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Seymour Hersh, 07/15/04: "The soundtrack of the boys shrieking"

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Bush_Eats_Beef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 05:47 PM
Original message
Seymour Hersh, 07/15/04: "The soundtrack of the boys shrieking"
Thursday, July 15, 2004

Hersh: children raped at Abu Ghraib, Pentagon has videos

From Daily Kos' partial transcript of a video (link to REAL stream) of Seymour Hersh speaking at an ACLU event. He says the US government has videotapes of children being raped at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

http://www.boingboing.net/2004/07/15/hersh_children_raped.html

"Some of the worst things that happened you don't know about, okay? Videos, um, there are women there. Some of you may have read that they were passing letters out, communications out to their men. This is at Abu Ghraib ... The women were passing messages out saying 'Please come and kill me, because of what's happened' and basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys, children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. And the worst above all of that is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror. It's going to come out."

Link (via Warren). There's also a piece worth reading in this week's Newsweek about new allegations of rape and sexual torture at Abu Ghraib. Feature includes details on the identities of the Iraqi prisoners shown in those widely-circulated photographs -- including Satar Jabar (charged with carjacking, not terrorism), whose iconic hooded figure with wires attached is derisively described by many Iraqis as the "Statue of Liberty." Link

Update: Geraldine Sealey at Salon on Hersh's remarks:

After Donald Rumsfeld testified on the Hill about Abu Ghraib in May, there was talk of more photos and video in the Pentagon's custody more horrific than anything made public so far. "If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse," Rumsfeld said. Since then, the Washington Post has disclosed some new details and images of abuse at the prison. But if Seymour Hersh is right, it all gets much worse. (...)

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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. To understand better..
and forgive me if I did not read carefully enough..

are the claims that these rapes were carried out by Americans or that they were not prevented by Americans? Or both?
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Bush_Eats_Beef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It's not spelled out in this particular article...
...but back in 2004, when Hersch's comments were widely posted on DU, it was my understanding that these acts were committed by the U.S. Military.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Good question. I don't know the answer but I do know that...
...being accessory to a crime of that heinous nature changes very little, if any, level of culpability.

PB
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Ever since we invaded Iraq
preemptively; ever since we began allowing torture and humiliation as policy; ever since we failed the people of New Orleans, I have felt shame and humility and disappointment for our country. What happened to my wonderful America?

The only thing that keeps me hopeful is the fact that despite the repressive politcal climate, these atrocities are coming out and are being reported and punished. There is still a shine left somewhere on those stars on the flag.
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KC21304 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. If you read down the page linked
Here, Russ quotes Republican Senator Lindsay Graham: "The American public needs to understand, we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience. We're talking about rape and murder and some very serious charges."


This sounds like Graham is talking about our military doing this.
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ellenfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. i read somewhere that the rapists were
iraqi police with americans looking on. i think that came from a german source. don't know the truth of it.

ellen fl
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 06:09 PM
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6. An Audience With Seymour Hersh (March 2005)
http://www.conjur.com/blog/2005/03/04/an-audience-with-seymour-hersh/

he Iraqi resistance has the government wired. They have people in various key areas of the government. Hersh made a point of emphasizing that. In the meantime, American intelligence about the resistance remains at about the same level as it did eighteen months ago, scattered and incomplete. This lack of intelligence is what led to wholesale roundups of suspected members of the resistance (for a prime example of how house-to-house searches were conducted, see the Extra Features on the Fahrenheit 9/11 DVD. Specifically, the interview with the Swedish journalist who went along with American troops on house-to-house searches in Samarra.) Most of the detainees were kept in Abu Ghraib. Abu Ghraib has a notorious reputation amongst Iraqis. It is the site of the most heinous acts against prisoners by Saddam Hussein and his supporters during his reign. The Americans at Abu Ghraib, however, took things even further. Aside from the heinous actions involving beatings, using dogs trained to bite the groin areas, and even outright murder, one aspect that has raised the ire amongst Iraqis, Muslims, and others around the world, is the sexual abuse levied against the prisoners. Hersh prefaced this segment of his speech by stating that those involved in the actual application of abuse and torture in Abu Ghraib were not just acting out of ignorance or out of being victims of circumstance (understaffing an over-crowded prison.) On the contrary, the specific actions taken had to only be at the behest of people in charge of the intelligence gathering in Iraq. This goes all the way to the White House.

Hersh went into a bit of detail in the drafting of the so-called Torture Memo by Jay Bybee approved by now-Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and consulted by now-Secretary of Homeland Security, Michael Chertoff. This Torture Memo was written with one goal in mind, creating a narrowly defined term of torture that would allow the Bush administration a great amount of latitude in its techniques for obtaining information. This all began with abuse and torture of prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Some of the detainees at Guantanamo were elderly men, as old as being in their 80s, who were in no way a part of Al Qaeda or the Taliban in Afghanistan. When these innocent people were finally released, some released more than two years after being captured, Hersh opined, if they were not enemies of America before, they were now. U.S. techniques were creating more enemies and were resulting in useless information as detainees were confessing to anything in order to stop the torture and abuse.

At Abu Ghraib, the Bush administration orchestrated policies that were focused on humiliating detainees through sexual means. In the Muslim world, sex is an incredibly taboo subject. Men are not allowed to touch women in certain situations, being seen naked or forced to perform certain sexual acts brings shame upon a family that, in Muslim society, is a sentence worse than death. This was surely known by members of the Bush administration that recruited people to setup and train officers and interrogators at the prisons. We now know that five key men all had severe human rights abuses in their past careers in running prisons here in America. This was surely known by Ashcroft, despite the statements otherwise by the DOJ Inspector General. Hersh was also made aware of first-hand stories from former detainees of Abu Ghraib. He found that some woman at Abu Ghraib were so ashamed of the sexual abuse to which they were submitted that they sent messages to their family and friends to kill them when they came to visit them in the prison or when they were released. They were so ashamed of what was done to them or what they saw that they preferred to be killed than to live with the shame. Other prisoners were intimidated by the taking of photos of them in various sexual positions. These photos were used as carrots to get the prisoners to join the resistance report back to the officers with intelligence on the resistance. Failure to do so meant that the photos would be disseminated around their village and they would forever be shamed. The actual group in charge of Abu Ghraib was previously involved in traffic control and could not have known of the extreme taboo surrounding Muslims and sexual abuses. These orders had to have come from above.

The abuses at Abu Ghraib are also leaving an indelible mark in the psyche of the “worker-bee” soldiers ordered to take the photos and carry out some of the abuses. An example is the case of a female soldier who returned to the States, Indiana, specifically, from Iraq. Her mother noticed a marked change in her daughter’s attitude. The soldier’s condition worsened and wouldn’t even talk or meet with her mother. The mother, however, did come across a CD during a visit to her daughter’s home. On that CD was a folder named “Iraq” and it contained many photos of the abuses that occurred in Abu Ghraib. As a reaction to the stress, this female soldier had been consistently going to a tattoo parlor and had been having her body covered in black tattoos.


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