My wingnut physician brother-in-law

[adigal]

(Cross posted at www.dailykos.com)

My brother-in-law is on his second marriage with my sister-in-law; actually, they are divorced, but live together to raise their daughter. He is older, 73, but in great physical and mental shape, designer clothes, Italian leather shoes, new Lexus every 6 months (no lie.) My sister-in-law is 45. He has two grown sons, and an 8 year old daughter with his ex-wife, my sister-in-law. This sets the stage for the family drama. (My husband is a disabled NYC fireman and I am a teacher.)

Our conversation started as they usually do - I was ranting about the lack of opportunities afforded middle class kids, especially now that Congress is targeting the college loan program to pay for the upper class tax cuts. My wingnut physician brother-in-law proceeded to discuss how he was able to afford to pay for law school for his two much older sons (43 and 41) and he could not see any problem paying to send his 8 year old daughter to "professional school." He said that his sons are now very, very successful and he had no worries about their futures.

I asked him, what about those who want to send their kids to law school, and their kids are really bright, and they can't?

He said, "So? I am not concerned about them. I have to take care of my own."

I said, "The middle class is being destroyed, and the govt doesn't care. You are a doctor, and you must know, people don't even get health care until it it an emergency."

The doctor brother-in-law: Well, they go to the emergency room.

Me: Yes, but it costs us all so much more money then.

The Doctor: I don't care, at least they are not coming into my office, not being able to pay.

I then said: some people cannot even afford to feed themselves, I read "Time" magazine this week and it discussed middle class people who put money away for their retirement and they were raped by the executives of their companies and Congress, who allowed this to happen.

The doctor: I don't want to discuss politics with you, but that is tough on them. They should have invested better.

I was truly stunned. I asked him if he were serious, and he said he was dead serious. I then asked him if he would care if the family next door to him did not have enough to eat.

The Doctor: No. I would not care. Why should I care?? They should have taken care of themselves.

At this point, my sister-in-law finally chimed in and said, "Your sons have no idea what it is to really work for anything, you gave them everything."

The doctor: That's right, I did, because I could.

I always knew he was a prick, but his honesty stunned me. I told him that if we didn't have an equitable society, his sons and daughter would eventually pay, no matter how successful they were. I told him he was uncaring because he told me he would not care if his neighbor was starving, and then he got mad about being called uncaring. Well, what the hell do you want me to call it then??? I asked. If you don't care, you are uncaring. And if you don't care that much of our society is hurting, then you are a typical republican, you are just more honest than most.

This, friends, is the republican party of today. There are millions of voters we can influence with this true message: the republican party of today is the "I've got mine, now FUCK YOU party." And they only make up perhaps 2% of the electorate. Add another 20% of wingnuts, and they will never have another majority in our lifetimes if we are successful at getting the true message of the republican party out to the masses.

On a happy note, the only time I saw any doubt in my wingnut brother-in-law's eyes was when I told him I, an ex-republican hardass (he had just made fun of liberals, saying they were too wimpy to be effectual) was going to work very hard to even the playing field. I was going to work for people who would make him pay taxes again, and that I talked to people all of the time, and there were a lot more of us than there were of them.

The best was when I told him that if he continued to starve Americans, the gate on his community was not tall enough to keep out the hungry, angry people. The flicker of fear in his eyes was worth all of my aggravation.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Ah.. the aristocracy are always afraid of the people with the torches and

the guillotines.

Nice job getting to him on that point. *high five*

[belle]

2. "So? I am not concerned about them. I have to take care of my own."

Sums it up. There's no real talking to someone like that, it seems to me; you can argue logic with someone whose heart is in the right place but has a different ideology, but you can't create empathy where there isn't any. glad to see at least something got through, even if it's fear.

sorry, dude: in-laws can suck, I know...

[adigal]

5. Yeah, you're right, which is why I finally told him

that I am not interested in turning his 2%, I want to convince the 30% who voted for Bush out of fear or ignorance so that the repubs never, ever get another majority in Congress.

They are so, so disingeuous, pretending to be something normal humans are not.

