I'm Switching CAUSE YOU WON'T FIGHT!!

[ChiciB1]

I plan to email or write EVERY Democratic member of the House and EVERY Democratic Senator and let them know why I want to GO GREEN!!

CAFTA was the last straw. Been a Liberal Democrat since FOREVER, but I say more and more almost DAILY that... I'm Sick & Tired AND Tired & Sick of the shit that has been going on in D.C.

With the exception of a few, our leaders are letting us down!!

I'm going to be away from D.U. for a while, have an errand to run, but would like some feed-back here.

Thank you...

[Skinner]

1. Here's some feedback.

You're welcome to go Green. Just as long as you understand that this is not the website to do it.

[rockymountaindem]

2. Way to lay down the law.

:thumbsup:

[Corey_Baker08]

55. wrong post...nt

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

3. Advice:

A quarter ream of paper and a pen. And a back-up pen. And a penetrating oil for the writer's cramp. And a knowing look for those who ask you "What did you accomplish?"





P.S. Stamps are helpful.

[ChiciB1]

4. I Don't Think I'll Accomplish Much...

but I'm not accomplishing anything now.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

10. I've fired off missives to my Congresscritter.

May yours be more successful.

[Q]

5. It's probably true that many Dems have THOUGHT ABOUT...

...switching since 2000. But most understand that the Dem party is the only game in town.

If you do decide to 'leave the party'...then go independent and vote selectively for progressive Democratic candidates.

Besides...let's not make it easier for conservatives to take over the party. Stay and fight.

[leanin_green]

68. I hear ya Q. . .thus my name.

I'm only "leanin-green." I won't give my party over to a bunch of Republican infiltrators(insert DLC)and weak kneed Pollyanna's. I'm staying a Democrat and giving my own hell for being cowardly in the face of enemy fire. I think they call that desertion don't they?

[ClassWarrior]

6. I'm staying cause you're bailing.

Some of us are strong enough to take the heat. Don't worry, we'll pick up your slack.

NGU.

[ChiciB1]

8. Well, I AM Going To D.C. On sept. 24th...

My views remain the same and I'll still fight just as hard. I don't know what else to do.

[ClassWarrior]

9. Stay with us. We need your fight. Especially at times like this.

Don't let the Radical RW divide us further.

NGU.

[Nikki Stone 1]

13. I agree, though I certainly understand your disgust with the 15 Dems

who voted for CAFTA in the House vote. But over 90% of the Dems voted the right way. Don't let this 90% down.

[sandnsea]

23. We need to be divided

A clear line between Green and Democrat would be outstanding. It is exactly what we need. It would give a strong voice for further left policies, but allow people to differentiate Democrats from the "loony left". It's exactly what we need, as long as the Greens focus on what they're FOR instead of beating down the Democrats.

[Lecky]

27. Yeah but I don't see Greens doing that since they compete with Dems for

votes.

I agree with most of their platform but I would never vote Green just because as long as we have a 2 party system they don't have a chance in Hell of ever beating a Republican.

I don't care what anyone says, there IS a difference between Democrats and Republicans...you'd think that would register with some especially after experiencing 5 years of this nightmare administration.

There will always be those Democrats that fall somewhere in the center, I'm not going to punish the whole party because of them.

Democrats will always have "DINO's"
Republicans will always have "RINO's"

Maybe I'd consider voting 3rd party if my country wasn't being run in the ground by neocon hustlers.

[sandnsea]

33. Yes, and a difference between Dems & Greens

The only way America is ever going to hear the difference is if the Greens start advocating for their platform instead of bashing the rest of the country. And America desperately needs to hear the difference.

[back2basics909]

17. I share your frustration...

.. i really do. Some days I am as angry with the Dems as I am with the GOP. But the sad fact is unless we want another 4 years of the neo-cons we have little choice. Even then will we see the Democrats leading a debate about election reform? Make it an even playing field, so a third party is a real option?

I don't think they will. A third party could take away from their base just as much as it could from the GOP.

