We should be shouting that Repubs want to eliminate the mortgage deduction

[Stinky The Clown]

Now, that is probably a bit disingenuous. What is more likely is that some peripheral parts of the tax code may be modified.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1836350

Second home deductions, maybe property tax deductions, that sort of thing, are what is likely to be considered. But the fact is, as they've said, 'it is all on the table.'

Now that Leader Pelosi finally has a throbbing vein on her forehead and is willing to shout such things as 'shame, shame, shame' on the House floor, maybe she - maybe all Dems - should be up there with outrage on her face, telling America that the Republicans want to take away your mortgage deduction.

This is simple.

This is sound bite heaven.

This is made for shouting.

This is made for teevee sham debate on shows like Tweety and George and Wolf and Fat Timmy.

This is a winner for us.

[kanrok]

1. The Republicans want to raise your taxes!

Now there's a twist. By eliminating the mortgage deduction, they are, in effect, raising taxes. Oh, those tax and spend conservatives!

[Booster]

22. Remember when Poppy did away with deductions for credit cards

and car loans? Like father, like son. Taking away deductions equals raising taxes, but people who believe in the Bushitas are just too stupid to figure this out.

[leveymg]

2. I have no problem if they do away with the 2nd home deduction

Anybody who has that much money should have to pay a full share of his or her federal taxes.

This would also help to bring the price of real estate down, as people sold off investment houses.

I'm sure I'm going to get an argument here. Wearing my Nomex undies.

[Catchawave]

5. No argument from me!

I agree totally :hi:

I don't want them touching my home equity interest either. It's the only way most middle class homeowners can pay for a new roof and other home improvements, replace their old clunkermobiles and send their kids to college!

[Stinky The Clown]

11. Investment houses and second homes are different

Second homes are taxed much like first homes. Investment properties are a whole other matter. What's being discussed here is the second home. I have no problem with the second home deduction elimination. It was sham aimed at helping the rich right from its very inception. When you think about it logically, it is, by definition, a tax break for the wealthy. Mostly it is for vacation homes, but guess what also qualifies? That camper in the driveway? If it has toitie and a little propane camp stove. Yup .... second home. That little yacht over there? It has a head and an alcohol stove? Badda bing! Second home.

As to investment properties, I have a whole different view. We are far from rich, but we do okay. We own two investment properties. Over the long haul, real estate does better than the stock market and, unlike the stock market, a 'crash' might mean a davaluation of 5% .... maybe even 15% or 20%. That's a shitload better than a 90% or worse devaluation of your investment in 'high fliers' like ...... oh ...... Enron.

And those two investment properties I have? They will be a large part of my retirement when I cash them in. I am a partner in a (very) small business. Other than social security, I have to fund my own retirement. And I'm not alone. Many other self employed people are in similar straights. No corporate teat to suckle us. We're just regular middle class people trying to be self-sufficient and self-supporting.

I'd like to see real estate investment, up to some reasonable limit, handled and taxed like an IRA. It is, after all, just another equity, like a mutual fund. I pay no tax on what I contribute to my IRA and my Sep-IRA. Why do I need to pay taxes on an even safer investment?

[williesgirl]

21. Don't judge those too quickly, mine is for my disabled daughter

Not every 2nd home is some mansion in the country or on the beach. I couldn't afford the rent for my daughter's townhouse and her doctor really wants her to be able to try things on her own with lots of outside help. So, earlier this year, I bought her a home about 20 minutes from me. I'm on a fixed income and the down payment depleted that. I'm barely making it now and really need the tax deduction to keep afloat.

[Divernan]

3. Hey, the property tax deduction is bigger than mortgage interest deduction

for a LOT of people, especially older Americans who have managed to pay off their mortgages, or have low interest mortgages or home equity loans. I know my property tax deduction is twice as big as my mortgage interest. It's OK with me if the deductions for second home interest and taxes are eliminated - that would be a rare regressive tax on the wealthy.

[MiddleRiverRefugee]

4. For smaller mortgages the deduction has effectively been eliminated

In recent years, the standard deduction has been raised to the point where itemizing deductions yields less of a 'tax cut' than taking the standard. If you're paying $3K of interest a year and your taxes are relatively low, and you don't have much in the way of medical deductions, there's no way you're gonna equal the ($9,000) standard deduction.

[smoogatz]

6. The obvious sound bite is

that the Republicans want to take away your property tax deduction and give it to their rich buddies in the form of Bush's tax cuts for the rich. Grandma can't afford her medicine, but Paris Hilton gets a multi-million dollar tax cut. Why do Republicans hate the middle class?

