Dean may have volunteered for military when physical flunked

[mouse7]

This is all based on a link to this article that was put on that Dean/FDR thread of mine by someone who thought it backed "rich people dodged draft argument.

Here's the link...
http://george.loper.org/~george/archives/2003/Nov/905.html

Now... I'm not going to claim the right to correct the entire mass media based on one article found on what looks to be a blog. However, it looks like the author sources his work pretty well. Threrfore there is a good chance this is accurate. It looks like all his quotes are pulled from major publications.

Here's what is in the article...

1)"In the winter of 1970, a 21-year-old student from Yale walked into his armed services physical in New York carrying X-rays and a letter from his orthopedist, eager to know whether a back condition might keep him out of the military draft...."

Dean did not know when he walked into the armed services physical whether he would be disqualified or not. The phrase "eager to know whether" indicated Dean did not know what the Armed Forces physician would decided when he entered the office that day.


2)"...In early 1970, more than a year before Dr. Dean's student deferment was due to lapse, he decided to see where he stood.

If approved for service, he said, he thought he might try Officer Candidate School, as a Yale friend had done...."

Dean's lottery number NEVER came up. Dean still had a YEAR on his student deferment. Dean walked into his Armed Forces Physical ready to VOLUNTEER FOR ACTIVE DUTY THROUGH OFFICERS CANDIDATE SCHOOL.

To repeat... Dean did not get a deferment from the draft. Dean entered his Armed Forces Physical voluntarily intending to enter active duty service in Officer's Candidate School while his student deferment was STILL HAD A YEAR LEFT ON IT.

3) "A few weeks later, a letter arrived informing him that his draft classification had been changed from 2-S, the student deferment, to 1-Y."

Dean's draft status and student deferment were changed after he flunked the physical for VOLUNTARILY ATTEMPTING TO JOIN ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY SERVICE THROUGH OFFICER"S CANDIDATE SCHOOL. Dean was never given a draft deferment. Dean's draft status and student deferment status were changed as a result of the physical he took to volunteer for active duty!!!

No deferment. No rich versus poor stuff. Dean tried to volunteer for Officer's Candidate School and his back flunked the exam.

My... doesn't that make Dean's story take a completely different picture. Was Dean enthusiastically joining the service? No, apparently not. However, LOTS of people entered military service at that time not too thrilled about it. He certainly can't be faulted for that.

So what did Dean do again? He tried to volunteer for Officer's Candidate School unenthusiastically, brought complete medical records to his physical for Officer's Candidate School as is required, and flunked the physical. This prevented him from entering Officer Candidate School and active duty voluntarily, and was done more than a year before his student deferment ran out.

-----

I need the full text of the New York Times big Dean deferment article as a start. The research can be expanded from there. :)


edit - typo

[zulchzulu]

1. Dean's mom even says "it looks bad"

Hey, keep bringing it up though. Another weak part of Dean's candidacy needs to be discussd.

The perception is that Dean got a deferrment and then went skiing in Colorado and did concrete work after he got out of serving his country due to a bad back. I've met Viet Nam vets was had bad backs who served their country.

The punchline for Dean should be "Liabilities R Us".

[mouse7]

3. Not a liability any more.

Dean attempted to volunteer for Officers Candidate School. He still had a year left on his student deferment when he tried to volunteer for active duty.

The perception is wrong. Am i surprised considering the staus of corporate media today? No.

Dean tried to VOLUNTEER for miliary service. He failed the physical. The change of Dean's draft status and deferment status was an aftereffect.

Dean attempted to volunteer to serve in the military. His body failed him.

Dean did everything it is possible for a person to do to serve his country except wear a big grin as the process was enfolding.

What's the next attack by you, Dean didn't smile enough when he volunteered?

[Cogito]

4. dean said he wasn't interested

in military service. Dean said he probably could have joined if he had wanted to. So, I don't know where you get the stuff about Dean wanting to volunteer.

[mouse7]

6. He volunteered. Not happily, but he volunteered.

Dean said he wasn't really interested. However, he volunteered anyway. Volunteered for active duty Officer Training School. He failed the physical one takes when they volunteer, and dean took it not knowing whether he would pass it and head off the next day to start years of active duty service or sent home.

Dean was willing to do his duty even though he wasn't enthusiastic about it. Sometimes it says more good things about somebody when they attempt to do their share even though they aren't happy about the prospects of it.

[SahaleArm]

9. LOL - Make up your mind n/t

[mouse7]

11. Nothing has changed. Info has always been there.

Is anyone surprised the corporate media sought to cherry-pick what they wanted out of the quotes to make Dean look as bad as possible?

I think we all recognize they do that.

[NashVegas]

21. Volunteered?

When does "he thought he might try " become "volunteered?"

By stretching a thought into an action, you aren't helping this candidate.

[bearfartinthewoods]

13. it must be very inconvenient when the spin doesn't match the

candidate's version.

[mouse7]

16. Not candidate's version... NY Times version

The facts were all in that article... at the very bottom.

Dean volunteered for active duty.

[SahaleArm]

20. Give an explicit quote from the article - don't editorialize...

And don't start another thread - please.

[zulchzulu]

8. His body failed him? zzzzzzzzzzzzz

I've mentioned this before, but I've met Viet Nam vets who had some back problems and such and they still served.

This apologist crap you snagged from some blog is hogwash.

If Dean really wanted to volunteer, there were plenty of desk jobs and such that needed to be filled.

The fact that Dean went skiing for almost a year and then had gigs doing construction pouring concrete after the deferrment is, shall we say, a liability. Period.

[mouse7]

10. Dean COULD NOT volunteer for job with lesser physical standard

There were no lesser physicals then or now. Each branch of the service has ONE and ONLY ONE physical standard for entering personnel UNLESS state of emergency has been declared.

There has been no such state of emergency declared since WW2.

What you are claiming Dean should have done DID NOT EXIST THEN and DOES NOT EXIST today.

on edit- one other point, the deferment Dean recieved was applied administratively AFTER Dean failed his volunteer entrance physical. Dean's draft number was never called and his student deferment was still valid for more than a year when Dean chose to volunteer for active duty officer's candidate school.

[w4rma]

2. Your explanation, mouse7, seems solid, IMHO. (n/t)

[stickdog]

5. But he'll never beat the Deserter-in-Chief! (nt)

[mouse7]

7. Dean can call him the deserter in chief now.

Dean has nothing to be ashamed of here. Dean attempted to serve his country in the military. he volunteered and was willing to go on active duty. He body failed him. That's not his fault.

[mouse7]

12. It's Real!! NY Time Link. Loper blog just a cut and paste.

I just found a link to the NYTimes article on the NY Times site.

http://college3.nytimes.com/guests/articles/2003/11/22/1126070.xml

November 22, 2003

33 Years Later, Draft Becomes Topic for Dean

By RICK LYMAN and CHRISTOPHER DREW

>>>>"In the winter of 1970, a 21-year-old student from Yale walked into his armed services physical in New York carrying X-rays and a letter from his orthopedist, eager to know whether a back condition might keep him out of the military draft...."

>>>>"...In early 1970, more than a year before Dr. Dean's student deferment was due to lapse, he decided to see where he stood.

If approved for service, he said, he thought he might try Officer Candidate School, as a Yale friend had done. He said he had never considered the National Guard...."

>>>>"A few weeks later, a letter arrived informing him that his draft classification had been changed from 2-S, the student deferment, to 1-Y. Under that classification, he was qualified for military service only in case of extreme national emergency, meaning that he effectively moved to the very back of the line.

As for those months skiing, Dr. Dean said such activity did not exacerbate his back condition, as running did. And, yes, he said, the pain does sometimes come back, especially now that he is getting older.

"Sometimes you'll see, when I get out of the plane or the car, that I walk and there's a bit of a limp for the first few yards," he said. "If I sit in one position for too long, it bothers me now."


That's all the quotes.

Dean didn't avoid the draft. Dean's number was not due to be called for more than a year. He had that long left on his student deferment. He volunteered for active duty in Officers Candidate School and he failed the voluteers entrance physical....

.... And the NY Times buried THAT part of the story at the bottom of the story. Most newspapers down the line in the NY Times Syndication probably cut that part of the article off in the lay-out process.

That's so cold.

[TexasSissy]

14. Oh, please. Give it up. This is embarrassing. He sought defer-

ment, okay? It's not a crime. Dean knows he'll have to take a hit on this, and he's okay with it.

[mouse7]

15. Wrong. Didn't happen. Proof was in the NY Times

Dean tried to volunteer for active duty. Dean sought Officers Candidate School.

That's the facts. The rest is neo-con and corporate media manipulation.

Dean attempted to volunteer for OCS with more than a year left on his student deferment. Dean was a more than a year from the first opportunity of his draft number coming up.

[mikehiggins]

17. This is sad

Mr. Mouse, nothing in the article backs up your claim.

Dean wanted to find out what he was facing when his deferment ran out.

If he was likely to be drafted he thought he might try for OCS, which as a college graduate he had a shot at.

He didn't walk through those doors looking to volunteer for anything.

By his own statement he would have preferred not to go. All he was doing was trying to find out where he stood in advance, which is not a stupid thing to do.

I attempted to join the Navy like my cousin while I was still in college but was rejected on the face of it because of my poor eyesight. There was still an open question whether my vision would keep me out of the Army, especially as we ramped up to the full scale VietNam disaster so I had to go through a complete physical later on at Whitehall Street in lower Manhattan.

If I had been drafted I would have gone (there were no lottery picks at that time) but I wasn't anxious to be an infantryman by any means.

At any rate, trying to portray what Dean did as anything but a sensible effort to get an idea of what awaited him after graduation is dubious, to say the least. To claim he was trying to enter the service is a joke.

[mouse7]

18. It all there in Times New Roman font

If you wish to live in a fantaasy world where it's not true, that's your choice. However, it's all there in the article for the rest of us.

[mikehiggins]

19. English is a wonderful language

The same words can be interpreted so many ways.

Why not run a poll and see how many people agree with your reading of those words?

[Cheswick2.0]

23. clearly he did not seek deferment

read again

[AngryAmish]

22. True or false, the draft issue has no resonance

Bush was AWOL - nobody cares. Clinton was called a draft dodger - nobody cares. Vietnam era draft status has nothing to do with electability.

Oh, when I say nobody, I mean the vast majority of the sheeple who claim to vote. They are too stupid to see the real issues.

[9119495]

24. It was a bad war--he was right to try to get out of it.

Much of the war was illegal. People were massacred. The top people running it were untrustworthy and America should have never been involved.

Did you know that Ho Chi Mihn quoted Thomas Jefferson in his speech calling for independence from France? Americans were there to congratulate him on his stance. We only decided to abandon him and side with France after France would not allow re-armament of West Germany. Thus, we sacrificed Vietnam for our interests in Europe and made Ho Chi Mihn a communist--where else could he turn to get help against France.

Dean has nothing to be ashamed of here--no apologists needed.

[bushisanidiot]

25. This Argument Is Splitting Hairs. Did President Clinton Suffer in

'92 or '96 due to his military record? George W. Bush went AWOL then became a deserter and he was STILL installed in the white house.
Do you REALLY think that Dean's military exam is going to be an issue? Give me a break!! Nobody gives a sh*t! The country wants a real leader!! We don't need a military general or whatever to survive (although I would support Clark if he won the nomination).

splitting hairs over Dr. Dean's military medical exam is just giving Rove ammo (although it's a pretty weak argument for them considering president dumbass went AWOL).

[Moderator]

26. Consolidating threads.....

Please continue the discussion in the thread which you started earlier:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=21024


DU Moderator