Will they go for election reform and paper ballots and a consistent and stringent legal framework nation wide?

I would hope they would.

And they would balance the budget and behave a little more like adults who care about this country and its future in the World.

They are certainly not what this country deserves, its deserves much better, but it is the lesser of two evils.

If they can open up a national debate on what has been happening for the past several years. If they can bring the nation back together. Using a positive view of the future, not cynical manipulative techniques, that would be fantastic as well. And they are the only party that stands a chance in hell of making that happen.

Your vote is a vote taken away from the democrats and added to another party. You have to remember, it is much more than a protest.

[ChiciB1]

19. I Remember... I LIVE In Florida!

What's more, I live in a world called The Trifecta of Disaster! An Idiot In The WH, Another Evil One in The Governor's Mansion, and of course the Darlings of All Darlings... Cruella, the one and only Katherine Harris as my Representative!

How does that make YOU feel??

[Cha]

20. I feel your pain..it's cruel and unusual

punishment.

Hang in there tough guy :)

And thanks for all your activism. I don't what makes these dems(?) do the shit they do?

[bunny planet]

7. Gee, that'll be helpful.

[drfunk]

12. it's not because of RW

but a failure of certain democrats on capitol hill who dont share the same values as us and continually let us down by caving in or going ahead with awful legislation like CAFTA.

[ClassWarrior]

15. Yeah, like those "certain democrats" aren't a fifth column attack.

We just need to work to replace them - and we've only BEGUN to succeed in that area.

NGU.

[LittleClarkie]

16. But certain Dems aren't most Dems

the majority of Dems voted against CAFTA. So a majority of the party agrees with you.

Why would this vote be a reason to leave the party? If most of the Dems voted FOR Cafta I could understand. But they didn't.

[ChiciB1]

21. Perhaps I've Been Watching Too Much Alternative TV!

Their news infuriates me because I know they are reporting the truth! My husband said to me tonight, aren't there LAWS that they have to comply with? That was a laugh!

Of course there are laws, but the parsing and the blame game is truly getting me down. I didn't think about the Independents, but that's an option that could work. But living in Florida you have to designate a Party to vote in Primaries.

And of course, it's not just CAFTA... what progress has been made with Tom DeLay, DSM and NOW Rover and the gang?? He won't go anywhere, and he got a RAISE!!!

This is just too much!

[bunny planet]

18. I'm just as frustrated as you with the DINO's that have abandoned us so

many times. The thing to do is find progressive Dems to replace them with, or be a Progressive Dem to replace them with. Not easy, I know, but necessary. Stay in the party and fight.

I'm a yellow dawg Democrat myself.

[LittleClarkie]

11. Bye

Seriously.

I hope you mean it, and aren't just playing "dramatic exit" games. Because I for one am not going to chase after you shouting "No! Don't go!"

If you really feel that way, then I think you seriously should go. Go where you can work positively, rather than rant negatively. Go where you feel you fit in.

As for me, I just got here. I'll work positively in the Dem Party. You work positively in the Green Party, and maybe both of us will be able to effect change.

But just as I never believed in campaigning against Bush and not FOR Kerry, I think that the most effective way is to work for something rather than against something else. Negative campaigning rarely works, you know?

on edit: btw, most Dems didn't vote for CAFTA, just a few Benedict Arnolds. But it was enough in a Repub Congress. Why not aim your ire at the folks who deserve it, the Repubs?

[Lecky]

28. You know what...that's the response I'm going to start using from now on

"bye"

The last thing the Democrats AND our country need right now is unproductive negativity. It only brings us down, THAT'S ALL IT DOES. If someone has lost all faith in our party and doesn't think there is any hope...we don't need you. We've got enough to worry about and lots of work to do.

I understand the frustration over CAFTA and I know there are lots of other Democrats in Congress who feel the same. In fact, I know that the majority of Democrats DO.

So I think the constant complainers and Democrat-bashers SHOULD go vote for Green if they really think that's going to make a difference, good luck!

