MASSIVE Freeper denial re military recruiting

[TexasLawyer]

This NYT article? Just liberal propaganda! Read on:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1413013/posts

The Death Spiral of the Volunteer Army
NY Times ^ | 5/29/05

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld likes to talk about transforming America's military. But the main transformation he may leave behind is a catastrophic falloff in recruitment for the country's vital ground fighting forces: the Army and the Marine Corps. The recruitment chain that has given the United States highly qualified, highly skilled and highly motivated ground forces for the three decades since the government abandoned the draft has started to break down.

This is astonishing, even allowing for the administration's failure to prepare Americans honestly for how long and difficult the occupation of Iraq would be. There are over 60 million American men and women between 18 and 35, the age group sought by Army recruiters. Getting the 80,000 or so new volunteers the Army needs to enlist each year ought not to be such a daunting challenge. There are obvious attractions to joining the world's most powerful, prestigious and best-equipped ground fighting forces, and in so doing qualifying for valuable benefits like college tuition aid.

<snip>

Check out some of the responses!!!:
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To: Crackingham

Why this is happening is no mystery. Two years of hearing about too few troops on the ground, inadequate armor, extended tours of duty and accelerated rotations back into combat have taken their toll, discouraging potential enlistees and their parents.

Actually it's mostly the improving economy.

What's hilarious is that most of the countries in the world with a draft are looking at abandoning it in favor of a smaller all-volunteer force, in imitiation of the United States (including Russia.)

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To: WhiteKnight

Written by Charlie Rangel, no doubt. Of course, Rangel's angle is that he won't vote for it, he'll only enable others to do so.

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To: Crackingham

The recruitment chain that has given the United States highly qualified, highly skilled and highly motivated ground forces for the three decades since the government abandoned the draft has started to break down.

Of course, it's all Rumsfields fault (sarcasm) Couldn't have anything to do with several troops being charged and tried for performing their duty, could it? Couldn't have anything to do with daily, almost hourly, negative reports about the troops and the War on Terror, could it? No, of course not, it's all Rumsfield.

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To: Crackingham

See, here's the problem. Republican kids enlist because they want to serve their country and it's the right thing to do.

Democrat kids used to enlist to get all the freebees and never figured they'd actually have to do anything to get them, like risk their lives. Now that half the country is each, the recruitment pool has been cut in half. SOMEBODY is still enlisting, but you can bet it's not democrat kids.

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To: Crackingham

"Why this is happening is no mystery. Two years of hearing about too few troops on the ground, inadequate armor, extended tours of duty and accelerated rotations back into combat have taken their toll, discouraging potential enlistees and their parents. The citizen-soldiers of the Guard and Reserves have suddenly become full-time warriors."

Horse Hockey, It's the Fish Wraps like the NYT's demonizing our Military with their constant drumbeat of "Anything that trashes the USA" articles. The reason why RAGS like the NYT's do this is clear....... George W. Bush is a Republican, and a threat to their Liberal agenda.

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To: Crackingham

This is simply part of the lefts agenda of having a draft reinsated so they can blame Bush for it. The article here neglects to mention that the recruitment for Marines is stable and that air force and navy, and I would presume Coast Guard, are up.

This drop in the army recruitment is probably temporary and will sort out sooner or later. The left loves to jump in and push the draft obliquely. It's hard to deride the Military when it is all volunteer, volunteers do not make good victims, draftees do!

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To: Brilliant

I have no doubt that the NY Slime is once again doing a liberal hit-piece and is once again wrong, as usual.

WhiteKnight
Retired USAF

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To: kimosabe31

NYT is never right.
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To: Abcdefg

and rarely correct.
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To: Crackingham

I can't even read this. The whole problem could be solved by shutting down the NY Times, et al.

This article really needed a barf alert!



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To: Crackingham

I just looked at the title of this piece and knew that it was going to be one of those BS "The Draft is Coming" articles that the DU crowd loves so much. I wouldn't expect anything more (or less) from the NY Slimes.

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To: Crackingham

As a retired military and former Drill Instructor, I see many more reasons for the return of the Draft than just filling billits.

Many of these young men just need some dicipline in their lives -- Period!

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To: Crackingham

Here we go again!

Leftists trying to scare young people into believing Bush will restart the draft. Nevermind that Don Rumsfeld himself as a young congressman in the late 1960's was an advocate of abolishing the draft. And nevermind that the last time a draft was started by a Republican was the Civil War, ext, ext.

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To: Crackingham

Two years of hearing about too few troops on the ground, inadequate armor, extended tours of duty and accelerated rotations back into combat have taken their toll, discouraging potential enlistees and their parents.

These unreal b*stards. They create a problem, then "lament" the problem's existence. If this isn't treason, it's about as close as you can get without selling state secrets.

[funflower]

1. Feel free to enlist, freeps!

Show us you don't believe the NYT!

