So we are going to end up with 5 Catholic males, a token female

[Erika]

and a token black. The GOP touch. No wonder so many countries openly laugh at us when we proclaim diversity.

[IndianaGreen]

1. 3 of those males are members of Opus Dei

Roberts, Scalia, Thomas.

The Pope has too much influence in our Supreme Court.

[madrchsod]

6. back in the good old days

kennedy was accused by the wasp`s that he`d take orders from the pope. before that these same wasp`s thought the catholics were one step above the jews. now the wasp`s have installed them to do their bidding.

[IndianaGreen]

7. Today's Vatican is not the same that existed when JFK was running

Italian Popes may well have been less orthodox than Polish and German Popes, perhaps it is because Italy has a history of multi-party elections that lead to a lot of coalition building.

[bluedawg12]

13. It's also because central Europe former iron curtain countries

look at religion as a mixture of Christianity and mysticism and old world superstitions.

These places are homophobic and anti-semitic historically, and the years behind the iron curtain kept 20th century liberalism at bay.

[MichiganVote]

41. The Vatican during the 60's and 70's was willfully hiding its pedophiles

The Vatican's idea of coalition building was promoting the idea that sick priests are best moved from Bishop to Bishop in a hopscotch pattern. Thats coalition building, Vatican style.

spell/edit

[IndianaGreen]

8. self delete n/t

[nashville_brook]

15. is Alita Opus Dei as well?

i would find it hard to believe he isn't.

[Bridget Burke]

32. Where's a good source for that information?

Everything I've been able to find has included the word "alleged".

Documented cases of Opus Dei's influence in the government of other countries would also be useful.

[Ouabache]

48. I KNEW it. More Opus Dei.

Opus Dei has how many members in the US? 70,000 or so. And 33% of the SCOTUS. Is Alito Opus Dei as well?

If I was a betting man, I would lay money on it that we will find out he is. This is getting absurd, but then so is Opus Dei. Thanks IG for answering this. Sometimes I am not around here a lot, and I had wondered if Roberts was, now I know. This will fuck us for years.

[blitzen]

2. And you'd think that the Fundy Evangelicals would start to get the hint...

They're good enough to vote for Repukes but not smart enough to sit on the Supreme Court. They seem to have to rely on right-wing Catholics to do their judicial dirty work.

[AndyTiedye]

18. No Matter. The Fundies Have Taken over the Catholic Church

with the ascention of Maledict to the Papacy, that takeover is now complete.

[Zynx]

34. Eh? Benedict really doesn't like "fundie" Christians at all. "Deficient"

That was the term he used for their theology. That's a pretty major theological slap. Deserved, imo, but still, major.

~~

There's a rather massive difference between conservative Roman Catholicism and fundamentalist evangelical Christianity.

Nevermind how explicitly anti-Catholic most of the fundamentalist Protestants are.

[Bridget Burke]

36. Don't confuse them with facts.

By its definition, Christian Fundamentalism is NOT Roman Catholic.

www.ianpaisley.org/toc.asp?loc=rome

[FrankX]

56. The education is better.

[tocqueville]

3. the problem is the whole institution not the composition

other democratic countries don't have such an archaic set up with judges politically designed for life.

the judges power is much more limited in other countries, most of laws are passed in parliaments. Specially important ones.

"the separation of powers" as provided in the US constitution is very, very discutable from a democratic point of view.

[maddiejoan]

4. Can't wait--

Until they re-open the trial of Joan of Arc.

[NoSheep]

16. Now there's a perky avatar!

:7

[maddiejoan]

30. Thanks!

:7

[Fridays Child]

5. I'm telling you if only Ted Kennedy would come out foursquare in favor...

...of his Catholic brother, Alito, it would put the kiss of death on this nomination.

[Fenris]

28. He wouldn't.

And besides, the ultra-orthodox claim Kennedy isn't a "good" Catholic anyway because of his stance on abortion.

[KT2000]

9. This is scary

Is the current conservative pope going to be calling the shots for the US? He injected himself in the last election and now there will be control of the court.
Besides their opinion on abortion, there is contraception and who knows what else.

[Erika]

11. Yep, the Catholics will control 5 of the 9 seats

and they are all white males.