[smoogatz]

7. Kick and rec n/t

[Neil Lisst]

8. Damn straight!! I like your thinking, Husb2Sparkly!!

Damn straight.

We should be all over this like white on rice. Where is the bellowing NO from our side?

Leadership is finding a riot and getting in front of it. Sometimes, you have to start said riot (metaphorically speaking) by jumping on the issue before the other side gets a chance to be the subduer of it.

Old man Temple used to say "son, when you get them down, keep puttin' it to 'em."

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my progressive political cartoon
http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst

[I Have A Dream]

9. RECOMMENDED! n/t

[salin]

10. GOP want to take away your health insurance!

Among the proposals being floated by this panel - in the name of "simplification and cutting out loopholes" - they want to end all tax relief for employers who provide health insurance to employees.

Cut out the tax - most employers will stop providing insurance.

[blondeatlast]

23. I'm shocked at how few are aware of this. If they pull this little stunt,

we can easily make a federal health care program a winning issue.

I'd very much hate to see it come to this, though. I suspect some corporations are chomping at the bit for this, though.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. Fight the other cuts first. Mortgage deduction so sacrosanct it's safe.

[Stinky The Clown]

15. I agree ..... but ..... this is a good issue to use for public consumption

You're likely right. The deduction is probably safe, although the peripheral deductions may not be.

The whole purpose here is to take an issue **they** put out there and use it to our own advantage.

We're smart. We can talk about this at the same time we work on other things. This issue hits ***every** part of the country. It is a pocketbook issue. It is personal. It is little guy vs 'big gub'mint'.

If nothing else, it plants another seed of doubt that harms them and favors us.

This is ***exactly*** the kind of thing we should be talking about.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

16. Save ANWAR, NPR & parks first. Talk mortgages later or together.

[Stinky The Clown]

18. You can't be serious????????

I'm not saying those issues are unimportant, but they simply do NOT play on Main Street.

Mortgages do.

And it is difficult to engage in discussion with 'title only' posts.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

19. Read what I wrote.

I said one option would be to talk about those in conjunction with the mortgage deduction.

If you want to save ANWAR, NPR and national parks you are going to have to talk about them at some point. If you "save" the safe mortgage deduction first then "Main Street" will say "we kept the right deductions, now cut the stuff we don't need."

[blondeatlast]

24. You want Joe Six-Pack to notice, you hit him where he (padon) lives.

Get his attention first, then sell him on the accessories.

Think like a car dealer...

[texanshatingbush]

13. ....but let's make sure the sound bites say Truth, always !

I think we Democrats need to do a much better job, as you have suggested, of analyzing the ultimate impact of proposals floated by the Rethugs, and then broadcasting far and wide the negative impacts, and staying "on message" about those impacts. One of the "strengths" of the Rethugs has been the "staying on message" thing: state often enough and loudly enough that "black is white and white is black" (or that Saddam Hussein was part of Al Qaida's attack on the twin towers, or that the Iraqis had WMD, etc), and eventually a majority of sheeple will believe it.

That said, however, I would like to see the Democrats scrupulously ensuring that the soundbites about which they stay on message are Whole Truths, and pass the bulletin board test of Whole Truth as the common man/woman would perceive "Whole Truth" (eg., you place the statement on a public bulletin board, and passersby who read it will nod their heads in agreement because they recognize it as Whole Truth). Avoid this half-truth stuff of which we have seen too much in the political arena. Perhaps we could use FactCheck.org as our yardstick of Whole Truth. The Dems could revolutionize politics by taking the high ground and creating a new paradigm for 21st century leadership. If we really want to ensure that each person's vote counts (after eliminating the Diebold problem), then we have to ensure that voters know the Whole Truth.

If we don't do SOMETHING to change the balance of the current standoff in American politics, I fear we will become a Fascist state, or a state torn asunder by class conflicts.

[Stinky The Clown]

14. Stating that they want to eliminate the mortgage deduction is, right now

the truth. They have stated clearly that 'everything is on the table'.

[Neil Lisst]

17. It's the Right doing Wrong again

The right doesn't want to fund health care, so they want to pit it against the mortgage deduction.

"Well, we can't have both," they will begin to say. Then the public will rise up for the mortgage, and good Pub leaders will "save" the deduction in 2006, oh, about September.

-----
my progressive political cartoon
http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst

[robcon]

20. I think the mortgage deduction should be eliminated.

The tax system should not discriminate between renters and owners.