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Bush_Eats_Beef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 05:42 PM
Original message
Tancredo on Bush "Tax Reform"..."Strike three, and his presidency is out"
Tancredo Chides Panel For Middle Class Tax Increase: Slashing Mortgage, Health Care Deductions Penalizes Middle Class, Hurts U.S. Economy

By Congressional Desk
October 14, 2005



http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=2947

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Congressman Tom Tancredo (R-CO) blasted President Bush’s tax reform panel for suggesting slashing home mortgage and employer health care deductions. It was widely reported this morning that the President’s tax advisory panel will make proposals next month to “clearly redistribute” the tax burden from the upper and middle class to lower-income earners.

The advisory panel will make recommendations to the President which he may endorse or reject. “President Bush will once and for all lose the mantle of conservatism if he embraces tax hikes as ‘reform’. The Republican base urges President Bush to stick to fiscal conservatism and reject this panel’s recommendation,” said Tancredo. “Conservatives voted for the President to move the Supreme Court, to reduce the size of government, and to lower taxes. He has disappointed the base on the first two counts. This would be strike three, and his presidency is out.”

The tax advisory panel was charged with, “reform the tax code to make it simpler, fairer, and more pro-growth to benefit all Americans.” Instead of a fundamental reform that would reduce the tax burden or cut compliance costs, the panel has rejected visionary proposals to introduce a national sales tax or flat tax. “Even if the panel’s recommendations are revenue-neutral, reducing the tax code compliance costs would create jobs and make America more competitive. Eliminating the legions of tax lawyers and accountants is a sure-fire way to reduce job outsourcing,” said Tancredo. “It looks like the panel is putting out a list of ‘offsets’ rather than any kind of comprehensive or philosophical reform to the tax system. As usual, Washington's idea of ‘reform’ is anything but.” Home ownership has boomed, enabling many Americans to enter the middle class while saving for the future. At the same time, perhaps the most pressing issue facing U.S. employers is spiraling health care costs. For instance, the head of Starbucks recently projected that the company will spend more on employee health care than it will on coffee beans.

“How will raising taxes on home mortgages and health care grow the economy? How will hiking taxes on mortgages further the President’s vision of an ‘ownership society’? How will increasing the cost of health care create incentives for more Americans to be covered?” asked Tancredo. “The average home price in many parts of Colorado is more than $300,000. If the President’s panel gets its way, a majority of home owners in Colorado would see their taxes go up. This tax increase would be aimed straight at the middle class.”
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Suhprise suhprise suhprise
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bravo. We need more voices like his.
God knows they don't listen to what we have.
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Bush_Eats_Beef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. EXCEPT...
...when he calls the National Sales Tax "visionary" (see my other post).

If Tancredo is TRULY concerned aboout the middle class, calling the NST "visionary" is one big red flag, at least to ME...

The National Retail Federation issued a press release the day Bush's Tax Panel rejected the idea, THANKING THEM for rejecting it:

http://www.nrf.com/content/default.asp?folder=press/release2005&file=nrst-rejected.htm&bhfv=2&bhqs=1

For Immediate Release
Contact: J. Craig Shearman (202) 626-8134
shearmanc@nrf.com

Retailers Welcome Panel's Rejection of National Sales Tax

WASHINGTON, D.C., October 11, 2005 — The National Retail Federation welcomed today’s decision by the President’s Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform to reject proposals to replace the federal income tax system with a controversial National Retail Sales Tax.

“This is a major victory for the American consumers and workers who would have suffered under a national sales tax,” NRF Vice President and Tax Counsel Rachelle Bernstein said. “Consumer spending has been the backbone of the U.S. economy in recent years, and the huge new tax that was proposed would have sent a message to consumers to stop spending. The implications of that would have had devastating results for every job behind every product on the shelf. Our nation’s tax system needs work, but a national sales tax isn’t the answer and we’re glad the Advisory Panel has agreed.”

“The Advisory Panel reached some of the same conclusions that we came to a long time ago,” Bernstein said. “A National Retail Sales Tax would be extremely regressive, it would require astronomically high tax rates and there would be tax evasion like we’ve never seen before. Some people call it the Fair Tax but we call it the Unfair Tax.”

