Dean's Mistake: missing qualifiers and framing

[Clarkie1]

The mistake Dean made was that he didn't qualifiy the word "Christian." "Radical religious right," or as Clark puts it "the Christian wrong" would have been a more effective, precise, and tent-expanding message.

I think Dean is doing a good job as chair, but I don't think the words he chose yesterday were sufficient to deliver the message in the best possible way.

This is not an attack on Dean, I supported him as chair and still do.

[bluedog]

1. I think he used the right words

remember with the Schiavo case ...that was a whole entire White wing base working here in Florida.........he knew this was true

as those of us who were inconvenienced by it.

Totally WHITE Wing NUTS.....I'm just sorry he didn't go farther and say these groups should be taxed if they want to get into the political game!

[Clarkie1]

3. He didn't qualify the word "Christian"

That's my only problem with it.

The message would have been better and more effective if he had.

[Island Blue]

2. I agree with your assessment

I think he (and we) should hate the game not the playa'.

Speak more to the many, many "sins" of today's Republican party, and less on personalities or generalized descriptions of people within the party. Goodness knows if he did that he'd have enough material to talk about to last a life time.

I know people will argue that if he did that he wouldn't be getting the massive attention he's now getting, and I see that point but that's just my opinion. Ain't nobody listening to me anyway!

[nankerphelge]

4. The Christian left is a myth

We need new religious institutions.

[Clarkie1]

5. "The Christian Left is a Myth"

That is exactly the meme Dean's unfortunate statement will promote.

Christ was a radical liberal leftie, and that's the message we need to get through to people!

[Joe Kerr]

7. Why point that out at all?

Strictly speaking, the message, in whatever words you phrase it, that the large majority of Republicans are Christians is true.

Was it the right thing to say though? I think that Dean was mis-guided in saying it.

[ima_sinnic]

21. so how would you characterize the "diversity" of the Repukes

if asked directly to do so?

I'm waiting . . .

[LoZoccolo]

9. 21% of white evangelical Christians voted for Kerry.

And that's not counting all the minorities. Want to create a Republican super-mandate next time, by pushing them over? They're working on it by serving low-income communities through the faith-based initiative, and using aggressive rhetoric about religion from our side to do it.

[LittleClarkie]

12. I've never been called mythological before

Still waiting for my super power though.

We're here, and we'll be damned if we'll let the Republicans own God. How can someone be against "persons of faith" Sen. Frist, when that someone IS a person of faith.

I gots a whole church fulla Democrats who'd probably like to pick a bone with you.

[KittyWampus]

15. Well, Color Me Part Of The "Myth" Then.

[theboss]

17. So, black people don't count?

I wish people would remember that 85 to 90 percent of blacks vote for us...and they are by church attendance, the most religious group of people in the country.

[lojasmo]

25. Black people are not, by any stretch of the imagination, "the left" EOM

[theboss]

26. And if we lose 10 percent of them, there is no Democratic Party

Attacking religion might be the way to do it.

[lojasmo]

38. 10% of the black electorate is 0.8% of the democratic vote.

Hardly the deconstruction of the party that you envision.

[GreenArrow]

36. unfortunately for the Christian left

being a Christian dictates that one cannot use the same sort of tactics and strategies that the so-called Christian right does; i.e., lying, slandering, cheating, diss-a-sembling, and so forth. The right succeeds becuase it is vicious and unprincipled.

[Sooner75]

6. Issues

I'd like to see Howard Dean succeed as DNC chair.

I'd also like to see him stick to the issues and resist the enormous temptation to resort to characterizations like the "white Christian" one. (Even if it's 100% true, it's not going to help our cause.)

If we're going to beat the Republicans, we're going to do it by challenging them on our issues. Embryonic stem cell research is a good example. We've got the high ground on that one and, they know it. The majority of Americans WANT that research to go forward.

Characterizing them just won't work. Showing that we've got a better public policy agenda on a number of issues WILL.