[kestrel91316]

21. Hell, we're saving the guillotines JUST FOR his 2%.

[Silent3]

28. It's more than that 2% who think like that...

There are, it turns out, an awful lot of people who think they're higher up along the economic ladder than they really are, and further many who, even if they don't think they're up there yet, vote as if they're sure they'll be up there someday. These people worry more about the taxation of future imaginary wealth than they do about their current, often difficult, financial situations.

There was a great episode of "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" where someone was trying to organize a group of Ferengi employees (the Ferengi are an alien race with a mercilessly mercantile culture) to form a union and strike for better working conditions. (You have to understand that proposing a union to Ferengi was almost like proposing to a group of vegans that they open a meat packing plant.)

They employees knew they were being exploited, but their reaction was "Ferengi workers don't want to stop the exploitation, they want to become the exploiters!"

[Shallah Kali]

34. There are those with delusions of millionairehood who vote GOP

They think all those lovely tax breaks will apply to them. Then there are those who are more than happy to let others suffer because they aren't the ones hurting. And there are those who are so terrified that they might loose one penny to an unworthy welfare recipient they want to throw the whole thing away rather than make sure people who really need are the ones getting it. Never mind the corporate welfare queens are much more real.

[Maat]

3. Good post.

It reflects how out-of-touch and mean people can be. Oh, and short-sighted and irresponsible and hateful.

[BattyDem]

4. I find it very disturbing that a doctor is that uncaring.

:-(

[adigal]

6. Me, too

and trust me, I made a big point on that.

[leanin_green]

61. Don't fall into the trap of preconceived notions about doctors.

Just because a person chooses to become a doctor isn't a guarantee about them having altruistic motives. In our culture the doctor, lawyer and such are considered the ultimate badge of success. I worked in medicine for fifteen years around many doctors and I can tell you that the majority are of the ilk that only seek to succeed financially. I say the majority, not all.

[babylonsister]

7. Atigal, you rock!

Thanks for making him think!

This line from you caught my eye as well:
"I asked him, what about those who want to send their kids to law school, and their kids are really bright, and they can't?
He said, "So? I am not concerned about them. I have to take care of my own.""
My first thought was Fitz; he came from lean beginnings and may now be going after those that think their shit doesn't stink. Payback or decency-I bet the latter.

[adigal]

10. Yeah, I thought about Fitz too

and if he would be able to work his way through college nowadays.

It was a lot easier when I went, in the early 80s. My college, with room and board, cost $3000. I was able to make that in the summer.

[bloom]

19. Fitz

The trouble is - for the "haves" - that is exactly a reason to just have privileged people in positions like that. So they can protect each other.

Someone from more meager means sees things differently.

You go letting people like that get loans/aid then you open the door to more accountability.

[FreedomAngel82]

8. People like this so-called doctor disgust me

Makes me want to barf. It's so disgusting this mentality. I've tried talking to other wingnuts about this but they don't give a damn. They talk just like this guy. They should've done this or that. I tell them they should go and quit their job and try to get that same job back and see if they can do it and all on their own.

[adigal]

12. They think all of their success is due to their talent

rather than Dad having been friends with the president of the company.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. They also fail to acknowledge that it is a lot harder in today's economy

to work hard and accomplish what we could just a decade ago.

I worked my way through college too. I also had student loans which were forgiven when I taught school. But when I went to college in the 70s, my tuition at a state university was only $200 a semester. And the loan program I benefited from no longer exists.

Cars were $1995 brand new (anyone else remember those Pinto commercials?) and gas was $1.00 a gallon. My parents' house payment was $106 a month. Minimum wage was under $2.00 an hour. What is it now? $5 ? Cars would now have to be $5000 and my tuition $500 a semester for minimum wage to have kept up with inflation.

Health insurance was provided by most employers for free. I worked part time at KMart and was offered health insurance. My parents' health insurance paid for 100% of most of our health care. I can still remember in the 80s when my dad was shocked that he had to pay part of the cost of his eyeglasses for the first time.

I had a baby in 1978. Our hospital bill was $1000. We had no health insurance and the hospital let us pay $30 a month until the bill was paid. I could feed my family for $25 a week in groceries and we ate well.