“Now that a National Retail Sales Tax has been rejected, it’s important that the Advisory Panel realize that other consumption taxes are just as bad,” Bernstein said.

The Advisory Panel, established by President Bush in January, heard from a number of economists and tax experts during a series of hearings this spring. The panel is scheduled to submit its recommendations to Treasury Secretary John Snow by November 1, and met today to discuss what options to include in that report.

Chairman Connie Mack said at this morning’s meeting that panel members had come to a consensus that an NRST would not be recommended in the report. Mack said panel members were concerned that the sales tax rate it would take to replace current income tax revenue – estimated by the Treasury Department at 22-27 percent – was too high and would also encourage high levels of tax evasion.


Mack said the panel was also concerned that the NRST would be highly regressive. Even at the 22-27 percent rate, it would triple taxes for the lowest 20 percent of wage earners. High income taxpayers, meanwhile, would pay less because invested and unspent income would escape taxation. Under a “prebate” program intended to ease the impact on low-income families and thereby address the problem of regressivity, a 34-49 percent national sales tax rate would be required, according to the Treasury Department.

Rather than continuing to require income tax returns to determine who is low income, the prebate program would send checks to all taxpayers. That would amount to a $600 billion a year government transfer – an amount larger than the current Social Security program that would require commensurate administrative costs. While the wealthy would see less of their income taxed and low-income families would have their added tax offset by the prebates, middle-income families would have a tax increase.

NRF has led the retail industry’s opposition to a National Retail Sales Tax, taking members of the NRF Board to the White House, meeting with the proposal’s two top supporters – Representatives Tom DeLay, R-Texas, and John Linder, R-Ga. – and educating Congress on the devastating impact the plan would have on the nation’s economy. A study commissioned by NRF in 2000 found that a national sales tax would bring a three-year decline in the economy, a four-year decline in employment and an eight-year decline in consumer spending. The study showed that similar results could be expected if other types of consumption taxes were enacted to replace the current system.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Except for his being an economic moron.
The VAT or NST is no way "neutral." It totally penalizes those who must spend their entire income to simply subsist.

And tax lawyers are NOT responsible for outsourcing. Out of control executive compensation has forced companies to contract for cheaper labor. Knock ten or twenty million off the compensation package of every CEO or CFO and, gosh golly, you can afford to hire well-paid Americans.

A national health plan would also enable American companies to hire American workers. Tying health care to employment is unworkable and outrageous. If you get sick, you lose your job and your insurance? Smart system.

The most helpful thing ANY American government can do is abolish managed care and institute national health. Maybe the Canadians can teach us. They run at a surplus, right? WITH healthcare? Funny how that works.
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Thanks for the informed clarification.
Yum.
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madmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. Tancredo is an idiot: borrowing money for current expenditures
is not fiscally conservative and that has been going on for 5 years under this current administration. They have been "out" already for a long time.
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coda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Yup
Not to mention that a Repulican controlled Congress has been passing all this spending along with DeLay saying "there's no pork left to be cut".
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Bush_Eats_Beef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. Regarding "visionary proposals to introduce a national sales tax"...
From Bruce Bartlett:

"You know, I'm not exactly sure how big the national sales tax is going to have to be, but it's the kind of interesting idea that we ought to explore seriously," Bush said, according to a Reuters report.

August 09, 2004, 8:47 a.m.

A National Sales Tax No Vote: The rates would be vastly higher than what you might suspect.

House Speaker Dennis Hastert created a flurry of excitement in Republican circles the other day when it was reported that he is proposing the abolition of the Internal Revenue Service in his new book. This would be accomplished by eliminating all existing federal taxes and replacing them with a national retail sales tax. There is no indication of what tax rate Speaker Hastert thinks would be necessary to replace all federal revenue. A current proposal by Rep. John Linder (R., Ga.) says that a 23 percent rate would be adequate. But such a low rate can only be sustained by making completely absurd assumptions about what would be taxed. Every serious economist who has ever looked at this question has concluded that a vastly higher rate would in fact be needed.

