The new DLC on the left. Mixed feelings about this.

[madfloridian]

My question, will you guys let the DNC take care of business in Phoenix, since their agenda is very broad? Is it going to turn into a protest? I work with a group that is working hard as well, but I do believe that DNC has so many issues to contend with.

I am not sure how I feel about this. This group has been after Howard Dean's head from the beginning. It is a shame, we could work together. IF this group were not out to hurt the DNC, I might be supportive.

http://spidel.net/blog/?p=241

"« Interview I did with Canada’s largest mag1,000th Exectution Grassroots Kit »What is this I hear? PDA organizing around the DNC here in December?

I have been getting that question a lot. What is PDA doing around the DNC? I hear there is something happening here around the war issue? Well there is. Here is a document I have been circulating internally to potential investors in these events to fill you in on some of the goings on. This is an internal document we are using for some of our potential donors. So you know the angle we are taking around the December events, I went ahead and put it up here:

“PDA is the grassroots-fueled counterbalance to the DLC. We will harness the activist power of various progressive movements, empower them through the DNC— to reform, refocus, and win based on our issues. The PDA activists are the players, the DNC is our rulebook, and the game is… social justice.” – Kevin Spidel, PDA National Political Director addressing northern California PDA activists in the spring of 2005.

Fueling the Peaceful Revolution of the Democratic Party
Progressive Democrats of America (PDA) launched in July of 2004, following the Democratic National Convention. Since that time, PDA has successfully continued to bring the issues key to progressives to the forefront of the party establishment. Specific examples are referenced in the attached executive summary."

My question:
AND, I sincerely want to know:
What are your values? You say you are going to target the Democrats at the conference? Are you willing to compromise? Must it be just Iraq? Do you care about Social Security and health care for American?

Or is it a power play that will hurt all of us.

"What we need
This December, the Democratic National Committee will be meeting in one of our best organized cities, Phoenix, Arizona. We plan on targeting DNC members who are allied to our progressive values.

More at the link because we are all part of a country that is in serious danger from the right wing right now. Are you going to hurt us further by uncompromising hate and anger toward Governor Dean? Now how you feel about him doesn't matter in the long run...it is a sign that it is based from other issues which I don't want to mention here.

I like to think we are all in it together trying to change things.

[KoKo]

1. I don't know what this is about ...but.as a PDA'er...this is what I think:

I support any efforts to build a group to the Left of DNC that can create "independent funding" and find candidates not tied to lobbyists who will support a more Populist/Diplomacy over War agenda.

I don't know this Phoenix group...but I DO feek (along with many others) that the DNC needs to reformed and the only way to do it is to get as much clout on the LEFT as the DLC has with the DNC to the Right.

I love Howard Dean...I think...he would be with us ...as we go further out to 2008, and the jackals at his heels like McAuliffe and Shrum and the rest try to take him down. I also think...even with the bad blood between Dean and Joe Trippi...that Trippi is positioning himself to get involved with this Left.

I met him here in NC...and felt that he was looking "for the Lefties."

:shrug:

[madfloridian]

2. I only know a little about it.

I know it is a group of mixed independents, but a lot of them do not and did not want Howard Dean to be chair. They want a third party now, and they are Kucinich and Nader and Greens, mixed.

I agree we need counterbalance, but there are many of us who will fight a group who put the blame on things on the wrong people.

I am for a party including the people. I am also supportive of the way it is trying to be done in the DNC now.

I think the DLC has effectively already started a third party all by their lonesome selves.

I am very afraid of the future of our country if things happen to stop the Democratic momentum that is beginning now.

I watched Dean on TV this morning, and I felt very good about the party. Now I don't. I have seen other things about this, but this is all I am sharing right now.

[madfloridian]

3. BUT KoKo01, why is this group against him.

If you belong to it, maybe you could help? Is it just a few?

[KoKo]

4. I've not seen any PDA's here in NC (my RED STATE) against Dean.

As a matter of fact it is the Grassroots made up of Dean/Kucinich/Nader/Green Party Voters who are working so hard to change NC politics. We have a DINO (really Repug..Govenor) who is now trying to "Deep Six" our "Verified Voter Paper Ballot" Amendment that the coalition of the groups (I mentioned above) joined together to get through the NC Legislature.

I think than many "games" are being played out there by the "disinformationists."