[Eloriel]

70. Yeah, llike "bye" isn't unproductive

not to mention negative. :eyes:

Here's a person -- actually MANY people, she just happened to be the one speaking up right now -- who is fed up to here with feeling betrayed and NOT represented in Washington (and we're talking repeatedly and for years, not just with one vote or even one issue), and you want to help her feel even more isolated, alone, unheard, unrepresented, and completely unappreciated as a voter. Got it.

Yeah, that works. :eyes:

[kansasblue]

14. hang in there ChiciB1 !

I know how you feel. After the election I was furious the Dems didn't fight the fraud harder. The Greens did a better job. But know that just as some Republican are good guys, there are lots of good Dems that are as pissed as you over CAFTA. Pelosi is pissed and is reviewing committee assignment for the Dems that jumped ship. Stay with us. Stay with us that fight. We know the good ones, and we'll support them.

[sandnsea]

22. When will Greens build their party

For the love of everything green and holy, will the Greens please please please build their party. There is no better way to define the difference and promote further left policies than with a strong Green Party. Stop bitching at Democrats and define yourselves as GREEN.

[wyldwolf]

24. that's the LAST thing those that threaten to go Green want...

...'cause then they won't have an excuse NOT to leave after their temper tantrums.

[Lecky]

25. How about send an email to the Democrats who actually voted for CAFTA

Or does that just make too much sense?

[bvar22]

26. Before bailing and 'going Green", stop here first.

http://pdamerica.org/index.php

There are still some REAL Democrats in the Democratic party.


If you can't conscientiously support Democrats who endorse the useless slaughter in Iraq, support the Democrats who are against it! Send your support money directly to these Democrats.

http://pdamerica.org/index.php

[deutsey]

29. I registered as a Green after 2004

It's a form of protest over what you express here and, honestly, the Green Party is more reflective (and unashamedly supportive) of my interests and views. I've been a lifelong Democrat (registered in '84 and voted for the first time for Mondale--or, actually, against Reagan), but after Kerry's early capitulation in 2004 I just couldn't remain with the Party anymore.

With that said, I still intend to vote for progressive Democrats when I have the opportunity and encourage you to do the same regardless what you choose. Perhaps I'm really an Independent in the Bernie Sanders style (I am a Democratic Socialist like he is), but "Independent", to me, has too many Perot connotations.

Party affiliation, for me, is a matter of personal conscience, so I'm not going to tell you what you should or shouldn't do. For me, the Green Party is truer to my political and activist identity than the Dems are. I'm more of a non-heirarchical, grassroots activist and my experience with the Democratic apparatus has time and again shown me that that's not the way the Dems define themselves. So be it. I harbor no anger toward them; I just realize I'm not one of them anymore (and I've been a Dem activist for some time, so this isn't a flip decision).

For what it's worth.

[Diogian]

30. I'm with you Chici

I hear you Chici. Not one more damn dime to them.
Two donations so far this year but, not one more damn dime.
Snide, well worded insinuations about me won't change my mind.

Greens should not be threatened on this site!?!
They should be welcomed!!!
Possibly even actively recruited (What a thought, eh?).
Definately NOT threatened with banishment or reprisals or subject to snide little insinuations and insults.


I saw the Cafta news and came to DU thinking this place would be boiling mad (as I am).
But - No - Even here, there is repression -or a form of pressure- to only respond in a certain manner on a certain day and do it 'in a certain way'. Just sorta take the rage and turn it into a conversation about the many qualities of pocket lint. Make it quietly go away...

Phuck that. They blew it. I am beyond 'pissed off'.

Not one more damn dime from me.
In Fact: The money I was going to send to them, I'm now going to send to the 'green' party!
I vote with my wallet. And Yes, This was the final straw for me, and you can bet your ass that there are plenty more just like us.