I'd like to see Howard Dean step back, take a deep breath, dust himself off, and press for our issues. He did that quite well on the campaign trail in 2004. I know that he can make our issues stick. THEN, we'll see 'em squirm.

[pat_k]

18. He always speaks out on things that matter to voters

Dean does stick to the issues!

Out of 1000 statements and assertions, there are probably a handful of the type of characterizations you describe. It is up to us to keep the attention on what he is saying. The analstocracy will do everything in their power to shift attention to the petty and trivial. They will only succeed if we, and the leaders in the party like Biden, take the bait.

[ima_sinnic]

22. he was asked a direct question about the diversity of the 2 parties

. . . how would YOU answer it? he shouldn't speak the truth? Frankly I'd MUCH rather hear an answer like that -- blunt, to the point, and right on the mark -- than some namby-pamby, "politicially correct" and morally bankrupt, dishonest appeasing middle-of-the-road statement that only EMPOWERS the loonies in charge.

[Sooner75]

23. Knowing what to say and what NOT to say

The "white Christian" comment just wasn't smart. OK?

He's in a high visibility position and, he's gotta do better than that. That's what Biden, Edwards and others have been saying about this.

If asked, "How do you see thee diversity within the two major political parties?" I think the way to answer that is to say: "I see a lot more diversity in the Democratic Party. We've always been the party that reaches out and listens to the concerns of Hispanic people, black people, white people, urban people, rural people, women, men, Christians, Jews, Muslims... We want everyone to have a voice. Frankly, I don't see the Republican Party trying to achieve that kind of diversity."

Notice I characterized OUR diversity, but didn't really say much about theirs. Nothing for the talking heads to latch onto.

[ima_sinnic]

34. whatever. if you know what the DNC chair should say, maybe

you should go for the job -- or become an aide or speechwriter or something.

and what you said would have gotten NO PRESS and would have been shrugged off.

[Larkspur]

31. Don't regurgitate the Rightwing talking points

Geez!

[Geek_Girl]

8. I would agree Except

He would not have gotten the media exposure if he qualified his statement. He played it right to get the attention of the main stream media.

Dean gets to be the bold brash leftie garnering support from the dem base and the dem representative get their mugs on tv while distancing themselves just a tad from Dean's rhetoric.

IMHO this is excellent Dem strategy.

Way to go Dean and Way to go Dems!

:applause:

[cornermouse]

10. And if Dean had said republicans live in all 50 states, they would

have attacked him and distorted the statement. The fact is as far as the republicans are concerned it doesn't matter what Dean says, its all going to be turned into something they can use against him.

[Island Blue]

13. Maybe that should be his next statement

Just to watch them spin.

[pat_k]

16. And it's up to us to turn the tables on them

Sure, they will try to make mountains out of molehills.

It is up to us to turn the tables on them. If we don't take the bait, and use each attach as an opportunity to talk about something that is actually important to voters, we defang them.

[Ksec]

11. Your problem is you are running with failure

Failure is what that nice guy act gets us.

Im sick of doing the nice guy act.

Its a recipe for failure in politics. People in this country think were weak because of this dainty BS.

[pat_k]

14. Stop taking the Bait!!

Dean {should have/shouldn't have] said it. Who cares!

Don't take the bait!

The minute you start talking about whether or not it was a mistake, you are on their turf ("not a mistake" assertions are akin to "don't think of an elephant" i.e., you are in the "mistake" frame).

So, what do we do? (You might ask)

There is no need to say anything about the bits the analstocracy are obsessed with. Simply go on the attack and shift attention to the substance of his remarks.

It is wrong for certain classes of voters to face an eight hour wait to cast a ballot. At "Take Back America" Dean spoke out against this terrible wrong. He was right on. Hours-long poll-tax-lines for poor, minority voters AND none for affluent, white voters is intolerable.

