Could Frist be taking the fall on this for Bush?

[HockeyMom]

Frist comes out in support of stem cell research. He works to convince a few more fence sitters. Bush vetoes this and saves face with his Fundie base. Yet, because of Frist, there are now enough votes to override it.

Could this have been the plan all along? I just don't trust any of them, including the man at the top too.

[NewJeffCT]

1. Frist has seen the polls

and a large majority of Americans favor stem-cell research, if I'm not mistaken... so, he is pandering to the middle already.

[Zorbuddha]

2. I think you pegged it

It sure has that stink.

[VPStoltz]

15. CNN said so itself

The truth patrol at CNN say as much. Frist had to told tight during the election so as not to "embarrass" that ass in the WH. Now they try to make Frist look all good by saying he had to vote his conscience. Bullshit.

[WCGreen]

23. CNn and Truth....

Those two words shouldn't be anywhere near each other....

[DanCa]

3. What you said makes alot of sense.

I just can't believe that all my lobbying efforts are starting to pay off. Especially in a conservative congress. Hell you should hear the names the fruit cakes call me. Everything from embryo farmer to toddler killer. Hope is a very powerful thing I am just concernced that this isn't some kind of cruel republican trick.

[beam me up scottie]

4. Frist is looking at a run for the White House in 08.

He's not stupid.
This is not about morality, it's about his political future.
Frist does nothing for anyone but himself.
His entire family is the same way.

[DanCa]

9. Maybe Frist wants to get back in the lab

And wants to get his hands back on some kittens?

[beam me up scottie]

11. He's a an heir to a multi-million dollar

medical corporation, he probably buys babies now.

You know this guy, do you think he'd take a fall for anyone?

He's much more focused and driven than people think, which makes him very dangerous.

[abluelady]

22. A Multi-Million Dollar Medical Corporation that performs ABORTIONS!

[ellenfl]

5. that's been my take on it. i think he got

a big promise from bushco, altho' i don't know how they can back frist AND mccain!

ellen fl

[Coastie for Truth]

6. Frist is a multi-millionaire

his family owns HCA HealthCare America - a massive HMO chain. He is sitting on pharmaceutical and medical device stocks that would choke a horse. Why do the research in Europe or Asia and pay royalties to European and Asian drug companies -- when you can do the research in the US -- and collect royalties. Especially when the Frist family is a major stockholder.

Second point - this may be a reach to "pro stem cell research" Repugs (about 1/2 of the GOP) -- and if he gets the GOP nomination where are the Rapture Right Fundies going to go (not the Dems who sat on their hands in 1968 because Humphrey wasn't antiwar enough; not like the Dems who voted for Nader in 2000 as a "protest").

[marbuc]

7. Why would Bush need to save face with the fundie base?

Is he falling on his sword (or cross, as the case may be) for his brother Jeb? I think Frist realizes he needs the votes of rational people if he has any hope of being president. The fact that he came off looking like an idiot in the Schiavo case, not to mention his Justice Sunday blunder, probably contributed to his change of heart.

[personman]

21. Because most people are pro stem cell research

and his approval is very low. He just can't go back on that now and embrace stem cell research to make the people happy, or he'll piss off the fundies. If he vetos stem cell research, his approval will probably drop a lot further and people will blame him for stopping stem cell research (and rightly so). So by having Frist turn around and help push the vote beyond veto, he can come off as not having flip flopped with his fundies, and avoid everyone else hating him even more for blocking stem cell research.

[marbuc]

25. Not vetoing the bill would not constitute much of a "flip flop"

He could let the bill pass with his objection, citing a respect for congressional will (as a previous poster suggested). Since he is not running for reelection, he does not have to pander to the fundie base.

[bunny planet]

8. Yup.

I said the same in another thread earlier today in a slightly differnent way. I'd post it here, but I'm too sleepy to go find it.

