Okay I'll ask-IF it is Hillary vs. Condie where does the South go?

[underpants]

I don't mean this as a south basing thread at all. Given the voting trends of the last oh 50 years and such and the Republicans "Southern Strategy" that seems to have worked so well for them I think it is safe to say that this would be a bit of a stickler for the southern US.

Would it come down to the running mates? Allen vs. Warner? Allen vs. Clark? Would a white male standing behind a woman be too much?

Third party?

Thoughts?Ideas? Anyone?Anything?

[wakeme2008]

1. Crazy

:rofl:

[cantstandbush]

42. Pat Buchannan write-in. n/t

[win_in_06]

2. I think most red states would remain red, but we only need a few

to turn blue.

[acmavm]

3. Oh for... where would the south go? To hell in a hand cart. With the rest

of us.

[RethugAssKicker]

4. HA!... What a hilarious situation that would be...

Knowing this country, I believe they would vote for Hilary.

One thing these good-ol-boys won't stand for: Is a dark-skinned person in charge!

[win_in_06]

10. Don't be so sure. Ideology trumps skin color. I think you're

mischaracterizing the south. Prejudice exists in the US today but it is in no way isolated south of the mason dixie line.

[RethugAssKicker]

12. Never said it was isolated to the South.

I've lived in the South for 15 years now...I think I know a little about the mentality here.

[win_in_06]

13. The thread is about the south

[Dan]

45. I see you haven't lived in the South

[BronxBoy]

57. Even worse.....

dark skinned WOMAN in charge.

[TomClash]

5. Neither one will get the nomination of their parties nt

[Burning Water]

23. Hillary will.

Condi won't. Neither will John McCain.

[Mr.Green93]

6. They will go with Bill Clinton

the man behind the throne.

[Atman]

7. If it's a choice between a white woman and a black woman...

...then Southern GOPpers will either a) not vote, or b) cringe, take a shot of whiskey, then another one, then pray a bit, then choose the white woman.

There is not a chance in hell that Southern republicans will put a black woman in charge of them. NO WAY. It cannot happen. This is still America, after all.

[Burning Water]

24. They'll do it

before they vote for Hillary. She is truly despised in the South.

[Atman]

27. HC is despised everywhere. But a black woman in the south? No way.

I just don't see it happening. Hillary may be despised, but she's still at least "one of us" to the racists. Racism is probably much tougher to overcome, and more ingrained in the south, than sexism.

[Burning Water]

32. You're not thinking

this through. Hillary is not "one of us" to the Southern Republicans. Racism is a much weaker force in the South thatn you seem to think.

[Tomee450]

43. Race is still an

important issue in the south. There is no way that white southerners would vote for a black woman. Heck, they wouldn't even vote for a black man like Colin Powell.

[Burning Water]

46. Colin Powell

is, IMHO, considered a little "moderate" for their tastes. To say that there is "no way" they would vote for a black woman shows prejudice, I think. They will vote their issues. Race may be a factor in their decisions, but only one factor, easily outweighed by others.

[apnu]

8. wow, talk about a choice between crap and crap

DLC Hillary or Condi?

hmm... Canada sounds nice all of the sudden.

[LynneSin]

9. I think their heads would explode

thus turning the south back into Blue States. Gotta love this.

Personally I think the Condi vs. Hillary race is a figment of the neo-cons brain.

[calico1]

11. I think some of them would hold their noses and

vote for Hillary. Many others would sit it out. Remember, its not just the racism issue but also the sexist issue. Many good ole boys from the South think women should be in the kitchen and looking after them and the little ones. (Of course there are some men like that in the North too). Condi Rice is fine with them...but I think many people's opinion of her would change if she were that close to becoming President. A woman? And a Black woman at that? No, I don't think they'd go for it.

Of course, what I really believe is that neither one of them will even try to run, much less get picked as the candidate.

[Burma Jones]

14. This would bring Pat Buchanan back into Presidential Politics

Or Pat Robertson, or Gary Bauer, or any number of helpful third party whack jobs.....

[underpants]

15. Robertson

and America would be much better for it. :evilgrin:

[eallen]

16. Keep in mind that Nagin was a Republican who switched parties.

Y'all are holding tight to some stereotypes that are disappearing faster than morning frost on the south side of a hill. And it's almost noon.

Yes, there is still racism in the south. No, sorry, it's not unique to the GOP. There are many southern, wingnuts who would be quite happy to elect Condi as president. And who would take particular joy in that, because so many Democrats think they are racist. Listen, well. Racism is not an inherent part of what makes them right wingnuts.