[ChiciB1]

35. Thank You...

I didn't want to start a word fight, but felt maybe it would happen. I see many here think I want tea & sympathy, but that's really not it. As I said, I still have the same views as I've always had. I also think that it would be wise to have a convergence with the Greens. I've talked with quite a few lately and Dems & Greens are like-minded.

I also feel that many Greens would vote Democratic if it means ridding ourselves of "the corrupt ones"! They are just as mad. I don't want to be harsh about the grass roots of the Democratic Party, it's the leadership that has let me down. And maybe because the Greens know they aren't ever considered a contender, it's easier that way. I'm not sure.

But if we are going to keep on having a 2 party system, then the leadership of each party should listen to their own base. I don't know what has gone so wrong, and it could all simply be MONEY in the end. The media seems to have been bought. Democrats don't need a few squeaky mice, they need a couple of lions!

And no, there probably isn't a well defined lion with the Greens, but how could there be?? It's basically the same with Independents, but the Greens do have a certain viewpoint and agenda and it's a lot like the Democrats. At least the ones I've met do.

So if by changing, I'm no longer welcome here I'm sure I would be losing a lot. This isn't something that comes easy at all. I've been a life-long Democrat and we are talking a very long time. Democrats have always had a "big tent", but that's people like you and I. It's in my blood. I've visited here a lot to vent my frustrations, but I think it was yesterday that someone was talking about her close friend and how they talked politics all the time. then they didn't talk much anymore and it was found out that the other party simply said "it's over"!

I just wonder what progress is being made. You next question would be what I think the Greens would do, I'm not sure.

[derby378]

31. The DLC will not fight. Pelosi doesn't fight enough. But DUers FIGHT.

Why don't you stay with the winning team and come on in for the big win in 2006?

I respect the Greens, but there are too many reasons why I cannot be one. I wish them well, and I hope that one day it'll be Greens and Democrats in charge on Capitol Hill instead of Republicans and Democrats.

[Cascadian]

46. Pelosi has let liberals down.

I must admit that it's gotten to the point that maybe she should be replaced as well. Anybody for Matt Gonzalez for Congress? For those who don't know, Gonzalez was the Green Party candidate for Mayor in San Francisco and he almost won the thing! Maybe he should take on Pelosi. Maybe that will change her tune a bit.

John

[ChiciB1]

60. THIS IS THE POINT I'M MAKING!!

The Democratic leaders aren't listening much now, so defection whether to Greens or something else might wake them up!!

I too would love to see a melding of the Greens with the Democrats, but it sure isn't going to happen with all the name calling!! I think I already stated that I would LOVE to see Greens and Dems together.

I'm not upset with DU'ers... but I'm really pissed at many Representatives and Senators! How many of you can say you're not???

[Sooner75]

32. Check the split in the UK when the Liberal Democrats left Labour

This reminds me of that split in the Labour Party in the UK. Of course, the UK is still functionally a 2 party system, but there are other parties besides the Tories and Labour. From what I can see, the Liberal Democrats are flourishing over there and hold a whole raft of seats in the House of Commons. I believe they have SO MANY that Labour has to govern WITH them on board.

The point here is that that faction that was once WITHIN the Labour Party has more leverage over public policy by being a separate party.

(I hope that some Brits will chime in on this.)

I think that it's very clear that the American electorate is very poorly served at present by own political system and that is due to some degree on the lockdown of political power into just two political parties -- both of whom are forced to chase ever increasing dollars. The result is a system that merely serves the highest bidders and not the citizenry.

The Democratic Party needs to get back into the game by somehow conveying a number of hard truths that people don't want to hear and convincing them to vote for the party candidates anyway. If the party continues to flounder, I think that we could see a split like the Liberal Democrat split with Labour. If that happens, it may end up being a good thing in that more points of view get real representation and consideration.

[eridani]

34. Dems have PCOs, and Greens don't

That's why I'm hanging around to build a progressive Dem candidate farm team. It doesn't matter if you have the right platform if you don't have the bottom-up local organization to effectively contest elections. I like the Greens fine--I just think they're more of a social movement than a political party.

