If you are a progressive, you are by definition a feminist.

[Zenlitened]

Welcome aboard! :hi:

Feminism n. the policy, practice or advocacy of political, economic, and social equality for women.

http://www.feminist.org/welcome/index.html

[marbuc]

1. You say this like it's a bad thing. nt

[niyad]

2. and this comes as a surprise to anybody?

actually, I am probably considered a radical (in the actual sense of the word, meaning "root")

radical pagan eco-feminist

[Zenlitened]

5. It seeems we (collectively) forget to think in those terms sometimes

Progressivism, IMO, is woven of the same fiber as feminism, and vice versa. A point too often overlooked in a world that seeks to splinter us, divide our power and drain it away.

[mojavekid]

3. Cool!

Best news I've had all day!

[Zenlitened]

6. It is kind of a nice revelation, isn't it?

Just by virtue of your forward-thinking approach to life you're part of a community with roots hundreds of generations deep.

One prone to complain now and then, sure, but capable of summoning great power when needed, an enormous will to get things done. To make the world a better place for all who are in it.

That's the ideal. That's the over-arching goal. And getting there, well... that half the fun, when you have big family of brothers and sisters to help get us there together.

:D

[catmother]

4. i would say that's a correct assumption. n/t

[phusion]

7. ever read bell hooks?

she is an amazing writer and exposed me to feminist social theories, etc.

Good post -- thanks!

[Maat]

8. I agree!

;-)

[Zhade]

9. Cool with me.

But can we maybe get some of the female feminists to stop arguing that they are somehow better than men, or that men are the cause for all the world's ills?

I know it's a minority of them, but it's hypocritical for them to cry "sexist!" and then turn around and be sexist toward men.

(Yes, I'm referencing the thread that was locked, not for its sexism against men, but for the ensuing flamewar.)

[Porcupine]

10. 0K, So what do we call the man-hating folks?

I am so sick of seeing yet another dump on males post. Usually followed by the statement that her son/brother/husband/boyfriend is ok. It's just all of those OTHER men that are evil.

I have two daughters and I am at a loss. I cannot condone the current spoutings of "feminists" any yet I truly believe in protecting their rights.

Help me out here.

[ulysses]

11. relax.

All things considered, we have it pretty good.

[Bunny]

12. Nice, uly!

:hi: How's that darling little boy?

[ulysses]

13. he's doing very well, thanks!

Alert, sleeping longer now at a stretch, and growing like a weed. :D

Thanks, Bunny! :hi:

[Zhade]

14. Yes, we do. But hypocrisy is hypocrisy.

Sexism against men should no more be tolerated than sexism against women.

Thankfully, I am aware not all feminists are as such.

[Nikia]

15. Except that some people do hold prejudices

And in our society, sexism is still considered a "naturual" prejudice that isn't exactly discouraged.
I am all for gender equality and gender freedom. I welcome anyone to feminism that professes these things. I do think that there is still a place for discussing some of these prejudices and their societal effects. Many people are offended by such discussion, but I don't think that we really can have equality until some of those issues are addressed.

[Porcupine]

16. You cannot eliminate prejudice if half the topic is taboo.

The truth is that there are inequalities in the way women and men treat each other. Women face inequalites in access to the work economy (at least the high paying work) and men face inequalities in access to the emotional economy (social interaction, access to their children and access to sex).

One of the largest taboos is the fact that women who are not prostitutes expect to trade sex for assets. This is across the political spectrum. Liberal women do not date guys who are broke any more than conservative women do. Likewise men are not getting their emotional and social needs met in this culture and act out with violence in far greater percentages than comparable cultures.

The taboos prevent honest conversation and realistic planning for solutions. Blaming creates resentment and increases gender hostility. I see too much blaming on these boards for my comfort.

[sandnsea]

17. I always dated broke guys

There weren't any other kind in the 70's. Lazy guys with no ambition who are using you for your money, that's a different story. That's the kind of guy women won't date. And the kind of guy she won't let around the children either, if she happens to have had children before she figured out that he was never going to change.

People who couldn't figure out how to make a marriage work aren't going to do very well at making a divorce work. That isn't sexism, that's human nature.

[Porcupine]

18. Funny, there's no stigma when dating/marrying broke women.....

or women who have no ambition (or ambitions that do not involve the possibility of earning money). I know of lots of local artists that are women. They outnumber the male artists 5 to 1. Many of them don't work or work part time and devote significant time to art. Many are supported by their partners. A man who devotes his time to art in preference to working more is called a slacker, lazy, or a bum.

My ex was furious when I dropped out of college due to health problems related to a mold bloom in our house. I was told how laxy I was. I lost my marraige, my house in a cohousing project that I worked hard to help implement and access to my kids for a year. Three more houses in that project are gutted and vacant now due to mold.

There are many double standards; not all prejudices disadvantage women. All of us are free or none.

[sandnsea]

19. Artists have ambition

I know plenty of male artists who have girlfriends. Some have more money than others. Some work second jobs, some girlfriends are the primary breadwinners. Sorry dude, you just described a lousy relationship, not sexism.

[Hello_Kitty]

21. Sorry

You seem to be implying that women are at fault for men acting out in violence due to us unfairly withholding sex from them if they lack funds. First of all, plenty of poor men can get laid. If a guy is physically attractive and charming, he can be living in his mom's basement and get plenty of ass. If you are out of shape and poorly groomed, you're not going to get a lot of offers for sex. Unless you have a lot of money and even then, don't count on it. The same holds true for women, but I seriously doubt we'll be seeing any sympathy for the plight of unattractive women from you.

In all seriousness though, what disturbs me about a post like this is the underlying assumption that men are entitled to sex from women. No one is entitled to the use of anyone else's body for sexual gratification. You can masturbate. And it's that aggreived sense of entitlement that causes the violence, not the lack of sex.

[fleabert]

20. :hand shoots up: I'm a feminist!

I am also a humanist. I want political, economic, and social equality for everyone. race, gender, religion, country of origin, etc...

BIG TENT!

[MojoXN]

22. I'm a feminist, after a fashion...

But, to play devil's advocate, your logic depends upon the definition of "Progressive" including the support for women's rights. Though I support your contention, it is debatable wheteher anti-feminism and progressivism are mutually exclusive. Just some food for proverbial thought.

MojoXN

[tritsofme]

23. I prefer the term egalitarian.

the term "feminism" has been demonized and made ineffective.

[entanglement]

24. Well, the key word in that definition is equality

Most people (minus fundies and freeps) agree with the idea of 'equality' in an abstract sense, but they may have a hard time agreeing about specifics. Part of the problem is that male and female experiences are generally quite different, and a rigid, 'equality' metric may be inadequate. Furthermore, the experiences of different GROUPS of women are drastically different from each other and IMHO this means either (1) only the experiences of a dominant group shapes 'the movement' (2) there is so much disagreement that the very existence of such a unified movement is doubtful.