Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

How many churches in your neck of the woods were closed today

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 04:48 PM
Original message
How many churches in your neck of the woods were closed today
I drove around a little this morning to check and see how much persecution we have wrought. Apparently in South Mississippi, we evil liberals are failures because every church I noticed was wide open and full to the brim. Surely churches are boarded up somewhere in America; with all the anti-christian hate being spewed and all the constitutional amendments floating around about ending religion as we know it. Or am I getting my who hates who meter mixed up?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
CatholicEdHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Many Catholic churches are closing in rural areas
due to the priest shortage. The quickest alleveation of the problem would be to make celibacy optional, but I do not see that coming anytime soon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. They don't close churches due to the "priest shortage" but

due to parishes becoming too small to keep open. People move around a lot in this country, have historically moved out of cities into suburbs as they get older, which has closed a lot of big old Catholic churches in Northeastern cities.

A lot of Catholics are moving South, and people are converting, too, so that in the Atlanta archdiocese we keep ADDING parishes and schools, including high schools and a new Catholic college. And we don't have a priest shortage here; have a good program to recruit seminarians.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pharlo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. That may be the case in some instances, but not all.
I live in the midwest - nice area, decent growth, yet Catholic churches are closing constantly and the reason we are always given is lack of priests.

Currently, the closest Catholic church to where I live had had such an influx of new members that they built a new church less than a decade ago because the old one wasn't large enough. The new church comfortably accomodated that parish. Then, they started closing a lot of the rural churches down. Suddenly, this new church was too small to accommodate the sudden influx of new parishoners. So, they started holding more masses. Recently, they announced more rural church closings within the next three years (lack of priests). They're either going to have to build an even larger church, or hold more masses.

Actually, I know of at least three 'new' parishes created by the consolidation of multiple rural parishes where it was necessary to build a new church to hold the new membership.

In fact, my church was closed about eight years ago. I went from a 5 minute drive to a 35 minute drive to get to church - based upon the consolidation of my old parish.

I stopped going to church.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nickinSTL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-05 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. not just in rural areas
they (the Catholic Church) recently closed a number of smaller parishes in the St. Louis metro area.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm laughing hard.
I happen to have the misfortune of living in a red pocket in SoCal chock full of Hardright Conservative Christians, with at least 3 churches per head (O.K., I'm exaggerating slightly).

They are seemed to be doing good business to me; and, from the drivel I hear from my neighbors, the pastors seem to be getting the Rethuglican talking points, along with the Falwell talking points, passed around.

I'm a Unitarian-Universalist, who likes attending New Thought churches, such as Church of Religious Science ( www.rsintl.org ).

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. Actually, in the last 6 months..
several Roman Catholic churches, and at least 3 United Methodist churches on the North Shore of MA have closed. I am talking only about my small section of the North Shore. All 3 of the UM churches were in the same city. The Catholic churches have been in different cities and towns, and more mergers and closings have been announced recently.

I guess since they are all within a 35 mile range of the epicenter of all evil, Boston, that is to be expected.

RC and UM churches are closing all over the state. It is really a shame.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. Just wait till the gays start stealing children from their beds
:)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-05 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. I thought they stole childrens' breath while they were sleeping?
Or was that cats?


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. What?! Gays are stealing cats?
This is how rumors get started. Sadly, it's also how the Bush Administration creates foreign policy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
johannes1984 Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. The lowlands has it covered
during the summer time , for a city with the population of over 200.000 there are two churches ,interchanging the services ......they only have one preacher ....nationwide the numbers are even worse .the netherlands has a few more i think ,...not sure


it's too bad that even the christian right wing parties aren't comming to the aide ,too busy playing the heden bastard in southern italy ...the bastards


on the up side , some evangelicals were present at a festival a week or so ago ....they became quite the mockery ,to their irritation .....well 't could have been because the evil catholic monks were giving away free abby beer to everyone ....even minors to boot

and that concludes this week's letter from europe , where conservative is the only dirty word
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
njdemocrat106 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. That abbey beer is wonderful, too
Getting a little off-topic here, but Chimay (from Belgium) is a beer brewed by monks, and it's :9 .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
johannes1984 Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-05 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. I know it's so smoooth for the palette
and the great thing is this was Westmalle , which is specially blessed by the archbischop ......after having gone trough three different yeasting procesing cycles .....those monks are to brewers what delta forces are to the armed forces ....