[tx_dem41]

14. Hmmm...I read that Kennedy had to put up with "anti-popery"

statements back in the 1960 campaign. I didn't realize that such bigotry still existed today...especially among Democrats.

Sad.

[KT2000]

19. figured someone would

see it that way. Bigotry? No.

During the Reagan admin. the Vatican was given the same status as another country and an ambassador. The problem is though, the leader of the Vatican is the religious leader for people all over the world.

At that time they cut deals with the administration that cut funding for family planning worldwide. many poor women have died in childbirth because they no longer have access to birth control. Our foreign policy reflects the Catholic church's position on birth control.

During the last election, Kerry was criticized by the now pope for supporting a woman's right to choose and essentially said that Catholics should not vote for Kerry. Surrogates - meaning other Catholics in this country and Republicans seized that and made Kerry's campaign as anti-Catholic.

I could give a crap what someone's religion is but when the church in Rome involves itself in the affairs of the US and can turn out the dogs on those Catholics in our government who do not conform to the position of the church - I am concerned.

As far as I can tell, Alito's positions are consistent with the church - positions I do not agree with. If he were to dissent he would face the wrath of the pope.

This is about power.

[nashbridges]

20. Being a good Catholic

Does not mean you have to do the Pope's bidding whenever he tells you to jump. The church is well aware that a person's job might not line up with the beliefs of the church, and how to handle it is a matter of great debate currently.

Just because a bishop or two suggests a Catholic politician shouldn't receive communion for being pro-choice does not mean that position is church dogma.

Do some research.

[IndianaGreen]

22. You are describing the traditional American Catholic position

unfortunately, Rome has been hard at work trying to impose its orthodoxy all across the Church. The old practice of letting its faithful exercise their conscience has come under attack.

Here is an example of what I am talking about:

Two sidelined after protesting altar call on ban on gay marriage

By Maria Cramer, Globe Staff | October 27, 2005

At the pulpit of St. Gabriel Church in Brighton, an official from the Catholic Archdiocese of Boston was telling parishioners how to sign a petition to ban same-sex marriage in Massachusetts.

As he looked on, said Patrick Kilduff, the church's organist for 28 years, he grew angry that the archdiocese had chosen a Saturday Mass to make what he considered a political statement.

So before he was supposed to play the closing hymn of the Mass on Oct. 8 , Kilduff walked away from his organ in protest. His cantor, Colleen Bryant, stood in front of the congregation and told them that they did not have to sign the petition if they did not want to.

Moments later on that rainy Saturday afternoon, the church pastor fired Bryant, and Kilduff resigned in a fury.

In an interview yesterday, Kilduff recalled telling the priests of the parish: '' 'I'm done. I can't believe what you guys have done.' "

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/10/27/two_sidelined_after_protesting_altar_call_on_ban_on_gay_marriage/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+City%2FRegion+News

[nashbridges]

24. That's one church

Not Rome. There is a difference.

And you'll note that no one was excommunicated during this fracas, either. The priest shouldn't have used the service to make a political play.

[KT2000]

31. Research indeed

I am not talking about being a good Catholic. I am talking about the union of the Catholic church with the conservative movement that started in the reagan admin. The alignment is for political gain - not religious purposes.

It was at this time that the US started to deny funds to international organizations that did not conform to the new rules against abortion and some birth control. They started teaching the freaking rhythm method!! As a result, many women have lost access to even health care. We are talking about the poorest of the poor.

When Kerry explained his position regarding abortion and his religion, the now pope Ratzenberger (sp?) initiated objections to him based on his position on abortion. This was not about denying communion - this was a shot across the bow that US Catholics were supposed to hear.

Five Catholic justices??? If the Catholic justices can separate their civic duty from their religion- fine. But this is a court intentionally stacked to take government control of women's bodies.

[mitchum]

25. No offense, but...bring on the lions!

I find it telling that your avatar is of someone who ended his days as a deranged, drunken, reactionary Catholic. He was never a very good writer, though.
"That's not writing...that's typing" Capote on Mr K's work

[tx_dem41]

29. Capote is hardly worthy of being a critic of anyone's writing.

Perhaps you should read about what a miserable failure Capote ended up being.

