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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 11:39 AM
Original message
* threatened veto on senate vote to put military prisons under rule of law
NYT
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/08/opinion/08sat1.html?th&emc=th

Binding the Hands of Torturers

Published: October 8, 2005

When the Senate voted this week to bring America's chain of military prison camps under the rule of law, President Bush threatened a veto. The White House explained his objections by saying the measure would bind the government's hands. Yes, exactly. The rules would finally bind military prisons to democratic values and the standards of behavior recognized by every other civilized nation. They would bind the government to a code of conduct that will help protect those in the nation's uniform.

The measure would ban "cruel, inhuman or degrading" treatment of prisoners held by the military - which, by the way, is already against American law and a longstanding treaty. Mr. Bush, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales are about the only ones left who want to defend the justness and practical value of the abhorrent practices introduced at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, and then exported to Abu Ghraib. Ninety senators voted for the new law, including 46 Republicans - even Bill Frist, the majority leader, who yanked the measure from the floor last summer.

More than two dozen retired senior military officers endorsed it, including two former chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, John Shalikashvili and Colin Powell. Generals know that turning American servicemen and servicewomen into torturers endangers Americans captured on the battlefield. Senator John McCain, the primary sponsor of the legislation, was among the Americans tortured by North Vietnamese jailers. He said that "Every one of us - every single one of us - knew and took great strength from the belief that we were different from our enemies."

The arguments made by the handful of senators still loyal to Mr. Bush on this issue were sadly comical. Senator Ted Stevens, Republican of Alaska, argued that requiring American troops to follow their own field manual was not practical in the so-called war on terror. This is the central myth behind the administration's policies on prisoners, that the 9/11 attacks required a review of the rules and justified changing them to allow the torture of suspected terrorists. No serious person with experience in this field believes that, only because torture yields worthless information and false confessions.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. NOW he's willing to veto a bill?
Oh, it deprives him of the chance to kill and mame. He'd never veto a bill that doled out billions to his golf buddies.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. it will be his first n/t
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Of course he'd veto this bill! It tells him and Rummy THEY WERE
WRONG!!!! Bet he'd fire aall 90+ Senators for signing it if he could too!

They all know Shrub hates anyone who disagrees with him and his friends!
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. what about the ones...
taking the fall, like lyndie english, in no way do i approve of what she's done, but in the military you better follow orders. that's what i want to know, who gave the orders?
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. There's another rule that is prominent in the military!
The COMMANDER is ALWAYS responsible!

I know for sure, in the Navy, no matter what someone on that ship does, the Captain takes the hit!

What happened to THAT regulation?
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. yes,
and it still should come back to the "Commander in Chief".
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Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
4. This alone proves what * is made of
I believe the term is serial killer.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. "if i only had a brain"
a heart would help too, but that's asking quite alot from shrub.
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. the irony of candy asses like Bush, his AG, et al
What a bunch of lily-livered, candy asses they are. These guys couldn't form a fist, muchless throw one. And yet, they are the ones who reign terror on American values, the values of reasonableness, of process, of consideration, of being the good guys, of setting the good example, not the bad one.

Shame on Bush and all who have allowed this beastly treatment of prisoners and the accused. We are made small and weak when we have to abuse a few hundred prisoners to be all that we can be.

-----
my progressive political cartoon
http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. our military will suffer the consequences n/t
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whosinpower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
11. If Bush actually does veto this bill -
Shall we call him the Torture President? We know he likes to be known as a war president.......
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. well, if the shoe fits n/t
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