Only 3 Democratic CAFTA traitors were DLC right??......WRONG!

[bvar22]

Only 3 of the ANTI-Working Class Democrats are officially listed as "Official Members" on the DLC Public Roster, but if you do a little digging on DLC official Website, you will find that the DLC claims an ADDITIONAL 6 of the CADFTA traitors as members of the New Democrats (a wholly owned subsidiary of the DLC. In fact, they ARE the SAME.)
That makes 9 "official" members of the DLC who sold out the American Worker.
There is ONE more (Jim Cooper, TN) who is not mentioned as a "member" but is referenced enough to indicate support and ties with the DLC.
TWO more have 2 or less mentions and appear to have little to do with the DLC.



Here are the 3 that the DLC officially owns:

Gregory Meeks, U.S. Representative, NY
PatHenry Rating -10

Dennis Moore, U.S. Representative, KS
PatHenry Rating -20

Vic Snyder, United States Representative, AR
PatHenry rating 0





Some Democrats are "wising up" and have come to realize that official public ties to the DLC may NOT be such a good thing, and have not been listed on the "official" public membership roster. Here are the additional 6 that the DLC claim as members on the official DLC Website:

Rep. Jim Moran, Va
Listed in a Featured announcement on the DLC website as a New Leader of the New Democrats House Coalition for the 109th Congress
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253190&kaid=103&subid=110

Jim Moran was featured in articles ALL OVER the DLC Website.
87 separate mentions. This guy is dirty even if he isn’t listed as an “official” DLC member.
PatHenry Rating +2.5


Jim Matheson, Ut
Spotlighted in "New Dems of the Week"
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=2843&kaid=127&subid=176
Mentioned prominently and frequently on the official DLC Website.
PatHenry Rating -77.5



Rep John Tanner, TN
“Congressional New Democrats were clearly the decisive factor in the enactment of this legislation. In the House, Reps. Cal Dooley (D-CA), Bill Jefferson (D-LA) and John Tanner (D-TN) negotiated patiently and successfully, to develop a bill reflecting the New Democrat Coalition”
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=250758&kaid=131&subid=192

John Tanner was featured prominently in 16 separate articles on the DLC "official" website.
Pat Henry Rating –72.5



Ruben Hinojosa, Tx
Featured on this list of “New Democrat Leaders” is Ruben Hinojosa ,Tx
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=3785&kaid=106&subid=122
PatHenry Rating -92


Norman D. Dicks (D - WA).
"Led by three DLC stalwarts, Reps. Cal Dooley (CA), Jim Moran (VA), and Tim Roemer (IN), the New Democrat Coalition went public at a Capitol press conference on March 6. Their initial membership is impressive, including twelve members of the Class of 1996 -- probably the strongest freshman Democratic group since 1974 -- and such senior members as Reps. Bob Matsui (CA), Norm Dicks (WA), Charles Stenholm (TX), and John LaFalce (NY)."

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=2552&kaid=103&subid=110
PatHenry +20



Rep. William Jefferson, LA.
…”led in part by the efforts of New Democrat Coalition member Rep. William Jefferson.”

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251108&kaid=103&subid=111
PatHenry Rating –35






The following 3 voted against the American Worker and Middle Class, but are Not mentioned as an "official" members of New Democrats,
but are referenced on the Official DLC Website:


Jim Cooper, TN
While I could’t find a reference to Jim Cooper as a “member” of the DLC/New Dem coalition, he is referenced over 10 times on the website in groups of DLC members, and as signing letters written by the DLC/PPI.
PatHenry –37.5


Edolphus Towns, NY
several mentions, but appears to have no working relationship or support for the DLC.
PatHenry Rating is +45 (?), which isn’t too bad.
Can anyone explain his vote?


Henry Cuellar (D - TX)
Only one reference on the DLC Website directly relating to support of CAFTA.
Not memtioned as a member.
PatHenry Rating WOW -155







The last 3 had No mentions on the DLC Website:

Rep. Solomon Ortiz, TX.
Could find NO mention on the DLC Website
PH –77.5



Rep. Ike Skelton, MO
Could fine NO mention on DLC Website
PatHenry Rating rating embarrassing -132


Rep Melissa Bean, Il
Could find NO mention on DLC Website
PatHenry Rating -100



*This SOLIDLY debunks the LIE that ONLY 3 CAFTA TRAITORS were members of the DLC. The evidenc from the OFFICIAL DLC Website PROVES that at least 9 are ACTIVE and PARTICIPATORY MEMBERS of the DLC!