I am not a Catholic btw. I am an Atheist. But, as an Atheist, just as I wish others' to respect my personal beliefs, I will respect their's.

[mitchum]

40. Earning the ire of a handful of not-so-beautiful "beautiful people"...

hardly constitutes a miserable failure.
Good luck on getting those skygod-worshipping fools to respect your personal beliefs. Let me know how that works out for you.

[thebigidea]

38. you pull this faux-outrage every day or two on whatever subject is handy

the other day it was "oh, I thought we were better than picking on the family of a judge blah blah blah but no we're not blah blah blah"

[tx_dem41]

39. One correction...

its not "faux" outrage. Its real.

[Zynx]

33. Yay, cue the "takes orders from Rome" Catholic bashing on DU

Amazing this is tolerated on this site. It's one of the more disturbing forms of bigotry in American history.

[Bridget Burke]

35. Hey, these guys have an old history in the USA!

Nativists were sure those furriners would let Rome take control. Even before the KKK! And--since when has the Religious Right embraced the Catholic Church? Sites like this one are closer to the reality:

www.angelfire.com/ky/dodone/AFEC.html

Perhaps someone ought to tell those fearful of the all-powerful Opus Dei that "Da Vinci Code" was fiction?

[mitchum]

44. Yes, just like "Lives of the Saints", "Da Vinci Code" is also fiction

I've never read the latter potboiler, but Opus Dei is REAL. Maybe you people shouldn't have let them take over your blessed mother Church? Just a thought...

[Bridget Burke]

47. So find some real facts that prove Opus Dei is a threat to you.

There's lots of folklore out there.

And I'm an Atheist.

[mitchum]

43. And the Catholic church has such a STELLAR history...

sorry, but a few decades of liberation theology really doesn't go very far in wiping out its record of death, theft and venality.
Hey, I bash ALL religions

[KT2000]

45. Let's talk power

not religion.

During the Reagan admin. the Vatican was given the same status as another country and an ambassador. Things started to happen.

The reagan administration cut funding for family planning worldwide. US funds to international organizations concerned with womens health issues must adhere to rules that forbid abortion (counseling too) and most birth control or no funds from the US. These women are the poorest of the poor. Some of these women die. I care about that.

During the last election, Kerry was criticized by the Vatican for supporting a woman's right to choose. The current pope was the one who instigated that.

I could give a crap what someone's religion is but when five of the justices are Catholic men I know what is up.
The issue is government control of women's bodies and the SC is being stacked to accomplish that.

[rockymountaindem]

10. Hey, we've still got 2 members of the Jew Crew (TM)!

That's gotta count for something!

[Erika]

12. Not with the likes of Faux News saying they are tired of the

minority oppressing the majority.

[dogday]

49. I love that, man I love that

The constitution was based on the premise that the minority would get the same rights as the majority. That no matter how big one group of people become, the smaller group will always have a voice and a way of expressing that voice....

Nice to see how Faux has it backward yet again...

[DanCa]

17. I really have a problem with theocrats - other than that I dont care what

religion someone is.

[Opusnone]

21. Catholic Church is pouring money into PR

Remember two years ago? The Church was in the shit. Embroiled in scandals, pedophile preists everywhere, lawsuits, hell, even the current pope was involved.
They hired a PR firm (just a guess) to reaffirm and reestablish the far-flung power and ferocity of the church while sweeping all problems under the rug. Looks like it's working.
Do you remember a time when the public talked so openly and frankly about God and religion (Christianity)? I don't.
Chalk it up to good PR, nothing else. They don't have the numbers of fanatics, they just have loud voices and bully pulpits.
The progessives, who don't want to live under a repuke Theocracy should take a few pointers from the Catholic church playbook.

On the plus side, we're not starting from the same depths of shit they were, we get to begin on the ground level.

