Okay, here I go again. Help me to un-Anybody But Biden myself

[LittleClarkie]

Just in case he gets the nom.

I did this with Hillary as well.

Any Biden fans out there? Got a good book or an article that exemplifies why you like the guy?

Post them if you would. Just trying to cut the guy some slack and see if I have misconceptions about him. And I'm coming close to bash-mode with him. That's not right. I don't like it when it's Kerry or Clark or Dean. So I should open my mind re: Biden.

Anyone? Bueller?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

1. Now, now, calm down

There's no way Biden will ever be a viable candidate.

See? http://www.famousplagiarists.com/politics.htm

There.

Now, go spread joy.

[BlueIris]

2. ::crickets::

Sorry, LittleClarkie. The only thing I've got is: he was funny on The Daily Show that one time. And he's not Hillary? Other than that...nothing.

[Atman]

3. Not from me. Biden disgusts me. It's early enough to dissent!

We cannot allow the media to cram Biden down our throats the way we were force-fed Kerry. This is OUR party. The republican media can play with their own party, but we need to stop letting them call the shots for us.

[iconoclastic cat]

4. Perhaps it will be Biden v. McCain.

Wouldn't that be bold.

[Cocoa]

5. why do you want to be persuaded about Biden?

why not just accept your very reasonable dislke of him?

[LittleClarkie]

9. Because I'm not sure I'm basing it completely on the facts

right now I'm having a gut reaction against. Frankly, I look at him in full shout mode and think "babboon." Like I wanna trade a chimp for a babboon.

But I started out with Kerry in a similar frame of mind. Well, except for reminding me of a simian.

But I gotta say, when I asked this question about Hillary, I got some decent responses. I can see that Joe's gonna be a toughy.

I can't believe it. As of right now, unless somebody can persuade me that he ain't that bad, I'm no longer Anybody But Clinton. I'm Anybody But Biden.

ABB yet again. Le sigh.

[Sub Atomic]

6. i'm not a fan. but i don't dis-like him either.

at this point people are just tossing the sand in the wind to see how the wind blows.

i'm trying to keep an open, yet critical, mind to hear what any proposed Dem candidate has to say.

[Goldeneye]

7. He's balding beatifully?

:shrug:

No seriously, all I can come up with, is that he and Dodd are leading the fight on Bolton.

[LittleClarkie]

11. That's his only cookie so far from me

He's been a good boy re: Bolton.

Lieberman has more cookies than Biden. At least Leiberman didn't vote for the Bankruptsy bill, and didn't vote for closure on Bolton.

[PassingFair]

25. As I recall...

LIEberman voted for cloture on the bankruptcy bill, allowing it to go on to a sure win.
He did his bit before the actual vote...

[darkism]

8. He's not Hillary.

I agree with the poster above - that's all you need. :D

[LittleClarkie]

10. I gotta problem

Current frame of mind: Hillary's not Biden.

Comparison. What's better about Biden than Hillary?

[flaminbats]

12. doesn't plagiarism sound soooo evil..

never use any copyrighted ideas, words, or phrases which another crook might have bought.

[wyldwolf]

13. Biden is my 4th choice at the moment... here are some links...

(Al Franken likes him and gave some good info on him today...)

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0150103

http://www.answers.com/topic/joe-biden

In some political circles, Sen. Biden is one of the more respected voices in the Senate on national security, law and order and civil liberties, and has steadily rebuilt his political reputation after his unfortunate Presidential campaign. First elected to the U.S. Senate in 1972, Biden is currently serving his sixth six-year term in office. In the small state of Delaware, Biden is regarded as a highly effective campaigner...

[LittleClarkie]

14. We have a winner!

Thanks dear. I was starting to lose hope.

[wyldwolf]

16. He is a well grounded moderate Democrat

He is the author of the landmark Violence Against Women Act of 2000, which contains a broad array of groundbreaking measures to combat domestic violence and provides billions of dollars in federal funds to address gender-based crimes.

He continues to work to stop the spread of "date rape" drugs such as Rohypnol, as well as other drugs such as Ecstacy and Ketamine.

Sen. Biden has been a staunch supporter of college aid and loan programs and has crafted legislation to allow families to deduct up to $10,000 per year in higher education expenses on their annual income tax returns. His enacted "Kids 2000" legislation established a public/private partnership to help provide computer centers, teachers, Internet access, and technical training to young people across the nation, particularly to low-income and at-risk youth.

