A herd of elephants that need facing and feeding

[nadinbrzezinski]

First off today I finally got convinced, THEY ARE readying DU... that said, this essay will be sent to the DNC...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1831811&mesg_id=1831811

Now the elephant are baying and they want to come out. These are the series of elephants in the room that need to be recognized by all and then we can have some solutions. Speaking of elephants, they stink.

1.- BBV and election rigging, yes virginia elections are rigged in the US in ways that not even the Democratic machine in Chicago (Daley machine) or the Nixon Boys in California ever thought possible. This goes well beyond stuffing boxes and there is no evidence. Like many of you I had to believe in 20004 that the Democrats had a plan, they don't, they don't outside of the Black Caucus, who are the only ones capable at a psychological level of admitting Houston we have a problem. So the first step for the Party is to recognize this is not a myth, and we all need (and many of us have) to get involved at the local level. Unfortunately the fixes to this are national and until we recognize this and something is done at the Federal Level, well them boys will continue to have fun.

What needs to be done are a series of legislative measures to deal with this.

Secretaries of state cannot be at the same time chairmans for any campaign... as tempting as it may be. In fact this should become a non political office

All software most be open source Lynux type and not corporate owned

The companies who have helped cement the rigging most forever more be forbidding from making the equipment, let alone selling it.

The GEMS database is flawed.

Oh and the reason why the boys in DC have not recognized these problems? Quite honestly the implications are so huge they don't want to... they can't.

2.- GOTV efforts and voter education. Why have I pointed to that essay from the DLC? Apparently getting voters to the booths will not make a ny tinker damn of difference... ok.. if they say so, it must be true... now these are the same folks who have brought us the amazing success of a lurch to the right were we are winning every year and in every election :sarcasm:

Now they do have a small point... we, as a party, stink at voter education. We have to learn how to talk to the American people. An hour speech is not going to move most, so the two word culture needs to be developed. Ask Jill and joe six pack what the pukes stand for, and they will give you a litany of one liners. Now ask them what do democrats stand for? There will be this nice glazed look in their eyes. Now the Republicans SPEND money on this, and in this sense we must do the same... and test our two word culture responses (They may be doing it, culture of corruption... but that is defining the other side... thing of one liners to define us)

3.- This is a very uncomfortable elephant in the room, he stinks truly... but there are some in the party, you know who they are, who want to drive progressives out. We are the problem. This is why you are now seeing talks of third parties and the base is truly unhappy...

That has to stop... progressives are not the problem... the people in charge who have not delivered are the problem... and they are playing game of finding a victim for their failures. This is the most diplomatic way to put it, but if they keep this up, the party will split... not now, not next year, but it will.

Now what they people who want to do this need to do is look in the mirror and be honest about it, the third way has failed and has curtailed any definition the party had in the minds of the American people... some, reaching for the tinfoil, have even suggested that they were a fifty column element from the republican party to weaken the oposotion... I am not willing YET to go that far... the operative word here is YET.

4.- Oh this one is cute, he is small, compared to the others... access to the media. No it is not a myth that Democrats are shot out of the major news media... and when they are allowed in, mostly it is a 5;1 ratio of Republicans and do tell me when was the last time you saw either of the following:

Major speeches on the well of the senate or at the house in your local fish wrap? Anybody?

Any of the real progressive leaders on the teevee... I mean have you seen congressman conyers that much? How about Neil Abercrombie? Kucinich? The ones we see are the usual suspects, the approved face of the party.

So our party basically shows itself to the outside world as a white, almost waspish party, fitting the cartoon that the pukes have created of limousine driving, latte drinking liberals... that has to stop... and the true face of the party must be shown. This also means the radio, where we do much better since most of OUR radio hosts understand this and give the mike to our heroes, such as Cynthia McKinney...

Now until we face these issues, head on... we will continue to loose elections as our leaders continue to show a vapid side, that does not stand for anything and the base will continue to get more and more shall we say unhappy?

[I Have A Dream]

1. I agree with you! n/t

[madfloridian]

2. Third party advocation turns me off right now.

I choose to work to change what we have. Where are you getting the word "they are readying DU"?

I think a lot of us see both sides crushing into the middle at a very bad time.

Many have been discussing how to handle it if groups like PDA continue their assault on the ones who are trying to bring some change. It is going to be destructive, and there is no need for it really. It appears this board has been chosen as the battleground.

No one is perfect, but we do have some on our side who are trying to change things. Yet they are being undermined now from both sides.

Since the ones pushing from the left have no alternative except "no party" or weak "third party", then I would think it would benefit them to cooperate to change the Democratic Party instead of trying to bring it down.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. You did read the DLC latest electoral myths we must

get away from.

Theirs was an attack on the other

Oh and by the way, the party will split if attacks on PDA continue. So far PDA wants to works within the party, once they realize this is not possible, mark my words... a populist party will arise from the ashes... history will repeat itself... maybe then we will get the new deal back.

Oh and what I am pointing to is a multi generational effort

Those who refuse to learn from history and all that... but the DLC is as corrupted by teh corporations as the RNC... and we are living in a bad copy of Gilded Age America... time for the Third Way to realize this.

