We Just Preserved the Filibuster for the Supreme Court Nominee

[msanthrope]

Well done, Democrats. We just undercut Frist and his promises to deliver the nuclear option tomorrow to his base.

And we kept the filibuster alive for the SC nominee.

Clever.

[Pacifist Patriot]

1. That is exactly what happened. "extreme circumstances"

translates directly as "Supreme Court nominee."

[msanthrope]

2. You got it---

and Frist is empty-handed tomorrow.

[blondeatlast]

43. Yep--if only the purists could understand this.

SCOTUS had me scared to death. Now I'm breathing a bit.

[Pacifist Patriot]

48. Some people have high expectations.

And that's not necessarily a bad thing. But sometimes it gets in the way of enjoying the smaller steps forward. The Republicans gained ground over the last thirty years by taking advantage of every step, large or small. We need to do the same thing.

[Clarkie1]

64. translation: "supreme circumstances" n/t

[benburch]

3. Yes, but you know that this will not be honored.

They will use the nuclear option for the SC.

[bettyellen]

49. but it's not as if we were going to fillibuster every single judge anyway.

[liberal43110]

57. They'll Just Use the Nuclear Option Later

Exactly. They'll just use the nuke option later, like during or before the debate on a Supreme Court nominee.

That's why I think this did nothing.

Nothing. It allowed several unacceptable judges to go to the floor for a vote now, but clearly keeps the threat very real: if the Dems ever dare to filibuster any judicial nominee (or anything else, for that matter), then the nuclear option is back on the table to threaten the Dems into submission again.

[Internut]

4. I may not be understanding something -

but couldn't the same exact effect (with exactly same results) have been achieved by simply allowing votes for Brown and Owen without any big fuss?

[Democrat 4 Ever]

15. According to Warner, Byrd et al - they have a gentlemen's

agreement to trust each other. Pretty much takes the power out of Frist's and the White House's hands. Of course, it can be revoked at any time but not without a lot rancor and a swift reminder of how hard they tried to change the rules and it just didn't work. Do most of the repugs want to take one in the ass for this White House? Evidently not.

[Gothmog]

5. No Scalia or Thomas as CJ

Without the filibuster, Bush would have put Thomas or Scalia in as Chief Justice when Rehnquist retires. That will not happen now.

[bettyellen]

50. actually a new conservative SC judge is the scarier scenario.......

one judge, one vote.
so he gets to write the majority opinion. as long as the scales don't tip any further right, we're better off.

[Jawja]

6. AND Dick Cheney

was denied his opportunity to take absolute power. I think that's the reasoning behind the hard work on the deal.

[newscott]

7. But is that going to give the Repubs someone

like Owen to crow about? She'll have her hands on hundreds if not thousands of cases.

That may be just too much for me to swallow.

[tridim]

8. The Freepers are PISSED!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1408993/posts

:D

[Pacifist Patriot]

11. Awwww, I feel so sorry for them.

Bwa! As if....

[puddycat]

14. Anything that pisses off the freepers is a GOOD THING! n/t

[LittleClarkie]

20. Eeeeeeexcellent.

I knew ANY deal was going to get the Religious Wingers going. Bwahahahaha!

[siliconefreak]

29. LOL!

I love how they control EVERYTHING but still believe that Democrats get everything they want.

[Rowdyboy]

35. I actually read the first 500 responses to that thread and they're foaming

at the mouth.

[Singular73]

41. ROFL -- I love these comments:

I just left the GoP.

I'm done with them.

Cowards.


---

The GOP is now dead to me. Bill Frist....ah why even bother..


===

The GOP should be renamed The POS. ANd they wonder why conservatives like me are withdrawing from the political arena.

[DaveinMD]

exactly

Good work Dems.

[undeterred]

9. BOHICA

:grr:

[The_Casual_Observer]

10. Then they get the up/down rubber stamp for the rest right?

sounds like we lost. What's to say they don't pull the same shit again went the SCOTUS person comes up? Are they going to pass a law or something?

[msanthrope]

16. No, it's an agreement for the three, not the rest.....

and I think this a clear signal to Frist that the Repukes on the Gang aren't voting to change the rules--there is now a gentlemen's agreement in place among the Gang.

[lyonn]

53. I thought these 3 were the most extreme

Radical or whatever but we allow them? I'm confused unless the remainder are worse, no one has said. What makes anyone think Scalia won't replace Rhinquest (sp) as Chief Justice? Or worse Thomas. Scalia's replacement will no doubt be as onesided as most of the other Repubs., don't look for another Souder (sp).

[Vincardog]

12. OK can the Opposition get to work now?

Will we see the Progressive Democrats sponsoring PRO PEOPLE legislation?