I only know what I know that there is a "coalition" building for REFORM!

I know that Trippi might be an "operative" looking for a "Gig." But, he spent his time looking for the "New Leaders." And I know that Dean is the most "real" politician we've had in DECADES!

As I said...I couldn't understand your post..but that's just because I'm speed reading and maybe I'm unfamiliar with "Western Politics," but I know what we are working on here in NC..and I gave you my view as to the best of what I could say. :shrug:

[madfloridian]

5. Trippi is working with Simon Rosenberg, KoKo01.

Why would he be looking to be involved with the left?

[radio4progressives]

29. As a California PDA'r We fought hard for Dean...

And we're happy to have a chance to meet and have a "seat at the table" with the DNC in Phoenix.

[madfloridian]

31. You were going anyway.

I think they were gracious. Perhaps some of our DFAers, who, by the way, also do some of the things you mention.....will be invited there also.

When did the invitation go out? Kevin's post is not that old, the one in the OP.

[radio4progressives]

51. It was mentioned in our meeting last week.. If I remember correctly

the invitation was made during a recent telephone conference (not positive exactly how the invitation was put forward)

It was simply announced at last week's pda meeting, and we discussed how many of us want to go etc.

[NoPasaran]

6. MF, I think we know very well who "these people" are

They're the people who told you that Howard Dean "wasn't a TRUE progressive" (whatever that means).

They're the people who think he wasn't against the war ENOUGH.

They're the people who post every week the DNC won't get a dime from them until Harry Reid strangles Bill Frist with the entrails of a cat.

They're the people who are disappointed that the world hasn't changed enough for them in the year since the Democratic grassroots rose up and forced the DNC to reject the choice of the DLC for party chair. And we made them reject the candidates with DLC ties who talked a grassroots game. We made them Howard Dean, who does understand the grassroots. And Howard Dean has been changing the party from the top while we've been changing it from the bottom and these people just don't understand.

It is sad that progressives have been shut out from power and influence for so long that many of us don't recognize what winning looks like. Some of us are more comfortable standing outside a meeting hall with a sign than coming in and sitting down and participating. Change is hard. But we are winning. Something we all need to learn is when to put down the sign and come into the meeting.

[KoKo]

7. When he was here in NC...I saw him as Pragmatic.....I think we need to

keep Trippi on our side.

I know his "dark history." I'm being (as I said, pragmatic) but if you feel he is a Darkside Bushie" then please PM me about this.

[madfloridian]

10. I don't know the answer.

Rosenberg is the face of the New Dems Network. So I guess we have to be trusting or not.

[madfloridian]

9. Thanks for the nice post.

I know a lot of DFA groups work with them, but I can not believe that they would support some of the things they say and do to hurt the DNC and Dean's place as chair.

I am going to check with a few of the ones in DFA listed as working with the group to see if they truly are willing to hurt the party at this crucial time.

I belonged for a while. I took myself off the list and out of the group when they started writing things like "Is Dean Drunk" and writing misleading letters to him.

Thanks, I guess we are not out of the woods at all, are we? We still have to battle. I think the DNC will make a great party if given time to change things.

That is an important meeting in Phoenix, and now we have two groups perhaps trying to sabotage.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

42. I know some of the PDA people in Minnesota

(some of them post on this board). They were overwhelmingly for Dean as DNC chair and said so in listening sessions that the DFL held last winter.

[eridani]

8. PDA lobbied FOR Dean to be DNC head, ferchrissakes!

That isn't a reason not to criticize him occasionally. I've always understood that Dean paid a great deal of attention to communications from the grassroots.

[madfloridian]

11. So they could hold his feet to the fire...fine with that...ok with me.

I am all for trying to make the party more leftish....nothing wrong with that.

Their attacks on Dean recently are what bother me. He is the chair, and undermining him is undermining the party. He is on our side, not the side of the DLC. This is a touchy time for the party. I trust him and I trust the group in the DNC now. I don't trust the DLC, but I think they are making their own party anyway.

On Edit, if you think occasional criticism is all that is going on, think again. I have no gripe with that. I have a gripe with the ones on the advisory board who are out for him. And some are.

[KoKo]

12. madfloridian,,,,

Here's what I think....We don't know who the hell to trust anymore!

AND, how could WE???