Biden campaigned for the U.S. presidency in 1988, but dropped out of the race amidst scandal. He was found to have plagiarized a speech from British Labour Party leader Neil Kinnock. Biden unsuccessfully defended the plagiarism claims arguing that he had previously correctly credited Kinnock on other occasions but failed to do so in an Iowa speech that was recorded and distributed to reporters by aides to Michael Dukakis.

http://biden.senate.gov/biography/

Senator Biden has played a pivotal role in shaping U.S. foreign policy for over three decades. As the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he is a student of history, respected at home and abroad for his uniquely well-informed, common sense approach to the complexities of American foreign policy issues. Senator Richard Lugar, who currently chairs the committee, said: "Senator Biden has a very strong commitment to a bipartisan foreign policy and serves as a good example for everyone in Congress. He has a very broad, comprehensive view of the world. He’s a good listener, but he’s also a strong and effective advocate of his position."

http://biden.senate.gov/biography/

I could live with a Biden presidency. We could do a lot worse. Probably better, too.

If he was Southern (sorry, it does make a difference these days), he'd be a wonderful candidate for us if our objective was to win.

[LittleClarkie]

17. I still have a gut reaction issue with him

but thanks for some facts. I don't like his grandstanding and publicity hounding. But I will read the stuff you posted. The answers.com page looks esp. informative. Thanks.

[wyldwolf]

20. well...

...I think we need a publicity hound. Dean anyone?

But compare Biden to other Senators on the issues...

http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Joe_Biden.htm

I think you'll find that his record is pretty decent.

[Eloriel]

15. Misconceptions? Are his damn VOTES not enough?

Or his pro-war policy and agenda?

They sure as hell are enough for or me. Between IWR and Bankruptcy he's done (either one is more than enough, thank you very little, but there is NO excuse for the Bankruptcy bill, NONE!).

I hope he gets his fanny out in the world known as "beyond the beltway" and gets a SNOOTFUL of anger from party activists and regular old rank and file Dems who are FED THE FUCK UP.

[cornermouse]

18. Which is more honest?

A direct attack on a candidate or an indirect attack on a candidate?

The only two people I have actually crossed off are Biden and Lieberman. Kerry and Clinton are on shakey ground, but not crossed off. Other than that, I'm just watching them.

And now I'm going to bed. Knock yourself out.

[LittleClarkie]

19. What do you mean?

Who are you directing your question at re: direct and indirect attacking?

[newswolf56]

21. Doubt I could ever support him. He's viciously...

...anti-working-class, both as measured by his vote to abolish the right of individual bankruptcy (and replace it with lifelong indentured servitude), and by his infamous record of being opposed to the private ownership of firearms. I believe (but its far enough in the past my memory is uncertain on this point) he was also one of the more outspoken supporters of NAFTA.

The one great "success" of the Bush Administration is that it is re-awakening America to the reality of class warfare (and thus too the relevance of Marx and Marxism). If we are going to start winning elections again, we have to start being true to our class origins again.

[wyldwolf]

22. Biden's ratings on issues

Rated 36% by NARAL, indicating a mixed voting record on abortion.
Rated 60% by the ACLU, indicating a mixed civil rights voting record.
Rated 32% by the US COC, indicating an anti-business voting record. (Dec 2003) - probably "improved" because of the bankruptcy bill
Rated 71% by CURE, indicating pro-rehabilitation crime votes.
Rated 91% by the NEA, indicating pro-public education votes
Rated 95% by the LCV, indicating pro-environment votes.
Rated 16% by the Christian Coalition: an anti-family voting record
Rated 42% by CATO, indicating a mixed record on trade issues.
Rated F by the NRA, indicating a pro-gun control voting record.
Rated 100% by APHA, indicating a pro-public health record
Rated 80% by SANE, indicating a pro-peace voting record.
Rated 100% by the AFL-CIO, indicating a pro-labor voting record
Rated 89% by the ARA, indicating a pro-senior voting record.

In 2003, Biden recieved a 75% liberal rating from the ADA, (higher than John Edwards (65%) and Lieberman (70%) and Harry Reid (70%) )

[newswolf56]

27. Would please like to see the source...

...of these ratings, especially since I question how anyone who supports the global economy, NAFTA and the abolition of personal bankruptcy can get a "100 percent" rating from AFL-CIO.

Also, note in this context the growing schism in the labor movement: what AFL-CIO leadership endorses is often at odds with what the rank-and-file support, especially on matters such as illegal immigration, which has reached such a crisis level that according to one authoritative study it is depressing wages nationally by as much as 22 percent -- this of course as executive pay continues to skyrocket.

[wyldwolf]

28. sure

Biden scores 100% by the AFL-CIO on labor issues
As the federation of America’s unions, the AFL-CIO includes more than 13 million of America’s workers in 60 member unions working in virtually every part of the economy. The mission of the AFL-CIO is to improve the lives of working families to bring economic justice to the workplace and social justice to our nation. To accomplish this mission we will build and change the American labor movement.

The following ratings are based on the votes the organization considered most important; the numbers reflect the percentage of time the representative voted the organization's preferred position.

Source: AFL-CIO website 03n-AFLCIO on Dec 31, 2003

http://www.issues2000.org/Domestic/Joe_Biden_Jobs.htm

http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Joe_Biden.htm

http://www.adaction.org/2003senatevr.htm

http://www.adaction.org/lifetimesendelaware.html

He had a higher Liberal Quotient than Dennis Kucinich in 1999.

[Hidden Stillness]

23. A Good Thing About Biden, eh?...Uh,..well, there's..uh...

I will never forgive Biden for helping to sabotage Anita Hill, who was obviously telling the truth--especially when Sen. Paul Simon on the same committee supported her--and giving us Clarence Thomas, forever.

[Historic NY]

24. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....he loves to hear himself talk.

Unfortunately he is not presidential timber.

[Gold Metal Flake]

26. Biden is the REPUBLICAN choice!

Stop being distracted. He is irrelevent.

Biden will not happen.

[ElectroPrincess]

29. Triple DING! He's a Republican!

Told my moderate democratic husband who LOVES Biden that it would be the first time I broke with him. No way I'd vote for Biden - I didn't mind compromising and voting for John Kerry, but NOT ever Biden. Told my better half to get *excited* about someone else because my knowledge of "the base" is one that will flatly oppose Biden.

What an arrogant PNAC letter signing, Bankruptcy Bill supporting jerk. No way - no how! If Biden gets the Democratic Nomination I will know that it's time to go GREEN. ;)

[election_2004]

30. Don't drink the kool-aid!

Biden doesn't have the same cultish group of rabid supporters the way Hillary does....but both of them (as possible presidential nominees) would be a liability for Democrats further down the ticket in red states and "purple" states.

[fujiyama]

31. He's ummmm...

animated! That's the word I was looking for. He looks kind of funny when he goes on one of his disingenuous rants, which is backed by no action whatsoever.

[LynneSin]

32. Although I won't vote for Biden for prez, the guy is being vilified....

..for very lameass reasons. And only because for some bizarre reason he his being held to stricter standards (ie - his association with the credit card industry which btw, is pretty much the main economy of his home (and my) state).

But yet one needs only to spend a few hours on opensecrets to find out that pretty much ALL politicians including democrats have a penchant for a favorite local industry and not only readily accepts money from them BUT also has a tendency to vote in the favor of that industry (please note I said 'pretty much all' I know there are a few candidates out there)

So I started this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1870613

Mary Landrieu was the first example that I remembered because of how much money she gets from the Oil industry and how she supports that industry including ANWR drilling. Yet, I still think Mary is a great woman, a fine senator - just bugs the crap out of me about the Oil stuff.

However, as someone who lives in Delaware, I am personally not interested in Biden as my president. He's cut from the same cloth as Al Gore and John Kerry, which are 2 guys that basically crumbled when all the shit (mainly lies) hit the fans. I want someone with a little more charisma who can handle the shit they know comes with the territory of 'democratic presidental candidate'. Bill Clinton handled it like a champ and I know there are others out there that would do just the same (first on my list - PA Governor Ed Rendell!)

So to be honest, if you don't want to vote for Biden - so be it, I live in Delaware and I won't be voting for him for president unless some bizarre reason he actually gets the nomination. WHy he's saying something now is beyond me because personally he pretty much took himself out of the running with this early announcement.

So, as a First Stater and supporter of Joe Biden for Senator - seriously, don't worry about not supporting Joe for President and better yet, don't worry about bashing him if need be too. Just make sure it's for legitmate reasons. Judging him on standards that most others in congress would also fail is just piss-poor. The problem isn't Joe Biden and MBNA, the problem is we have failed at fixing the problems with campaign finance reform and we need to better that!