[snowbear]

2. OMG.. what a bunch of sick bastards

And one of them calls himself "White Knight".. What is that all about??? :scared: :scared: :scared:

[MadisonProgressive]

8. These people are not in denial

You have to have a clue first to be in denial!

[Fridays Child]

3. Freeperbole™

[LiberalVoice]

4. Is this true?

"The article here neglects to mention that the recruitment for Marines is stable and that air force and navy, and I would presume Coast Guard, are up."

[MadisonProgressive]

6. I know for a fact that the marines are missing quotas

not sure asbout the others

[HawkerHurricane]

12. Since the Navy is cutting personel...

then I can presume it's making 'quota'. Don't make quota? Don't cut as many people that quarter.

[TreasonousBastard]

17. Marines and Army are down,,,

Navy and AF are stable. Coast Guard may have even closed recruiting again.

Simple truth is that a lot of the kids are getting the message that if you want to wear a uniform, you have much less of a chance of getting your ass blown off in the Navy or AF. Besides, the Marines have far fewer technical specialties that might get you a job when you get out, and the Army is contracting out the better specialties.

As a counselor, I tell them if you absolutely, positively have to join something, just don't join the Marines, and try not to join the Army. In any case, get a written guarantee of MOS and duty assignment, although there may be a waiting list for the best stuff.

[wtmusic]

5. "Rumsfield"

Who told them that were reinstating a draft so we can blame Bush for it? Who let the cat out of the bag???? :rofl:

[MadisonProgressive]

7. This one kills me!

And nevermind that the last time a draft was started by a Republican was the Civil War, ext, ext.

Do you think he meant 'etc., etc.'???

[MadisonProgressive]

9. This may be the best - please note the irony!

There these NYT people go again!

The National Guard should NEVER be lumped with the Army Reserve. It was instituted as a home guard, a bulwark, as it were, against invasion of the homeland.

The major recruiting carrot for the National Guard has always been that they would NOT be called upon to fill up the ranks of the standing ARMY. That is the function of the Army Reserve.

In return, the enlistment in the Guard is 8 years instead of 3 and there are no benefits. No GI bill, no veterans' benefits. In fact, ex-Guard members cannot even call themselves veterans.

This is all academic, however, because since when did rules and promises ever mean anything to the liberals who infest our government? The Guard is the very first place they go to to find bodies whenever there is a dustup somewhere.

Who wants to join the Guard just to be lied to by the government?

[high density]

13. What liberals in the government called up the Nat. Guard to go to Iraq?

Even Bush-loving Republicans I've talked to can't stand the idea that we have sent so many of our National Guardsmen over to Iraq.

It's kind of amazing and sad that the Freepers can't get the fact into their heads that it's the Republican idiots that THEY voted for who are doing all of these things to destroy our country. I really wish they'd name what liberals are "infesting" this GOP-controlled government.

[ET Awful]

18. Actually contrary to this idiot's posting, the Guard is eligible for the

GI Bill, has been for many, many years. http://www.1800goguard.com/education/education_college_gibill.html Look it up yourself.

Also, what the Guard was instituted for and what the BUSH family has used it for are two totally different things. In Vietnam, very few Guard troops were activated, in fact most folks in that era that joined the Guard did so to avoid going to Vietnam (like your beloved Bush for instance who enlisted in the Guard expressly to avoid Vietnam by checking the box "do not volunteer for overseas duty"). In Desert Storm, Guard troops were sent by a REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION. In the current conflict a very significant portion of the troops on the ground are Guard troops sent by a REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION.

Does the ignorance of these people know no bounds?

Also - enlistment in ANY branch of the service is for 8 years. Some active, some inactive. You can enlist in the guard for 4 active 4 inactive, just as you can in the Army.

Unless he is referring to Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the rest who are responsible for Guard troops being in Iraq today as liberals, I suggest he shut the fuck up.

[magellan]

10. "Actually it's mostly the improving economy."

Oh, of course! And those damn demo kids who aren't willing to risk their lives playing BushCo's special game of roulette like the kool-aid swilling repukes!

:freak:

I'll say one thing for Freepers, they're always totally willing to embarrass themselves by offering up the most pathetic arguments for what they don't know or don't understand.

[qnr]

11. The funny thing is, they're so busy blaming the NYT, Democratic kids,

and actual circumstances (gee, if they just wouldn't report the facts, everything would be fine) that they can't even see that it is being reported as happening on Rumsfelds watch. That comment about "Of course, it's all Rumsfields fault (sarcasm)" is hilarious, especially since they're so fond of spouting off about "peronal responsibility" -- sheesh, it's not like the paper is saying Rummy is out there slapping potential recruits upside the head and telling them to go away, just that he's the friggin' Secretary of Defense while it is happening - or are they implying that he has no impact on the services what-so-ever?