So, we have to parse and dialog amongst ourselves "whiseling in the dark" and going "at each other" to figure out "Who, What, When, Where and How...HOW!...the Repugs ALWAYS STEAL AMERICA FROM US!!!

HOW DO THEY DO IT??

So....I just have to "ground myself" into what I know from my "individual core of being" as to what the BushDo Disinformationalists are passing me through the media.

I don't know...but I DO KNOW my "OWN VALUES" having lived on this PLANET for a GOODLY number of years to have a "say so from OBSERVATION." :shrug:

[madfloridian]

13. Good post, but I am like you.....confused.

:hi:

[KoKo]

14. Sadly, there's only "you and I here" replying to each other.....

That means to me (as a pragmatist) that no one else gives a crap about it.

What does that say? :shrug:

[Douglas Carpenter]

15. I might suggest you ask Will Pitt about this--he posts on DU regularly

he is on PDA's staff.

Their Board of Directors includes these members of Congress:

John Conyers, Diane E. Watson and Lyn Woolsey

this is their website:

http://pdamerica.org/index.php

[madfloridian]

16. I know who all their staff and advisors are.

Some are very sensible, some are very against the DNC continuing as the voice of the party.

But hey, it's America, isn't it? If we undermine the DNC we can just give it back to the DLC. I don't believe Conyers or Woolsey would want things to hurt the Democrats. Dean works with them closely.

[Douglas Carpenter]

21. my sincere apologies -- I misunderstood

sorry

[madfloridian]

22. That's ok. I don't even understand myself on this.

It is like it has a bad feeling, and I don't understand why undermining Dean would be in the interest of a progressive group. One of the their advisory panel constantly writes articles at Democrats.com absolutely blasting Dean.

Now, though my hubby and I have been Dean supporters since early 2003....we know he is not perfect. We know he is not your usual Democrat. He even admits it. He actually does not fit a mold because of his pragmatism and lack of ideology....he believes in looking at each situation practically and coming up with the best solution.

I don't know the purpose of the event PDA are holding at the Phoenix meetings, but it sounds very confrontational. I am not so sure it is deserved right now. Our Democrats are getting the courage to speak out, and Dean and Reid are working on getting the message coordinated. Things are coming together.

I am purely hated by some of the leaders of this group because I take stands for Dean. That makes no sense. Hubby and I are active workers and donors not only to the DNC, but to the DFA. The DFA is having good success in local areas. Jim Dean was in 8 states before the election. Many DFAers work with PDA, but I find it hard to believe they approve of a confrontation at the conference to set the agenda.

So, I am unpopular with them anyway, so there is no pain for me to find out the purpose. We have Hillary taking a stand with the DLC, and forming their own little party agenda called the American Dream Initiative. I am not sure how much division the party can take in these formative stages of rebulding.

[Douglas Carpenter]

23. I agree with you 100,000 %

If that is possible -- It does sound like realism is losing out.

[madfloridian]

24. Thanks.

:hi:

[KoKo]

17. We on this post are aware of PDA and don't need to ask Will Pitt about it

Thank your for the suggestion, but we don't need that. I am a member of PDA and indeed know who Will Pitt is for years...He doesn't need to be introduced to us...and doesn't speak for all of us on PDA!

[KoKo]

18. Good GAWD...we don't need PDA'ers speaking down to us like we

haven't a clue and they don't even know their membership....sheesh!

[Douglas Carpenter]

40. Is it possible you have me mistaken for someone else with the same last

name? That just occurred to me a few minutes ago. It has happened to me once before here on DU.

I am only a nominal member of PDA. I certainly hold no position with the organization.

Again I'm sorry I misunderstood the post.

[Robertwf]

19. PDA

You all have lost me out here on the Left coast, what is a PDA besides a personal Digital Assistant?:wtf:

[KoKo]

20. Here are some links....you might be interested in:

Progressive Democrats of America
Progressive Democrats of America (PDA), is engaged in a national strategy focused
on defining "progressive" and demonstrating support among elected ...
www.pdamerica.org/ - 30k - Nov 12, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages

September Grassroots Action on the Hill - Progressive Democrats of ...
Progressive Democrats of America supports a renewed nation, respectful of the
rule of law at home and abroad, fully integrated into and respectful of the ...
www.pdamerica.org/articles/events/sept2005/index.php - 13k - Nov 12, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages

Blog Links
Watch PDA's introductory video. Requires free RealPlayer software. » 56K modem »
broadband · We the People... - A Blog by William Rivers Pitt ...
blog.pdamerica.org/ - 50k - Nov 12, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages

Progressive Democrats of America
CONTACT: Progressive Democrats of America Charles Lenchner 202-460-5199 Kevin
Spidel 602-373-6990. New Political Organization to be Launched in Boston: ...
www.commondreams.org/news2004/0720-06.htm - 15k - Cached - Similar pages

Progressive Democrats of America
CONTACT: Progressive Democrats of America Kevin Spidel [e-mail] (602)
373-6990. Rep. Waters Creates New “Out-of-Iraq Congressional Caucus” ...
www.commondreams.org/news2005/0616-32.htm - 13k - Cached - Similar pages

Progressive Democrats of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Progressive Democrats of America is a progressive organization that formed
out of the members of Dennis Kucinich's Presidential Campaign as well as ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Democrats_of_America - 11k - Cached - Similar pages

Progressive Democrats of America: New Jersey
www.pdanj.org/ - 2k - Cached - Similar pages


PDA (Progressive Dems) | DemSpeak
PDA believes in a wonderful and beautiful United America. We believe we need to
strengthen our communities and spread not only the words but the actions of ...
demspeak.com/index.php?q=taxonomy_menu/7/15 - 47k - Nov 13, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages

[madfloridian]

25. Confused about their requesting formation of a progressive caucus.

This statement is at the link I posted above.

"This December, the Democratic National Committee will be meeting in one of our best organized cities, Phoenix, Arizona. We plan on targeting DNC members who are allied to our progressive values. We plan to replicate what has been successful in seven different state parties, within the DNC. We plan to target, invite, and ask DNC members to begin organizing a Progressive Caucus within the DNC."

There is already a Progressive Caucus. Here is their webpage.

http://www.congressionalprogressivecaucus.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=27

So that confuses me even more.

[radio4progressives]

54. Well... hmm. looks like the Progressive Caucus hasn't been

too communicative in letting people know they exist?

I've seen this kind of thing happen in other grassroots organizing..
lots and lots of similar undertakings that end up working duplicating effors, reinventing the wheel a million times over and sometimes at cross purposes.

without going into speculative paranoid theories here, shall we agree that the best thing to do is to make our acquaintence and work together in solidarity on shared interests and concerns so that we can make very important changes?

Or should we continue to cannibalize each other and let the fascists win?

[radio4progressives]

55. The Congressional Progressive Caucus is NOT the DNC

It's a totally different Caucus.

No wonder you're confused about this.

Completely different group of people.

[madfloridian]

56. I know what the DNC is. These are Dems who formed a caucus.

They call it the Progressive Caucus. Of course that is not the DNC itself. I know those folks though, who they are...if they are already formed, why should there be another?

[radio4progressives]

26. I am a PDA member and we were INVITED by the DNC to be in Phoenix

I am a PDA member of Sonoma County, and we were just informed that we have been invited to attend DNC meeting in Phoenix, and I'm planning going.

William River Pitt was the key note speaker for our very first fundraiser last summer.

Right after that we went about Re-enacting the Downing Street Memo town squares in several nearby towns and worked on that. One of our members helped to spearhead grassroots for the development of the Department of Peace which Dennis Kucinich tried to push for.

Most of us were all Dennis Kucinich supporters during the 2004 primaries - then we went on to work to get out the vote for Kerry after Kerry won the nomination.

Our values are traditional progressive values, and and it's we work hard on. Anyone can take a look at Dennis Kucinich's platform to get a glance at the list of "issues" we care deeply about and consider as priority.

Universal Healthcare is at the head of that list, (apart from the War in Iraq)

We care very much about workers rights, strong support for Unions.
We care very much for civil liberties and the right privacy.
We care very much for civil rights and equality for ALL.
We care very much for campaign and elections reform.

PDA is finally on the radar screen of many elected officials in the Democratic Party. Barbara Boxer is pleased to have our support, she and Lyn Woolsey refer to PDA by name.

And now finally, we've gotten the attention of Diane Feinstein (who has felt the heat from us on a number of issues, but most profoundly her position on the war) which is a major development. She has not only agreed to meet with us, but apparently asked PDA reps if we would meet with her. That initiative on her part springs from a great deal of initiatives on our end to make this happen, essentially holding her feet to the fire and that's what we do.