An unstated assumption is that the 23 percent rate proposed by Linder is comparable to existing state and local sales taxes, where the tax comes on top of the purchase price. Thus, a 5 percent sales tax on a $1 purchase comes to $1.05. But that’s not the way the Linder plan works. He deceptively calculates the rate as if the tax is part of the purchase price. He calls this the tax-inclusive rate. Calculating the rate the normal way people are accustomed to with state and local sales taxes would require a 30 percent tax rate, not 23 percent. When Congress’s Joint Committee on Taxation scored the Linder proposal four years ago it estimated that it would actually require a tax-inclusive rate of 36 percent, not 23 percent, to equal current federal revenues. Calculating the rate in a normal, tax-exclusive manner would mean a 57 percent rate.

Economist Bill Gale of the Brookings Institution notes that supporters of the sales tax assume that there will be no tax evasion under their proposal and that the size of government will not grow, even though they would send a large annual check to every American in order to offset the regressivity of the tax. Making realistic assumptions, Gale estimates that the tax-inclusive rate, comparable to Linder’s proposed 23 percent rate, would actually have to be about 50 percent. A rate comparable to existing sales taxes would be close to 100 percent. And let us not forget that state and local sales taxes would come on top of the federal sales tax, pushing the total rate even higher. Obviously, the federal government is not going to impose tax rates this high, nor would anyone pay them if it did. There would be a massive tax revolt.

From Nancy Pelosi:

http://democraticleader.house.gov/press/releases.cfm?pressReleaseID=701

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
September 23, 2004

Pelosi: ‘National Sales Tax Would be Burden for Middle Class Americans, But Boon for the Wealthy’

Washington, D.C. -- House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi held a news conference in the Capitol this afternoon with Congressmen Charles Rangel of New York, and John Spratt and James Clyburn, both of South Carolina, to denounce a Republican plan for a national sales tax. Below are Pelosi’s remarks and a fact sheet about the proposal:

“Today, we are here to highlight one of the many clear contrasts between Democrats and Republicans: Republicans want to undermine our American values of prosperity and fairness with a new national sales tax of at least 30 percent and as high as 50 percent or more on all goods, including homes and cars.

“A national sales tax would be a burden for middle class Americans, but a boon for the wealthy. Families with children would lose their current tax deductions, and seniors would essentially be taxed twice.

“This proposal is ludicrous and should be dismissed outright. Yet Speaker Hastert wrote about the national sales tax and the flat tax in his new book, saying ‘both of these ideas are worthy of consideration.’ And Majority Leader Tom DeLay is co-sponsoring the bill, and has said: ‘It is high time the debate about the flat tax and a national consumption tax moved out of Washington think tanks and into American living rooms. That's why I have signedon to Congressman John Linder's proposal to scrap the current tax code altogether and replace it with a national sales tax.’

“The Republican plan would make it harder for middleclass families to make ends meet. A national sales tax would undermine the American value of prosperity. For example, cars that cost $20,000 would cost an additional $6,000 under this proposal. Just wait until the car dealers hear about this proposal. Prescription drugs that cost $100 would now cost $130. New homes, insurance premiums, brokerage fees, and gasoline would all be heavily taxed to replace revenue brought in by the current tax system.

“It would wipe out our system of progressive taxation. A national sales tax would undermine the American value of fairness.

“The American people should be aware that the Republicans’ primary tax agenda is a new national sales tax.”

The Republican Plan to Raise Taxes on the Middle Class

All over the country, middle class Americans are being squeezed byRepublican policies that have lost 1.7 million private sector jobs; allowed the price of health care, education, and gas to skyrocket; and created record deficits. Now Republicans are proposing a new national sales tax that would increase taxes for the typical middle class by about 50 percent. Democrats know that approach is wrong. Instead of raising taxes on the middle class, Democrats have pledged to promote prosperity and fairness by enacting middle class tax relief, creating new jobs, and eliminating tax loopholes so all Americans pay their fair share.