If anyone really needed a job, there were steel mills and auto assembly line jobs that paid reasonably well. Today in my city, there are no more steel mills and most of the auto plants have shut down.

We thought we were poor but compared to young families today, we were wealthy.

Too bad these selfish asshole conservatives don't acknowledge that it is a lot harder today to work hard and make a good life for yourself and your family.

[zanne]

53. And luck had nothing to do with it.....nt

[yorkiemommie1]

9. he must have treated only people of his own class ?

the country club set?

i suppose he would step over anyone having a heart attack unless they paid him on the spot.

you did a great job and i hope you don't have to see him too often!

[adigal]

11. I try to avoid this pri*k, but I love my sister-in-law. n/t

[cspanlovr]

13. I've got mine, so fuck you...

...has been the message of the republican party since Reagan. I hear this attitude all the time.

[WiltedFlowerChild]

14. I call them...

The Hurrah for Me, the Hell with Everyone Else party.

[babylonsister]

18. Remember the blivet? The have and the have mores? cspanlovr,

welcome to DU!:toast:

[CoffeeCat]

15. I find this refreshing....

...because, at least, I wasn't the only one subjected to the endless, psychopathic ramblings of these wingnuts.

I grew up in a horrendously dysfunctional family headed by a malignant narcissist, who just happened to be a rightwingnutjob.

Coincidentally, one of my BILs was a surgeon...also a malignant narcissist and a rightwingnutjob--much like your BIL.

On the surface, my father was just another conservative Republican. Behind the scenes, it was mental illness. He would make fun of the homeless, of people who had disabilities and he often complained that teachers were paid too much.

He was against the Americans With Disabilities Act because the Act required him to make changes to the physical structure of his business. He was very angry that the ADA cut into his profits.

He once told me, "You know black people really are inferior. I hired a black person once, and she was just terrible. It's not my fault they are the way they are."

The hell I endured growing up in a house like this. I was just like my father until I went to very liberal Big Ten University. I learned that gay people were not freaks and I had African American professors who were great role models...incredibly intelligent and gifted. I learned that my father was wrong and I told him so. He never missed a chance to berate me, "Hey! I think I hear a homeless person scratching at the window. Why don't you bring them out a plate of food...you're into that, right?"

It's been three years since I've had any contact with the bigoted, pathological, elitist, third-class thugs in my family.

Thank God I escaped!

[MisterP]

16. the same 20-27% who consistently demand Muslims be made to

carry passes and register with the feds and have every move monitored. Coulter-Apartheid fiends.

[occuserpens]

17. He is no wingnut

His logic is 100% sound! Now he has everything he wants and he really has no reasons to care, but his children most certainly do.

The correct term for "I don't care" is alienation, he is alienated from those who are not so lucky. The trick is, GOP propaganda is still effective and turkeys vote for Christmas. But, sooner or later, the spell will be broken, and alienation will become mutual. Let us wait and see what will happen then.

In fact, vote-rigging and dem meltdown are the 1st signs that the spell is already thinning. So, to go on as they do, they cannot afford to maintain the multi-party system any longer.

[Jim Sagle]

27. Turkeys vote for Christmas? Freeper turkeys vote for Thanksgiving!

[BrotherBuzz]

20. I thought Frank Burns died

Great post!

[occuserpens]

22. Frank

http://tvsothertenpercent.tripod.com/mash/frank.html

Frank: What I don't understand is why do people take an instant dislike to me?
Trapper: It saves time, Frank.

Frank: I have never cared, and at this point I don't care twice as much as I never cared before!

A Korean on Frank: I don't know his name. He had what we call in Korea a real fertilizer face.

Frank: I wouldn't mind being a doctor if I didn't have to be around sick people.

Frank on his wife: She worships the ground I walk on!
Potter: Who told you that?
Frank: My mother.

[EFerrari]

23. "It saves time"

:rofl:

[BrotherBuzz]

29. There are some real nuggets at that site, Thanks

Frank: I think you will all agree that by trying to introduce more discipline, more order, I have hopefully made this a more enjoyable war for all of us. Leadership is a lonely business. Your Napoleons, your Kaisers, your Attilas the Hun, were alone there in the front office as I have been this week. I have thought of you. I know you have thought of me - but some of the notes in the suggestion box were really below the belt! I mean, why drag my mother into this?