[AspenRose]

34. Most astute post on this thread.

They (white conservatives) would either stay home or hold their nose and vote for Condi because she has the Bush Stamp of Approval.

She's not your 'typical Negro,' you know. And if it's good enough for Bush, it's good enough for them. They would have the satisfaction in knowing her loyalty to Bush is such that she would not deviate from his agenda. That's all they really care about.

And they really, Really, REALLY hate Hillary.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[etch a sketch prez]

18. I'd say Hillary.

In 2003, at the same time as the California recall election, there was a gubernatorial runoff election between Kathleen Blanco, a white woman Democrat, and Bobby Jindal, an Indian Republican. Blanco won, mostly because of racism and prejudice. This is merely anecdotal, but as sexist as some Southerners might be, they're even more racist. I think a majority, or at least a plurality, of Southern voters would go with Hillary in this hypothetical scenario.

[Dhalgren]

19. I don't believe Condie will run. I suspect that there may be one

or two big skeletons in her "closet" that would make running a nightmare for her. I think Hilary would do just as well in the south as a male Democrat would do, so there is no problem there. If Condie should run, and survive the mud-slinging, there would be many southern, fascist/Publicans who would not vote for her because of her gender and race.

And I am sick of treating the South with electoral kid-gloves. If the south has to be written off, because of the right-wing-nut majority, so be it. We can't nominate a fascist just because the south might vote for him/her...

[DeepModem Mom]

20. Is Condi pro-choice? What would the "religious" Right do? nt

[Burning Water]

21. With Condi.

The South is Republican, and even conservatives are smart enough to know when someone is one their side, and when someone isn't. The South isn't near as racist as some would like to believe, either. That is, it may be a point with them, but only a point. I t doesn't outweigh everything else, in their opinion. No Clinton will ever again carry a Southern state. You can take that to the bank.

[abluelady]

26. No Way

Republicans are basically rascist. They are not fiscally responsible--they do not want to help poor, ie, black, people. I have lived in the south for 31 years. Believe me, they will not vote for a black woman and they would never put a black woman up for President.

[Burning Water]

31. They would

vote for the Devil to keep Hillary out. I think your "racist South" ace will be trumped, if hillary is the nominee. Anyway, Condi is not running.

[abluelady]

33. The Repugs won't put her up

because she can't win. The south would stay home before voting for Condi. We have enough trouble getting voters out.

[Burning Water]

35. She's not going to run.

She has said so. The Repugs have nothing to do with it.

But if she did, and if Hillary was her opponent, they would turn out in droves to vote for her, and feel happy to do so. Race does not control the mind of the South, anymore. That's not to say it's disappeared entirely. But they're not fools, they know Hillary stands in opposition to their cherished policy preferences, and they will do what they can to prevent her ever entering the WH. Including voting for Condi. If she got past the primaries.

[abluelady]

38. Where in the South do you live?

Where I am it is still very racist.

[Burning Water]

47. Alabama. Georgia. North Carolina. Texas

I have lived in all of them. Currently Alabama. However, I have also lived in the North, which I found just as racist, if more subtly so.

I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist in the South, or elsewhere. I'm just saying that if Clarence Thomas was running for President, the South would vote for him like a solid block, especially if the opponent was Hillary. Maybe it would be less block-like it Condi was the opponent, but most white Southerners that I know truly despise Hillary. It's almost unbelievable. Think of the way we on DU think of Bush, and you'll begin to get the idea. They'd vote for anybody over Hillary.

[abluelady]

55. I Agree They Hate Hillary

But I don't think they would vote before they would vote for a black woman.

Do/did any of those areas where you live have a black representative in a white district? Just curious. Here we don't.

[Burning Water]

56. All I can speak for is Alabama

NO. But why should they? All the blacks are packed into minority-majority districts so that they can be represented by a black man. I, myself, am represented by Artur Davis, even though I am white. I voted for him, too.

So, white Alabamans, being mainly conservative, are not going to vote for a liberal person, black or white. But you are just hoping if you think they will "not vote" rather than vote for Hillary. Such wishful thinking is one reason (spare me about the stolen elections. Why were the elections close enough to steal when we have the better ideas, eh?) that we have not been winning elections much recently.

I say Dems need to look at the electoral demographics as they are, not as we would wish them to be. Hillary will turn out the vote against her, even if her opponent is black. Of course, she will also turn out the vote for her, so maybe it will be a wash. But I wouldn't count of the Dems taking any Southern states with Hillary as the candidate.

[patcox2]

22. Cannnot happen. The third republican primary is in South Carolina.

Thats where Condi's hopes end.

[abluelady]

25. They won't vote.

[RufusEarl]

28. The south

Would stay home!!