* You will notice that I included PatrickHenry Ratings for each member. BEFORE you start screaming "Liberal Website" "Voting Records NOT Valid Indicators", take a look at what these seem to indicate.

The 3 who are NOT members of the DLC have embarrassingly abysmal PH Ratings generally WELL BELOW members of the DLC. This may indicate that the DLC is NOT the absolute HARD RIGHT of the Democratic Party. Maybe the LEFT should target these assholes before eliminating the DLC? (I can't believe I just said that).


*Edolphus Towns, NY has a PatHenry rating of +45, does NOT appear to have working ties with the DLC, and yet voted FOR CAFTA. Can anyone explain his vote?


Let the games begin.
I have clearly stated my position, and feel no need to elaborate, defend, explain, extrapolate, or clarify. I have provided PROOF from the DLC itself.

I am tired, and going to bed.
I will not respond to any posts to this thread.

[dave502d]

1. Nice work.thank you.n/t

[The Doctor.]

2. Thank you for running this down...

I'll be moving to Switzerland soon.

[Cha]

3. And they are helping their

constituents how with cafta?

[Starkraven]

4. Good Work!

I hope you don't mind if I copy this and send it out on my E-Mail list. I tried to recommend this thread, but I don't have enough posts.

[Al-CIAda]

5. This work gets a vote. nt

[bornskeptic]

6. Two points

First of all, the official DLC list includes five representatives who voted yes, not three:
Melissa Bean
Gregory Meeks
Dennis Moore
Jim Moran
Vic Snyder

Second, the links you provided to show that Matheson, Tanner, Dicks, Hinojosa, and Jefferson are DLC members all date from 2002 or before. It seems to me that the most likely explanation is that they belonged to the DLC at one time, but are not currently members.

[bvar22]

11. If you go to the "Official" New Dem directory,

and input Melissa Bean or Jim Moran, you will get a return of:
"No Record Found".
http://www.dlc.org/new_dem_dir.cfm

Since I am Using the Most up to date information I can find from the "Official" DLC Website, I could not list Bean and Moran, since the DLC tonight does not acknowledge their membership in their Online Directory.

I AM aware that others have listed them as official members.


Some of the references DO date to 2002. This does not bother me because I stipulated the disclaimer that they were NOT officially listed as members when I presented that information. They are STILL carried on the Official Website without ANY disclaimers or updates. There are many other references to most of these individuals. I was citing ONLY those that specifically state "member". Tomorrow, I will track down and date each individual mention on the DLC website and correlate the dates.

I seriously doubt that ANY of these individuals have had an epiphany or enlightenment and have renounced the Corporate Corruption in the DLC, or have refused to take Corporate money or assistance from the DLC. To my knowledge, none have made any public announcements to that effect. I WILL research this issue tomorrow, and update my post if this is indeed the case.


Thanks for your input. I take the accusations I made seriously, and wish to support them with VERIFIABLE facts ONLY.

[bornskeptic]

29. I'm not trying to be difficult,

but when I searched for Melissa Bean and Jim Moran, I got
Melissa Bean, United States Representative, IL
and
Jim Moran, U.S. Representative, VA .
I also found their names by selecting "House New Democrat Coalition."

