe both have learned what not to do in a national campaign. I don't see why their experience wouldn't be valuable, you know?

[wakemewhenitsover]

39. Nothing magic about Carville these days. Just the opposite.

[wiley]

28. Wes Clark defended Kerry over and over again

It's just that so many Democrats wouldn't even acknowledge Clark, let alone support him. Clark campaigned for Kerry more than Edwards did, IMHO. If Kerry hadn't picked Edwards, we would have won by a landslide.

[blm]

29. The media wouldn't let Clark get the volume he needed. They muted him

that's for certain.

Kerry depended on him alot during the campaign. He trusted Clark way more than the usual Dem standard bearers.

[wakemewhenitsover]

31. Kerry did win. It's the voting system that's been lost.

[LittleClarkie]

43. I sorta doubt that. They tended to pretend they didn't know where Edwards

was most days.

[kainah]

33. I understand

I would find it much, much easier to stand up for a friend against such scurrilous charges than to stand up for myself. I can't explain why but there's something in how I was raised -- to be humble, don't blow your own horn, etc. -- which would make it much, much easier to defend someone else.

I suspect the same is true of Kerry. His best statements -- his VVAW speeches & his investigation statements -- have all come when he was representing the interests of others.

[wakemewhenitsover]

40. That's the trouble when decent people with integrity run for office.

[blm]

50. That's exactly it. I think he and Gore both show that same character trait

.

[Pryderi]

42. Low self-esteem?

[karynnj]

44. By definition no one running for President has low self-esteem

Kerry did defend his record in the spring and his team did discredit many lies - you would think that once a book is found to have at least 50 stories that are lies that it would be rejected for what it was.

[wakemewhenitsover]

45. Why didn't Kerry sue for libel?

[karynnj]

46. It is very very difficult for a public figure to win

Also, there might be a real problem that the authors had these people they dug up sign afadavits about their stories. I am not a lawyer, but could that mean they could claim they had reason to believe that they were telling the truth. Then it would pit Kerry - a very wealthy powerful distinguished Senator again a bunch aof regular joes.

I would guess Kerry will do something beyond what he already did to discredit these people if he decides to run again.

[wakemewhenitsover]

47. Interesting. Thanks for explaining.

[Vektor]

48. Stolen from Athena, because she nailed it right on the head:

"Kerry has too much integrity and humility to brag about his own military record. Everybody here criticizing him for not disputing the election results should actually be criticizing all the other democratic politicians for not standing up for Kerry as they should have."


I really couldn't have said it better myself.

[itzamirakul]

51. Whatever.....eom