Our values go to the core of what has always been the Traditional Democratic Values, but what the Party has abandoned and all but completely ignored for the past many years.

The purpose of PDA organizing is to hold our Democratic party leaders feet to the fire on core issues that distinguishes this party from Republicans and especially the Neo Cons.

We want a seat at the table - and we're building the grassroots organization to have earned that right.

And by the way Cindy Sheehan is on our advisory board.

http://www.pdamerica.org/

On edit: DU'rs recognize William Rivers Pitt? He's a staff member, and David Swanson, Bonifaz, among many others are on the advisory board. go to url and read all about us...

[madfloridian]

27. I know all that.

I heard the video from Cindy's speech where she sort of made fun of Dean after he took time for a meeting with her. After he posted his very nice and complimentary blog about her, some of the PDA leaders said he was doing it to cover his butt.

Over what? I saw the video where they laughed because he did not please her with his answer about Iraq. He was the one who stood up against it, yet she made fun of him.....and so did some of the leaders who post here.

It is just as well they issued an invite, because you were going there to apparently confront anyway. It was very thoughtful of them to invite. Maybe they thought to invite DFA as well. You think?

Why is your group so hostile to the DNC, that is my question. It states on your website that the DNC is not the vehicle for the future under its present leadership. Huh? It then states that PDA is the one to lead.

To me that is advocating against the DNC, and I am trying to find out why.

[radio4progressives]

32. Oh I wouldn't spend any time getting twisted in knots over it...

I think it's part of the process for the DEMs to figure out how the hell they're going to stand together and beat the fascists back to hell where they came from.

The problem is in Washington, where the elite ruling class who are and always have been completely out of touch with the people, and there they are in the halls of Congress making grave decisions that impact all our lives - and when they continue to give welfare to corporations and the oil executives and give away our treasury, well it's because they've never had so many people they're supposed to be representing watching their every move. and when we watch them on C-Span or spin their drivel on cable shows - capitulate time and time and time again.. it's because they forgot who they're supposed to be representing.

And they allowed the Bushevics to take us down this evil path to war, spending our peoples lives and our treasury for the whims of these monsters - and when they had the opportunity in the 2004 election campaign - they didn't care of business, instead they rolled over and capitulated to the fascists rhetoric. and when it was clear that the election was stolen again, they said "oh darn", and walked away instead of taking that fight head on.

Dean came out today and got back on message wrt to the War in Iraq and Alita nomination. I'm fine with what he said, and no the Phoenix meeting was never about confrontation.

[madfloridian]

33. Then you guys need to have a "come to Jesus" meeting....

with some of your leaders. They are going after Dean, which is why they endorsed him. Kucinich people do NOT like him, and it is starting to show.

You need to get together as a group and talk to the ones who are calling the DNC an outmoded entity, tell them we need to work together.

[radio4progressives]

35. We don't bring Jesus into this ...

we work together to make sure our core issues get on the party's platform. Period.

[madfloridian]

37. Not working together yet.

There is too much antagonism exhibited in various articles. I will trust when we go a while without them. The term "come to Jesus" meeting has nothing to do with Jesus....it means getting down to business about what things are about.

[madfloridian]

28. Oh, and I forgot.

Why is Kevin on the blog above calling for a progressive caucus when one already exists.

Just trying to figure things out. If PDA is so supportive of the party, why does the advisory committee member constantly go after the DNC and esp. Dean at Democrats.com?

[madfloridian]

30. Yes, David Swanson wrote Is Dean Drunk and other lovely pieces.

Gee, since you guys have earned your stripes....perhaps DFA has been invited to attend as well...or maybe not.

I admire many of your members, I used to be one. But if you are going to work with the DNC it should be done tastefully and respectfully.

It should not be proud of videos where Cindy and others are making fun of the chairman who met with her graciously, it should not be proud of its leaders posting here at DU saying they believe Dean wrote the nice blog about her to make himself look good.

Congratulations on your recognition by the party, and I am very glad the DNC is graciously opening its doors to you. Will you guys reciprocate in the graciousness?

[radio4progressives]

34. You obviosly have a thorn in your side.. I don't know anything about

your charges, I've not seen any of these videos (Cindy Sheehan is a hero to me, apparently she isn't one of yours) but i think it's time to get over it...