Make the elections happen on paper Ballots, counted by hand.
Raise the Minimum wage to at least $7.50/Hr.
Pass a Universal Health plan We can spend a Billion a month in Iraq
in a loosing cause but can not afford health care here?
Stop paying companies to send jobs overseas.
End Corporate Welfare.

Make the ReThugs vote against US on the record.

[John_H]

13. Exactly as I predicted on April 4th....

We got our wimpy asses smoked.

Post 26
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1704313#1705933

[OilemFirchen]

24. nt

Replied to wrong post...

[John_H]

30. Ummmmmmmm....

Because the words Owens, Brown and Pryor will now be preceded by the word judge?

[John_H]

26. dupe

[LittleClarkie]

31. Funny how the freepers are saying the same thing

They feel like Frist just caved. You feel like the Dems just caved.

So which is right?

[GreenArrow]

33. the Freepers are wrong

as usual. Dems choked. Nauseating.

[John_H]

34. Well, since Freepers are always wrong....

Seriously, Ms. H and I were talking about this yesterday. She made an excellent point: For this to be an actual compromise--as well as having any hope of a PR victory--one of the "big 3" had to go. Pryor. Brown. Owens. All will be confirmed. We lost.

[LittleClarkie]

42. Not yet we haven't

They still have to be voted on. We will see. They are not confirmed yet.

[AmBlue]

61. Read somewhere...

That Graham said one of them would NOT be confirmed. Wouldn't say which one...

[DemocracyInaction]

17. Look---when the time comes the Dems will pull out that filabuster

if Bush sends up a wacko for the Supreme Court regardless of the dumb "promise". This was one big power play by the moderates to stop Frist and it worked. Bush blinked and admitted by this that he needs the Dems or his agenda is dead and so is his fucking presidency. He would have become an instant lame duck with the exception of really fucking up the Supreme Court. Oh, and apparently Scalia was orginally ok'd by like everyone in the Senate and therefore, it is said that our Dems would not have a real big objection to having him as Chief Justice----sorry, to have to break that news to you. Oh, and the Christian right has a bloody nose right now. Who knows, maybe some asshole like Robertson will get in a twit and decide to run as a third party candidate and then we can break up this cartel of the unholy once and for all. Don't get so bent out of shape. This is good for us....and the best we could expect (wake up and realize we are in the minority and are lucky we survived this at all).

[msanthrope]

22. You got it---

Frist was supposed to deliver the nuclear option tomorrow to his base. Instead, the SC nominee still faces filibuster.

[peacetalksforall]

18. Owen et al is good? Many say they can do more harm at the

appeals level than on the SC? Are we supposed to be excited? As Joe is?

[spooky3]

19. agreed

[snippy]

21. I agree. I also think there may be an aditional benefit depending on

how the right wing reacts to the deal. If they rise up on their hind legs and howl with their typical vitriolic and virulent hatred it may lead some decent Americans to feel ashamed for ever having been associated with the current republican party.

[earthside]

23. Can you say "Chief Justice Thomas"????

Because that is what you are going to get. A Justice that has already been confirmed and on the court for fourteen years will not be an "extraordinary circumstance".

Very little good has come out of this whole controversy ... but I predict that just as many Democrats are going to feel betrayed as religious fanatic Republicans.

In the end, when it came down to making a fight and standing steadfast, the Dems compromised ... again.

[msanthrope]

28. Both Scalia and O'Connor will be Chief before him---n/t

[bettyellen]

51. keep your eye on the empty seat- that's what matters.

that's what would tip the scales.

[lyonn]

54. Why?

It will be filled by a repub. It's when a Dem. SC Justice steps down that we really need to worry.

[bettyellen]

66. it's more important who gets the empty seat than who gets

the honor of being CJ. because that's what will alter the mix. whoever becomes CJ isn't going to change the breakdown of votes at all.

[FrenchieCat]

25. It smells very bad to me....

McCain and his gang become the reasonable "heroes" (including some those who are not really "moderate"...like John Warner and Lindsey Graham and Joe Lieberman).

Bush gets his current judges in for a up or down vote. Since the Pugs have the majority.....they'll get confirmed who they want. The Nuclear Option is still on the table.

We were out manuvered once again: The Pugs fabricated an issue, the Dems get their hands tied until a Supreme Court appointee is made....and in the meantime, Bush gets his judges to be voted on the floor of the senate.

The Nuclear Option would have been bad PR for the Republicans, because using anything that labeled "Nuclear" is bad.

But since they don't have to use it;

The media gets a sensational story that they can pump up as Saving the Country....

