The torture issue is key to bringing down the Neocon Cartel.

[rhett o rick]

Harriet Miers and cronyism, the Plaime blame, and DSM are also important, but I think torture is the key issue.

The American public has shown that they can rationalize the need for war. “They” are bad we are good, therefore, war. But torture is more personal. Torture isn’t acceptable by reasonable people. Torture isn’t Christian no matter how you may try to rationalize it.

The Neocon Cartel of Bush/Rove/Cheney support torture. It was never clearer than now as Bush threatens to veto the Iraq funding bill.

It is critical that the wording that passed the Senate also remain in the final bill. Bush should be forced to choose between torture and funding the War.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. I agree

I have been at times placidly non political, but the torture got my attention first. Then Katrina.

If I am any indication (and I think I am, because I am a rather typical Baby Boomer) the torture issues is HUGH.

[Asgaya Dihi]

2. It'll bring down more than that

The torture issue has damaged not just the neocons, but America itself. I first realized how much trouble we were in one night watching Nightline when Ted Koppel said something like "few if any would say never torture, the question is more under what circumstances".

A few years ago I thought we lived in an America where we all knew it was wrong, we judged other nations by the way they treated their prisoners. Then I learned more about our current prison system, about the racial balance and how it got that way, and now we're also a nation that openly tortures.

We've lost so much, and so has the world at large. Any ground we had gained over the decades on human abuse has been threatened or lost, and US leadership on the issue is long gone so gaining any ground back becomes an iffy question.

[rhett o rick]

3. Agree. When people get desperate they will change their values.

The people of Germany proved that in the 1930's. But this Country has no excuse. We aren't desparate.....yet. How can Christians rationalize torture? The main use of torture is to satisfy the sickness of the torturer. May God have mercy on their souls.

[newyawker99]

8. Hi Asgaya Dihi!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[BlackVelvet04]

4. I tend to disagree....

I think bush's low approval numbers are for one reason.....high gas prices.

Americans don't tolerate what hits them in their pocketbooks on a daily basis.

[rhett o rick]

5. Ok gas prices are an issue, but my point is that we shouldn't let this

opportunity get away to point out how clear it is that Bush supports torture. With the Miers and Rove issues so prominent I am afraid this opportunity will slide by. the HoR needs to be told that we want the torture guideline words in the funding bill.

[acmavm]

6. You give the American public way too much credit. So many, such a

huge proportion, have sold their souls to the devil (ironic, isn't it??) by feeling that since it's some brown skinned 'insurgent' who's being tormented and harmed it's no big deal.

The only way to make this a big deal is to RUB THEIR NOSES IN THE PICTURES THAT HAVEN'T BEEN RELEASED.

And that is why they never will be released.

[rhett o rick]

7. If i gave the American public too much credit, then I apologize.

I don't think they deserve very much. 59 million voted to reelect the Neocon Cartel. But torture is an issue that gets attention. Christians readily rationalize war. It's in the Bible, it's impersonal, it's over there. Bombs, tanks, we need it to keep us safe. But ask a Christian* about torture and see them squirm. *Of course I am referring to Christians that support Bush and the War. Lots of Christians don't.