Brian Baird, U.S. Representative, WA
Melissa Bean, United States Representative, IL
Shelley Berkley, U.S. Representative, NV
Lois Capps, U.S. Representative, CA
Russ Carnahan, U.S. Representative, MO
Ed Case, U.S. Representative, HI
Ben Chandler, U.S. Representative, KY
Joseph Crowley, U.S. Representative, NY
Jim Davis, U.S. Representative, FL
Susan Davis, U.S. Representative, CA
Artur Davis, U.S. Representative, AL
Rahm Emanuel, U.S. Representative, IL
Eliot Engel, U.S. Representative, NY
Bob Etheridge, U.S. Representative, NC
Harold Ford, Jr. , U.S. Representative, TN
Charlie Gonzalez, United States Representative, TX
Jane Harman, U.S. Representative, CA
Stephanie Herseth, U.S. Representative, SD
Brian Higgins, U.S. Representative, NY
Rush Holt, U.S. Representative, NJ
Darlene Hooley, U.S. Representative, OR
Jay Inslee, U.S. Representative, WA
Steve Israel, U.S. Representative, NY
Ron Kind, U.S. Representative, WI
Rick Larsen, U.S. Representative, WA
John Larson, U.S. Representative, CT
Carolyn McCarthy, U.S. Representative, NY
Mike McIntyre, U.S. Representative, NC
Gregory Meeks, U.S. Representative, NY
Charlie Melancon, United States Representative, LA
Juanita Millender-McDonald, U.S. Representative, CA
Dennis Moore, U.S. Representative, KS
Jim Moran, U.S. Representative, VA
David Price, U.S. Representative, NC
Loretta Sanchez, U.S. Representative, CA
Adam B. Schiff, U.S. Representative, CA
Allyson Schwartz, U.S. Representative, PA
David Scott, U.S. Representative, GA
Adam Smith, U.S. Representative, WA
Vic Snyder, United States Representative, AR
Ellen Tauscher, U.S. Representative, CA
Tom Udall, U.S. Representative, NM
David Wu, U.S. Representative, OR

As for the other point, I prefer to evaluate politicians by how they vote rather than what organizations they belong to.

[bvar22]

30. Thanks. You are correct and I have amended my data.

I returned to NDOL today, and those 2 do indeed show up on the "official" roster. They did NOT when I assembled my data, and again when I returned to NDOL to check before responding to your first post.


10 of the original 15 CAFTA Democratic Defectors are cited as being "Members of the DLC" by the official DLC Website.


As for the voting records, while they can be a useful source of information, if they are not weighted for the importance of the vote, then they can be very misleading. After a bill has enough votes to pass, the remaining votes are meaningless, and (as in the CAFTA vote) our legislators can Cover their Ass with a Throw Away Meaningless Vote and still pick up their Corporate bribe money.
Vote Trading is REAL, and happens every day in DC and our State Governments.
Citing voting records can provide a non-legitimate defense of some by saying, "Well Gee, look at their voting record. Except for that Bankruptcy Vote,he doesn't look so bad." When, in fact, he IS that bad.

The practical realities of our government DO dictate that successful politicians form alliances and seek election help from wherever they can get it. The DLC is the source of Corporate Funds for the Democratic Party. Some may seek their support during campaign thinking that they can distance themselves after election, but doing business with the DLC is like doing business with the Mafia. They NEVER let you go. Look back at the Clinton presidency in this light. His HealthReform Bill (hated by DLC), and impeachment, and ultimately, his support for the Welfare Reform Bill(a centerpiece of the DLC since 1992) which Bill was forced to trade for support from the DLC during impeachment.

John Kerry's DLC membership also strikes me as non-typical. As a man and a Senator he is much more Liberal than the Platform he ran on in 2004, but he needed them for the Primary run after Lieberman dropped out and Gore endorsed Dean. The DLC used their Corporate Media Connections to torpedo Dean for Kerry, and then saddled Kerry with a Pro-Corporate DLC written Platform (Did you EVER think Kerry looked comfortable with his DLC saddle?...And Gore, he was ecstatic at being able to get out from under the DLC Platform after his loss. He showed the nation what he thought of the DLC by endorsing the Anti-DLC candidate in the primaries.


Anyway, thanks for the data.
It is ultimately the unemotional facts that provide the best forensic analysis of a crime.

[LittleClarkie]

12. Are you now or have you ever been...

a New Democrat!?

I'm waiting for someone to claim Obama is DLC because his name was on there for a while. He had to ask to have it removed, as he'd never give permission in the first place. It has been said, here at some point, that the New Dems do that, claim folks as their own to inflate their numbers, folks who never gave permission to be put on the list in the first place.

So I'd be wary of the "are you now or have you ever been". It could be misleading. Old lists shouldn't count. If they're not now, then they had a parting of the ways.

[bvar22]

28. Cute.

You always DO make me smile.
Your oblique reference to the McCarthy Witchhunt was cute, but not applicable.

The McCarthy witch hunts were an investigation without a crime.