[OneBlueSky]

36. one person does it = interesting . . .

one million people do it = revolutionary . . .

[eridani]

37. Not hardly. Not unless they ORGANIZE themselves. n/t

[eridani]

38. Not hardly. Not unless they ORGANIZE themselves. n/t

[ChiciB1]

43. The REVOLUTION May Be NEEDED!!

So where's the Revolution???

[bluestateguy]

39. Oh brother

A solid majority of Democrats in the Senate and over 90% of House Democrats voted against that awful bill. Do you know how rare it is for 100% party unity on any piece of legislation? Democrats were more united than Republicans were.

What a whiny crybaby post.

[ChiciB1]

41. I'm Not Sure... Nut You May Have

read my other posts. This isn't ONLY about CAFTA. As I stated, this was the last straw in a long list of defeats we keeping getting pounded over the head with.

Unfortunately, a fair amount of you feel this is an easy, crybaby appeal for sympathy. I guess if that's your view then I'm sorry.

Perhaps you might stop and make yourself a list of how much we've gained, and how much we have lost! I'm a Boomer and remember very clearly how ACTION used to DO SOMETHING! I can and will continue to PROTEST in the loudest voice possible... I'm a TRUE activist, and it's activism I'm looking for and what I want.

Not to worry, I WILL still be fighting for Democratic causes, I just want to feel that when I give some input that someone seems to be listening. DU'ers here are GREAT, but since I plan to be at the September 24th rally in D.C., I think we should ALL make an effort to show that kind of activism!

Greens may NOT have National recognition of their Platform, but from those that I've been talking to here in Sarasota County... they want to be vocal and have a grass roots activism that is loud and out there! Given where I live, at least the Greens are will to do that! I joined the PDA, but talk about "wimpy", they are sitting on their hands pondering. It's an older group and maybe they don't like to make waves, for me I want WAVES! I want Splash and Kicking! But I WON'T throw my vote away, IF the Democrats can get a good viable candidate! Hillary ain't gonna get it for me!

So I'm a whiny, crybaby brat??? That really does a lot for me. An earlier reply stated that he hoped I would be "happy" until I found out differently, thus giving me a REASON to return to the Democrats. If that's the consensus, then toast I AM!!

I could find out that the Greens aren't where I need to be, but does that make me a "turn coat"? I think not. If push comes to shove, I realize that any vote for a Green party candidate is a vote away from the Dems. I NEVER said I wouldn't vote Dem. I said I'm tired of WIMPY leaders. Ergo, I'll write those in Congress to let them know WHY I feel this way. So, if that's being whiny, well SLAP MY HAND! I'm an asshole.

And as an earlier post noted.... hang in there guy, thanks for the encouragement. and I'm not nitpicking on this one. I'm a female. But you couldn't have known that. Thanks to you who were kind enough to point out the need to stay and fight. I've been fighting and fighting, and I will keep ALL 15 bumper stickers on my car. I just want to see energized leaders and maybe the Greens won't make too many in-roads, but maybe their leadership will stand behind them

[ChiciB1]

42. That Intro Is Supposed To Read... But You May Not Have Read...

Not.. Nut! My bad!!!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

40. I hope you enjoy...

...your new position of ideological purity and absolute powerlessness. If that's what makes you feel good, so be it.

[ClassWarrior]

44. Lori Wallach said at the core of the CAFTA defeat is victory for us...

The Public Citizen official was on "Democracy Now" this morning, and she said that while the CAFTA maneuvering was disgusting and a mockery of democracy, we can use this blatant manipulation to peel off key seats for Progressives in the midterms.

Every cloud and all that...

So bail? Or keep hope alive? What would Progressives do?

NGU.

[Cascadian]

45. What good is a political party if it doesn't fight?

All of you pro-DLC Republican Lite people have got to realize you are allowing the Democratic Party to lose supporters. Therefore, you are destroying the Democratic Party. You are going to see more of this sort of thing if the leaders do not start fighting the Bushites. Wake the hell up!


