Scott McClellan blames the CLENIS for prewar intelligence in Iraq

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

WASHINGTON - The White House sought to deflect politically charged questions Wednesday about President Bush's use of prewar intelligence in Iraq, saying Democrats, too, had concluded Saddam Hussein was a threat.

"If Democrats want to talk about the threat that Saddam Hussein posed and the intelligence, they might want to start with looking at the previous administration and their own statements that they've made," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.

He said the Clinton administration and fellow Democrats "used the intelligence to come to the same conclusion that Saddam Hussein and his regime were a threat."

McClellan made his comments one day after Senate Democrats sprung a surprise, forcing a rare closed-door session to dramatize their charge that Bush relied on faulty intelligence in the run-up to war and congressional Republicans have failed to sufficiently investigate.

[YDogg]

1. This just in: Scott McClellan is a stupid asshole.

An old, tired tactic. Nobody believes anything Scott McClellan says, anymore, because he is an established liar.

[mbodnar]

4. He has a pretty good point

If bushie is a liar, then alot of our guys are too.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from , but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years . We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime . He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction . So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ..." Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. You still around?

[Vickers]

10. Wow, some Dems were fooled by George's pre-war lies about Iraq!!!

What a fucking SHOCKER!

Oh, and welcome to DU yadda yadda yadda... :eyes:

[mbodnar]

14. Many of the statements

were made well before bushie was selected though. We are going to look like fools if Harry Reid gets open hearings.

[YDogg]

19. By "we" I guess you mean Bush boot lickers?

Yeah, you will look like a fool.

[Vickers]

20. OMIGAWD, you are right!!!!! That's it, I pledge allegiance to Father Bush

:rofl:

Dude, you are so incredibly fucked in the head. If you think that Bushie is OK, then go spank your little monkey to his hokey fake-ass cowboy shitwalk, all over your parents' basement, OK?

It's gonna be a laugh when he is convicted for all of his war crimes.

Oh, and FUCK YOU! :hi:

[mbodnar]

25. Gee how polite,

But the point is that both bush and clinton felt the same , but chose to handle the problem differently. That may be ripe for a policy debate, but saying that Bush is a liar just makes us look stupid. We need to go after the policy, and what a stupid choice it was. What's going on now just looks like sour grapes.

[Vickers]

28. "makes us look stupid"

:rofl:

You crack me up, patriot!

[mbodnar]

32. Maybe childish would be a better word,

but either way, the liar argument is flawed, and will not bring about any change.

[Vickers]

39. OK, I'll just call him a "lying sack of shit"

There...still friends? :pals:

[manic expression]

54. It is not flawed. It is correct

he lied.

For further reading: see Downing Street Memo, see Richard Clark's writings and interviews

[Beaverhausen]

23. try looking here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5245866

[dchill]

43. Not THAT many...

and while many believed there were weapons (stands to reason, they knew what Reagan & Bush I had given him), they did not advocate an illegal invasion, wholesale bombing of innocent Iraqis, and the deaths of thousands of our National Guard and regular troops.

Get it? They did not vote for that. They voted, based on huge lies, to give the president the authority to use force if it became necessary. Thanks to the mushroom cloud mirage, it seemed necessary.

[Skittles]

so what?

did a Democrat plan an ill-advised invasion that has become a freaking QUAGMIRE? GET LOST.

[spooky3]

11. Half of your quotes are from 7+ years ago. So Bush

and cronies learned NOTHING since he was elected?

[Jacobin]

16. He responded with launching missiles

NOT with a foolhardy acceptance of the neo-con naivete' that we should 'democratize' the middle east.

How on earth could you compare the two administration's reactions to this geopolitical issue?

How on earth?

[Beaverhausen]

17. oh goodie! a live one. lets play with it for a while

so which Fox show is your favorite?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

74. ...

I love the "let's grab every statement ever made by a dem" approach.

Fun stuff. MKJ

:hi:

[derby378]

18. Once upon a time...

...citizens were taught to believe everything the current President said without asking any uncomfortable questions. No more.

[bigbrother05]

22. But if were going to back in history

We have to remember where saddam got the weapons. Poppy and rummy.

[mbodnar]

27. Yep

And those are the kind of points that need made to actualy come out on top of this one.

[springhill]

30. There is one big difference.........

What you do with that information, even if you believe it to be true. That's why supposedly we had inspections. But of course those inspections could not possibly be carried out because when the fact that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction was discovered, their reasons for going to war would had been gone. And may I remind people that this invasion would have taken place with or without Saddam Hussein in power. Look at PNAC. It had nothing to do with a threat, and everything to do with being in control of the region. Weapons of Mass Destruction, as we all know, had nothing to do with our invasion, nor will it be when we invade Syria and Iran.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

35. Let's take a look at gwb's quote about Saddam and OBL shall we?

George W Bush: said Saddam was preparing to attack the US
In a speech in Cincinnati on Monday night, Mr Bush said Saddam Hussein was linked with Osama bin Laden. "We know that Iraq and the al-Qa'eda terrorist network share a common enemy: the United States of America," he said.