What happened on Tuesday Night WAS a crime. Investigation to determine the Motive (Corporate money), and the guilty Parties and their accomplices are entirely appropriate.
I will gather all the forensic evidence I can, and examine all the data available. If I had the power to subpoena the Financial Records of those involved, I would.

The biggest crime is that WE have allowed our system (however flawed) that was designed to represent the Will of the People to be co-opted and corrupted by the powers that Dwight Eisenhower (among others) warned us about.
:patriot:


Since the source of the corruption is Corporate Cash, it is only logical to examine the structure that was designed and instituted to funnel Corporate Cash into the Democratic Party, the DLC.

[MelissaB]

7. Thanks for the research!

:kick:

[SlowDownFast]

8. was never a doubt in my mind.

Phuck the DLC!!!

[Tommymac]

9. Good Job bvar!

Thanks!:patriot:

[sandnsea]

10. Tauscher, Kind, Davis Smith

2005 New Democrat leaders. Who didn't vote for CAFTA. Pretty lousy organization if the leaders won't even vote right. There's 40 members in the House, what happened to the rest of them? If it's all about the DLC.

[LoZoccolo]

13. Fuck does it matter, geez.

Every vote is what it is, why try to cram a square peg into a round hole just to make it fit into some imagined battle between good and evil with the DLC on the evil side.

[Al-CIAda]

14. If 60% of 'yes' votes came from a group that represents maybe

10% of the party, I think its worthy of note - especially on such an important matter. I have no doubt that if more votes were needed a few more corpratists would vote yes. They knew it would be close and contentious, but they also only needed to expose 9 to criticism to get their desired result. Its a game of perceptions. These guys will have to find a CYA vote to cover up this vote, but other DLCers who voted against CAFTA will take their turn to step up for the corporations.

[LittleClarkie]

15. Is this post sarcastic as well

Else why are you feeding the strife with your latest "Yeah, DLC" thread.

You're about to make me legally insane, just so you know. (at least partially hormonally induced mind you, but still)

We don't fucking need it. I'm much more interested in what Bush is doing. I keep thinking back on what could have been if we could have gotten the motherfucker out of office. Some call Kerry DLC, but he would have been so much better than what we have now.

Sorry, for some reason I can't stop crying tonight.

[LoZoccolo]

16. The other post is sarcastic, but I think I make a good point in this one.

People are just trying to squeeze this into an existing framework of them vs. the DLC, and I'm saying, that's a stretch, and not a useful way of thinking about it anyways. It doesn't do anything, except maybe feed their personal cause of trying to drum up opposition to the DLC (even where it doesn't fit).

Actually, you could say this is related to the other one, in that these people who are so against the DLC are telling the same joke over and over again...they take every issue and try to make it something about the DLC, even if it's not.

[LittleClarkie]

17. You ARE making a good point here

You're making me want to strangle you there.

[expatriot]

20. yes... it is an over-simplistic formula that isn't helping.

there are many intertwining, complex issues involved in these issues and it's not as simple as "the DLC is a bunch of Bushie traitors and only if we got rid of them things would be better." People like to make things black and white, good and evil... instead of taking a hard look at the big picture and seeing why things are the way they are and how can we go about to affect the change we want and what will be the obstacles and potential drawbacks, etc. I don't even pretend to have the answers but I just wish we spent more time dealing with the questions other than just pointing fingers and going on witch hunts and blaming all of our problems on heretics to the revolution within our camp.

[PATRICK]

18. A big question

Well, how about the rest of the DLC members and whether the blandly circumspect agenda includes CAFTA of CAFTA in another form or CAFTA with flaws but tepid bowing to the inevitable? It is like trying to nail a squid since it is hard to find anything controversial that the DLC has a clear stand on.

So does the DLC have a better version of CAFTA that allows this "pragmatic" bipartisan Frankenstein in even though there is no Bill Clinton to save it in any way whatsoever?

One poster mentioned they possibly let enough people desert the party for corporate reasons which might also be translated as DLC pols having other concerns naturally- like money, corporate agendas etc.

But what does this say about the vast majority of the party who not only voted against CAFTA but are very angry at this minority defection? How is exactly a Democratic Leadership issue and not a fringe traitor issue?

Or would the DLC like to denounce this partycide some of their members are engaging in?