John

[ClassWarrior]

47. What good is a political party if the members bail when...

...the going gets rough? Progressives are only beginning to get an apparatus in place to challenge the Republicon Lites. Of course, what good will it do if our members bail on us??...

NGU.

[Cascadian]

65. I think it is more about frustration.

It's about the way certain supposed "Democrats" behave in the House and the Senate. Many of the progressives want the lawmakers to fight the Neocon agenda, not enable it and unfortunately they have been doing just that. It would disappoint anybody who wants to stop the Neocons. They want people in Washington, D.C. to back their talk with action. Action speaks louder than words as the saying goes. And not just disagree on some issues. They must stop the entire right-wing agenda! No more compromises!

I can only hope the appointment of Howard Dean to the DNC is the beginning of the resurrgance of the progressives. There is a lot of work to be done to get rid of the Neocons but there must be work to unseat and remove the DLC and those who think like they do from power in the party. Otherwise, you are going to see more elections lost and therefore more people will leave the Democratic Party. This is only the beginning.

If the Democrats are going to retake the Congress and eventually the White House it MUST stop talking like they are trying to act like conservatives. It has not worked before and will never work. They must be bold and say "yes I am different from the Republicans" but say it in a way that is going to energize the undecided voters.

Deep down, I am hoping the Democrats can gain, of course as Howard Dean would say..."You have the power!" I will do what I can but I am going to tell you that my patience and the patience of others is growing very thin with these people we have in office now with a few exceptions. These guys better change their tune with a more assertive fight or risk losing it all. Just ask Tom Daschle.

John

[geek tragedy]

48. Toodles.

Over 90% of the Democratic members of the House voted against it.

Karl Rove thanks you.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

49. I believe there are many of us Dems who are fed up with the DLC

not representing our interests! We stand to lose numerous members because the battle wasn't waged after the 'election'. If you think that it is just a few members of the online communities that are threatening to leave the party, think again. I have talked to numerous people who are not on the internet who have been lifelong Dem's. They realize the election was stolen, and realize our leaders are NOT representing our interests.

Let me put it this way, our party by not fighting the election and for ELECTION REFORM, have told us all OUR VOTES DO NOT COUNT. So, if we remain loyal to our party, OUR VOTES WILL STILL NOT COUNT. So, why not take a look at alternatives? Why continue to give hard earned dollars to a party who only cares about our donations?

For instance, I am willing to bet that the DNC has not issued one piece of advise regarding Diebold systems to the local democratic leaders or the Democratic Board members who make the decisions for the party. They can certainly afford to send literature to ask for donations, so why not a mailing to the ones who make these critical decisions? Why haven't they been rallying the members to make lots of noise on this issue so they can have a chance of amending HAVA?

Don't get me wrong, my biggest desire is to clean up the party (and am working on that as well). But, until it is a party that functions for the good of the people, my wallet is closed!

Praise to the members who VOTE for the PEOPLE! To these members I will donate, regardless whether I remain a Democrat or leave the party.

[ClassWarrior]

50. No question. That's why we need to fight to get our party back.

NGU.

[Don1]

51. Some Positive Feedback.

I find it interesting that this place is supposed to be for progressives. The registration agreement says that this place is for Democratic party members and other progressives, thereby positing that all Democrats are progressive. Yet people here call you a crybaby when you demand that the Democratic Party be progressive.

I also find it interesting that you get reprimanded for your op, for which you SHOULD have been reprimanded. However, those in this thread who violated the Civility clause listed in the registration agreement should ALSO receive a reprimand for calling you a whining crybaby.

These issues seem contradictory and border on double standards, but the line seems fuzzy...and it seems like it is part of the greater problem of nebulous terminology like 'progressive' and 'centrist' and even 'Democrat.'

