Why generals won't ask for more troops

[donsu]

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/opinion/12199306.htm/


-snip-

If anyone in uniform needed an object lesson they had only to look at what happened to an honorable and loyal soldier, Army chief of staff Gen. Eric K. Shinseki, when he reluctantly answered a senator who demanded his opinion on how many troops it would take to occupy Iraq. This was in late February 2003.

-snip-

The civilians would prove Ric Shinseki wrong no matter what it cost, and they would do everything in their power to punish him and everyone who liked him and supported him. Rumsfeld's deputy, Paul Wolfowitz, publicly rebuked Shinseki, saying his estimate was ''wildly off the mark.'' They also made him a lame duck by leaking the name of his proposed successor more than a year before he was to retire.

-snip-

When Army Secretary Tom White spoke up on behalf of Shinseki he was fired.

-snip-

''You probably are looking at substantially more than 10,000,'' Riggs told the paper. ``I have been in the Army 39 years and I've never seen the Army as stretched in that 39 years as I have today.''

Riggs had already requested retirement. It usually takes 60 days for the paperwork to get done. Two days before that period ended Riggs was told that he was being demoted to two-star rank and would retire at that rank and pay. Riggs has appealed.
-snip-
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if the military brass won't/can't stand up against the criminal bushgang, who will?

is it all on the shoulders of Fitzgerald?

[bballny]

1. Risk

These neocon morons never played Risk Anyone who has ever played Risk knows overwhelming force is always needed.

[Bucky]

14. I disagree. I think Risk is exactly where they learned geopolitics

It's game board with plastic peices to them--one where civilians and democratic politics don't figure into strategy. And burying your dead means just sweeping a few little trinkets into a plastic box.

[bballny]

17. Risk does tell you what is needed

What Shineski said is true. When you are going to conqueror and occupy you need overwhelming force.

[Ysolde]

2. That's actually a VERY scary idea.

If the military won't stand up to the Bushistas, does that mean they agree/promote what they're doing? If so, how far are we from a coup?

:scared:

[Kolesar]

4. I rather despise the US officer corps

They overwhelmingly vote Republican. Either their only news sources are RW talk radio, or they are so damn conservative that they embrace the racist, imperialist agenda of the gop.

[donsu]

9. at the beginning of the occupation Many officers quit the military

and some are standing up and fighting back now

[Kolesar]

16. I recall some headlines like that from early in the Iraq war

The media likes to avoid those officers. I never see them.

[RaleighNCDUer]

5. Not necessarily.

Traditionally, the military takes no position, pro or con. By "standing up" to the cabal, they would be taking a position against the administration. Most military recognize that their bosses are the civilian leadership, and they do what they are told.

Once this is over, and they are free to publish their memoirs, we can expect to see a lot of discussion about this sort of shit, but while in uniform they will go by the rules, follow orders, and accept the chain of command.

Not to say there aren't more than a few Colonel Norths out there, however.

[Tactical Progressive]

6. I seem to recall some general speaking out against Clinton

in pretty ugly terms.

[wli]

7. "He was not elected" ... "He was appointed by God."

Yes, that's why Boykin is flying off the handle.

[RaleighNCDUer]

11. Like I said, there are a few out there -

and more than a few.

Problem is, the ones that are playing by the rules are, by definition, keeping quiet. And, when they object through channels, by the rules, they get smacked down by the administration, as per the OP's examples.

The repukes have the WH, the congress, the press, and most of the judiciary. But they want the military, too, which is why they are indoctrinating the officer corp, as at the AF Academy.

But if I go there I will be accused of tinfoil hat stuff.

[wli]

24. I wouldn't mind hearing of the AF Academy stuff

PM me as-needed (though here is fine too).

[RaleighNCDUer]

25. I don't have the links

perhaps someone here can oblige you, but over the past couple years there has been a strong fundamentalist movement ingrained in the AF Academy, resulting in a hostile climate for non-christians and even mainstream christians. It first came to light because of the complaints by a female chaplain, I believe, who had been assigned there to deal with the repercussions from the sex abuse scandals there - she has been since reassigned elsewhere.

You could probably Google AF Academy scandals and find it all. A very disturbing picture of the moulders of one of our service branches trying to develop a very specific ideology within their officer corps.

[Imagevision]

20. Generals ask for more troops-they kiss their careers goodbye!

[atreides1]

3. That's the problem

The generals are more concerned for their careers and how to get those high paying consulting jobs, then they are for the welfare of their troops.

And this total disregard for the soldiers, is nothing less then betrayal of trust. But the generals don't give a rat's ass about the troops, if they truly cared for the welfare of those under their command they would sacrifice everything for those troops.

No armored up humvees, not enough ammo in stock, lousy food, and a myriad of other shortcomings. Does this show a chain of command that
actually cares about the soldiers and marines, no it shows the exact opposite.

[gulliver]

8. The word "troops" might need to be parsed here.

Bush constantly says that the generals are not asking for more "troops." But maybe the generals are asking for more bodies. I doubt if anyone is counting the number of "security contractors" and other contractors. So Bush can keep the troop count artificially low by breaking out the check book and hiring "temps."

Besides the expense, using a lot of security contractors is unfair to the troops in at least two ways. For one, the contractors get a lot more money. But also, the contractors probably get the cushier, less risky jobs. Thus, the more contractors deployed, the farther U.S. troops get pushed forward into the riskier details.

[Bucky]

10. Tom "Enron" White wasn't exactly a hero in this

Part of why they dumped White was because they were trying to avoid the Enron taint, and jumped at the first chance to can him. Shinseki was a professional doing his job, White only a marginally more reluctant bastard neocon.

[realFedUp]

12. I thought they were just buying them these days....

Mercenaries R US Inc.

[greekspeak]

13. Read this in the Democrat...Big Brother is alive and well

How long until the military goes into mutiny, or at least til it backs those who will oust this dictator from Washington?

[Bucky]

15. Never, God willing.

If it takes a coup to get rid of Bush, democracy is a failure. If our military starts up with the "might makes right" mentality, no one is safe. Our civilian army is deeply grounded in the philosophy that the civil government calls the shots and you wouldn't like it any other way.

[stevietheman]

21. But, Bush may drag us to a point...

where a military coup is the only option to restore the Constitution and the republic that enables the democracy. I have no doubt that even if Bush were removed by a Senate vote, he would create a Constitutional crisis by refusing to leave.

[cosmik debris]

22. The line up to castrate GWB

now includes DoD, CIA, FBI, and Dept Of State. Granted the heads of these depts. are * appointees, but the rank and file professional career people are falling into line. Can you imagine 4 worse enemies to have?

[Imagevision]

18. 1700+ US. reservist's in Iraq are aged 50 and over.

two thirds of US. troops killed in the last 90 days were reservists

[Ce qui la baise]

19. Great article thanks

[Algorem]

23. Heard last few minutes of Bill "Bet It" Bennett's show today,he's pushing

a draft,carefully.Which to me means the Republicans are softening up their loyal followers to instituting draft.