[flygal]

36. I was thinking Montgomery Burns

[adigal]

41. HaHa!! I am going to call him Frank from now on

and not tell him why. It will be our little secret!!

[PowerToThePeople]

24. I am gonna make a t-shirt

I vote Republican
I've got mine
So FUCK YOU!!!


This is sooo great. I love the truth.

[dsc]

25. ask him how well his sons will do

when there are no middle class people able to pay for lawyers.

[PowerToThePeople]

26. Corporations will start sueing the general populace

They will eventually have patent rights for every single thing/idea in existance. You will have to pay them in order to exist.

Heck, almost there now.

[napi21]

31. You just gave me a GREAT idea!!!!!

What if we got a lot of bumper stickers made up that said "I've got mine...FUCK YOU!" and anonyously slapped them on all the cars with Shrub, GOP etc stickers on them?

Gee, we could put them on the fence at the gated communities, and lots of places we're sure are run by pubs.

What do ya think?

[undergroundpanther]

69. I LIKE it

However I'd tie it to the owner as in
"I'm a I got mine so Fuck you Republican"

[BiggJawn]

32. After the Revolution....

Maybe I can get his daughter as my "scullery maid".
And maybe his sons will give good sport squealing for their lives before they get their Aristocrat heads seperated from their flabby bodies.

"... the gate on his community was not tall enough to keep out the hungry, angry people."

Fuckin' A!

You can tell him that if you wish.

[catmother]

33. just reading your post has made my heart

beat faster and i'm sure my blood pressure is up. what a fucking prick. well i always say "what goes around comes around" if not in this life then in the next.

i have a really hard time understanding people like your brother in law. how could you not care about your neighbor starving?

my husband and i have worked our way up and even though i don't work anymore, we're doing well (but he does worry about losing his job to outsourcing) and of course, everyone loves a tax cut, but not at the expense of cutting programs for the poor and disadvantaged. and that's what these fucking repubs do and most of them consider themselves to be good christians.

i don't understand how we can pay to rebuild iraq, but we have to have cuts to rebuild our own country because of the hurricanes. i don't understand why in the most powerful country in the world, we have children going to bed hungry, we have people without health care, we have people who have to chose between filling their prescriptions or eating and now with the price of gas people will be freezing to death in their own homes.

i'm angry. i'm really angry. and i feel helpless. and it's saturday night. it's 10:15 -- i should be in bed but i can't relax after hearing your story.

i'm going to stop. i could go on and on, but that's not going to help. we have to take back this country. i just hope it's not too late.

[adigal]

42. I'm sorry to get you so upset with my post

I just sat there, listening to him, and wondering if my ears were deceiving me. Stunning, I know. We really do have a whole class of people who missed the lessons of childhood. The funny (ironic??) part of this is that he is an Ob/Gyn so the only part of women he usually deals with is a part that does not answer back, so I really piss him off. He is a nutjob, so he does not show it, but I can tell.

So if it makes you feel better, I ruined his night's sleep too.

[leesa]

55. OB/gyn's lose a lot of business as health care collapses and the middle.

class disappears. Perhaps he will be forced to retire if his clinic cannot make ends meet...although somehow I doubt he gets between the legs of too many middle class women, unless it's for sport.

[PassingFair]

71. So, if it's not too personal....

why did your S/I/L MARRY an SOB who is TWICE her age?

[strategery blunder]

35. My uncle is like that too

And he wants to be my "role model" because I didn't have a "father figure" growing up.:eyes::eyes::eyes:

He's a physical therapist, btw. He'll wine and dine me when I'm in town, but to hell with anyone outside his immediate family.:puke:

[alittlelark]

37. The city I live in is #1 in expensive real estate in the nation

CNN...



But I have my pitchfork sharpened for ppl like you B-I-L.

[texpatriot2004]

38. Your BIL & his ilk would kill the system that enabled them to get

where they are now. People like your BIL don't mind destroying the system that put them in the position that they are now in. IOW he was able to reach the success he has because of the American system that he and his friends now care nothing for.