His remarks in context:

We need to be the party of election reform. We ought to do everything we can to make it easier for more Americans to vote. The Republicans are all about suppressing votes; two voting machines if you live in a black district, 10 voting machines if you live in a white district. I think every single American ought to be able to vote! I used to say in the campaign -- I meant this sincerely -- I would rather have you go out and vote, even if you vote Republican, than stay home. I really would…

"You -- you know, the idea that you have to wait on line for eight hours to cast your ballot in Florida -- there's something the matter with that. You think people can work all day and then pick up their kids at child care or wherever, and get home and then have a -- still manage to sandwich in an eight-hour vote? Well, Republicans, I guess, can do that, because a lot of them have never made an honeI am hoping that youwill help shift attention to the REAL scandal.st living in their lives. <b>But for ordinary working people, who have to work eight hours a day, they have kids, they got to get home to those kids, the idea of making them stand for eight hours to cast their ballot for democracy is wrong.


When the analstocracy went after him for the "honest living" comment, they handed us an opportunity to shift the focus to the real scandal: the Republican policy of systematic vote suppression. Mehlman even told us that he planned to employ suppression part of an all out effort to "do whatever we can to help make sure Jerry Kilgore becomes the next governor of the state” (see http://www.democrats.org/news/200505310003.html ).

Dean is standing up for free and fair elections. Mehlman seeks to undermine democracy by selectively challenging voters who intend to cast their vote for an opponent.

Instead of getting caught up in the Dean bashing game, we move to our turf by talking about the horrors of the last election and pointing out Mehlman's much more serious sins against democracy.

Over and over again, Mehlman plays by the Norquist playbook, where the ends justify the means. We saw it when he violated the law as Bush-Cheney campaign manager (http://eqs.sdrdc.com/eqsdocs/00002BFD.pdf ), and more recently, when he attempted to use deceit to conceal deceit on Meet the press. (His demonstrably false claim that disclosures in the Downing Street Memo "have been totally discredited by everyone who's looked at it. See http://mediamatters.org/items/200506060008).

Get the complete transcript of what Dean had to say today. He ALWAYS raises substantive issues. Anytime they attack a "gaff" you just need to find the context, and shift attention to the points he made on things that really matter to voters.

[howmad1]

19. Right on!

Pat_k. Sure wish those who think Dean misspoke would sit down and enumerate the number of remarks spoken by rethuglicans against dems. So where was the outrage by DU'ers and dems? Come on folks, lets stop eating our own. Biden and Richardson are doing a great job for all of us.

[pat_k]

20. Here are a few gems from members of the GOP

Here are few gems from "Take Them at Their Words," by Bruce J Miller with Diana Maio.

I always see two Jewish communities in America, one of deep intellect and one of shallow, superficial intellect... Liberals are in my estimation just not bright people. They don't think deeply; they don't comprehend; they have a narrow education base, as opposed to the hard scientists... --Dick Army AP 9-24-02

Mr. Clinton better watch it if he comes down here. He'd better have a body guard. --Jesse Helms, Boston Globe, 11-23-94

By the way, it's probably a good thing that Vice President Gore wasn't at Independence Hall in 1776! I bet he would have tried to talk Jefferson out of that risky independence scheme! --Gov. Tom Ridge PBS.org, 8-3-00

Today's Democrat leaders do not understand leadership. They reduce principles to tactics. They talk endlessly and confront nothing. They offer, not conviction, but alibies. They are paralysed by indecision, weakened by scandal, and guided only by the perpetuation of their own power. --Peramble to the Republican Party Platform, adopted 8-12-96

We're going to keep on building the party {the Texas GOP} until we are hunting Democrats with dogs. --Phil Gramm 8-95

We're the only nation in the world where all our poor people are fat. -- Phil Gram, 12-95

When I see someone who's making anywhere from $300,000 to $750,000 a year, that's middle class. --Rep. Fred Heinman (R-NC)

Note: Putting Heinman's comment in context. Although it is very tough to get a breakdown of the wealthest Americans (http://www.michaelparenti.org/Superrich.html), an analysis of the Bush tax plan back in 2000 indicated that the annual income for the top 1 percent (yes, that's one percent) of Americans started at $319.000 (http://www.ctj.org/html/bush0500.htm).