[msongs]

29. umm, what about Condi's HUSBAND???????

is the nation gonna vote for an UNMARRIED black woman (or white one for that matter)with NO known men in her life? An independent woman who seems like, on the surface, she is not being told what to do by....men?

Msongs
www.msongs.com/chinamart.htm

[BikeWriter]

37. Precisely. 1 Timothy 2:11-15:

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent..." (NIV)
http://www.religioustolerance.org/nfe_bibl.htm

[stray cat]

30. independent candidate

[ArkySue]

36. Where does the South go?

Perhaps it'll be time to try that secession thing again?

[Jai4WKC08]

39. Third party

Which would help us a lot.

But I don't think Condi Rice will run, and if she does, she won't get the nomination. They just throw her name out there to push Dems a little closer to Hillary Clinton.

[Dob Bole]

40. Condi....barring third-party intervention.

Condi Rice is from Alabama. Hillary Clinton is from Illinois, and isn't well-liked in the South anyway.

But, since Condi Rice is black...it's highly likely that a racist third-party person would come out of the woodwork.

Here's the thing, though...while race isn't as much of an issue, gender is. The SBC has become more and more fundamentalist and male-dominated. A female candidate may not even do as well as she would have 30 years ago.

[Neil Lisst]

41. Hillary could get the nomination, but Condi? Never.

I cannot imagine any way Condi could get nominated for president in the Republican party. They know she's merely window dressing. She has no constituency. As soon as Bush is gone, she's gone, and she will be little more than a Fox News contributor thereafter.

[Jacobin]

44. Here's a small example of your hypothet

Louisiana gubanatorial race in 2004.

The republican: a young Eastern Indian BushBot.

The democrat: a middle aged white cajun woman.


The middle aged white woman won by I think about 5% and there was talk among the republicans that Louisiana was racist for not voting for the dark skinned republican guy.

Its all very complicated. Its not simple. It varies by state. It varies by regions of states. Its not simple in the north, south, east or west

[mmonk]

48. Condi

It's not simple racism, the majority are just kool aid drinkers. I may go third party though, because if America doesn't deal with one of the greatest lies in its history (which I don't believe Hillary will dwell on), I will have to look elsewhere even though I'm a politically active dem.

[LizW]

49. Depends on how the Repugs sell it.

They would, I think, sell Condi the same way they sold Bush in 2000 when there were doubts about his experience and competence. A figurehead. The message would be sent that Condi "knows her place" and that the old white guys would really be running things.

And we know how much the Repugs like to project their racism on Democrats, so they would love telling us how racist we are for opposing Condi.

I think race trumps gender and idealogy trumps all. That plus a big dose of Hillary-hate would swing the south to Condi.

God help us.

[LiberalEsto]

50. To Jesus-land

They'll pack their SUVs and Bibles and move to South Carolina and set up a real God-fearin' government and secede.

I hope.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

51. perot. flying saucers and all.

[noonwitch]

52. RalphNadar/RossPerot/whatever white male is running 3rd party.

Finally, it'll be Ralph's big year.

[RunningFromCongress]

53. Condi can't get the nomination, not enough registered black republicans

to give her the "edge" she would need to get on top of someone like McCain...

She'd sweep most of the south though...the black vote would be crazy...and even if the white GOP hardliners stayed home, she'd get enough dem. black voters to easily take the south

[BronxBoy]

58. What have you been drinking.....

Condi is despised in the Black Community

[Arkana]

54. They'll write in David Duke and call it a day.

[Literate Tar Heel]

59. my take as a NC'ian

low turnout, higher than usual 3rd party votes (especially Libertarian) ... I don't think the dislike for African-Americans quite out-trumps the dislike for Hillary in most of the South, so many would vote for Rice as some sort of protest or badge of honor

there could be some interesting demographic shifts in that the affluent suburbs (more voting women) would probably go more Blue than in the last two elections, while the GOP could possibly make some inroads in the inner cities (ok, that's pretty much limited to Atlanta, New Orleans, and Charlotte in the South)

the running mates could potentially be very influential, in that male voters in the South are at least as sexist as they are racist, probably more so, meaning that they would really look at the running mate as the "acting president", and would therefore be actually voting for the 2nd spot on the ticket more so than the 1st

[Lefty48197]

60. BWWWWWW WWWWWWWWWWW WAAHAHAHAHAHAH

The conservative southerners' heads would explode. They'd definately support a third party candidate. Perhaps Zell Miller/Trent Lott could be the Konservative Party nominees in 2008?

[mitchum]

61. With Stephanie Fetchit..."she's a good 'un"