Lou's Poll: Should boys and girls be taught in SEPARATE classrooms?

[snowbear]

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/

[snowbear]

1. I can't believe people are voting yes...

Lou was certain everyone would say NO, that it's ridiculous..

[acmavm]

2. This is pure ignorance. Nothing like hurling this country back to the

Dark Ages.

[snowbear]

3. I know... but the freeps hit this poll.. VOTE NO FAST !!!

He'll be announcing the results in just a couple minutes..

[ElectroPrincess]

11. Freeps don't like women ...

And the women who lead or speak for the freepers consider themselves as "the exception" that will permit them to be accepted as "one of the boys" ... IMO not all that dissimilar to the addtitude of some of history's house slaves considering themselves classier than the run-of-the-mill plantations slaves.

It's sick to watch them talk being "help mates" to men ... these women who trash their own gender absolutely disgust me. :puke:

[Rowdyboy]

4. Hasn't there been scientific data proving that girls are often overlooked

in math and science classes? The teachers apparently are more likely to call on boys in class and expect more from them. Maybe I'm nuts, but I'm pretty sure I've read it somewhere.

[karynnj]

29. I 've read somethings on it - but they are usually studies with

a pre-conceived idea that they are looking for. First, I majored in Mathematics and Economics (1972), my mom has a degree in accounting. I have 6 sisters - 4 of whom were good in math.

The problem is that it depends a lot on how the questions are phrased. Years ago, the concern was that in the earliest year, the girls did better in boh the language based classes and the math based classes. But by high school, the AVERAGE boy was slightly better than the AVERAGE girl in math. (Note girls still are ahead on language - but that's apparently not considered a problem.

There could be many reasons - some outside the classroom.
-It might be the girls are given many signals that "it's ok (normal) that math is hard, which it excuses them from trying. I remember reading teen girls books as a pre-teen, where many girls seemed distressed because they were failing algebra - always algebra. I was terrified at the beginning of the year I started algebra, I was scared - till I saw it as fun.

-It might be that some of the traditional boy toys lead boys to be more interested in math and science.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

30. See post #27 n/t

[Gman]

5. As the father of a 14 year old daughter

I voted YES!

My daughter is a gorgeous 5'6" (and still growing) blonde that turns enough boy heads. Fortunately though, she's not "boy crazy". But, as a protective dad, I think boys and girls in the same class are a distraction to education.

I'm just glad that when I was in school classes were coed and this wasn't an issue. Of course now that I'm a dad, it's different! Hypocritical? Hell, yes!

[Ready4Change]

12. Well, at least you're honest about it.

I still don't have to AGREE.
:eyes: :-)

[ElectroPrincess]

14. Then stop trying to shield her and get her involved ...

with self-defense classes and/or martial arts?!?

That's what I've done with my equally beautiful and blonde daughter. Now that the boys in her class ALL know that she's working toward her second degree black belt ... well lets just say they will not take advantage of her when she's old enough to date.

It's not wise to protect your pre- or teen daughters. Teach them your sense of character and morality. Encourage them to think for themselves and NOT be afraid just because men tend to be larger and loaded down with muscle.

Martial Arts is the "great equalizer" for the little guy as well as for the petite woman. :-) :hi:

[Gman]

34. Martial arts training would be good

but just in case, daddy has the 12 gauge in the closet!

[Digit]

6. 50 Yes 50 No at the moment!

[yy4me]

7. Lou Dobbs polls are childish, not worth the effort to reply.

I can not figure out why someone as educated and informed as Lou Dobbs would allow these childish polls to be aired on his show. I won't even waste a trip to the computer to participate in them. At one point I e-mailed him in this regard but to no avail. I'm sure the staff is capable of composing something more adult and relevant.

[snowbear]

8. But you've GOT to love his expressions when he gets the good ones!

He thought for sure people would agree that NO WAY.. our children should have the choice of what type of classrooms they go to..

Glad we got it at least to 50/50.. it was FREEPED big time..

[TrogL]

9. Absolutely amazing

I consider the classroom a workplace. In every other workplace I've worked men and women are expected to work side-by-side without problems. That's why there's a sexual harassment policy - for that small minority who has problems behaving themselves.

The place where you practice behaving yourself in the workplace (and society in general) is the classroom.

What do you propose to do with the kids who are gay or bi?

[kennetha]

10. Not Dark Ages At All

Actually, I think it's BOYS who suffer more, especially in elementary school years, when boys and girls are taught together.

