Some honest soul-searching on the left concerning the election fraud issue

[Talismom]

As presented on Common Dreams.org:
Published on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 by the Free Press (Columbus, Ohio)
Why Can't the Left Face the Stolen Elections of 2004 & 2008?
by Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman

If some of its key publications are any indicator, much of the American left seems unable to face the reality that the election of 2004 was stolen. So in all likelihood, unless something radical is done, 2008 will be too.

Misguided and misinformed articles in both TomPaine.com and Mother Jones Magazine indicate a dangerous inability to face the reality that these stolen elections mean nothing less than the death of what's left of American democracy, and the permanent enthronement of the Rovian GOP.

As investigative reporters based in Columbus, Ohio, we witnessed first-hand, up close and personal, exactly how the 2004 election was stolen, and how it will most likely be done in 2008. In the precinct in which Harvey Wasserman grew up, and in the one where Bob Fitrakis now lives, we saw the well-funded, profoundly cynical and deadly effective mechanisms by which the Bush-Cheney-Rove-Blackwell GOP machine switched a victory for John Kerry to an easily-repeatable defeat for democracy.

That Kerry and the spineless Ohio and national Democratic Parties have been complicit is a crucial part of the problem much of the left also seems unwilling to face. But if you live in Franklin County, Ohio, and watch the Republican and Democratic Parties run joint pickets against progressive candidate, and cut backroom deals allowing incumbents of either party run unopposed, you may miss the full scope of the disaster.

(snip)

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1018-22.htm

This opinion piece goes on to warn that until we all come to terms with the reality of the election fraud of 2004, we are going to be condemned to being ruled by the likes of Jeb Bush.

As one who helped to get out the vote in Ohio with ACT--a major effort as far as time, money, family sacrifices--my reaction was to shiver with fear and loathing! The election fraud was obvious to anyone there willing to see. The greatest sucker punches to me, however, were not what the opposition did (that I expected!) rather they came from denial on the part of some of my coworkers and some of the left media afterwords, and the rapid-fire concession by Kerry that I heard in the van going back to NYC the next day!

My hopes for anything remaining that in any way resembles a democracy are fading as time passes and such denial feeds into the continuing corporate/DLC agenda.

[emanymton]

1. Your Saying It Happened, Does Not Make It So.

"Why Can't the Left Face the Stolen Elections of 2004 & 2008?" by Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman may present a side of the issue. Yet even they must conclude that they have no evidence beyond their being there and seeing it happen.

It could be that when it is all said and done, those who have found nothing may have found nothing because there is nothing to be found.

Given that there may have been an election stolen, the burden of proof lays with proving it. So far the lack of evidence leaves too much unproven.


Bush Lied. People Died. Media Cheered.

[Talismom]

2. Have you read the Conyers report? n/t

[OzarkDem]

4. There's considerable evidence of fraud

and irregularities. It wasn't a matter of closing the investigation because there was no evidence, there was.

I believe at least one county prosecutor or grand jury is still investigating problems in Cuyahoga Co.

[Cocoa]

14. the article you posted doesn't mention the Conyers report

does Conyers endorse Fitrakis and Wasserman's report?

[fasttense]

3. Great article. I have had this conversation with some liberals before.

They just don't want to admit that our election process, our democracy, has been so corrupted. They want to live in their naive little world where the one thing this country does right is fair election. But those days are long gone. Until we face up to it, we will have the Rovian repukes turning this country into a piggy bank for the ubber rich, the haves and have mores, to raid.

[Talismom]

5. Thank you fasttense! Your reply made my day! The most

frightening conversations I've had were with the lawyers who went to Ohio the get out the vote and just didn't want to hear that there was any chance of election fraud having taken place. The were so fast to call us conspiracy theorists. The guys on AAR's show morning sedition (a show I like and am listening to now!) were doing the same and it just horrified me!

[fasttense]

20. Glad I could lift your spirits.

I didn't know about the attitude of the lawyers. Interesting. Since they were advising Kerry, is it a wonder he conceded so quickly?

It is a very hard truth to face that a democracy you had so much faith in, is so corrupt.