[truthisfreedom]

14. they're watching us, and reading this thread. hey freepers, ENLIST.

put your freeping ass where your mouth is. anything else you do is F***ING BULLSH*T. go die for your beloved bushco.

[Vickers]

27. Exactly! Hey freepers, I enlisted, how about you?

Yeah, that's what I thought. Typical RW chickenshit chickenhawks, just like your "heroes" George, Dick, Sean, Karl, and Rush.

:eyes:

P.S. Flying planes around Texas with an instructor does not count as military service.

[izzie]

15. Since big corp. own the news we get ,I would say it really is----

worst then they are telling us. Every thing the news has said of late turns out to be that way. Right down to dropping the cost of gas off the cost of living rates.If the govt. or news tells us anything it must be re-checked all over to see if they all have the same story. Best to read papers out side the USA while we can still get them. These Christian stations are feeding so much news to the 'far right' zealots they will only believe that type of stuff any how. Scary. It seems they are also willing to have their sons die for Bush 's ego. It is not the first time in history we have had to live in this way.

[Divernan]

20. Bushco dropped gasoline from cost of living adjustments?!?!?

I missed that piece of news! That is totally outrageous, since transportation costs - to work, for medical care, etc., are a much larger part of individual budgets for the poor &/or "middle class", than for the GOP special interest groups. I guess next time around, Bush will order his minions to drop food costs from the calculations.

[izzie]

16. They always look at it like that. They never look at the problem

It is like taking on the font style of type in the paper because you do not like what they print. Both sides do it but the GOP does it so well.

[Enraged_Ape]

19. That's right, Freepers, tell me all the reasons Republican kids enlist

while you sit there at your keyboard drinking Coke, eating Cheetos, and beating off to Internet porn...comfortably away from the U.S. soldiers who are dying every day.

Get your ass to a recruitment station and join up, assholes. Show me that your monkey king is worth fighting and dying for.

[MsTryska]

21. heh.....i was jsut mentioning at another site

that i'm sick and tired of the military doing commericals targeting blakc and latino kids, and trying to entice them with College Tuition Aid.


I want to see a "Patriotism is more than sporting a ribbon magnet on your car. Join up." ad campaing, playing on every station, once every hour.

[SOS]

22. By the numbers:

2004 election results

19,802,575 votes cast in 2004 presidential election by people 18-29.

45% of those votes went to Bush.

8,911,158 people (18-29) voted for Bush.

How is it possible that the Army can't meet it's recruitment needs? There are nearly 9 million young Bush voters out there.

[splat@14]

23. WTF?

So if this is true:

"See, here's the problem. Republican kids enlist because they want to serve their country and it's the right thing to do.

Democrat kids used to enlist to get all the freebees and never figured they'd actually have to do anything to get them, like risk their lives. Now that half the country is each, the recruitment pool has been cut in half. SOMEBODY is still enlisting, but you can bet it's not democrat kids."

Then, I guess the members of the current adminstration must be Democrats as none of them have been in the military and only Shrub has ever wore a uniform. The entire complement of military volunteers ever in this administration left with one guy....Colin Powell. The rest of these cowards and dodgers can pound sand!

Splat!
Viet Nam Vet

[Arugula Latte]

24. What a bunch of hosebags!

Seriously, they couldn't be more ignorant.

[TexasLawyer]

26. Paid RW shills

I think a large portion of the posts on FreeRepublic are written by RWers on someone's payroll, possibly all sitting together in a well-appointed "boiler-room."

Why? It's well known that RW hack authors like Jerome Corsi, co-author of that fine "Swift Boat Veterans" book, make hundreds of posts on FreeRepublic. I doubt that he sits there doing it for his health.

You seldom find long posts on FR. Long posts are often heart-felt outpourings of feelings. People being paid by the hour, or being paid by the post, will just be going for the talking-point, sound-bite effect.

The biggest clue? How could anyone actually believe some of the absolutely bogus ideas that get floated on FR threads like this? That a news report on completely verifiable recruiting figures, with the information coming directly from the US government, is just "liberal propaganda." That soldiers are being blown to bits right and left in Iraq, and stop loss orders are preventing soldiers from ever getting out, yet people are not joining the military because of an "improving economy". Give me a break!!! Few people are THAT dumb.

If someone is actually ignorant enough to believe things like these, then one would expect many more misspellings and much poorer grammar, organization, and compositional style.

Anyway, just my 2 cents on the Freeper world.

[Spectral]

25. Actually, there is one statement I agree with

"Couldn't have anything to do with several troops being charged and tried for performing their duty, could it?"

I think that the low-level army people getting court martialed for following torture orders probably affects recruiting. I mean, if you knew that if you joined the army you would be ordered to put prisoners in human pyramids and then could get court martialed for it, even when you were just following orders, wouldn't you think twice?

If I knew that I could be punished for following my boss's orders, hell YES I would be scared to sign up.