and you know they're also nicer , i mean they were going along with the ride , slowly passing trough the crowd and savouring the nice south african music or ragng punk ....the evangelicals were standing there as if having fun was not part of god's plan


all the poor people of our age that will miss out on the ride of their lifebecause of the interest of a few self serving insecure bastards .....it's good i have that beer or i'ld be really sad for them .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. Hmmm, my church was open
Of course, we are a publicly affirming member congregation of the Supportive Congregations Network, working for the full inclusion and participation in our denomination for all of God's persons, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, physical ability or economic status. So there ya go; a bunch of bleeding heart liberals. No wonder we're open
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. God Bless you and your congregation
Gratuitous. The republican party has no use for you and your kind what with all that inclusion and stuff.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Our congregation has been richly blessed
Sometimes I don't know how we do it on our fabulous $40,000 annual budget, but for some reason we always get the best pastor, the best musicians, and some incredibly dedicated and hard-working people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. conservative christians love to bear false witness
it's how they pack the pews.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. My Episcopal parish was open
We get about two dozen new members every quarter.

The Episcopal Church tends to attract a lot of disillusioned fundamentalists who believe in God but are tired of the hatred and rigidity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Payne Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
11. So much Persecution
Edited on Sun Jul-31-05 06:55 PM by Payne
One day people might not be able to put religious relics on public property with tax money,how horrible.BTW check out the image in my sig.:P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. claims of persecution serve as pretexts for "retaliation"
That's the real motive of it. If they don't take over the country they'll be persecuted/etc., so off they go to play with Dominionism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
banana republican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
15. MINE WAS CLOSED
Edited on Sun Jul-31-05 09:30 PM by banana republican
But then we all had been invited to go to the Methodist Church down the street as past of an ecumenical action (Lutheran).


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
16. You are always welcome at my church....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
18. Not nearly enough superstition peddlers closed - persecution has failed
As I drove around today I saw houses dogma, where religious superstition was being peddled, sometimes even to children, operating in broad daylight. We have not even driven the Xtians into the closet, much less rid our society of their delusional drivel.

The first attempt to contain and eliminate them (Diocletian 302-304 C.E.) failed, and as a result the Empire declined and fell this resulted in the utter collapse of Western Civilization.

We CANNOT let this happen a second time.



P.S. Take extra precautions to protect your books as they have been known to torch libraries when their power grows to the point that this is practical.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spectral Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-05 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
19. My church was open, but it was so hot today that some people fainted
They need to get air conditioning. One elderly guy hit his head on the pew when he fainted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-05 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
22. No, but gas stations are....
a lot fewer than last year and it's not a small
town.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-05 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
23. Sadly a lot of liberal churches are dying out, mainly because
we don't push the "bums in seats" issue like the save-yourself-from-Hell types of churches. So a lot of times liberal believers just opt not to go to church, thus the churches close down. :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. New book (from a conservative view) on why liberal churches are dying




Exodus: Why Americans Are Fleeing Liberal Churches for Conservative Christianity (Hardcover)
by Dave Shiflett

Hardcover: 224 pages
Publisher: Sentinel (June 2, 2005)
Language: English
ISBN: 1595230076
Product Dimensions: 9.5 x 6.3 x 0.8 inches
Price: $23.95 list (Amazon $16.29)

Amazon.com Description:
Dave Shiflett gives us a book that is essentially a marketing research project on modern Christianity. The focus? Why are the conservative, orthodox brands of faith increasing market-share while mainline Protestant denominations are losing it? Shiflett uses personal interviews as his research tool. And there is undoubtedly a vicarious thrill as Shiflett presents hard questions to figures from both camps. For example on homosexuality, he asks the liberals whether they "…entertain the slightest worry that converting a former sin into a celebrated and even consecrated virtue might possibly have eternal consequences?" And to the conservatives, "If God is indeed omniscient and omnipresent, why He allow disaster to occur, especially to those who have so closely cast their lot with him?" The answers Shiflett receives from his subjects measure out in words the true distance between the liberal and conservative positions.