By the way, think of this in this way... on average how much does it cost to run for Congress? This is a two year term (1 million). What is the pay of a Congressman? (120K Anum) See how those corporate contributions can compromise your reps?

[madfloridian]

4. Are you talking about the DNC or the DLC?

That is what worries me a lot. They are not the same now really.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. I am talking quite clearly of the Democratic

Leadership Council.

The Democratic National Committee is caught in the middle. They are being tugged by the DLC who wants to continue doing what they have been doing since 1988, and which has really not worked, and the PDA who is proposing a new way, which is truly a return for the roots.

Granted populist roots are not the real roots of the Democrats-Republicans, the party of Jefferson... but those are the roots of the MODERN Democratic party.

And what we are seeing is a fight for the soul of the party... I fear if the PDA looses, and are forced out, that will splinter the party. If the DLC looses, they may actually leave and join whatever is left of the RNC, given the corporate support... well, you know... but something will have to give at this stage.

[madfloridian]

6. What does PDA consider to be "losing"?

I joined PDA when it formed. I am active in DFA. I am a pretty moderate person who always tries to see both sides of issues before jumping in. Probably that is why my husband and I were part of the Dean campaign. He is sort of the same way.

I started getting upset when I saw that PDA was going to use Howard Dean, first endorsing him heartily, then going after him for things that are not his fault.

I got off the mailing list when I began to get this feeling. I don't see why you have to attack the DNC or you think you have lost?

What do you consider "losing."? Dean has said it will take a long time to build things differently. The DLC has the money and tbe power right now, but if we work together we can change that.

Why does PDA think that attacking Dean and the DNC are the way to go? I have asked that before, but I get called a Dean worshipper instead of being answered.

I am for all the progressive groups we can have, but PDA leaders are trying to hurt the chairman of the party instead of working with him. They do it here at DU, they do it at Democrats.com.

If I understood why the DNC is your nemesis when the DLC is the one you are after, perhaps I would feel better.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. First off I am not taking sides here

the PDA is making some serious mistakes as a new group... I will say it, now... but it is not the PDA that is under attack by the DLC (dean is caught in the middle by the way, and cross fire you are gonna catch it from both sides)... it is every progressive in the party.

Think of what the party should be standing for... (at one time I even believed the party stood for this... I am no longer sure it does)

The Environment
Womens rights (this includes Roe and the right to keep that between you, your god and your doctor)
Workers rights
National Health Care
Regulation of corporations... where they need to be regulated

I could go on

What does the DLC stand for? It looks increasingly for the same things that MODERATE REPUBLICANS stood for at one time.

Now I will say it once again, the PDA is making its mistakes that any new group makes, but the attacks from the DLC on the populist message is a concerted attack and if they succeed, it will lead to the splitting of the party. I have been referring over the last three days to the Populist and the Granger Parties in the Gilded Age. The populists were in the end absorbed into the Democratic Party... their best policy is knows by most by FDRs New Deal, much of that policy project started in the 1880s and 1890s.

What people need to do is think what is going on? And what is going on is a fight for the soul of the party. Now if the above policy issues are not ones that you actually, as a moderate agree with... then I guess it is truly time for progressives to thing about leaving the party for the lurch to the right, has led to a change that might not be undone... if this is the case, it might be time... why you are hearing that talk.

Now the PDA... as I said, they have their problems, chief among them they want success yesterday... and compromise is not their middle name, but the reason why compromise is not something they want to do is... where has compromise left us? Now where you will see PDA emerge is at local and state politics first... that is coming... because the populist message is resounding with the people.

I have even begged people to read Howard Zinn on this...

[madfloridian]

8. So you are advocating 3rd party before giving the change a chance?

I just can't do that. I am very on guard, as you know if you read my posts. I am very passionate about what I believe, but I right now think that will be best accomplished through the DNC and DFA.

I think I would have been very much on board with the group, but then they turned their attacks on Dean. When a lot of us thought, hey, why the heck are you going after the man who is trying to change things.....then we were accused of adulation and worship.

I could so easily have been on board, but not to bring down the DNC. I think that is wrong right now when our country is in such serious trouble. It could have been so different.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Lord you need to re-read what I have written

and read it *carefully*

What I am saying is that if current trends continue the party will split, and a third party will rise... repeating history as it were. I can see that as a consequence of what is going on. Blame my knowledge of US History on this, and again I URGE you to read Howard Zinn.

Now seeing what may come from current trends IS FAR FROM advocating something.

That said you did NOT answer what I posed as policy questions. When I finally could vote I joined the democratic party thinking it stood for those things I outlined. Does it or does it not?

That said, forget about the shooting and the cross fire, both the PDA and the DLC are shooting hard at Dean... both are doing it... incidentally the DLC is doing it far more often and to a point effectively... for they see Dean as one of the looney left they want to drive out. Incidentally that places you in the looney left category.

