Here is your "BULLSHIT OF THE DAY" email !!!!!

[Maraya1969]

Any other thoughts on this one is appreciated. I have already found the explanation from Snoops that it is fraught with lies. I always "reply to all" to these because I think we need to set these wing nuts in place - even if it daggers through just one of these hard heads. I truly think ANYONE who gets any of these emails should "reply to all". Remember the far right got its power through MASS MAIL.



Subject: Something to think about:(here is another worthy of forwarding)


Andy Rooney
DID YOU KNOW? As you walk up the steps to the build ing which houses the U.S. Supreme Court you can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view ... it is Moses and he is holding the Ten Commandments!


DID YOU KNOW?

As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two huge oak doors have the Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion of each door.



DID YOU KNOW?


As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see the wall,
right above where the Supreme Court judges sit,
a display of the Ten Commandments!


DID YOU KNOW?

There are Bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal Buildings and Monuments in Washington, D.C.


DID YOU KNOW?

James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement:


"We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."


DID YOU KNOW?


Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said:


"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".


DID YOU KNOW?


Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher, whose salary has been paid by the taxpayer since 1777.


DID YOU KNOW?



Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies.


DID YOU KNOW?

Thomas Jefferson worried that the Courts would overstep their authority and instead of interpreting the law would begin making law . an oligarchy


the rule of few over many.


DID YOU KNOW?


The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said:





"Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers."


How, then, have we gotten to the point that everything we have done for 220 years in this country is now suddenly wrong and unconstitutional?

Lets put it around the world and let the world see and remember what this great country was built o n.



Chamber, US House of Representatives



I was asked to send this on if I agreed or delete if I didn't. Now it is your turn...
It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore, it is very hard to understand why there is such a mess about having the Ten Commandments on display or "In God We Trust" on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just tell the other 14% to Sit Down and SHUT UP!!!

If you agree, pass this on

[Caution]

1. How about something simple

The majority of Americans agree with the separation of Church and State. The majority of Americans do not think that a person's faith should be the litmus test for service to one's country. The majority of Americans believe that the rights of the minority must be protected. So why don't you go and FUCK YOURSELF for telling me to shut up in the face of the first amendment of our Constitution, the very thing that your piece of shit email tramples all over, which states that I have every right to speak against this theocratic bullshit.

[Maraya1969]

2. I have recommend this page because we NEED to start debunking

these idiots that are trying to steal the country. The Senators and Congressmen and the friggin president and all his talking heads get their approval from this fringe group. We need to fight back at their level also!

EDIT: Just realized I can't recommend my own post!

[wryter2000]

5. Actually,

When I get these bullshit forwards I ask the person who sent it "Who wrote that?" and "Where did he get his information?" That usually shuts them up because they have no way to answer. About the only thing they can do is research all the crap themselves to try to verify that it's true.

This one is attributed to Andy Rooney, it seems. So, you could just ask where/when Andy Rooney actually said that. Snopes is a good resource, too.

[driver8]

24. I always ask people to stop sending me bullshit propoganda. n/t

[Maraya1969]

36. I just stuck up a post on what Andy Rooney said about the Ten

Commandments. A lot different from what that email tried to attribute to him.

[havocmom]

8. If you are using the band width to post the whole stupid thing, why not

also post the snopes response? Just sorta wondering. Why give the email more audience? At least let readers get a view of some of the snopes rebuttle.

[Maraya1969]

37. You are right. Here is the link

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp

I sent it around from the site itself so I couldn't find it in my "sent mail". Had to look all over for the thing again.

[chalky]

40. I am notorious for doing a "reply all" with the link from snopes

to debunk the garbage that comes my way. It's even come to the point where friends will forward it to me first for a Snopes blessing before passing it on. Yeah, they could look it up themselves but, hey...baby-steps, right? :D

[Sweet Freedom]

10. FYI: We have debunker for exactly this sort of thing

There is a DU group called the propaganda debunker:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=284

You're welcome to add your thread there (if it isn't already.) Just be sure to include the topic of the e-mail in your thread title. :)

[wryter2000]

3. Supreme Court

One of the displays of Moses shows him holding blank tablets. The other one has the last five Commandments in Hebrew, not English. Those five are the secular ones -- against stealing, murder, covetting, etc. They aren't the ones about honoring God, keeping the sabbath holy, etc.

Ask the person how many of the Commandments are actually part of our laws. All they can give you is theft and murder. You can even bear false witness if you don't do it under oath. There are no laws about honoring your father and mother, keeping the sabbath holy, covetting. And, in fact, Roy's rock and similar displays are graven images and in violation of that Commandment.

