reson no body count. 60,000 died in the flood

[PretzelWarrior]

THe reason they want to hide the numbers of flood victims and not allow access to reporters is due to unconfirmed reports that the total number of dead will stagger everyone. The U.S. and the world will be in disbelief that 60,000 have died, but the U.S. government knows this and is securing the area.

The numbers between 3,000 and 10,000 have been bandied about, so they will strike for a number in the middle.

The only way we can know our government is not hiding tens of thousands of bodies is for them to allow independent media and humanitarian organizations in to supervise and document the recovery.


PASS IT ON. By this I mean tell your friend network, email friends, contact media and elected officials. Get it out there that this smells dirty.

[Atman]

1. I'd like to "pass it on," but what is the source of your information?

You understand, don't you, that when I pass that on, that is the first question I will be asked. When I answer "some guy on the DU message board said so," I will be laughed at and dismissed.

Gimme some ammo, and I'll fight.

[PretzelWarrior]

5. I am looking for an online link. saw something on TV about it

but look at the coverup beginning now that they've controlled media access.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9156612/

THEY KNOW it can't be shown to be as bad as total number dead in 9/11. They KNOW IT. So they will artificially deflate the number.

[fooj]

7. I have a yahoo source, as well.

Nominate!

[fooj]

6. Check out my post three down...there is some info there.

Source from yahoo...

Peace.

[PretzelWarrior]

8. thanks. that was one piece I had seen...but also

based on total number of refrigerator trucks going up to and back from a facility in rural areas between Baton Rouge and New Orleans, folks are in serious cynic and skeptic mode about the government's aims here.

[fooj]

9. Rightfully so, I'm afraid.

Peace.

[WePurrsevere]

10. Links and Facts would be good but...

All death toll numbers aside, do we truly need the potential death toll numbers to fight for this...
"...independent media and humanitarian organizations in to supervise and document the recovery"?

Personally I don't think that's an unreasonable request considering how often this admin has lied, spun and covered up issues in the past.

[PretzelWarrior]

11. I ask you to write to and call your local media and representatives

to demand just such accountability.

[truedelphi]

2. In total agreement

When will the media demand to be present and reporting??

The media's bloated dead body swims with that of the victims...

[Bumblebee]

3. My first reaction was similar but the guy who said it this morning

is actually the local FEMA guy who was on Nightline yesterday and was quite honest and forthcoming. If it had been federal FEMA saying that I would have no doubt it's a cover-up but here I am not so sure, so I'll keep an open mind.

[fooj]

4. Here's something...

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050909/ap_on_re_us/katrina_what_planners_feared


Peace.

[hwmnbn]

12. Isn't the Red Cross maintaining a database......

for distributing aid and identifying survivors? They can use this to determine how many are missing. If there is a huge discrepancy between that number and the official body count, we know the government is lying.

Also there must be tax, property, social security, credit histories, state IDs, medical, bank, all sorts of records that can be cross-checked.

I'm thinking it would be difficult to cover up the number of dead.

edit to eliminate hearsay.

[PretzelWarrior]

14. not really. the water removes fingerprints quite effectively

and that is the story being put out there too. Most of these poor people do not have dental records to go off of. Most do not have DNA samples available from things like hairbrushes, etc. since they have been washed away. Relatives could be used for some type of matching but it is almost impossible to imagine this right now with them scattered to the four winds through evacuations to many cities.

This thing is about to spin out of control. The red cross can attempt to track the numbers, but how effective will they be with volunteers needed to observe and document?

I fear a vast coverup as though many of these thousands never existed.

[tavalon]

36. It erases DNA too!

Not.

[PretzelWarrior]

37. I believe I covered that in the rest of my post. you have to...

compare the DNA to something. If their earthly belongings like toothbrush, clothing, and hairbrushes are washed away...nothing to compare it to. except eventually some relatives. who are dispersed for months to far flung shelters.

[dweller]

13. guy on Ed Schultz right now

with a friend firefighter from Mississippi that he spoke with today.

Said one of the 2 highschools in Jefferson Parish was being used to hold bodies, upwards of 1200 there now.


this guy sounds honest and legit. Ed is letting him speak.

dp

[PretzelWarrior]

16. so that's one location. they're also carting them farther afield

up north of N.O.

[Skittles]

15. we received daily death tolls on the tsunami

why the big cover-up in America???

[PretzelWarrior]

17. because Americans are fascinated with large death tolls...

in 3rd world countries. It's amazing to them that 20,000 can perish in Columbia due to mudslides or 100,000 due to earthquake in Turkey/Iran....but if it happens in their country they will be so hopping mad especially when most of those deaths were not due to lack of warning.

This is a horrible human tragedy but also an indictment of the Bush administration's criminality.

What do criminals do? They run. They try to hide or destroy the evidence.

[hwmnbn]

19. But the survivors stay behind to report them missing......

Only if a person is homeless and never been arrested can he not leave a trace of his existence.

[Pacifist Patriot]

18. Is that number based on the theoretical scenario crafted

prior to Hurricane Katrina? I know there was a hypothetical drafted estimating a similar type storm would result in a loss of around 62,000.