[madfloridian]

10. Here is your list.

"The Environment
Womens rights (this includes Roe and the right to keep that between you, your god and your doctor)
Workers rights
National Health Care
Regulation of corporations... where they need to be regulated"

Here is the present agenda of the DNC.

http://www.democrats.org/agenda.html

Keeping America Safe at Home

Strength Overseas

Honoring Our Troops, Veterans, and Their Families

A Strong Economy

Education

Retirement Security

Affordable Health Care

Honest Government

Election Reform

Protecting Our Environment

Civil Rights

There are details at the site. A meeting will be held in Phoenix in December to discuss further.

Dean has often said it is his goal to make a Contract for America, reminiscent of Gingrich. He tried to talk to Cindy about it when she met with him, but it was not important to her. I heard the laughter in the video when she said these words. I don't laugh when someone is trying to organize the party.

Her quote:
"In my meeting with Howard Dean, he told me that the Iraq issue was "hard," and the new Democratic "Contract with America" is going to have 10 points, and the first one is going to be "Universal Health Care." I told Mr. Dean that if the Dems didn't come out strongly against the war and against George's disastrous policies, we were going to become irrelevant as a party (which is already happening) and the "hard" issue should be the one that is worked on the hardest! I'll admit that the issue doesn't seem so hard to me: George and his sycophantic band of criminals lied to the world; too many people are dead for the lies; too many people are in harm's way for the lies; it is time to bring our troops home. I am just hoping against hope that the war is on the Dems' contract somewhere. George is always pulling out the old saw that what he does in sending our children to die and kill is "hard work." I hate to see that same adjective used to describe bringing them home. The war issue is not complicated: Wrong to invade and wrong to stay. Bring our troops home. Simple."

I felt very bad when I read that. I felt like she did not understand the job he has taken on. I thought about how it felt when he was elected chair in February. We felt like we had accomplished something. All that feeling is gone now. I will continue to work with the DNC, trusting that we can make a difference. I will also work with DFA. And someone at PDA should explain to its members and to Cindy that the DNC and Dean are not their enemies. It would ease a lot of tensions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Good now how exactly do you get down tothe Netty gritty

of communicating this not only to the base... but ... to joe and jill?

That said, Cindy has a point... the people are soured on the war... it is a hard issue because few of our reps voted against it...

The first step is they need to admit, we made a mistake, we are human... owning to mistakes is actually respected.

That said, I am not a member of the PDA beyond receiving their email lists, but I know overall what they want to do (and the mistakes, strategic mistakes, they are making)

That said the trends are worrisome and they have been worrisome

Now I did send the opening essay to the DNC, I make these suggestions and observations hoping to actually help.

Oh and as I said, I do believe, in the longer trend, the DLC to be a far more dangerous element in the party than the PDA. PDA, they will be absorbed, the same way the Populist were, as soon as the message is solidified, and candidates that will push that forth are nominated and elected.

For the moment, settle in for lots of guerrilla warfare and I hate to say it Dean is in the cross fire.

But the most important thing we can do, is talk the talk and walk the walk.

I'd suggest BBV as one issue that is critical, as well as publicly funded elections.

[madfloridian]

12. By putting him in the cross fire, they are negating their purpose.

I agree the DLC is dangerous. However advocating weakening the party is dangerous as well.

I think people will have to make a choice eventually. If you don't think I am aware of the DLC and its agenda, then you have not seen my research here.

I feel that the DLC was beginning to get the message a little. Remember when Hillary stood with them and got a message from the blogosphere that shocked her? She is now more aware.

It doesn't matter though what we say here. Those I have dealt with at the PDA have their agenda. They don't care about any compromise, the war is it. They do not have an understanding of the DNC's role, nor do they care. He is their target, and it is unfortunate.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. The DLC is far more dangerous than the PDA

I truly believe that. The PDA are young activists who have never done any of this... so they are a tad enthusiastic... and as to Cindy, the war is all that matters, it would if Casey were your son.

And yes I have seen your research

Now I will repeat myself I am not advocating weakening the party, the DLC is doing it... all on their own and have done such since 1988...

But I am also talking of historical patterns, and the DLC is scaring many folks, (like me) who are just going, shoot seems they don't want us... and when you reach a critical mass (as it happened in the 19th century) things will happen.

That is why I again urge you to read on that history. THere are lessons in there that many people have forgotten.

[madfloridian]

14. I am quite aware of the history of which you speak.

I have very little hope for our country or our party right now. In fact I have lived a long time, taught a lot of subjects, taken a lot of courses, and have several degrees.

I think we are in our days as a world power. And I don't think our party can survive attacks from both sides.

I think you are right they are making mistakes, but the mistakes they are making are coming at a time when there could have been hope for our party to grow again.

I don't even know what else to say.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Oh I agree with you, we ain't a superpower no more

and the first one to say this publicly will be stoned... regardless of party affiliation.

As to hope, there are days I think that we are gonna balkanize as a nation and break up into anywhere from three to five countries.

I keep plugging along but there are days.

Now we may be seeing the beginning of the end... and a new brighter tomorrow, only reason we all keep plugging along.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. kick night crew