GOP SALES TAX HIKES A FAMILY’S TAX BURDEN BY 50 PERCENT

The new GOP national sales tax would replace all personal and corporate income taxes, Social Security, Medicare, and payroll taxes, and gift and estate taxes with a new national sales tax on goods like groceries, clothing, new home sales and apartment rents, and health care services. This new GOP tax would be applied on top of existing state sales taxes. This proposal would increase taxes by about $3,200 a year for 80 percent of taxpayers, and potentially more for some families.

MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES SQUEEZED AGAIN

Families with children. Families with children are hit the hardest, as this proposal would eliminate all the current law tax benefits for these families, including the child tax credit. A middle class family with four children with a combined income of $65,000 would face an increase of more than $5,000 in their tax liability.

New homeowners. The Republican tax hike proposal would eliminate the tax deduction that families get on their home mortgages and apply this new sales percent tax to the cost of a home. If a family buys a new house listed for $150,000, the new tax brings the actual purchase price to $195,000.

Jump in property taxes. The Republican sales tax hike would require states to send an additional $300 billion to the federal government in sales taxes – a tax increase that states would immediately pass on to residents. Arkansas, Delaware, Kentucky, Hawaii, and New Jersey could all see property tax increases higher than 400 percent. The lowest state property tax hike possible – in New Hampshire – would still be more than 70 percent.

Gas and electricity. The average family would pay an additional 60 cents a gallon for gasoline – a new tax that will hit families in rural areas particularly hard. Families with large home heating or cooling bills also will be harmed.

SENIORS FACE NEW TAXES

Beneficiaries pay twice for Social Security and pension benefits. Most Social Security benefits and a portion of pension payments are exempt from income tax. But this proposal requires seniors to pay the new sales tax – meaning that seniors are now being taxed twice for their Social Security, once when they pay the payroll taxes and again when they pay the sales taxes.

Threaten Solvency of the Medicare Trust Fund. Medicare would be required to pay the new sales tax as well, forcing the program into insolvency in five years. If this proposal were enacted, Medicare would run out of funds in 2009.

Undermines pension coverage. The new GOP sales tax hike would reduce the incentives employers currently get for offering their employees a pension plan. The American Academy of Actuaries has concluded that “pension plans would quickly diminish in number and size and gradually disappear” if a consumption tax, such as the national sales tax were enacted as a substitute to the current income tax.

From The National Retail Federation:

http://www.nrf.com/content/default.asp?folder=press/release2005&file=NRST-comments.htm&bhfv=2&bhqs=1

Retailers File Comments Urging Rejection of Consumption Tax

WASHINGTON, D.C., June 13, 2005 - The National Retail Federation today announced that it has filed comments with the President's Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform urging the panel to reject economically risky proposals to replace the nation's income tax system with a consumption tax or to add a new consumption tax on top of existing taxes.

"The United States should not experiment with a brand new tax system that will put our economic future at risk," NRF said. "It is better to engage in substantial reforms of the income tax that are designed to eliminate some of the major complications in the current Internal Revenue Code and stimulate economic growth without causing major economic dislocation."

NRF's remarks came in response to proposals for tax reform that were presented to the Advisory Panel during a series of hearings this spring. The panel asked for public comments on the proposals last month.

NRF on Friday submitted a detailed statement outlining the dangers of various consumption tax proposals. The statement addressed the National Retail Sales Tax proposed by Representative John Linder, R-Va., plans for a Value Added Tax similar to those used in Europe, and other consumption tax proposals.

The NRF statement cited a study commissioned by NRF in 2000 that found that a national sales tax would bring a three-year decline in the economy, a four-year decline in employment and an eight-year decline in consumer spending. The study showed that similar results could be expected if other types of consumption taxes were enacted to replace the current system.

NRF argued that consumption taxes are inherently regressive because low-income families spend virtually their entire incomes while wealthier families have larger percentages of unspent income that would go untaxed.

NRF particularly urged the Advisory Panel to reject proposals to maintain the current tax system while adding a VAT or other new tax that would be used to pay for programs such as Social Security or health care. Doing so would amount to a tax increase rather than tax reform and would provide lawmakers with "a money machine" to finance increases in government spending, NRF said.