I recommend to you also to keep complaining about such important issues as CAFTA. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and those who do not complain follow the 'spineless' ideology of too many. To those who pretend like non-progressive Democratic congressmen were not complicit in CAFTA, you are WRONG. I already did an objective analysis on this fact. The DLC was complicit in CAFTA passing:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1964233
Therefore, you are correct to complain.

Finally, I recommend to you to consider PDA rather than the Green Party. PDA is attempting to reform the Democratic Party to keep it consistent with progressive goals. They will even endorse Greens from time to time as opposed to Zell Millers.

And I challenge anyone here to tell me that they would vote for Zell Miller rather than a non-Democrat progressive such as Bernie Sanders or a Green like David Cobb.

[King Coal]

52. Don't let your back button hit you in the ass on the way out.

[ChiciB1]

53. Thank You.... n/t

[LoZoccolo]

54. How many letters have you written since last night, eh?

Or when do you plan on writing them?

[ChiciB1]

56. Working On Them Now...

But I'm trying to e-mail most of them. If it's snail mail, it's snail mail.

Thanks for your reply.

[Don1]

58. Check out the PDA site to help write letters/emails.

Just put your zip code into this page:
http://capwiz.com/pdamerica/issues/alert/?alertid=7884386&type=CO

Also, check out the suggested text. WOW is all I have to say:
"Your vote for CAFTA is evident that you put corporate profits over human rights, the environment, and a sustainability economy. Your desire to advocate for larger corporations and NOT the American worker in your district is shameful. It is very apparent you are in bed with special interests. It is more apparent those special interests are more important then those voters in your district.

You have helped not only to destroy jobs, workers' rights, fair pay, and environmental protections, but you also destroyed your credibility to every working family in your district.

It is apparent now who you speak for. You do not represent us, and we have no further use for you. Take your overpaid corporate lobbyist job now. Do so voluntarily. Or we will remember this vote in the coming primary."

[ChiciB1]

61. Thank You For At Least

seeming to understand. I wanted to PM you, but see that's not possible. I can see that quite a few here don't understand my angst nor do they understand a deep sense of true regret.

But I do understand that I won't be welcome here any more and I've gotten the feed-back I asked for. Hey, I put it out there, and I'm big enough to take the hits!

Thanks again.

[ChiciB1]

62. And Thanks For The Link... I'm Sure I'll Be Banned Soon...

I wrote it down.

[Corey_Baker08]

57. The Greens Are Doing So Much more than the Democrats Right?

Hell they might even win the house and senate in 08.

:sarcasm:

[ChiciB1]

59. Have You Read Any Of My Other Posts Here???

I have yet to say that the Greens will be able to affect much change. My main argument is that I want the Democratic leaders to stand up and fight. And they don't seem to be doing a very good job of it.

If it takes defection then maybe they'll get some kind of message. I do think the Greens have been more HONEST about many things. I don't know that much about the leaders as yet, but then again with a TWO-Party system it's pretty hard to get a foot hold. I also suspect that when it comes to casting votes that they will more likely than not go with the Democrats. I know if it were the same situation it was in 2000, I would NEVER have voted for Nader because the costs were too tremendous. In the end, Nader CAN be blamed for his part in that, but he is no longer with the Greens!

And as I said, CAFTA was a last straw, but NOT in and of itself the total reasons behind how I feel. So now I'm a traitor, but before I get branded and royally kicked out, I will say I've worked exceedingly hard for Democrats for many many years, starting with the McGovern campaign. When I see an administration bully the other side and they only have a few who will actually take a stand, it concerns me to distraction.

Maybe I should simply chuck the whole political system altogether, and forget the Greens. Once before I tried not to get so involved. It lasted for about 2 weeks! I'm a political animal/junkie and I'm an activist. With Anarchy there must be REVOLUTION. I guess it's my way of revolting! What are YOUR suggestions to most of the Democratic leaders and what are they doing now??? I see arguments here ALL the time about DLC vs. DNC vs. Liberals vs. Progressives vs. DINOS. What will be done???