[Catchawave]

24. I wonder if there are any Democrats in this group:

WHO- The White Camelia Knights of the Ku Klux Klan is a group of men and women (families) that share a common belief in religion and race. We are not the Knights of the White Kamellia, Ku Klux Klan. Neither do we have any affiliation to this organization.

WHAT- An organization of White Christians dedicated to the truth and education in a world of lies and ignorance.

WHERE- The White Camelia Knights of the Ku Klux Klan is based in Texas, but with membership spread throughout many other states.

WHEN- The original White Camelia was organized in 1867, two years after the original Ku Klux Klan was formed in Puluski, Tennessee. It has been reported that the White Camelia became larger than the original Ku Klux Klan in membership and power.

WHY- The White Camelia Knights of the Ku Klux Klan believes that White Christian ideals are under attack by anti-white and anti-Christ forces. We believe our race, country and our Christian way of life is being systematically destroyed.

HOW TO JOIN- Requirements for membership are simple. You must be 100% White, have an open mind to learn Christian Identity and be willing to follow Klan rules and regulations. For Requirements and Info on joining, Click Here.

....more... http://www.wckkkk.com/who.html

[bvar22]

27. Mistake???....What mistake???

Go Dean!

[usregimechange]

28. Very true, needs to need more Lakoff.

[ElectroPrincess]

29. Oh please, you don't fire people up that way and the Right Wingers

seemingly always hit below the belt by promoting false patriotism, instilling fear and encouraging hatred and discrimination.

And you are DIS'ing Dr. Dean for NOT using qualifiers!?!

Wake up! Please wake up and realize that this is down and dirty HARDBALL, take no prisoners, politics now. We must play hard or be assimilated. Make your choice citizen! ;) <a little tongue in cheek>

[Larkspur]

30. Dem Leaders mistake -- cowardice

All Biden, Edwards, Pelosi, etc. had to say when confronted with the Dean quote that the Media intentionally took out of context is this -- "I didn't hear Dean's speech for myself, but both Dean and I agree that Republican leaders and lawmakers are hurting America and working Americans."

"Offense is the best Defense." That is how you defend your fellow Dem who is being unfairly pilliored by the corporate controled Media and attack the Repukes at the same time.

[bitchkitty]

32. He didn't qualify and

as a result, it got more airplay and more people heard it.

I don't think it was a mistake.

[ozone_man]

33. That's right.

It is more effective to just state the truth plainly. Christian "right" or "wrong" introduces an unecessary and contentious aspect into the basic fact that it is a Party of white Christians, which BTW, does not imply the converse that all white Christians are Republicans. Most people can figure out which white Christians are in the Republican Party without opening up a debate on Christianity. Save that for another time. :)

Really, he is addressing the diversity issue and the fact that the Republican Party does not stand for diversity, while the Democratic Party does, so, wake up people.

[ima_sinnic]

35. why do we have to parse every word the man says?

he is one of the FEW high-profile Democrats with the cajones to say it like it is. This quality is what made him a star in the primaries (until subverted by DLC/media/pukes) and brought in record-breaking amounts of cash. He is still succeeding in bringing in the dough and in galvanizing the grassroots. He was asked a direct question about diversity and answered it honestly. His overt hatred of the Republican agenda and way of doing things is pretty much exactly the way we here on DU see the situation. So GO HOWARD GO, DON'T GIVE THEM ANY SLACK!

[Lone_Wolf]

37. He should have said white, born-again, evangelical Christians...

But still, I suspect that the only people who were offended by Dean's statement were people who think of themselves as white, Christians. Namely white, born-again, evangelical Christians.

An interesting tidbit is, people who identify themselves as born-again, evangelical Christians only make up 7% of the American population.