From Roth & Co:

http://www.rothcpa.com/archives/cat_tax_reform.php

June 02, 2005
I DON'T THINK HE LIKES THE 'FAIR' TAX

The "Fair Tax," a proposal for a national retail sales tax, has gotten some attention in the tax reform debate. Joseph Thorndike, a columnist for Tax Analysts, isn't quite sold on it:

First, though, we have to sort through an embarrassment of riches: How can we identify the worst quality of a tax that has so many? As numerous critics have pointed out, the Fair Tax would raise too little revenue and prompt too much evasion. Its popularity depends on unreasonable assumptions and misleading descriptions. It would never work as advertised -- a fact that many of its supporters either choose to ignore or secretly celebrate.

But other than that, maybe he likes it.

WHAT IS THE REAL RATE?

Mr. Thorndike points out that the 23% rate touted by Fair Tax supporters is misleading, because it is a "tax inclusive" rate. The 6% tax rate we Polk Countians are accustomed to is "tax exclusive" - it isn't included in the sales tax rate.

Example:

Wally buys a new computer for $1,000, and he pays $60 in sales tax. His "tax exclusive" rate is 6%. His "tax inclusive rate" is 5.66% (60/1060 = 5.66%).

If you compute the "Fair Tax" the way we are used to talking about sales tax rates - tax exclusive - it will apply at a 30% rate. That's a real difference.

Perhaps we are biased, being income tax consultants, but the Fair Tax seems to have some huge practical problems. Two come immediately to mind.

WHEN RATES GET TOO HIGH, PEOPLE CHEAT

Sales taxes are only likely to work if rates are low enough to not interfere with commerce. When combined with state and local taxes, the Fair Tax would burden every trip to Git 'n Go with a 36% or higher surcharge. This is high enough to push many transactions into the E-bay economy.

HIGH SALES TAX RATES THREATEN BUSINESSES THAT COLLECT SALES TAXES

Taxpayers going through their first sales tax audit are astounded at how big the assessments can be. They also know that they aren't as simple as many folks believe. While income taxes are only a problem to the extent your business is profitable, sales taxes apply even when you are losing money, and they apply based on gross receipts - a much larger base than taxable income.

Because sales taxes are computed on a big base, a small error in determining what transactions are subject to tax can lead to a stiff assessment over three years, even at a "low" 6% rate. At a 36% rate, even little errors would be ruinous.

FAIR TAX PROSPECTS?

Mr. Thorndike doesn't think the Fair Tax will survive the tax reform process:

And the winner of this year's prize for Worst Idea in a Serious Public Policy Debate: the Fair Tax. In all likelihood, this plan for a national retail sales tax has already exhausted its 15 minutes of fame. Sometime later this summer, President Bush's commission on federal tax reform will probably put it out of its misery.
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. While Tancredo is a real POS most of the time
at least he is not a Bush kool aid drinker. He will speak out when Bush is fucking up.

Tancredo is totally right about this plan to over burden the middle and working classes while cutting taxes of the top percentiles
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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Tancredo is a POS all of the time.
The only reason he is speaking out against * now is because he is an opportunistic political hack trying to distance himself from a pathetic admin. I hope Tancredo goes down with him.
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Little-Jen Donating Member (38 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. So true.
He reminds me a lot of Pat Buchanan. Anyone else agree?
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Flammable Materials Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. Wait ... we still have a middle class? n/t
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. The enemy of the enemy is still our enemy
but that doesn't mean he can't be useful sometimes!
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dbeach Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. BUT bush is not a consrvative to begin with
created the biggest branch of govt cept the pentagram with Homeland Insecurity..NOW if dat ain't a waste of the tax dollars..then every lil war he starts is rt around the corner

more wars
more tax breaks for the uber rich
less bennies for the middle class ,Vets, SS, disabled ,kids,
college kids.ect...

and bush is not christian either..he speaks to god ..gosd advises him and skips church on sunday HELLO on that combo!!
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
12. coffee beans are more important thant employees? spoken like a
true right winger.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 03:15 AM
Response to Original message
14. NO problem tho with LYING AMERICANS TO THEIR DEATHS.
Typical MFing rightwingnut bastard.
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