Shiflett shows us that the progressive's journey starts by questioning literal Biblical interpretation. The liberal position observes that perhaps we should use the wisdom God gave us when seeking to understand and live by a Book that advises stoning for unruly children. Taking various Biblical passages like these without a grain of salt could leave us running short of rocks. In contrast, the conservative's dogmatic adherence to the same Book begins and ends with the nature and strength of faith itself. The sure belief that no matter the event, it can somehow be understood as the mysterious working of an omnipotent Creator. So the tragic events at Columbine for example (discussed in detail in the book) are not solely an indication we live in a world where people can choose to do very bad things. Instead, they are seen as evidence in the physical world of a spiritual warfare happening between God and the devil, where the eternal souls of us all are the territory in dispute. Looking at a tragedy like Columbine with these eyes reveals that "…God has a plan, and his plan is to turn evil into good."

Shiflett makes no pretense of editorial objectivity. His own views as to which group of religious leaders should perhaps worry about the exact nature of their eternal reward, and which ones will be welcomed by a majestic, sometimes foreboding God into heaven, are quite obvious. But he still gives a fair shake to subjects on both sides of the divide, presenting his questions, and recording the hopes, fears and faith he finds in the answers. And like any good marketing analysis, Exodus looks beyond the numbers and comes to some clear conclusions, one of which being that the power of orthodox Christian faith lies in its clear hope and steady assurance of what lies beyond death’s door.--Ed Dobeas

From Publishers Weekly
In this readable work of partisan reportage, conservative journalist Shiflett visits all the usual suspects in the denominational culture wars, with a few of his relatives and friends thrown in. His engaging accounts of interviews with figures like Chuck Colson, Southern Baptist Richard Land and Orthodox writer Frederica Mathewes-Green succeed in dispelling the idea that traditional Christians "have 'retreated' into orthodox belief as a way of escaping the vicissitudes of modern life." The beliefs they embrace are intellectually rigorous and ethically demanding, hardly the stuff of retreat. Shiflett even allows a bit of nuance in his treatment of liberal Episcopal priests, giving a sympathetic hearing to a priest whose affirmation of gay sexuality coexists with her unflinching faith in the Resurrection. But Shiflett indulges all too often in dubious hyperbole ("Whenever they glance at a car bumper," conservative Christians "see one of those Darwin footed fish") and curious extrapolations (the chapter on evangelicals is almost entirely taken up with a narrative of the religious response to Columbine). He misidentifies a key figure in the Episcopalian/Anglican split and bungles the names of public figures, like Princeton philosopher Peter (not Paul) Singer and San Francisco mayor Gavin Newsom (not Mark Newsome). In the end, Shiflett's strong writing and basically generous spirit cannot overcome these deficiencies, and this book will do little more than confirm well-worn prejudices on all sides. (June 2)


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-05 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Thanks for this. :^) I have an interesting article here you might
like to read:

The Presbyterian Church (USA)—like many Christian denominations—has been starkly divided over the role of gays and lesbians in the church. It feels to many, as author Richard Mouw puts it, that the church is getting ready for "divorce court." Should the church split or stay together? The authors of these two articles—both Presbyterian, one liberal and one conservative—differ on many things, but they are in accord about whether unity—or schism—is the best way forward.

All of these died in faith without having received the promises, but from a distance they saw and greeted them. They confessed that they were strangers and foreigners on the earth, for people who speak in this way make clear that they are seeking a homeland....they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; indeed, God has prepared a city for them.—Hebrews 11:13-16

Many contemporary Christians think the church is dispensable, that God is more easily accessed outside the limits and constraints of church structures. In my own salvation history, however, the church is central. I was introduced to Jesus Christ by the actions as well as the words of his followers. I have grown in the faith because others have taken the time to teach it to me.

Two groups have ministered to me in powerful ways in recent years. One is gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender Presbyterians. The church has developed the bad habit of talking about this group as if it is a problem for the denomination. They have not been a problem for me. Quite the opposite: They have provided me with luminous examples of how to live a Christian life under very adverse conditions.

This denomination’s policies toward its GLBT members are restrictive to the point of cruelty. We tell many who want to offer sacrifices for the good of the church that their life choices are so much more sinful than the rest of ours that we’ve had to erect special barriers to keep them from laying their gifts at the altar. Our church’s teaching that all same-sex acts are wrong, no distinctions, has downright perverse effects. The more that GLBT persons conform to the practices the church blesses and honors for heterosexuals—public pledges of fidelity to another person, family commitment to the nurture of children—the less likely that they can be ordained and that they will be welcomed to work out their discipleship in most Presbyterian congregations.