I expect to be seing my friends from our local DFA there as well. It isn't as if our concerns are so very different - we're pretty much aligned on most issues.

[madfloridian]

36. Cindy was a hero to me until that episode. I have no thorn, just reality.

There should be a sea change in attitude. There are all kinds of people in various groups, no one is just alike.

You need to realize what I posted above from that blog sounds like a threat. I hate the corporate Democrats as much as anyone, but I also realize that trying to bring down the chairman who is working for change is the wrong thing to do.

It is just wrong. The meeting is important, and I guarantee you that Governor Dean had a lot to do with this.

Do me a favor, look up David Swanson's articles about Dean. Tell me what you think about them.

[madfloridian]

38. NoParasan posted a thoughtful post above.

Most are not reading it, and I will repost part of it. We can not work together as DNC, and progressives, until we recognize this. I watched Howard Dean today on MTP,and I thought how lucky we were to have him as chairman. Reposting from above by NoParasan:

"They're the people who told you that Howard Dean "wasn't a TRUE progressive" (whatever that means).

They're the people who think he wasn't against the war ENOUGH.

They're the people who post every week the DNC won't get a dime from them until Harry Reid strangles Bill Frist with the entrails of a cat.

They're the people who are disappointed that the world hasn't changed enough for them in the year since the Democratic grassroots rose up and forced the DNC to reject the choice of the DLC for party chair. And we made them reject the candidates with DLC ties who talked a grassroots game. We made them Howard Dean, who does understand the grassroots. And Howard Dean has been changing the party from the top while we've been changing it from the bottom and these people just don't understand.

(And this part is very important)
"It is sad that progressives have been shut out from power and influence for so long that many of us don't recognize what winning looks like. Some of us are more comfortable standing outside a meeting hall with a sign than coming in and sitting down and participating. Change is hard. But we are winning. Something we all need to learn is when to put down the sign and come into the meeting."

[radio4progressives]

39. A few Points.

First point is, I don't have the time to search out Swanson's comments regarding Dean, It's your charge, so it's your responsibility to back it up with the offending remarks and post the link here.

Second point is, that it seems you're kind of going out of your way to pick a fight with PDA - perhaps to marginalize us, perhaps to spur divisions - I don't know what your motive is, you'll have to be a bit more clear, but i do get the sense that you're desperate to "reign" us in and to some set of rules of the game you want to make sure PDA conforms to. It's a bit condescending, it feels from my point of view.

Third point is, PDA is not about setting out to take down Dean. PDA was the first to ENDORSE DEAN for CHAIR when PDA formed last Feburary. I can see how PDA might be concerned that the DLC is trying to control the DNC agenda, through the chair.

Some of that has played out in recent months. There's stuff going on in certain elections that PDA might be concerned about, I don't know just guessing. I've read some stuff that is worrysome, but that's just speculation on my part. Which leads to other kinds of speculation that I don't intend to go into here but I think after going to Phoenix, I'll have a better insight on.

A while back, I watched on C-Span a DNC Executive meeting in Washington with DNC Chair Dean and others. It was interesting to hear the issues that were being seriously grappling with (mainly about avoiding front loading issues and addressing the issues of changing the rules of early primaries schedules) I liked how Dean chaired the meeting - and I liked who I saw seated at the table.

Now, PDA is about making serious reform changes in this party - and we know we're up against the status quo and the power of the ruling elite. And they've controled the DNC forever. We want to change that, I thought the DFA was on board with that as well. But if the DFA is about the keeping status quo, well then that explains why I left the DFA to work with the PDA.

If remarks Cindy Sheehan or David Swanson made about Dean's position on the War has caused you to take issues with each of them, well then you don't appreciate the fact that they're people of principle.
They're not cutting anyone any slack at all with regard to the war - whether they are a Democrat or a Republican or an Independent.

What these people have done far out shines anything way and above anyone else has said or done in the anti-war movement in my eyes, and they tower above all others including Howard Dean (though i fought hard for Dean's nomination) as far as heroism in the fight to end this evil war.

You'll just have to understand that peoples lives are at stake and don't take it personally.

[madfloridian]

41. That is your choice. I don't think you understand.

If what I have said does not matter to you, that the goal is apparently more than holding the feet to the fire....then that is your decision.

I hate what's coming, and I was proud of what we were doing in the DNC. No, not perfect, but doing it together made more sense than doing it in small groups. There are elements who are not going to stop with an invite to a conference.

So be it. I hate that you think David Swanson and Cindy have more principles than I do. I think perhaps some wool-pulling has occurred. I am sorry about that, and I am fully capable of reading the full intent of what that means.

It appears you as a PDA member do not think serious change is going on in the DNC.

It also appears that you do not see the nuances at play and the dangers ahead. Bloggers working for the NDN, yet then hanging around with progressive groups, making one slap one's fist against the head in confusion. Like, wow, did I really just read that? But never mind. It does not matter now, does it?

[radio4progressives]

45. Your accusuations are vague and misleading, and very destructive

You put words in my mouth that i do not say. I have not compared your principles to anyone else's because I don't know what your principles are - I don't know what your priorities are. I don't even know you.

You assert the PDA is being divisive and bent taking Dean out, "condeming" Dean for what he has or has not said about the war.

This is poppycock.

Right this very minute, i've tuned in to Ed Schultz, (not because I like his program but I monitor it for DLC "message" and interviews with Senators and members of Congress)

If you want to go to after the very people that are trying to take Dean "out" - you should focus your energies and attention to what the DLC is doing in this regard.

Because Schultz, just ran through the DLC talking points condemning Dean's performance on Meet the Press yesterday and critising the 'lack luster funding' that Terry McCauliff and other DLC operatives have put out recent weeks in the Media other rumor mill forums.

I wanted to call him up and give Schultz hell for shilling for the DLC and doing their dirty work for them.

PDA is not doing this. The DLC is.

Your battle is not with the PDA it is with the DLC and the sooner you get that figured out, the more helpful to Dean, the DNC and the greater cause you will be.

[madfloridian]

47. No, you are not paying attention to what I am saying.

It is both sides.

[madfloridian]

49. I have given Schultz hell many times. I have emails to prove it.

I know full well what he is doing, and I don't bother to listen anymore. I am not being ugly, just honest. One person can not survive all this.

We all know what Schultz does, and it is going to get worse.

I have no gripe with the majority of the folks in that group. I respect many a lot. But some have things in mind that will hurt us. It needs to be noticed.

[radio4progressives]

50. What "things" are you talking about and please be very specific

and what are you concerned about specifically?

[Hyernel]

43. Labels don't concern me....

...as much as GETTING THE JOB DONE, and WINNING!!!!!

Hyernel

Please excuse the shouting

[madfloridian]

44. So, in conclusion, it means a battle from the left and from the right.

I think it is beginning this week in earnest after the election successes. Doesn't matter to whom you give credit for them....the moves are being made.

Watch and see if I am right. Unfair attacks here will be mostly from the left. See, the right doesn't need to use the forums....they have as much stake in the media just about as the GOP...at least some do. So they can use the new media, maybe like the Third Way's connections to New Republic and most likely Slate. Easy to do. Put out the words here and there. The left has the forums and some talk radio hosts.

So, I had my say. I will not work with any groups that advocate not supporting the DNC....because in my opinion that is what we have right now.

Dean is rebuilding from the bottom up, but the top down people who have had it their way too long don't like it.

Unfortunately some groups want "perfect" "now"...and they will hurt the party because it is impossible to give perfect right away. I think Governor Dean knows what he is facing, and I know for sure that a lot of us do know. I think he is up to the job, as much as anyone can be. It's a shame though, that some will not work with us.

[flpoljunkie]

46. You do know that Will Pitt works for Progressive Democrats of America.

They are trying to influence the DNC and its members to more progressive positions at their convention in Phoenix and I fail to see any threat in that.

[madfloridian]

48. I am for that.

I am not for some of the things being put forth.

[radio4progressives]

52. For the Record, I take offense to the PDA being referred to as

the "new DLC on the Left".

PDA is very very very grassroots. Very ordinary citizens.

No Washington "insiders" - no heavy funders associated with Foundations like Soros or Foreign Councils and the like.

No heavy funded Think Tanks or Brooking Institute types.

We are grassroots activists passionately concerned about kitchen table issues as well as the dreadful foreign policies that both parties have embarked upon.

Very very different than what the DLC and the so called "New Democrat Network" so called "Third Way" doctrine.

[madfloridian]

53. I did not refer to it that way....it was on the blog I posted.

I am grassroots as well, and I do very much care for a lot of the group. I am not the one who called it that.