Why can't they(DLC organizational honchos) simply be confronted with the question? Make them take a stand for something other than progressive bashing. That would be a good product of this otherwise idle speculation.

[expatriot]

19. are you telling me that most of the Dems who voted for CAFTA

are somehow affiliated with a group of elected Democrats that support such free trade agreements?!? **gasp** Listen, I am against CAFTA also but if you want to rid the party of people who support evil free trade agreements then support primary candidates who are against them (evil free trade agreeements) and also elect delegates to attend your party conventions to put it in the platform, that those who support evil free trade agreements are not welcome in the Democratic Party.

[bvar22]

27. Worse than that. I am telling you that...

...some of the Dems who voted AGAINST CAFTA are dirty, and on the payroll of the Big Corporations. Once sufficient votes were collected to ensure passage, some of the guilty were able to Cover their Ass with meaningless throw away votes AGAINST so that they could say, "SEE! I'm for the People". The Corporate financiers of the DLC don't require that every member on their handout list vote for Pro-Corporate legislation EVERY SINGLE TIME. They only require that Pro-Corporate legislation PASS every single time!


You are right to point out that the main front of this war should be fought in the Primaries, but that doesn't mean that we must ignore the problem until then.
The problem must be identified and examined.
Investigation, gathering of evidence, compilation and collating of data must be undertaken to determine how deep the cancer runs.
This will also put them on notice that the kind of behavior displayed on Tuesday night by the party that is supposed to represent us WILL NOT BE TOLERATED by those of us who LOVE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!.

I would like to treat Tuesday night as a crime (It was). I want to collect all the forensic data available, and identify ALL the guilty parties and accomplices. AND, I want them to know that WE are watching them!

[slay]

21. The DLC = Republicans in Democrat's clothing

Might as well for all the good they do us. Right Lieberman? Enjoy that big kiss Bush gave you after his state of the union speech earlier this year? Sheesh. It's bad enough we've got to fend off the Republicans - having the DLC help them out makes the job the rest of us Dems have that much harder. Grr. :mad:

[DaveinMD]

22. 100 percent of Republicans voting for CAFTA

are members of the Republican Party. Why don't we go after them.

[Douglas Carpenter]

24. excellent research

yes--there were 27 Republicans who voted against it. It is shame when members of the Democratic Party behave this way.

Such people are not serious about building a progressive majority

[Connie_Corleone]

23. And more DLC members voted against CAFTA.

What's your point?

[bvar22]

25. The fact that "more voted against" is irrelevant.

The fact that JUST ENOUGH voted FOR CAFTA is the only relevant factor. After enough votes were collected to pass this abomination, the rest of the votes were immaterial Throw Aways. Congressmen and Senators use throw aways to Cover their Asses. They get to go home and say, "SEE! I voted against CAFTA. I'm for the People." (much like you just did).

What they don't tell you is that their vote AGAINST CAFTA was absolutely immaterial since CAFTA was already LAW. The DLC doesn't require ALL members vote Pro-Corporate EVERY SINGLE TIME. They are not stupid. They only require that Pro-Corporate legislation PASSES every single time. Members are free to Cover their ASSES after that, and will rotate out so that no single member draws too much heat.

Can you cite an occasion where Pro-Corporate/Anti-Worker legislation (no matter how bad) has been defeated since the Reagan administration? GOSH! Those bastards win EVERY SINGLE TIME, and always by a cliff hanger!

In 1992, Bill Clinton pushed for a HealthCare that would have helped the Middle Class. HIS OWN PARTY (in the majority at that time) under the leadership of the DLC ROSE UP TO DEFEAT the HealthCare Package (IIRC, cliff hanger, just enough)

That is the only Pro-Worker/Pro-Middle Class legislation that has even made it to a vote in the last 25 years.
Surely I must be wrong about this. Can ANYONE cite any piece of Pro-Worker/Pro-Middle Class legislation that has made it to the floor in the last 25 years?

[bloom]

26. Thanks

It's good to dissect these things.

It could be that the 3 non-DLC are essentially Republicans and the Democrat title was just the easy thing to call themselves to get elected. They could be getting paid off to vote the ways they do. It could be that they have a messed up idea about what Democrats are - maybe they just need some education. :)

[Kolesar]

31. Trade-ors!