Yet here they are in this denomination, or eager to be, if only we had a place for them. They keep on witnessing to the truth of Christ in their lives. They keep on offering help that the church desperately needs but is too proud and stubborn to accept. They keep on ministering, with tender compassion, to me and to many others who have the approval and privileges that have been denied to them. Their unselfishness lifts my sights.

THE OTHER GROUP that makes me feel awkward and shy is evangelical and conservative Presbyterians. I grew up in a home so liberal that when Dwight Eisenhower was elected president, I couldn’t believe it: I’d never met a self-identified Republican—how could a party with no members elect a president? My liberal Catholic girlhood and liberal Protestant adult life were similarly sheltered. Fifteen years ago, I decided to do some research in an evangelical seminary. When I arrived on the campus, I knew very few evangelicals.

But I did have definite expectations, set by the liberal culture of which I had always been a part. I believed that the only reason anyone would choose to become or remain a religious conservative is lack of the psychological strength to confront the ambiguity and uncertainty of the world as it is. (I have since learned that evangelicals harbor a corresponding theory about liberals, that we are liberals because we lack the moral fortitude to confront the truth and live by it.) I also expected the evangelical conservatives to be theological dinosaurs. And I did not expect my faith to be enriched by what I saw and heard at the seminary I was studying.

But many evangelicals, in my experience, don’t fit those liberal stereotypes. Evangelicals are not, as a class, fearful and unstable, at least no more than the rest of us. I have met some who are much better than I am at looking at themselves and the world with unsparing honesty. I’ve learned that theology in the evangelical world includes lively theological conversation that enriches all of us, including liberals. But the biggest surprise for me has been that my experience in what is still for me a very strange religious culture has not shaken my faith; it has strengthened it.

This is the doing of particular evangelical Presbyterians. Despite their best efforts, they have not changed my opinions. But early in each of the relationships that have become important to me, there was a moment—a sort of spiritual ka-ching—when we both knew, and knew that the other knew, that we were hearing the same gospel, loud and clear. The capacity to recognize each other as Christ’s own despite how wrong we are, about so many things, is proof that the gospel is true—it really does cut through our wrongness and other people’s. The fact that that happens strengthens faith.

Generally, the two groups I have named avoid and terrify each other. Each is deeply fearful that it and the wider church will suffer if the other gains any more power or prominence. How are we to talk about the church when we are so deeply estranged from each other?

How’s this for a model of the church that we are called to become: "They confessed that they were strangers and foreigners on the earth." What if instead of denying our estrangement, or bemoaning it, we embraced it as a gift from God?

This image of the church as a band of strangers who accept our discomfort with each other as God’s way of moving us forward may seem grimly Calvinistic. The image certainly flies in the face of the best marketing advice about how to grow your church or denomination: Create a warm, friendly enclave where like-minded people can find refuge from the tensions of contemporary life. Churches like that are what the proponents of a cool, clean division of the denomination claim to have in view. (Having just studied the bloody split of the Presbyterian Church in the United States in 1837, I am certain that peaceful or gracious schisms are not possible.)

I want to advocate an alternative: a tense, edgy, difficult church made up of zenoi, strangers, who cling to each other for dear life in the same chilly, rocky baptismal boat because we are headed to the same destination: a better country. This "church of strangers" has three practical advantages:

1) A church that contains members we think strange, even barbaric, is a healthier setting for us, for our formation as Christians. We like to think that a church of our kind, one that excludes those who believe incorrectly and behave badly by our lights, would be a better school for goodness than the mixed church we’ve got. It is not necessarily so. Familiarity and affinity breed bad habits as well as virtues.

Richard Mouw has acknowledged that when conservatives stay in their own enclaves, they direct their natural combativeness at each other. When we so-called liberals hang out together, without those "other" Presbyterians, we can be—in fact often are—smug. We are pretty sure that we are advanced and others outmoded. When everyone else grows up, we believe, they will look and think like us. In my experience, we are less likely to slide over into snobbishness when "they"—those we have defined as inferior—are in the room, some of them thinking as clearly and acting as maturely as some of us. So if one reason for joining a church is to get help for living more faithfully, the strange members are important. They make us self-conscious, and perhaps more aware that if we want more righteousness for the church, we may have to fix ourselves as well as those others.