[DinahMoeHum]

4. Could you please post the link from Snopes? Thanks.

n/t

[stevedeshazer]

6. link here

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp

[blueheeler]

7. Most of that is just nonsense

Check out http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp
and see what is what!!!

[JRob]

9. my response (even if some of it is true) "so what"

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. *lol* Here you need to read

these blog entries I did as prompted by that same silly email.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/gpv/1281.html

http://www.livejournal.com/users/gpv/1697.html

[MsAnthropy]

12. Besides, isn't Andy Rooney a liberal?

This doesn't sound like him AT ALL.

[Maraya1969]

39. Several people have mentioned this. Here is what he said abou

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/04/60minutes/rooney/main571642.shtml

(CBS) A weekly commentary by CBS News Correspondent Andy Rooney.
<snip>

Religion and patriotism have a lot of the same characteristics. My objection three years ago was not so much to the plaque as it was to the wording of the Ten Commandments, themselves.

The First Commandment says "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me."
That never sounded like anything God would say. It sounds as if he was admitting there were other Gods but he wanted to be first among them. God wouldn't say that.

"Thou shalt not worship any graven image." The word "graven" doesn't mean much to us these days."

"Thou shalt not take God's name in vain." Good. I don't like to hear kids acting like jerks by swearing.

The fourth commandment is "Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy." Now, I disagree and I'd take it out. I see nothing wrong with going right from church to the mall on Sunday.

"Honor thy father and thy mother." Fine. Maybe "respect" would be a better word, than honor.

Six: "Thou shalt not kill." Of course, not.

Seven: "Thou shalt not commit adultery." Easier said than done.

Eight: "Thou shalt not steal." Sure.

Nine: "Thou shalt not bear false witness." I don't think most people would know what false witness meant.

Ten: In the Bible, that reads: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thy neighbor's wife, his manservant, his maidservant, his ox, his ass or anything that is thy neighbor's." I find it strange that the Ten Commandments assumes these people all had maidservants and manservants as if they were slaves.

If they ever carve the Commandments into stone again, they could save money by reducing them to just seven commandments. And I have some suggestions:

One: DON'T PRAY TO A STATUE

Two: DON'T SWEAR

Three: RESPECT YOUR PARENTS

Four: DON'T SHOOT ANYONE

Five: DON'T FOOL AROUND

Six: DON'T STEAL

Seven: DON'T LIE

With three million Muslims now. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America. It's going to be interesting to see what happens when we have a Muslim judge who wants to put a plaque in his courthouse with quotations from the Koran on it.


Written By Andy Rooney © MMIII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.

[XemaSab]

13. Did you know

That in the lobby of the Supreme court if you look up the ceiling is covered with an elaborate swastika design?

True stuff.

[ieoeja]

14. I sent the following reply to this same message the other day.

The one I got didn't have the BS about it from Andy Rooney (it's not, obviously). But it had the rest.

Do you seriously believe all of those 86% who believe in God want their taxes spent on erecting monuments to the Ten Commandments? Why would Hindus want a monument to the Ten Commandments? Why would any of the other myriad of non Judeo/Christian/Muslim religions want such a monument? You will have to add all those Americans to the 14% who are Atheist.

Remember the ruling against school led prayer at Texas High School football games? Did you know that ruling was in response to a lawsuit brought by Roman Catholics. Not Atheists, not Muslims, not Jews, not Pagans, but Christians who live in areas where their particular brand of Christianity is hated and the public display of Christianity is often used to attack them. So add the majority of Catholics and Reformationists to that 14% and growing.

And what about a Protestant who actually paid attention during history class? Most Protestants oppose state run and state sponsored religions, so you would have to subtract them from that 86%.

What does that leave you with? 20% to 30% of Americans who have a hardon for forcing their religion into our lives? Why don't we just tell that 25% to Sit Down and SHUT UP!!!

[nickgutierrez]

16. Perfect.

:thumbsup:

[johnlal]

15. My response:

MOSES AND TEN COMMANDMENTS IN SUPREME COURT BUILDING…

-- Construction on the Supreme Court Building did not commence until 1932. The "Founding Fathers" had nothing to do with this building.

-- Although Moses is depicted in the architecture of the Supreme Court Building, he is depicted among other historic lawgivers. For example, Justice the Guardian of Liberty, is a sculpture by artist Herman MacNeil, depicts Moses as one of a trio of three Eastern law givers (Confucius, Solon, and Moses). The trio is surrounded by a variety of allegorical figures representing legal themes.

In the South Courtroom Frieze, artist Adolph Weinman depicts a procession of 18 important lawgivers: Menes, Hammurabi, Moses, Solomon, Lycurgus, Solon, Draco, Confucius, Augustus, Justinian, Mohammed, Charlemagne, King John, St. Louis, Hugo Grotius, William Blackstone, John Marshall, and Napoleon. Moses is holding blank tablets. The Moses figure is no larger or more important than any other lawgiver. (Imagine, Moses and Mohammad are depicted together. Jesus is notably absent from this grouping).

--Although there are depictions of blank tablets and numbered tablets, the text of the Ten Commandments are not carved into the architecture of the building.

-- There is a depiction of the Koran on the South Courtroom Frieze, in the possession of Mohammed.

http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/arg8a.htm
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/about/courtbuilding.pdf
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/about/north&southwalls.pdf

JAMES MADISION:
“Every new & successful example of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance.”
-- James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

CONGRESSIONAL CHAPLAINS…

--For a period between 1857 and 1859, Congress suspended its practice of appointing congressional chaplains. This was due to several citizens’ complaints regarding the separation of church and state, and criticism that the appointments were political. The practice continued when it became difficult to find clergy who would voluntarily serve in this capacity.(i.e. for no money)
http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RS20427.pdf


THOMAS JEFFERSON

Thomas Jefferson: "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

See also:
John Adams: "When philosophic reason is clear and certain by intuition or necessary induction, no subsequent revelation supported by prophecies or miracles can supersede it."
-- John Adams, from Rufus K. Noyes, Views of Religion, quoted from from James A. Haught, ed., 2000 Years of Disbelief

Benjamin Franklin: "When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."
-- Benjamin Franklin, letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780, quoted from Adrienne Koch, ed., The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society, New York: George Braziller, 1965, p. 93.

George Washington: "It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people, that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights. For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support." (George Washington's letter to Touro Synagogue)

That e-mail is nothing but right-wing spam. Throw it away.

[alittlelark]

27. You forgot the Aesop's Fables characters on the front of the building

On both sides of the entry - moral themes. My Great Uncle was the architect - Cass Stirling Gilbert. There is a good book about him called 'Inventing the Skyline". The building was INTENTIONALLY built to convey legal history - not religious history.

[Cooley Hurd]

32. Wow! Cass Gilbert is your great uncle?

That's cool! The Woolworth Bldg is my favorite skyscraper in NYC!:thumbsup:

[alittlelark]

35. Yup, sorry it took so long to get back to DU... kids and homework

He was my grandfather's uncle. My son's middle name is Stirling. If you are really into him you should find 'Inventing the Skyline'. It's a great book that I have somewhere around here (we're remodeling). My grandmother was intimidated by him, but my grandfather liked him. He was an interesting, if somewhat terse man.

[Cooley Hurd]

41. I'll look for the book 'Inventing the Skyline'...

Thanks, alittlelark!

[BrendaStarr]

17. Andy Rooney wrote that?

I find that hard to believe, but I could be wrong.

In general Andy Rooney has been pretty liberal.


We are up against lies that are spread like wildfire.

We really need to take serious time to fight back and defeat them.


I'm not here a lot because I do that as do my news forum mates.

[BrendaStarr]

18. BTW

I also know that original poster is not responsible for putting the Andy Rooney moniker on that tp email, and I don't mean to accuse anyone here.

I've seen that garbage post a lot on mixed boards and know that some right wing asshole did it.

I've also question the "Andy Rooney" attribution there too.

[Mr_Spock]

19. One sent at work had no Andy Rooney on it. Never talk to lady again

Some RW nut-fuck sent that around here at work. There was no reference to Andy Rooney on it. I now never talk to the woman/moron again - and she wonders why. She's a friggin' nut job with angels, crosses and religious stuff pasted all over her work area - good riddance to an idiot as far as I'm concerned.

[ComerPerro]

20. Did you know that the Madison quote is not real?

Snopes.com

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp

James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

Actually, this statement appears nowhere in the writings or recorded utterances of James Madison and is completely contradictory to his character as a strong proponent of the separation of church and state.




Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said, "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians . . . not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".

Another spurious quotation. These words appear nowhere in the writings or recorded utterances of Patrick Henry.

[yorkiemommie1]

21. i sent the snopes link to my mailing list

as a PRE-EMPTIVE strike against the stuff they send me.

[EVDebs]

22. Did you know that most of the Founding Fathers were Freemasons ?

And Freemasons tolerate the beliefs of others, even if they believe personally something else. They also believe in fair play and Liberty, Equality, Fraternity.

The Great Architect of the Universe (TGAOTU) would be proud of what they built. Let's not destroy it. Preserving, protecting and defending the Constitution is what Democrats, Republicans and independents should be all about.

The neocons seem to have forgotten.

[opusprime]

23. I only have one thing to say....

Sand blaster!

[Czolgosz]

25. When I got this the ten commandments crap, I responded as follows:

Which ten commandments are you talking about?

The Catholics count the following Ten Commandments:

1. I am the Lord your God: You shall not have strange Gods before me.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord’s Day.
4. Honor your father and mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

The Jews count a different set of Ten Commandments (which are like the Catholic commandments except the first Hebrew commandment concerns God's role in delivering the Jews from Egypt and then the Hebrew commandments combine the last two Catholic commandments into one commandment -- or else there would be eleven commandments):

1. I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of Egypt.
2. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
5. Honour thy father and thy mother.
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house or wife.

The Protestants follow yet a third set (like the Jewish commandments, but the first Jewish commandment is missing and the Protestants have an extra commandment -- no. 2 -- about graven images):

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honor thy father and thy mother.
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house or wife.

So which commandments are you talking about? If we just add up the Catholic, Jewish, and Protestant versions we come up with "The Twelve Commandments":

1. I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of Egypt.
2. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
3. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
4. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
5. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
6. Honor thy father and thy mother.
7. Thou shalt not kill.
8. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
9. Thou shalt not steal.
10. Thou shalt not bear false witness.
11. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
12. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

The Twelve Commandments? That cannot be right. But it's only the beginning of the problem.

As you recall from Bible class, Moses lost his temper and smashed the original stone commandments when he came down from the mountain. Fortunately, God saw fit to remedy Moses' hasty action: "Lord said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest." (Ex. 34:1). Unfortunately, it appears that the Ten Commandments God wrote out the second time, which were supposed to be "the words that were in the first tables," set out ten significantly different commandments:

1. Ye shall destroy the pagans' altars.
2. Thou shalt worship no other god.
3. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
4. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep.
5. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest.
6. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks.
7. Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord GOD, the God of Israel.
8. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven.
9. The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God.
10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

(Ex. 34:12-26).

Leaving aside all the Hindus, Moslems, atheists, Buddhists, and other religious traditions woven into the American fabric, the Judeo-Chrostians cannot even agree upon which "ten simple rules" comprise the Ten Commandments.

Even when you consider the "Twelve Commandments" followed by various Catholics, Jews, and Protestants plus the second ten commandments set out in Exodus ch. 34, none of this has ever served as the basis for our country or for our legal system. For example, none of the following commandments have anything to do with our laws:

I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of Egypt - not a law
Thou shalt have no other gods before Me - violates 1st amendment
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image - not illegal
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain - not illegal
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy - violates 1st amendment
Honor thy father and thy mother - not a law
Thou shalt not commit adultery - not illegal
You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife - not illegal
You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods - generally encouraged

In fact, you could say that our capitalist system is practically founded on coveting our neighbor's goods. But what about the commandments which do correspond with our laws? Specifically, these:

Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness.

Each of these laws were adopted by various civilizations as much as a thousand years before the Bible was even written so it is inaccurate to say that the Bible serves as the basis for these universally recognized human vaules which substantially predate the Bible.

If we cannot even agree which ten commandments are the correct ones, and if none of the different versions of the ten commandments serves as the basis of our counrty or our laws, what's point?

[NMDemDist2]

29. now THAT is a brilliant response! n/t

[Nikki Stone 1]

31. BRILLIANT RESPONSE!

You mind if I use it?

[Czolgosz]

43. Please do (but you ought to spell check it first).

[CrispyQ]

26. Send them this editorial,

or paraphrase it & send it as your own. The point is excellent!

http://www.coloradodaily.com/articles/2005/05/24/opinion/opinion01.prt

[The_Casual_Observer]

28. Congrats for getting the rw message out.

Time to hit the alert button.

[Wabbajack]

30. Andy Rooney is pretty liberal

[geckosfeet]

33. They symbolic icons but foisting them on others is offensive and rude.

The ten commandments are fine for living your personal life. You can decorate you house and yard with them if you want to. But please keep them out of my face unless you are ok with me shoving my religious values in your face.

[MsUnderstood]

34. How about a link

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/r/religious-depictions.htm

Some of it is true some is bullshit, some is mis-represented.

And the last comment by John Jay just proves WHY WE NEED THE FILLIBUSTER!!!

[seg4527]

38. Andy Rooney DID NOT write that. check on snopes.

eom.

[katinmn]

42. Thanks! I KNEW that seemed SO unlike Rooney.

He would be angry to have his name attached to that B.S.