[Nikki Stone 1]

27. The LA archdiocese certainly hired a PR firm (link and snippet below)

http://www.prwatch.org/forum/showpost.php?p=275&postcount=1

"After months of headlines about abusive priests, the Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles has engaged Sitrick & Co., a prominent and expensive public relations firm specializing in high-profile clients with big troubles," reports the Los Angeles Times. "Known for navigating clients through bad publicity, Sitrick has represented Enron after the energy giant's fall, talk show host Laura Schlessinger after her negative comments about gays, actress Halle Berry after her traffic accident, comedian Paula Poundstone after her child-endangerment case and Orange County during its 1995 bankruptcy." "We're really proud to be involved in this," says Sitrick.
SOURCE: Los Angeles Times, May 30, 2002

[leesa]

23. It's funny and puzzling though....the GOP Fascist Fundies HATE

Catholics and think they are the devil's work. Hmmmmm...

[Straight Shooter]

26. Yes, true, but way back when, the Catholic Church instituted ...

... the Inquisition!

A Church which once employed such techniques, as far as Repubs are concerned, can't be all bad.

:sarcasm:

[FrankX]

53. How about us progressives

and the guillotine }(

[Straight Shooter]

58. Yes, indeed.

But we rid the country of the parasites, oui? And death by guillotine, as opposed to torture, is supposedly quick and relatively painless. Creeps me out, though! :)

[leesa]

61. I suppose. And they do like child sex, so....I guess they will do.

[roguevalley]

37. BWAHAHA! I remember when they hated JFK because of Papism.

Isn't this just rich? I want a pagan on the supremes.

[JDPriestly]

42. How many of them attended public school K-12.

It is unconstitutional to apply a religious test. But, most Americans rely on public schools to educate their children. I would like to know how many of the members of the Supreme Court went to ordinary public school K-12. This is a very important issue. The proliferation of private schools, especially private religious schools including but not limited to Catholic schools, is causing an increased sectarianism in this country. That is bad news. We've seen what that has done in other countries -- led to animosity and bloodshed, that's what it has done. This issue needs to be addressed.

In addition, I question whether the high number of private school graduates on the court doesn't make it overly elitist. I am not saying this is a new problem. I just feel we should look at this.

[FrankX]

52. Bill Clinton attended a Catholic University for

a period of time. He seemed to think it not a threat. He graduated from Georgetown University, a Jesuit institution.

[JDPriestly]

54. I'm not troubled by so many attending private universities.

It's private K-12 that concerns me. How many of the Supreme Court justices went to public school K-12? That is my question.

[JDPriestly]

55. It's not the Catholic part I'm concerned about.

I've known all kinds of Catholics. There is as much diversity in that religion as in many others. I'm concerned about public schools and whether the Supreme Court will view them with suspicion if so many of the members of the Court are private school products. Most Americans attend public schools. I believe that the institution of public education is very valuable and important in the U.S., and I do not want to see a Court in which the majority of members do not understand, trust or value public education.

[FrankX]

57. People like Bill Clinton who are beneficiaries of Catholic education

are more likely to be able to bring that quality of education into the public school classroom and raise the standard. I would like to see the the bar on public education raised to the level of Catholic education. Seeking out candidates for the Supreme Court who have been educated only in the public school system would eliminate the most educated in many cases. Raise the bar, don't lower it.

[JDPriestly]

59. I went to a Catholic law school so I have no problem with that.

I have said several times that my concern is that we have people on the Court who went to a public school K-12. It's public K-12 schools that are endangered as private schools acquire more and more rights to tax money and support but do not share the burden of educating the disabled and needy. This is my concern.

[Terran]

46. MORE anti-Catholic bigotry?

And yes, it IS bigotry because you ASSUMING that all these men are incapable of making independent judgments about legal matters without their religion coloring their judgment. This is exactly what JFK ran into. You don't know these people personally, so I suggest you back off. And I'm not Catholic--I'm not even a Christian.

[Zynx]

51. BEWARE! The Catholics are out to get you! They're behind every bush

, every tree, and they're even in your house! They're plotting to overthrow the government and sell the coutry to Catholic Mexico and the rest of Latin America and force your children to become Catholic priests and eventually we will all have to become agents of Rome and Popery. /sarcasm

The Catholic conspiracy posts really make me laugh. They seem like something out of the 17th century.

[emdee]

50. Didn't Republicans make an "issue" out of Kerry's religion? n/t

n/t

[win_in_06]

60. I don't think you'll find a lot of diversity in the high courts of Europe

either though.