[karynnj]

9. Many of us who believe that fraud cannot at this point be

proved, do thing that the election process was corrupted. Where we differ is what to do about it.

I think what needs to be done is for people in each state to examine each and every part of the process. For each step - consider what could or has made it not work cleanly and simplely. Then fix things and close all the loop holes. (Part of this would obviously be the need to accurately perform an audit afterwards.

This should have been done after 2000. There is no one person to blame for this not being done after 2000. The head of the DNC (McCauliffe) or Gore spearheading it would have made sense - but neither had that responsibility. The problem is by law the elections are run at the state level. Federal mandates may help, but it might be necessary to fix this in each state.

As to 2004, Kerry (like Gore before him) was the victim not as you portray him a villian. He did what everyone running for President did - put together a platform to run on and spoke (often to 3 + crowds a day) trying to persuade people to vote for him. None of his opponents in the primaries were any more involved than he in trying to clean up the voting process. It was not possible to do both. When he didn't get enough votes cast for him, he conceded - because there was nothing else he could reasonably do.

[texpatriot2004]

6. With the mess going on now, this issue is all the more relevant.

There is enough evidence to show that these results could only have happened by FRAUD. The people who claim to have been "elected" cannot prove that they were and they have the burden of proof...not us.

Americans better snap out of this naive and dangerous denial, they better wake up or we will all lose everything, including our country.

[Talismom]

7. ...if we haven't already tex! n/t

[texpatriot2004]

8. We have and I think others are coming around now.nt

[karynnj]

10. Unfortunately, WE have the burden of proof

and even then it is probably too late. The Constitution doesn't even specify that there be an election. The states choose the representatives to the elctoral college. (By custom there is an election.)

[Talismom]

11. That's so interesting. I never realized that. When are our party's

representatives going to act, in concert, as though they realize that they have to prove the abuse? Or is it more realistic to expect them to just work behind the scenes at getting better than the repukes at stealing elections?

[nvliberal]

12. The "top" bloggers and most liberal talk show hosts are in extreme

denial about the issue as well.

They want to curry favor with the mainstream media so badly, they will spend time on matters that aren't very important instead of this issue.

[jillan]

13. Has anyone read the article in Mother Jones?

I have, and it basically says, that yes there was something rotten in Ohio. You can scream fraud all you want. But it can't be proven.
There are people in Ohio that are Dems trying to prove fraud. But the repugs covered their butts. The only thing that can be taken from Ohio that can be proven was the indiscrepancy in the number of voting machines. And the only answer to that was "oops".

It has almost been a year since the election.
IF fraud could have been PROVEN, don't you think something would have surfaced by now?

I wish so bad that it could be proven, and that we would make history by having a change in the presidency immediately. It's not going to happen. And for that, I understand why Kerry conceded when he did.
And why his attorneys, and others are still working on what happened, while not being able to provide us with anything concrete.

[Boredtodeath]

15. Fraud has been PROVEN in Georgia

But no one cares.

[jillan]

17. Be more specific.

What exactly has been proven? Because if it is concrete, it needs to be known.

[Boredtodeath]

19. Start here

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-gumbel/americas-next-election-n_b_7940.html

Lots of proof there, all linked in the article.

[killbotfactory]

16. If they can't prove their electronic voting machines work...

Then we must assume that they do not. Democracy and Voting should never be "trade secrets".

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

18. You hit the nail on the head.

In addition to vote suppression, dirty tricks, there ARE flaws in the e voting system that create the possibility of stealing thousands of votes at a time.

This possibility does exist.

I have a degree in Computer Science and Engineering myself, and have read some of the Computer Science literature, where it is also taken as a given that the system is easily corruptible.

Add to that the partisanship ownership of voting machine producers, lack of standards, and the likes of SOS's Katherine Harris and Ken Blackwell.

All you really have to say is that detailed evidence or not regarding the stealing of the 04 election, the system as it existed and exists is more than capable of doing so.

And you can be sure that the attempt will be made to do so again and again using these flaws in the system, until the system is secured.

It is only Democracy at stake.