[roguevalley]

39. tell me where he lives and I'll go kick his ass. Hugs to you, sweetie.

[depakid]

40. A doc with no empathy.

Yikes!

Just goes to show that just because a person is skilled in one area, doesn't mean they have any idea about what's going on in others.

I imagine Tom Coburm of Oklahoma's like that as well.

[Jackpine Radical]

52. It's pretty damn common among MD's.

I remember interviewing 20 years ago for a faculty job in a med school. At one point the dean went into this rant about how uncaring and mercenary the med students were.

[knitter4democracy]

65. It depends on what they go into.

I've found that those in primary care usually are more caring (although Ob/Gyns can be real pieces of work--maybe it's all the surgery), and surgeons and specialists who don't deal as much with patients just aren't.

Of course, I'm biased. My hubby's an internist. ;)

[quaoar]

43. Does your brother-in-law go to church?

Does he pretend to be a Christian?

Ask him whether greed, selfishness and indifference to the needs of others are the keys to the Kingdom.

Ask him whether he thinks Jesus was a sucker and a fool because he cared for the sick and the despised.

Ask him why he attends church services when he ignores everything that Jesus preached.

Has anyone ever gone out of their way to help him? Did he ever have to rely on the help of a stranger because his car broke down, to fix a flat tire perhaps? Why didn't he prepare better for such an occurrence by learning how a change a tire, have a spare ready?

If he claims he has never had to rely on others for anything, he's a fool and a liar. Plenty of people made sacrifices throughout his life to make his life better:

The teachers who taught him in school could have pursued more lucrative careers, but they chose lower-paying teaching jobs and he benefitted from that. Someone probably volunteered to be his Little league coach, his Scoutmaster. Etc., etc.

I guess he thinks they were all suckers.

[azygous]

44. The Fundamentalist Christian angle

It's been my observation that, yes there are those who are pathalogically selfish and uncaring, but for the many more conservatives who think this way, they justify ignoring the plight of the poor and the struggling among us by their religious beliefs. Most fundies believe that their wealth and privilege is a sign from their god that they are living a virtuous life, and the poor people and struggling middle classes need only examine how their sinful ways are preventing "god" from showering riches upon them also. It's far easier to ignore people who are in need by rationalizing that god made them that way, not because of your selfishness, but because they are sinners and are getting their just punishment. It takes all guilt off the table and they are able to live with themselves just fine. It may be the biggest attraction conservatives have to fundamentalism religion.

[elehhhhna]

45. the mere fact he has an 8 y/o says maybe he's not too foreward-thinking

when it comes to the big stuff.

[belle]

60. The truly creepy thing is, he may not really give a damn about his kids,

either.

If he does, there's some hope: if you can care about somebody, ANYbody, you can learn to extend it to others. not saying you WILL, but the capacity is there.

if he's just doing the family thing because that's what he's supposed to do, though...well, feel bad for the kids and hope they take after their mom.

[bleedingheart]

46. My Born Again Christian Sister In Law basically feels the same way

goes to church...blathers about god..but hasn't an empathetic bone in her body...

[Canuckistanian]

47. He sounds like an Ayn Randian

But most people grow out of that stage after the first years of college.
Most conservatives at least recognize that SOME attention must be paid to the the poor and underprivileged, even if for good public relations.

This prick can't even understand that he's ultimately hurting himself, much less others.

Do us a favor, print up your post and all of our responses and present it to him. Let's see what his reaction would be.

[MojoXN]

48. Well, look on the bright side...

At least he's an honest prick... :evilgrin:

Seriously, though, you'd think that a doctor, seeing suffering day in and day out, would be a LITTLE more compassionate. Just goes to show you, stereotypes are almost ALWAYS wrong.

MojoXN

[misternormal]

49. The "Well-to-do" have not studied history...

...or have forgotten that the disappearance of a middle class was one of the factors that spawned both the french and bolshevik revolutions. I am sure that all of <i>us</i> know how that turned out for the "nobility".

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

50. There really is no arguing with someone like this, because they have

laid all their cards on the table. "I'm a heartless bastard, and couldn't care about anyone else."