I'm sure I won't stop reading Chomsky, Will Pitt, Greg Palast and many many others, or listening to Amy Goodman, it's in my blood. I have printed out article after article on so many topics, but "the corrupt ones" are still laughing! I can't remember who wrote the book "Who Will Tell The People", but that's a question I ask a lot lately!

So kick me aside and call me names, it's already happening!

:wtf: :hippie:

[LSK]

63. i guess 215 votes against CAFTA is a few????

:shrug: :shrug:


You should wait and see how 2006 goes. At least give Dean a chance.

[inthebrain]

64. Where is Dean on this?

Why is he not casting the dirty 25 out of the party?

I am also disgusted at the fact that neither candidate issued this discussion in the debates. Don't we, as a people, deserve some kind of voice in the decisions come election time?

Where was our choice on CAFTA?

[Eric J in MN]

69. There were 15 Democrats who voted for CAFTA, and

I don't think the DNC Chair has the power to eject a US Congressperson from the Democratic Party.

[Reciprocity]

66. I feel your pain.

I live in Texas do you think my votes counts? I haul my boney ass to the voting booth knowing how futile it is every time I get the chance. I have lived under the Bush regime more years than you have and I'm not changing. Kerry was not my first choice but I voted for him anyway. There is one thing you need to take into consideration when you vote. Any vote to anyone who is not a democrat is a vote for the Bush machine. I repeat, a vote to anyone who is not a democrat is a vote for the Bush machine. You certainly have the right to vote for whom every you want. However, if the next president is a republican, own up to the fact that you helped get him there. This is not the world I made, where you vote for the person you think is best no matter the consequences. This is the world I live in where only two parties are the only viable choices.

[TheFarseer]

67. I'm as mad as anyone about CAFTA

The best answer is to run primary challenges against all those traitors that voted for CAFTA. As long as these primary challenges are issue based and not dirty and personal. The green party will never be more than a sideshow and a dangerous sideshow unfortunately (remember Al Gore in New Hampshire and Florida) I urge people that are fed up with the democratic party to stick with it and try to change it from within.

[Don1]

71. I disagree.

Primaries, yes. BUT ...

If candidates continue to choose to not represent the people's interest and go against the platform by voting for the Bankruptcy Bill, for the Patriot Act, for CAFTA, then they should not be voted for in the elections either.

Party unity is not just about citizens uniting for the Democratic candidates. It is also about the Democratic candidates uniting for the Democratic platform. If party unity remains a concept that only applies to the voters and not the candidates, then the Democratic party and the US will continue moving right!

[ktowntennesseedem]

72. First things first

I'm as mad as anyone over CAFTA, but I mostly mad over the way the vote dragged on and on until the very moment the "yeas" had a slight margin, then suddenly it was over. Of course with that goes my anger for those few Dems who voted for it, and that goes double for any who were swayed to change their vote. But still there were a vast majority of Dems who voted no, and I cannot be angry with them.

My team lost another close game because of cheating by the opponents and lousy officiating. But I don't abandon my support, and in the case of Congress, the stakes are far higher than bragging rights and some championship trophy.

IMHO, we must hang tough and keep fighting, and support the majority of Dems who are doing the same. We need solidarity in our efforts to win back the house and senate, and then the WH. The repubs have managed to unite a vast array of religious and fiscal conservatives, most of whom don't have that much in common. We need to keep together our diverse constituents, even if our only bond is a common disgust for the current administration. And at a time when serious divisions are developing in the repub ranks, our unity is even more vital.

Our policy differences are important, and we do need to address them. But I say wait until we can address them from a position of strength--after we regain the majority.

[Moderator]

73. Locking, Please refrain from advocating

the removal of Democratic Congresspeople and this is not the "GreenUnderground"

The rules are clear:

"Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here.

and

"Please note that sweeping statements about entire groups of fellow progressives are not categorically forbidden. However, they are often inflammatory and counterproductive and the moderators have broad discretion to remove such posts in the interests of keeping the peace on the message board."