Oh ok here it is:
'm suspicious of anything Frist does that goes against the Blivet. I


Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 12:17 PM by bunny planet

I think Frist has *'s blessing to do this. Bush doesn't really believe in the pro-life agenda, or in the stem-cell debate connected to it. He just says he does to pacify his fundaholic base. Frist's influence to secure the Senate's vote for stem-cell research expansion gives Jr. an out. He has already gone on record threatening to veto it, but now he can say that he has to respect the will of the Senate on this one, since Fristula is a noble 'pro-life' doctor and all who he has the highest regard for, blah, blah, blah. This accomplishes two things, it gets * out of hot water looking like a fool vetoeing a very popular bill, it also gives Spector what he wants, and that will be rewarded with an easy confirmation for Roberts, since Spector is the head of the judiciary committee, has Cancer and has publicly stated he will fight tooth and nail for the stem cell bill. It's I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine politics at his finest. The fundaholics may still be angry but there are a lot more people on the fence who do support the stem cell bill so the religious wrong is expendable on this issue. It also looks as if His Fraudulency has fought it the best he could but he didn't want to trample on our beloved checks and balances by having this be his first vetoed bill. It's a crock and it's just my opinion but I think that's about right. Also, it is true, they are grooming Frist to be the nominee. Too bad, he'll need a soul and a charisma transplant first.

[leesa]

10. Or just another distraction. They could play this up a lot and get a lot

their base fired up. They would forget all about Rove and Scooter and DSM and crooked Supreme Court nominees...

[A Brand New World]

12. Yes - he'll definitely need a soul and charisma transplant. He is so

dead and personality deficient that I really think he's a corpse. Maybe he inhaled too much formaldyhyde in med school!

[AtomicKitten]

13. I'm always suspicious

It's hard for me to believe that ANY Repub would break with the fascists in the WH on ANY issue. Frist could be (1) running for president knowing more Americans support stem cell research, (2) covering his butt after his Schiavo pseudodiagnosis, or (3) creating more subterfuge to put the CIA leak off the radar completely. Or all three. I just don't trust those bastards.

[ginnyinWI]

14. No

What majority leader of the Senate would take a fall for a lame duck president who has a 41% approval rating. He'd be more likely to want to distance himself from the smell.

Don't give these guys too much credit. Rove is overrated.

[NativeTexan]

16. I Agree

Hell he is trying to move himself more toward the middle for his White House run.

Of course, that means, so far, that he has moved from the Facist Right-Wing Extremist hard right to the Facist Right-Wing Extremist NEARLY hard right.

He doesn't have enough time between now and 2008 to FIND the overall political middle.

[ginnyinWI]

17. lol!

So true. I'm not worried about him. And that Schiavo case damaged him permanently IMO. People remember something like that.

[skids]

18. I hesistate to even suggest this...

...but what if it was a quid-pro-quo deal from the CAFTA arm-twisting?

Maybe by a republican, maybe by a dem. The latter of which is the part I hesitate to suggest.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[personman]

20. That's kinda what I was thinking.

I mentioned something similar in a thread yesterday. It's the only way I can really make any sense of it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1968606&mesg_id=1968781

[mopinko]

24. stem cells = money for big pharma

that whole "these lines are already here, you can use them and no more" always looked to me like handing a monopoly to the owners of those lines. but they have not panned out, big pharma wants government handouts to do this research. so, now they shift their "reasoning". it's about money, period.

[Czolgosz]

26. I think the Frist flip flop is related to Rove. Rove has been the most

successful builder of the Republican pro-corporate/anti-choice coalition. For Rove, this coalition is the key to a Republican majority.

The Rove coalition is based on the belief that (1) pro-corporate types are essentially one-theme voters who will vote Republican so long as the party is anti-regulation, anti-consumers' rights, anti-corporate tax, anti-labor, etc. and that those voters do not vote based on any social issues even if the party promotes a social agenda they do not agree with and (2) anti-choice types are essentially one-theme voters who will vote Republican so long as the party is anti-choice, anti-stem cell research, anti-civil union, anti-sex education etc. and that those voters do not vote based on any economic issues even if the party works against their economic self-interest.

This has been Rove's formula since * took on Gov. Ann Richards in Texas.

Until now, Frist has been completely loyal to Rove's strategy. I think Frist's departure from the Rove formula reflects one of two likely scenarios: either (1) Frist has decided that Rove is politically finished as a result of PlameGate or (2) Rove -- who had been said to favor Frist or Jeb for the '08 nomination -- has chosen Jeb and Frist has decided to re-position himself for a run to the left of Jeb in the '08 primary.

What do you think?