2) The Presbyterian Church will be better off—more productive and more faithful—if we strangers in it hold on to each other. There are several important projects that estranged groups in the church could profitably work on together. One is Christology. None of us is able yet to say clearly or powerfully enough who Jesus Christ is in this world. The debate often takes place at the level of bumper stickers: "Jesus the Only Sole Singular Way" on their vehicles; "Many, Many Paths to God" on ours. We can do better than that. Our various parties have different kinds of specialized knowledge: Liberals are practiced in learning as Christians from other faith traditions; evangelicals have expertise in nurturing and sustaining intense personal relationships with Jesus Christ. Instead of battering each other with our different perspectives on Jesus Christ, we might listen for what complements and corrects our own view in what others have to say. Perhaps, if we did that, we could represent him more fully and accurately to a world that doesn’t know him very well.

And what about the issue of gays and lesbians and the church? Richard Mouw and I agree about two matters. First, the question of homosexuality is important. The church cannot avoid it. But second, important as the issue is, it is not a faith-breaker. Each of us thinks that the other, seriously mistaken as the other is, is a Christian, and a Reformed one at that.

Beyond that, however, we do not agree even about how to define the challenge God has placed before the church. Many conservatives think that God wants us to hold the line, to keep traditional (they would say biblical) rules of sexual conduct firmly in place. I think that God is doing something different: expanding the church’s understanding, not of sex in the first instance, but of a deep and pervasive biblical theme, hesed, loyal love. I think that God is teaching this church, chiefly through the impressive testimony of GLBT Presbyterians, that to love another person with one’s whole being and to pledge one’s life for that person’s welfare is not a sin. Far from it: Such acts of self-giving love are channels through which grace can and regularly does flow—in no way they should disqualify people for church leadership. On this issue, we really are strangers, far apart and mystified about each other’s outlook and convictions.

Our side doesn’t have to agree with conservatives about what God is seeking to change or redirect or squelch—namely, all same-sex impulses—or about who is first in line for change. (I suspect that God’s priority is the privileged and powerful.) But we can stand our ground on these points and still let the evangelicals help us balance our word to the church: inclusion and acceptance, but also metanoia and new life. Who knows? If evangelicals listen intently to the testimony of faithful GLBT persons, and if our side accepts evangelicals’ prompting to admit our need and desire to be renewed, maybe we can strive together for a church as just and generous—and holy—as God’s grace.

3) The last and most critical reason for all of us Presbyterian strangers to struggle through our disagreements is to show the world that there are alternatives to killing each other over differences. As long as we continue to club the other Presbyterians into submission with constitutional amendments, judicial cases, and economic boycotts, we have no word for a world full of murderous divisions, most of them cloaked in religion.

In 1869, the two Presbyterian denominations formed in the bitter split 40 years before came back together. Seeking, said their reunion plan, to create a church marked by "diversity and harmony, liberty and love," both assemblies met in Pittsburgh, in separate halls from which their members marched to opposite sides of a broad avenue. Their moderators and clerks then stepped into the street and met in the middle. They "clasped hands," according to a contemporary account, "and amidst welcomes, thanksgivings, and tears, they locked arms and stood together in their reformed relations."

It was a powerful moment, but I can imagine a more powerful witness. We could skip the split. We Presbyterians, who share so much—a confession of faith, a rich theological heritage, the advantages and the burdens of wealth and social power—could covenant to stay together in our reformed relations, to labor with each other, in love, for justice and truth. It would be very arduous and painful, much more so than splitting or drifting apart. It would be worth it. The world would take note of what the gospel makes possible for those who confess their dis-ease with each other and their displacement by each other but still keep on going, strangers locked in covenant, toward the better country of diversity and harmony, liberty and love.

It is, of course, a long trip. We have only glimpsed what that better country might be like. But God, it says in Hebrews, was not ashamed to be called the God of those who stepped out in faith. Indeed, God has prepared a city for them. God has prepared a city for us strange Presbyterians and for all the other foreigners God loves. I pray that with God’s help, we will get there together.

Barbara G. Wheeler is president of Auburn Theological Seminary in New York City. This article is adapted from a presentation at the Covenant Network of Presbyterians national conference held in November in Washington, D.C.

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=magazine.article&issue=soj0402&article=040210b
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun May 05th 2024, 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC