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From Election Fraud to Memogate... a Fundraiser for Raw Story

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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 02:18 PM
Original message
From Election Fraud to Memogate... a Fundraiser for Raw Story
Edited on Sun Jun-19-05 02:20 PM by paineinthearse
A call for funds for Raw Story post was started in GD a couple days ago - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3887747&mesg_id=3887747

I was bad, should have cleared permission with the admins first, but did it in parallel. As a result, it was locked after 8 hours and fell off the "greatest" page. Skinner has unlocked the original post in GD.

This is an attempt to give it the maximum exposure possible.

Thanks to Raw Story and to DU'ers for their support.

As Red Green says, "Remember, I'm pulling for you, we're all in this together".

============================================================

From Election Fraud to Memogate... a Fundraiser for Raw Story

Folks,

Take a moment and reflect who our #1 alternative source of information since Guckertgate to ink-for-pay to to Negroponet to Bolton to DSM, with a few exclusive interviews and rabble rousing (remember the paper chase?) thrown in, has been.

Some of my favorite Raw Story stories:

Social Security Scam Letter Series
Gannon/Eberle
Baker/Carter commission
Interview with Ritter, Conyers, Reid, etc.
Social Security Playbook/handbook talking points
GOP Shiavo talking points
Apartheid

What are your favorites?

Post as you open your wallets for a very worthy cause.

==========================================================================

http://rawstory.com/contact/rawheldp.html

Fundraiser for Raw Story
Two Week Help-Us-Out-A-Thon
June 17 - July 1 2005

Dear Readers:

As you know, Raw Story works hard to bring you the news and information so critical in understanding the world in which we live. Raw Story is proud of its original investigative reporting work as well as its dedication to bringing to you the most important news from around the world.

Raw Readers know that the majority of our funds come from the advertising pop-up and banner ads that we have posted on the site. Those ads, as annoying as they are to all of you (we have heard your complaints), only really cover the cost of the site up-keep and hosting, an editor, with some to spare for our news editor and one researcher.

The little that our news staffers make goes back into researching stories because we pay for our own research, phone bills, and some cases travel. We would like to be able to pay our staff something for their hard work and we would like to hire additional staff to help make Raw Story become even better.

If you value the work that we do and if you feel we are helping to keep you informed, we ask that you kindly help keep Raw Story going by contributing to our two week fundraiser.

Who Donates What?

If you are a company and wish to help with equipment and/or software donations, please contact John Byrne at editor@rawstory.com . In particular, we have no laptops, which makes it difficult to cover events live.

If you are a service provider and wish to donate services such as broadband/T1 lines, research subscriptions, phone cards, etc., please contact John Byrne at editor@rawstory.com

If you are an individual, please see the FAQ below.

FAQ of Why, How, What, And All of that Good Stuff

Why only two weeks? We want to raise some much-needed funds for the most-needed things. If this goes well, we might consider doing a monthly donation drive that will allow ad-free accounts, and to expand our resources. Right now, however, we need to address some key issues such as our staff, research costs, site upgrades, etc.

How do I donate? You may use the PayPal link below for credit card, debit card, and direct bank transactions. Just click on the paypal link below and you will be directed to the donation page.

What if I don't have or want to use a credit card or paypal? You may use our mailing address, also listed below. Checks are non-refundable.

Is this tax deductible? No, this is not tax deductible.

How much do you want/need to raise and what do you need it for? Well, it would be easier to list what we don't need. We don't have a figure on how much we "want/need" to raise. We have never done a fundraiser before, so this is all a bit new.

We don't know what to ask for, but we know that our two journalists have been working almost 24/7 with very little pay; our researcher has been working 24/7 with no pay; our site needs a serious overhaul; our equipment is outdated; we have no research accounts whatsoever; we have large phone bills; and so forth. In other words, we end up volunteering a lot of our time to bring as much as possible to you. Any help is appreciated.

I have no way of helping financially, is there something I can do? We rely on the kindness of volunteers greatly. While we are in fact looking for researchers, PR help, and administrative help, this particular request is not for staffers, volunteers.

That said, you can, however, help by spreading the word of the fundraiser, getting word out about Raw Story, and by simply being supportive of our work.

Will this fundraiser pay for the hiring more writers? We would first like to pay the writers that we do have at least a minimum wage. But yes, if we raise enough, then one of the things we want to do is hire a few more writers, an additional full time researcher, and a business person to manage the stuff that we writers don't have a clue about.

How much should I donate? Whatever you feel comfortable donating is fine. We appreciate everything and anything you can do or donate.
What if I have additional questions? Contact Muriel Kane.

Donate Here
Donate via Paypal to use your credit card, debit card, checking account, etc. Donations of $75 or more can be paired with a t-shirt, though we'd prefer you just buy the t-shirt separately to help us out.

http://rawstory.com/contact/rawheldp.html
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr

If you wish to send a check, please do so to using the address at right Raw Story
C/O Donations
PO Box 398091
Cambridge, MA 02139

To buy a t-shirt, go to http://heretikriotgear.com/blog_rawstory.htm . We get a few dollars for each shirt, and they are made in the USA (which is why they cost more than usual).

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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ah here you are...
If anyone from Apple is reading is reading this... we would love a laptop or two for work. All of us are stuck with outdated desk monsters.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I live in apple country, what variety would you like?
MacIntosh, courtland, delicious, spalding, norther spy, empire?
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. GO GO GO for Raw Story! Recommended and kicked! n/t
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. this one seems not to be of interest
like the last one... maybe we should have stuck to the last one? i dunno.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. The other one was not going to get onto the Greatest Page and needed
kicking very often to be seen. We need one more vote now and we'll finally get onto the Greatest Page where there will be more visibility.

I've PMed a strong supporter of the last thread, FLDem5, to invite them to join us here.

Sometimes it takes a lot of work to get a thread finally going. This is a good cause and should attract a lot of attention once people see it. Maybe next time we can try a more urgent-sounding title.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
6. For the cause, people!
:kick:
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. kick - this should get to the Greatest page in the AM if we keep kicking
:kick:
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 04:31 AM
Response to Original message
8. kick - THINK, people, how important Raw Story has become to us
then donate to support the truth getting out.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
9. Kicked and recommended for Great reporting!
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
10. Donated and Nominated. With huge thanks for the hard work at RAW STORY!
Edited on Mon Jun-20-05 07:45 AM by cyberpj

THANKS!

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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
11. Maybe you need a fundraising "thermometer" to be authentic!
just kidding - I hope you reach your goal and wish I could donate more. Maybe next week!
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. No joke, you should
See what the Con's have posted, seems they think they have another crusade to figure out.

We don't have a goal in all honesty. We just don't know how much to ask for, so we figure we will just let it ride and hopefully raise enough to pay us something, hire another writer, researcher, and maybe, if we can get several research accounts with Lex/Nex, Westlaw, etc., or at least raise enough that we can use some as a research fund. We don't have the basic tools that every news organization should have and the pay per research we have been doing is not doable anymore. Plus, the phone bills are getting out of control. Really, much of what I have made would equal a carton of smokes a week but then I have to put it back into research and phone (which I have not, hence cell is kaka).

Anyway, we have never done this b4, so we don't know what to ask for, or what is even appropriate to ask. We basically figured people can give if they want to, or help in other ways. The money thing is only one part of it, as we need a graphic designer, software (shareware expires, lol), and so forth.

I am surprised we have gotten this far in all honesty, but I am sure glad that we did.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I am glad you did too.
Hope y'all get some help!
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Oh the difference between what you people do with so few resources
Edited on Mon Jun-20-05 12:14 PM by Nothing Without Hope
at Raw Story and what the corporate media fat-cats do with so many. If they were still capable of feeling shame, they'd hang their heads.

With more resources, just imagine what Raw Story could become!

Would a pre-paid phone card for long distance be helpful? Not clear whether it's your cell phone that's kaka or your long distance phone costs.

ed:typo
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. My cell phone is kaka
Because I use that number for work, not home phone. Calling cards would be amazing, as we need them, especially for overseas. But you already donated so stop spending any more.

We are desperate also for:
Graphic Designer (to clean up the site and make nice)

At least one "normal" laptop. None of us have one, but I use my husband's old one sometimes as a typewriter. We need something that can handle streaming from remote locations and images. Again, this is not something for people to buy as these things are expensive. But I am thinking if we all emailed Apple, maybe they would be kind enough to donate? We don't need all the bells and whistles of playing cd/mp3 stuff, just a workable machine.

An account at least at Westlaw and/or Lex/Nex (both would be nice) or some other service, as there are few. Again, there is no way we can raise enough for this service because it is hundreds of $$ a month per a single user ID and I don't want to raise that kind of money from people who have little themselves. I am hoping they would "grant" us one account OR the most likely is that we could use some of what we raise to pay as needed (3 bucks or so per research session).

As for staff, there are two journalists and one researcher. The researcher up until yesterday, was paid 0 and living off her savings. So I already paid her a bit out of the fundraiser money as she has not been paid in 4 months or so.

I have a husband who helps to keep a roof over my head (and we are living off credit cards), but I spend more on research than I make, which is next to nothing anyway (you would be in shock if you knew). I don't get paid per hour, per day, per amount of time, etc. I get paid per an article, even if it takes me a month to vet it.
And that is enough to buy a carton of cigs.

The other problem is that I am not working on my books and op-ed (the ones that pay) pieces as there are only two of us. So we need to be able to pay some freelancers to help.

The other staffer is the column editor, but the columnists do not get paid anything. At this point, we need to fund the news side more than the opinion side.

So it is far more than simple funding, it is that we need hardware, software, and volunteers in various areas. We decided to do it now because the work on the Brit documents cost more in research than the ad sales brought in a single month, not that they bring a great deal, but that was the turning point as to "why now".

I will say that I have not yet paid myself as I am waiting to see how much we raise so I can ration out as needed. Also, anyone not comfortable donating, need not do so or if they wish to help, but not donate, then help is much appreciated.

Anyway, let me know what you think of my idea on writing to Apple maybe. Is that something that would/could work?

One more thing:

I think those trying to make the latest faux scandal may want to actually consider that we have the work already to show where our limited funds go. So it is not like this is "pre-something". Again, slander and libel seems to be the only function these people have in their lives. That an torture support. The culture of lies does not merge well with reality.

Note to Psychotics who Sold Their Souls for Trickle Down Propaganda:

I do not intend on posting "documents" to prove what we have already done, which is proof enough of what we need to do and cannot do alone. In other words, the little eyes reading this (and every other comment on this forum because their lives are really that pointless) better think twice about making this smear game a reality, especially the forum owner, as I do believe actual libel and false accusations of fraud are not covered. I am not in surgery at the moment, and I can and will react. Got that kiddos?


End of note tot psychotics.





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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Thank you for that explanation - and I'm glad you're not backing down
Edited on Mon Jun-20-05 01:00 PM by Nothing Without Hope
from the pathetic scum who are trying to smear this fundraiser. Their seeing "scams" and evil intent everywhere says something revealing about THEM but is unrelated to what you are doing here. So sad that a whole web site had to be put up to debunk the smear campaign against Andy Stephenson, and at such a crisis-filled time in his life. He sacrificed his medical privacy to try to convince these ghouls that his pancreatic cancer and surgery for it at Johns Hopkins are real:
http://www.andythanksyou.com
What kind of vermin harass and spread lies about a seriously ill man like this? How can they live with themselves? Well, that's their problem, not ours.

Actually, I have not yet donated but plan to. I could get you one of the pre-paid phone cards from CostCo - they are a very good deal and you could all share the number so you could use just one. They do work for overseas calls too, though of course the rates are higher than for domestic ones. (I don't know if they're the best deal for that. Maybe another kind of card would have a better deal, especially a particular country were called most often.) For US calls the cost works out to something under 3 cents a minute, which is hard to beat. At purchase they are good for hours of use (I don't know how many at present, last time I looked it was about 10). They can also be recharged to extend their "minutes remaining" and time of expiration, which I think is about a year. It's a bit of a pain to call the 800 connection number and then put in the PIN each time, but I think it's worth it.

Would this be useful to you?

Re writing to Apple, why not? What's the down side? If they say no, what has been lost?
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. In re: writing to Apple - sounds good - I do a lot of fundraising
for different causes. You might want to consider becoming a non-profit if you want donations. Email me if you want fundraising info.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Excellent point. You are so far below the profit line, you are not only
"non-profit" you are almost "anti-profit." FLDem5, do you know if there are any requirements for being non-political? Does that affect the exact status you apply for? Could Raw Story become a 501C3?

Perhaps such a move might also make it possible to get into some kind of health insurance group plan? That is such an essential, and another difference between corporate media employees and our courageous truth-tellers.
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Well that would be a suggestion for John as he owns
Raw Story. I simply work there. I shall forward this discussion to him asap. Although, not sure what constraints are placed on a not-for profit reporting.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Rawstory probably couldn't
but a "friends of independant media" group could - with Rawstory as their primary recipient.
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Well, this stuff is way over my head...
But if this is possible, a "friends of alternative media" or something then yes for sure... speaking on my own behalf only of course. The health insurance would be nice given that one of us is very ill, as we all know... might be nice.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Now that is a SENSATIONAL idea. Raw Story is a vital resource that all
us depend on, surely there would be a group of people who could form a "Friends of Independent Media" group. And donations would be tax-deductable.

Progressives are aware that the corporate media are propaganda mouthpieces for the corrupt Bush Administration, but what to do about it? This would be a strong step to take to fight for the truth.

Oh, I LIKE this. The funds raised could also be used for selected other threatened independent news venues. For example, the last I heard, the Guy James show was going to be closed down for lack of funds:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3862360
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. its a little complicated -
there is a lot of paperwork - I won't hijack this thread with it. It requires a budget, mission statement and the like. It can't be a political organization, no one in the organization can make a profit from it, etc.

But as a non-profit, you can engage in a lot of good fundraising opportunities that are only availabe to non-profits.

There are many ways to fundraise without this for money, goods or services right now, but for sustaining donations, it would be helpful.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. It makes so much sense - organizing a nonprofit "Friends of Independent
News Media" and soliciting contributions to support non-propaganda news. I bet a LOT of concerned progressives would contribute. It would be an answer not only to Raw Story's financial and resource problems but to the frustration that progressives feel in trying to counter the Poodle Press, which of course has huge resources but lies and distorts what they report. Not just Raw Story (if its owner is interested) but other progressive news venues could be encouraged and supported this way. It would be as it should be - a community effort. It's not right that these hardworking, courageous people be in effect penalized for giving so much of themselves to seeing that we all get the truth.

We could start a new thread on such an organization at some point if some people who are knowledgable in the area could be coaxed into participating.

In the meantime, we need to support Raw Story the old-fashioned way. I've PMed several friends that might help spread the word, and it would be good if others reading this did the same. Not everyone has the funds to contribute, but they can at least help spread the word.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. We just need a minimal board and a lawyer
willing to review the paperwork pro bono - I will volunteer to help with the basics - another date - another thread!
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. For Raw Story, will of course also need to get feedback from the owner,
Edited on Mon Jun-20-05 09:25 PM by Nothing Without Hope
John Byrne. But I would think such a nonprofit organization would be a great boost for progressive news outlets.

We cannot let these courageous, generous news venue owners and workers burn out for lack of basic support for their work. WE CANNOT.

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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I am thinking of just writring my own letter
And see. Cannnot hurt.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
16. Recommended. We must do everything possible to support Raw Story!


"... we sent our young people into harm's way without leveling with the American people." - Congresswoman Pelosi before Congress, 16 June 2005



Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - Impeachment of Bush and Cheney; indictment and prosecution of all members of the Bush regime who participated in the deception, should be campaign promises of any candidate worthy of our vote in the 2006 Congressional elections.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
27. kick n/t
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Wow, you guys
Are amazing. Starting a not-for profit just like magic... thank you... and let's spread the funds around to other alternative press sources.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. It would make so much sense. It's a common predicament - progressive
news venues struggling to make ends meet while working so hard to find the truth and get it to the public. We all must agree that in the current state of this country, with administration-controlled corporate media suppressing and distorting the truth and outright lying to support the criminals in power, it must be a VERY high priority to get past that stonewall on truth. But what can we do? This would be a very direct and effective way for concerned citizens to support true journalism at a time when it is most urgently needed.

Many people would donate and offer other support, I am sure of it. So many people want to do SOMETHING to help get past the news barricade, but only a few are actully in the position to research and publish news. This is a way for the rest to support those courageous, generous, vitally important few for the good of all. Raw Story and other progressive, independent news venues provide a critically important service for us all and deserve support to continue the work.

Please have John look over this thread and the message from the lawyer I PMed to you earlier today. See how he responds to the idea.
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. I will copy and paste as he is half
Dead for a big (ASS) story for tomorrow.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Please tell him he has more support than he may realize. We've just
needed to be reminded that practical support was needed and now to find an effective way to gather and deliver it. The work you people at Raw Story is VITAL to us all!

:applause: :yourock: :applause:
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. you might send him over to WorkingAssets.com as an example
the people involved "vote" on where the money goes by percentages. They have been my long-distance carrier forever, and I love them for their great work - but I digress.

I thought of nominating some of my favorite websites for Working Asset's funds, but noted that they had to be non-profit to do so. Most blogs and message boards run fundraisers independently - a pool would definately reach more people. Also, people can donate merchandise to non-profits, write it off (which is a huge motivator for businesses) and it can be raffled off or given as prizes at fundraisers. There are also tons of grants out there for for non-profits - a talented grant writer with time on their hands can be a huge blessing. The only sticky part would be that it would have to be based in one state and internet fundraising would need an attorney's touch - I don't have any experience raising money across state lines.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Great site! Bookmarked and ready for referral. Effective fundraising
and fine services too.

Didn't know about Working Assets, but I do check the political contribution/ employee treatment record of companies whose products I am considering buying:
http://www.buyblue.org/

I was glad to see CostCo is a blue company - the other discount warehouse companies are not.

...and :kick:
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PuraVidaDreamin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
35. ahhhh, so that's what happened
Guys- I did the $fitty to Mr Conyors a few wks ago

Gave 20.00 the Symbolman last week- had 2 b-days, fathers day

So Next payday WEEK AND A HALF FROM NOW, I will contribute.

Love it RAW!
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
37. kick!
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
38. Kick - for the early AM crowd n/t
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
39. kick - we'll may want to start a new thread now that this one is off the
Greatest Page.
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Al-CIAda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 11:27 AM
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40. .
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 12:42 PM
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41. kick for the Tues afternoon crowd n/t
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 05:18 PM
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42. kick for the evening crowd n/t
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-05 03:19 PM
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43. Another kick - but we really should be starting a new thread, I think n/t
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-05 08:59 PM
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44. kick - more people need to see this n/t
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