Boys way underperform girls in elementary, high school and even colleges. This is happening around the industrialized world. Significantly more boys drop out. Significantly more boys repeat grades. Repeating a grade in elementary school is the single biggest predictor of whether a kid will finish high school Repeat one grade, and you increase your chances of dropping out by 20%. Repeat 2 grades and you double your chances of dropping out. And again, it's mostly boys who suffer. Elementary school as currently taught in this country is mostly made for girls. So I think all boys schools that taught to the distinctive learning styles of boys would save lots of boys.

Again, look at the colleges and universities around the industrialized world. Boys are falling way behind. What seems to blind people to this fact is the fact that the boys who do well end up doing very well. But that's letting the top speak for the whole.

[ElectroPrincess]

13. Yes, but you forget that if they SPLIT the sexes for education ...

All the gifted teachers would be *assigned* to the boys. Don't kid yourself, sexism is alive and well in the world of the Right Wing nutjobs and Fundamentalist American Taliban.

Watch and see how not only abortion but basic birth control will be made more difficult to obtain.

IMO Freepers HATE intelligent and assertive women. Anything that will push women down is always in their smarmy wet dreams.

[kennetha]

15. Ideological blinders

I think you've got ideological blinders on. I think they prevent you from seeing that boys, taken as a whole, are not thriving.

I'm a feminist. Don't get me wrong. But you shouldn't let your feminism blind you to the reality of life for boys (and men) but right now I'm just talking about boys. Boys who succeed do very well. But lots and lots of boys don't succeed in school. A hugely disproportionate share of school failures are boys.

We haven't really given that very much thought. I think partly because we've been much more concerned with making progress for women and girls.

But the two things aren't incompatible. We can look both at the particular situations of boys and men and at the particular situations of girls and women and try to address both.

[ElectroPrincess]

18. I'm FAR from blind ...

I was one of the FIRST women to become integrated into the Army with the men. I was one of the FIRST women to graduate one of the few Infantry Schools permitting women to enroll during the late seventies: Airborne!

Trust me, I am NOT blind. However, I remember the dues I had to pay and how I had to be twice as good as the men. Especially in Airborne School where 1 in 30 were women, I know SEXISM. Up front and personal.

I proved myself competent at both Airborne School and later serving as an Army Intelligence officer. There were numerous Military Officers who wanted us to fail. However, many women who served in the military during the late 70s and 80s cleared the way for an integrated Army.

No, I have my eyes wide open. Whether it be within the "educational system" or within the "active duty military" SEPARATE is not ever EQUAL. A look through the history books will fill you in on that fact.

[kennetha]

20. You miss the point.

you miss my point entirely. Couldn't have missed it more if you tried.

[ElectroPrincess]

23. No, I don't miss the point ...

Both boys and girls CAN learn. By separating the sexes you are encouraging a very DANGEROUS social agenda. We'll go back to "boys games" and "girls games."

Dammit, you want integration of peoples NOT segregation. This argument of yours is so untenable and promoting prejudices, I'm astounded that you CAN possibly be a true feminist. Feminists wish for women to be "fully integrated" within society.

We disagree, that's all.

[kennetha]

28. Do you know anything?

I think you need to read a little developmental psychology. THere's all kinds of research out there from which you could benefit by being exposed to.

You really do have ideological blinders on. And you really are missing my point.

About "boy games" and "girls games." Did you know that there's lots of research that shows that despite the best and most determined efforts of teachers and parents to create "integrated" play groups, girls and boys at about age 6 or so segregate themselves into gendered play groups and develop different styles of play, that boys don't like to play in girl play groups, and girls don't like to play in girl play groups. Girls are, though, more tolerant than boys. That is, girls are more willing to accept boys into their groups than boys are to accept girls into their groups. And boys are really hard on boys who "defect" to girl play groups.

Play styles vary around the world from culture to culture. But it's nearly universal that boys and girls enforce their own gender divisions -- whatever parents and teachers try to do.


OF course, they do come back together eventually, as they approach sexual maturity.


But it's not just "sexism" that segregates boys and girls.

[ElectroPrincess]

33. I have earned a masters degree in Physiological Psychology. :-)

Yes! To include an experimentally based thesis submission complete with an oral defense.

Further, I've had numerous classes in Developmental Psychology, to include, assisting a professor index an upcoming text in THAT FIELD.

Please cease with the personal insults?

Perhaps these studies MAY point to some difficulties that may negatively effect boys. All the more that they receive appropriate counseling and tutoring to "catch up." However, please also note that it takes an *accumulation* of carefully controlled studies to build a viable conclusion, i.e., boys suffer academically within integrated classrooms.

If the above hypothesis proves good science, the next question is: "Why does their performance lag behind the girls?" An additional consideration can also be = "Can boys' performance be improved without segregating the sexes within the classroom?"

Once you SEGREGATE any two classes of people, prejudice and discrimination thrives.

Yes, address these issues with regard to boys' performance and work through an "action plan" that includes both the parents and the educators. That's the answer, NEVER SEGREGATION.

On edit: I've discovered that the more I know about the Field of Psychology, the more I realize what I do NOT know. That is, albeit there are numerous social science studies pointing to the differences between races and sexes, I wish to look for what we have IN COMMON. I only wish for all types of peoples to live, learn and work peacefully together. Let's not turn back the hands of time?

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

22. Congratulations on breaking down some of those barriers for

women.

Way to go.

I only seriously wanted to say that.

:applause:

[ElectroPrincess]

24. Thank you kindly ...

I never want any other young woman to have to endure the abuse that I tolerated (and asked for more). It was a good thing for me that I was a track star and an athlete in general because they tested me over and over. I hope that my daughter will never be exposed to the prejudice and discrimination that existed in the late 70s within both the civilian work force and the "integrating" Military.

Thanks again, you're quite thoughtful. :-)

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

26. You are quite welcome. It is women like you who are able and

willing to brave the difficulties that pave the way for others.

And THAT is really a wonderful thing.

:)

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

16. I voted yes

because I've heard of a lot of studies that show that girls learn more, get more attention, and grow up with more confidence when they are taught in separate classrooms.

And these are formative years. Later they'll have to go into workplaces with both male and females, but if they've acquired more self-confidence from this type of schooling it will come more naturally to be that way in the workplace.

Boys generally are more hyper, draw more attention, etc.

[kennetha]

17. Not always positive attention

Boys "drawing more attention" often means being scolded or reprimanded, because younger boys have a much harder time sometimes staying on task than girls.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

19. True, but nevertheless it still means energy and time spent on boys

cause the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

I think being ignored in favor of even negative attention for some boys has got to leave some girls feeling less confident and important.

And that is what I've read.

[ElectroPrincess]

21. Look at the Girls' status in America when they are taught in

SEPARATE schools? This is a very bad idea. Women's rights will be trashed if you buy-into the "poor boys" defense.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

25. self delete, posted in reply to the wrong post

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

27. Research Study Done: "Single-Gender Classes: Are They Better?"

'Wesley Sharpe offers two points of view on this hot topic! What happens to the bright-eyed exuberance of girls between the primary grades and high school graduation? Do schools shortchange boys? Could single-gender classes or schools make a difference? Some California educators think so.'


"On opening day of the 1999 school year, the Jefferson Leadership Academies became the first public middle school in the country to offer separate classes for boys and girls. About 1,000 uniformed sixth, seventh, and eighth graders entered single-gender classes.

"Some people pay a lot of money to send their children to these kinds of schools. ... We thought maybe this is something that could work in a public school setting," Kristi Kahl, coordinator of the Long Beach California Unified School District's middle school reform, told the Los Angeles Times ("Same-Sex Classes to be Offered at Long Beach Middle School"; May 9, 1999). "It is really hard to say how you can attribute to gender separation, how much you can attribute to instruction, and how much you can attribute to parent commitment. But in reality, probably all of those things come into play."

It's too early to judge the success or failure of the Jefferson Leadership Academies. "But there is evidence of change," principal Jill Rojas told Education World. According to a report recently released by the Long Beach USD Office of Research, Planning and Evaluation, the students are doing very well. The district has compared cumulative grade point averages (GPAs) to current GPAs for all students who attended Jefferson in 1998-99 and who are currently enrolled in 1999-2000. Among the findings:


"Student grade point averages for students who had previously attended Jefferson in either grades 6 or 7 increased for all students, male and female, in both grades 7 and 8 under the single gender academy configuration.

"The increase was statistically significant for both genders at grade 7 and for males at grade 8." ..."

http://www.education-world.com/a_curr/curr215.shtml

[countingbluecars]

31. It is important that boys interact

with girls in a learning environment. For some, it is the only place where they learn that girls are intelligent human beings. They certainly aren't getting that message from tv, video games, magazines, etc.

[Book Lover]

32. And for girls to interact with boys

I was in a Catholic girls-only high school. I developed zero coping skills and considered teenage boys and young men to be a separate species, practically. It would have done me a world and a half of good to be educated with males.

[AUYellowDog]

35. seperate but equal??? n/t