"We know that Iraq and al-Qa'eda have had high-level contacts that go back a decade. Some al-Qa'eda leaders who fled Afghanistan went to Iraq. These include one very senior al-Qa'eda leader who received medical treatment in Baghdad this year and who has been associated with planning for chemical and biological attacks.

"We have learned that Iraq has trained al-Qa'eda members in bomb making and poisons and deadly gases. And we know that after September 11, Saddam Hussein's regime gleefully celebrated the terrorist attacks on America."

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2...

MKJ

on edit, old link, however, speech from 9/10/2002

[mbodnar]

38. The only problem

with any of that is none of it can be proven untrue and who knows, maybe some or all of it was. We did give them 14 months to prepare for the invasion which IMO was a mistake.
All I do know is that after spending a year in Afghanistan, and almost 2 in Iraq, that my outfit found nothing.
yes, I am a left leaning soldier, actualy an officer.

[The_Casual_Observer]

41. actualy an officer of what?

[mbodnar]

53. The US Army

[manic expression]

56. I'm just curious...

What was your unit? Who was your CO? Where were you stationed? How long were your tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Again, I'm just curious.

[mbodnar]

67. 82nd airborne

div out of fort brag NC. I was a lifer so my tour of duty was as long as needed, but now with 20 years in I'm retired. I was a logistics officer, responsible for maintaining supply chains.In Iraq I was in charge of supply to Abu Ghraib, along with other places. and no, I didn't beat up any PUC's, lots of guys did, but I'm not one of them. My CO was Lt. Col. Hiebert. Do you know him?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

69. I'm hooked up with a local chapter of VFP...I plan to contact IVAW shortly

There's an extremely active chapter in Colorado Springs.

I'll pass along your good wishes. MKJ

[manic expression]

70. And...

which company in the 82nd Airborne? What exact rank did you hold? Exactly where were you stationed overseas (not just what you did)?

Once again, I'm just curious....

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

71. You didn't mention being retired in your previous post.

You described yourself as a soldier, vs. a veteran.

It helps if you have the verbiage down.

MKJ

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

45. Ah, yes, proving a negative...""none can be proven untrue"

However, the only one to launch this extremely dubious accusation was gwb et. al.

Your statements seem to indicate that you support this war, however flimsy the premise.

Welcome to DU. MKJ

[manic expression]

52. How is it not proven untrue?

There were no WMD's. Period. Bush lied and destroyed untold numbers of lives and an entire country in the process. Furthermore, there was not one justification for the invasion. Not one.

The mistake was invading a country for no reason in the first place. Does "Crimes Against the Peace" mean anything to you? I guess not. Look it up.

[mbodnar]

55. actualy thats not true

Some other units found things that many would consider WMD.

[manic expression]

57. Like what

and please say that artillery shell. Please.

[mbodnar]

59. Some things that I personaly know were found

1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium

1,500 gallons of chemical weapons agents

17 chemical warheads containing cyclosarin

Over 1,000 radioactive materials in powdered form

Roadside bombs loaded with mustard and conventional sarin gas, assembled in binary chemical projectiles

[manic expression]

62. Links? Sources?

About those "bombs loaded with mustard and conventional sarin gas":
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3407853.stm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33082-2004May17.html

From the second link:
"The experts, including David Kay, the Pentagon's former top weapons hunter in Iraq, said the discovery did not conclusively prove the existence of stockpiles of concealed chemical and biological weapons....

Kay, the former leader of the Iraq Survey Group, said the shell was likely one of thousands produced for the Iran-Iraq war....

In Washington, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld reacted cautiously to the news, saying he preferred to wait for further testing before commenting on the significance of the discovery."

From the first link, here are those further tests:
"But further tests by the Iraq Survey Group in South Iraq and the US Department of Energy's National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory in Idaho proved these results were incorrect."

...

Without evidence, you only have baseless claims.

I personally know my friend saw the Tooth Fairy. :eyes:

[The_Casual_Observer]

63. Oh brother. You are taking about the material under UN seal right?

Who sent you here karl rove?

chemical weapons agents - was this the insecticide?

You are completely full of shit buster, you couldn't even be stupid enough to believe the shit you have written here.

[Vickers]

66. Bwahahahahahaha, this is HUGH!!!!eleven111!!!!111111111

Dude, what did you weigh the 1.77 metric (hey, that's based on 10, right?) tons of uranium on?

If you spent one fucking day in the military, I'll eat my goddam DD-214 (that's my discharge paperwork, just FYI).

I'll be glad to post mine!