I do think it's amusing that the guy specifically said he doesn't care about anyone else, but objected to being painted as "uncaring." :rofl:

Medicine is filled with people like this. Think of it as a big group of people with six figure incomes, many with multiples of six figures. The group tends to have the same politics as most others in that income bracket, with perhaps a higher percentage of people who are liberal than the nonphysician sample, because some do have significant humanitarian motives.

[knitter4democracy]

51. What a dumbass.

:eyes:

I know a couple of doctors like that (oddly enough, they were in residency with my hubby and didn't have family paying their way), and they just piss me off. They honestly can't see how their own ideas and policies actually hurt themselves in the long run. They really think that they got to where they are through their own talents and hard work (yes, that was a major part, but so was being born male and privileged enough to get the chance). Honestly. :eyes:

Thank God I only know a couple like that. All the other docs I know (Hubby's one, so we know quite a few) aren't that stupidly self-centered. Of course, I don't know very many surgeons, so my sample may be too small. ;)

[wryter2000]

54. Jesus

I work with doctors, and none of the ones I know would be so callous about human suffering.

[Vickers]

56. So, your sanctimonious BIL is living in sin?

Nice. :eyes:

[Chalco]

57. Wilkerson(Powell's #2) said on radio the other day:

that his father was a centrist and believed the following: "the left will rob you blink but the right will kill you."

To wit a caller said that he wanted to amend Wilkerson's father's statement to: "the left will rob you blind, but the right will also rob you blind, steal your pensions, destroy health care, turn bankrupcy rules on their head and kill you."

[glitch]

58. Beautiful! Also though, next time tell him the gates on his community can

be locked from the outside so he'd better stock up on food and water.
That freaks them.

[adigal]

59. I never thought of it that way

We can lock the gates from the outside and not let their 75K cars out of the gates.

[Nothing Without Hope]

62. Easy to see where HE would be in these two great CARTOONS:

[Nothing Without Hope]

63. Would appreciate the permalink to your dKos cross-post

so I can read the replies there too.

[markus]

64. This is why Dems must become the "You've stolen ours......

and we're coming to take it back" party.

I think the two open choices are class war and religious war. I think we need to start the one we can win (the first) before we lose the latter.

[joefree1]

66. Hence the saying ...

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
John Kenneth Galbraith (1908 - )

Your brother is refreshingly honest. And I would refuse to be around him for purely selfish reasons, his karmic pay back is gonna be a bitch.

[undergroundpanther]

67. If they do ot care

Than I don't care about THEM.

Let them be dragged through the streets robbed and their kids be made pariahs than. This I got mine fuck you bullshit is NOT why we have a society and if these rich republican pricks refuse to care I say lets take what they got and make them do the work for US. They do not deserve theirs if they do not care.Caring for others is a prerequisite for a culture that functions for all it's members and a society that recognizes the human condition effects all of us is one worth being part of. If the suit thugs want to hoard the fruits of OUR civilization without giving anything back,not even compassion than FUCK THE RICH REPUBLICAN PRICKS..and if they take too much and try to abuse people and blame them for INEQUALITIES the rich created and people die than they deserve all the fear and shame and whatever may happen these detestable assholes got coming.They made their luxuriant beds let them DIE in it than...

[Ksec]

68. Some people just dont give a fk

Like your BIL. What can ya do? These idiots dont care. Plain and simple. Dont waste your energy or your money on Scrooge. His own attitude is all you need to realize hes gonna get his. They always do. Ive seen it a thousand times.

[Alcibiades]

70. Rousseau on empathy

Rousseau claimed that sympathy was a fundamental human emotion, but that it had one drawback: in order to feel sympathy, one must be able to put oneself in the shoes of someone else who is suffering.

He's got everything so under control that he has effectively insulated himself from every contingency. He has conjured up a world wherein everything is in his control and he can manage to lead his life in a completely risk-free fashion. It sounds as though Dr. Frank thinks he can control fate. Maybe he can, but I doubt it. Life has a way of biting everyone in the ass.

[Time for change]

72. Very interesting and instructive conversation

Can't say I've ever had a conversation quite like that. Sounds like this might disrupt some family relationships -- but probably all for the better.