[PretzelWarrior]

20. also based on THIS article from Australia

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1452896.htm

[PretzelWarrior]

23. here's another from Turkish Press with photo

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=68708

[PretzelWarrior]

43. just look at this map and tell me how many ailing and old

and morbidly obese in the city could evade rushing floodwaters coming from that HUGE lake?

http://maps.google.com/maps?oi=map&q=60000+Dead,+New+Orleans,+LA

[Imagevision]

21. Reporters must report on actual death numbers...

After they kick the reporters out -- amazingly the expected body count drastically drops? -- No-No, sorry don't believe a word this administration comes up with!

http://downingstreetmemo.com/

[tavalon]

22. Tell me how in the world

They can disappear 50,000 people? People have relatives. They might be able to disappear 1000 or 2000 even but 50,000?

[Pacifist Patriot]

24. It's still chaos...

There are tens of thousands of people who have no clue where their family, friends and neighbors may be.

And if an entire family was washed away, who is left to inquire about them?

[doodadem]

26. That's what I'm thinking too...

If there were waves big enough to wash a barge over a damn levee, how many bodies have been totally washed out to sea and become fish food? How did they estimate the number of dead in the Asian tsunami?

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Ok I will

settle down for the horrific details

Lets say you and your whole family died... and I mean the whole family, nobody reports you missing... and it is oh 20 of you between your family and extended family... all from small children to grand ma and grand pa? Nobody asks for you... you never existed.

That is the oldest trick in the book and if there are enough families in this conditions in NOLA they never existed.

There are other ways... when giving out the numbers, they have spread the survivors to the four winds, so getting a full database will be hard, and many databases are being compiled, There is no central database for missing people though the ICRC has taken over the ARC in their database... that will make it a tad harder.

But anybody who is not reported or asked, never existed.

[tavalon]

27. Even if they had social security numbers?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here. You just brought up something that hadn't occurred to me.

[PretzelWarrior]

28. social security numbers? who's going to verify that?

who? the government?

[tavalon]

33. Reporters! Reporters?

Oh, shit. :cry:

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Security numbers it is easy to disapear thiose

Trust me, if they are gonna hide casualties, it is very easy, easier than most people understand

[tavalon]

34. I'm not arguing that they're going to try

I just wanted to believe that it wasn't doable on that scale. Now, you've made me less sure. And more nauseated.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. I've seen it happen

not in the US, but seen it happen... that is why I am sharing the ugly secrets

Now hopefully the numbers, the REAL numbers don't reach 60K... from seeing the numbers my low end is 10,000 my high end is 100,000 and my mid range for this is anywhere from 40-60K... I hope this hits the low end, but truth be told I don't trust them. I also know they will need, for health reason, and it has not dawned on them, to use mass graves. Right now they are starting to do body identification, but within a week, for very valid health reasons, you will hear the word mass graves... and at that point you are not concerned about counting, just shoving them into a grave, covering them with lie, and then earth.

Oh and I used to be a Red Cross volunteer with a national society that actually defied orders from time to time (not the ARC, which has disgusted me for other reasons) So I did work more than one disaster area.

[Angry Girl]

29. 25,000 body bags on hand might indicate something

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15949043&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=hurricane-katrina-hell--25-000-bodybags--name_page.html

Google 25,000 body bags for other sources as well, mostly foreign, mind you.

Also, 40,000 was another number mentioned.
http://www.t-g.com/story/1116806.html

However, there is NO way the government is ever going to release the real figures. That's just not the way this administration works.

Nightweed's Hurricane Katrina Aid Organizations

[FlashHarry]

30. That's a bit hysterical, isn't it?

I mean, let's not throw numbers around until we know something. I realize that this is a cataclysmic tragedy -- one for which the Bush crime family will burn in Hell -- but let's not feed the media frenzy.

see here: http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_09_04.php#006484

[PretzelWarrior]

32. what does your link prove? isn't it interesting they start talking

low numbers AFTER they get control of the situation and start waving news crews such as NBC's Brian Williams away at gunpoint?

you really are credulous. oh. it's on a wire report. so it MUST be true.

[bloom]

40. 60-some-thousand

was the number of deaths that was estimated prior to the event - based on a cat. 3.

As botched as everything was - I can't see why the number would be any less.

Plus - "East of New Orleans... has largely been untouched by anyone"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4711845&mesg_id=4711845


I expect them to lie. They always do.

[PretzelWarrior]

35. AGAIN! Point of this is to get the word out....and GET ACTION

I don't want to prove after the fact that they were hiding bodies just as they MADE UP WMDs...

I want to get people in there NOW verifying the totals so we have something tangible to go forward from.

Each person's life was important. They are humans. THey are Americans. We must not let them be forgotten. Or disappeared because they are inconvenient.

[Catrina]

42. Absolutely

let the reporters in. We pay for all this, how dare they refuse to allow us to see the results of the work they are hired BY US to do.

The dead deserve to be counted. They were human beings, they should be identified whenever possible, as were the 9/11 victims (notice how the deathtoll there was exaggerated and when the real numbers, under 2,000 came out, it was barely reported).

I assume always that this administration is, was and will lie about anything. They killed over 100,000 Iraqis based on a pack of lies. Why does anyone doubt they would lie about the number of dead Americans in a disaster that they let happen? I know they will, if we let them.

[StayOutTheBushes]

39. Pretzel logic?

[PretzelWarrior]

41. no. Pretzels are Bush's mortal enemy.

I'm just a conduit of things to think about and have proven or disproven.

So far, no one has proven or disproven it.

[Moderator]

44. Locking

Sheer conjecture of the saddest sort. We'll hear numbers enough soon.