[Vickers]

65. So, you've spent 3 years there since operations started 2.5 years ago?

:rofl:

Math...it's not just for breakfast anymore. :spank:

"actualy an officer" :rofl:

[mbodnar]

68. I think you need to read the post a bit better

Nearly 2 years is = about 20 months.

[Vickers]

75. OK, 20 months, plus 12 months = 32 months

You've been there 32 months out of the last (does quick calculation) 31 months?

Bwahahahahahahaha!!!!! :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[mbodnar]

78. Again I ask you to read the post

We went into afghanistan on Oct 01, which is over 4 years ago.
After 12 months, and some time off, we were redeployed to Iraq.
I am not sure what you are missing here, but it's not that complex.

[manic expression]

79. You went INTO Afghanistan on Oct. 01, 2001?

"At approximately 16:30 UTC (12:30 EDT, 21:00 local time) on Sunday October 7, 2001, US and British forces began an aerial bombing campaign targeting Taliban forces and al-Qaeda."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._invasion_of_Afghanistan

....

[Vickers]

82. All these facts getting in the way of his reputed patriotism!!!

:patriot:

[Andromeda]

42. Go away.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

47. Scott McClellan has a "pretty good point". Now that's a new and different

point of view.

Welcome to DU. MKJ

:hi:

[manic expression]

49. Umm...

A lot of "us" (about all of "us") disagree with those statements. As one poster pointed out, most of them were made during the clamor of the neo-con's war drums. You will find that people here are not so forgetful of how they were conned, but it is true that they were not the con-men.

The first quote from Clinton is not a claim of WMD's at all, but a statement that he would oppose such a development.

Aside from that, Madeline Albright isn't too popular with "us", as she said the starvation of 4,000 Iraqi children a month was "worth it", in regards to the sanctions on Iraq. She isn't one of "us" with those kinds of statements.

I would also like to point out that pretty much every other quote is from 1998, which is, unless you forgot, a 4 year difference between then and the beginning of the march to Bush's little misadventure. Also, unless you forgot, that was when Clinton struck Iraq (rightly or wrongly, that is immaterial in our discussion) in late 1998, citing WMD programs as the reason for doing so. The situation in regards to Iraq was completely different, as well as having to do with a separate action altogether, and therefore cannot be used to rationalize Bush's lies (or many Democrats' willingness to go along with such a disaster).

You should also provide a link as a source. I don't think it matters all too much in this case, but you need to in the future.

[dennis4868]

77. I did not read all your quotes....

but the Clinton quotes are from before Clinton bombed Iraq and according to the military destroyed just about all of Saddam weapons facilities....many of the other qoutes are from Dem senators who were stupid enough to believe Bush that Saddam was a threat.

So Simple Scotty does not make any sense!

[asthmaticeog]

2. Why yes, and the Clinton administration ALSO

started a war that's killed 2,000 Americans an who knows how many Iraqi civilians.

Oh wait, they didn't? That was Bush? Sowwy! :blush:

[Gronk Groks]

3. But the Democrats didn't invade Iraq...

...the RETHUGS invaded Iraq! Saddam was contained, like we contained Russia. Sure there were leaks in the sanctions, but they still kept Saddam away from WMD's.

ReThugs = The no accountability party...

[oregonindy]

5. and the simple way to deal with this crap.....

Q- did Clinton invade Iraq
A- no
Q did bush Invade Iraq
A - Yes


hmmmm seems like one of these people made a mistake...which one?

could it be....satan....er I mean bush?

[mbodnar]

8. Because Clinton did not have the balls to actualy do something about it.

[Vickers]

12. Then why are so many RWers concerned with his balls (and penis)?

:shrug:

Maybe they want to go down on him or something.

[Ignacio Upton]

13. You mean Clinton acted responsibly and not drag us into a

war that posed no legitimate threat to us? Enjoy your stay while it lasts.

[Beaverhausen]

24. Do something about what? Saddam wasn't a threat to us

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

34. self delete.

the poster's fixation on testicles got the better of me. MKJ

[oregonindy]

36. you say balls I say brains....

2030+ dead soldiers for what?
10,000+ dead iraqi civilians dead for what?
billions and billions of dollars wasted for what?

[tanyev]

46. It was a trap, I tell you!

See, Clinton wanted to go to war, but he knew that if he held off and let the Bush administration (because of course Clinton knew that Bush would be the next president) invade Iraq, that they would really screw it up and it would make them look incompetent. And then, the country would be so disgusted with Bush and the Republicans that Hillary would have a clear shot at the White House. Boy, did they walk right into that one!

FEAR THE MIGHTY, OMNISCIENT CLENIS!

[TheFarseer]

6. President Clinton made those statements

with the goal of keeping sanctions on Iraq so that they couldn't develop WMD's and nukes. If repukes had their way, they would have been selling him anything and everything to make a dime. These fools distorted President Clinton's statements and the intelligence of half a dozen countries to invade a country that posed no threat.

[dennisnyc]

7. i can't believe he hasn't resigned -- just to keep some sense of dignity-

After being used by Liddy....ah...uuh... LIbbey and Rove to get the lies out. Can you imagine? He knows we all know he's full of shit and he goes out to spout every day....his days are numbered IMHO.

[xultar]

15. We all know Clinton was the blame for the bad intel...it went like this

Clinton got a Blow Job
While getting the BJ he called OBL and said hey I'm gonna fix some intel on IRAQ wanna play?
OBL was like OK
Clinton who we already know was to the blame for 9/11 told OBL what to do
Then Clinton said we'll make it look like IRAQ had something to do with it. OBL was like KEWL

Then Clinton snuck into the white house took the REAL CIA documents and replaced them with the dasteredly faked out ones he talked about with OBL.

Then Clinton snuck out and :evilgrin:

By the way Clinton picked out My Pet Goat and told George to stay there even while we were being attacked. Clinton told George that it would make him to look like a real leader wouldn't be interrupted by a big bad terrorist attack by a towel headded 7ft tall fruit cake.

The end.

[musette_sf]

48. hahahahaha

too bad for the repukes that it's really more like:

W got a Blow Job
From Gannon
While getting the BJ he called OBL and said Hey Stretch, how's the air up there?
OBL was like Hahahaha you got me Cowboy Brother.
Then W said Hey, ya finished going through that PNAC stuff yet?
And OBL was like Dude, you rock, I'm down with it.

and we all know the rest of the story.

[xultar]

50. Gannon, pretty hott rhymes with cannon.

[carrowsboy]

21. The dreaded Clenis!

Oh you know those up-tight, board up their ass Repukes would just love to have been Monica for a day.

To have the Clenis in their own mouths ready to explode with all that sweet, liberal nectar.

They can try and hide it all they like, but deep down we know they want the CLENIS!

And they want it BAD!

[okieinpain]

26. ok, i don't understand mbodnar comes up with quotes and he

gets dumped on. can someone help me with this please, now if he made up the quotes cool dump on his ass. but it looks like these are actual quotes from trusted dems.

to me bush's use of wmd's isn't what he did wrong. to me it's the suppression of evidence that saddam did not have wmd's (DSM), is what he did wrong.

help a brother out please.

[Vickers]

29. Were the quotes within, say, the last 12 months?

Many people have learned a lot in the last year, even elected officials. :eyes:

[okieinpain]

33. ok that sounds better then some of the other post. I mean wow

the dude got his ass handed to him for something other folks said.

[Vickers]

40. I apologize for my hamhanded forthrightness

Although I trust my suspicions will be supported eventually. :toast:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

44. Hey, anyone who says Scotty has a "good point" will have a

somewhat challenging time here. MKJ

:toast:

[mbodnar]

51. I call them like I see them.

Sometimes I agree with one side, sometimes the other.

[manic expression]

58. And what 'side'

would you be agreeing with now?

[mbodnar]

61. on what issue?

[manic expression]

64. Perhaps the one you brought up

Just a thought.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

60. So, sometimes you agree with Scotty.In this neck of woods

we consider him a weak assed, limp pathetic liar.

MKJ

[mbodnar]

31. Perfect

If that could be proven Bush is gone, probably the veep also.

[manic expression]

73. Proof?

See Downing Street Memo/Minutes. See Richard Clark's writings and interviews.

Lack of proof is not nearly the reason as to why Bush is not out of office.

[oregonindy]

37. no problems with the quotes....no love for demopublicans or republicrats

I do have a problem with trying to saddle a previous admininstration with the mistakes of the present one.

George Bush senior did not invade and take over Iraq
Clinton did not invade and take over Iraq

It was All Georgie Junior who invaded and took over Iraq. This is completley 100% his decision and his problem no one elses.

period end of fucking story!

[zulchzulu]

72. Hit the big "Blame Clinton" button....again...

These fuckers will take ZERO responsibility for their actions.

What Clinton said 7 years ago is absolutely irrelevant. What was said with information that was based on lies is not relevant either.

But if we want to play that game, then Saddam and Osama are Reagan's fault....actually that's true, but it would make Freeperzoids heads explode...

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mbodnar]

80. Anyways...

Good night guys, its been a fun debate.
By the way, I have no link or source to the mustard gas and other things I posted, these are based on things I was told by people I trust. My unit found nothing (as I posted before) so take it for what its worth. I am sure there is a book or web page somewhere to back it up but I am to old and lazy to look for it.

[mbodnar]

81. one more thing

what is MJK, I will check back tomorow.

[Catchawave]

83. McClennan is the Jar Jar Binks of this administration.....

so. very. annoying.

BUT, the difference is, I like Jar Jar better :)