The Republicans won this checkmate that they created.

period.

[LittleClarkie]

32. The base is pissed off

and some are quiting the Republican Party over this, or so they say in freeperland.

Mr. "No Surrender" just caved. I think that's quite good, myself. Frist just disappointed all the Justice Sunday people and left the option open for the Supreme Court. That's what the RWer wanted, I think. This was a dress rehearsal for the SCOTUS. And they blinked.

[googly]

47. Your analysis sounds correct to me.........eom

[paparush]

58. FrenchieCat...I think you just nailed it!

Summed up the gist of it nicely.

I'm off to mourn the death of America.

[OilemFirchen]

27. Why is there an assumption

that any/all of the three will survive an up-or-down vote? Some of the moderate puggies may have switched during this brouhaha.

BTW, to those who think that the puggies can just pull the Nuke Option at a later date, note that there were... what... six puggies in on the deal? Does anyone think they'll vote down filibusters if the leadership fucks them over? 45 Dems + 1 Indy + 6 Puggies = Nuclear Option Permanent Death.

[OilemFirchen]

37. My own little horn toot:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3713572

[lyonn]

56. Part of the agreement was

that 7 Dems would vote for these judges. That's how I understood it.

[Gothmog]

36. Without compromise, Scalia or Thomas would be Chief Justice

Without this compromise, Bush would put Thomas or Scalia up for Chief Justice when Rehnquist retires. Now, Bush has to fear a filibuster. The nuclear option may more difficult to pull for a supreme court justice. This is a win for us.

[caligirl]

63. thats just what I said in another thread. good on ya.

17. Frist lost control of his team. Repugs are agreeing with the dems.
Edited on Mon May-23-05 09:14 PM by caligirl


Frist won't get a SC nom thru, or Scalias or Thomas appointed to the CJ spot without exposing the real motive of this fight. Since 80% of the American people supported keeping the filibuster, and Frist and Bush wanted to end it just to stick an extremist judge on the SC or get their bought and paid for judge in the CJ spot. 80% of America is going to exact a price for this sooner or later. The consent of the governed is the only way a gov't can govern in a democracy. Or does Frist and Bushco want to tell 80% of America they no longer are governed but rather dictated too.

caligirl

[brentspeak]

38. Unless the Repubs put it in writing, we didn't preserve a damn thing

Don't tell me you're gullible enough to think that the Republicans would honor such an agreement? The nanosecond the Dems talk about filibustering the eventual Bush SCOTUS nominee -- who we all know will be completely unacceptable in every way -- the Republicans will simply claim that the Dems "broke the agreement", and then use their stupid "nuclear option".

[mirrera]

67. Exactly...n/t

[NightOwwl]

39. And cut Frist off at the knees at the same time.

On first glance it may look like the Dems caved, but what they just did was stop a complete takeover of our government by the extreme right wing of the Republican party.

[cry baby]

40. That was the main reason we needed to keep the filibuster...

not for Owen or Brown...they are bad, but we needed to be able to filibuster extreme nominees for the supreme court.

nominated

[JerseygirlCT]

44. Yup. Exactly

And I really wonder whether the GOP could find the momentum again to ratchet this whole operation up for a SC nomination fight. I doubt it.

That is to say, I don't for a minute trust them not to try again, but I really don't think they'd succeed.

[GetTheRightVote]

45. Now, they still have the tool and its power, I hope they use it wisely

and alot.

:kick:

[TnDem]

46. Wrong

Do you people not understand what just took place? The Democrats "keep" the filibuster as long as they don't abuse it. They already had it before with NO restrictions. they gained nothing except for what they were about to lose.

Priscilla Owens will be confirmed tomorrow for Appellate court justice. The very FIRST opening for a SCOTUS justice and it will be her. She is RADICALLY anti-choice, anti-worker.

There is no way on this earth that the Democrats will be able to filibuster her for SCOTUS when they passed her for an appellate position. She will be the next SCOTUS justice. Google her name and "abortion" or "pro-business" and see what you get.

And you think this was a victory? Most of you were so used to the idea that we had lost the filibuster that by simply keeping it with the same restrictions as before seems like a victory.

Pathetic...

[caligirl]

65. Frist has lost his choke hold, how likely are moderate repugs to

go along with this. Frist would have gone for the N option if he had the votes, obviously from tonight, he didn't have the votes. The mod group didn't support Frist or Bush tonight.

[mirrera]

68. Thats right! We still had it...

You hit the nail on the head. How can we win something we already had. If just the threat that they were going to do something so drastic—it would have gone down in history as a disgrace—can make us fold... they won. It is blackmail and blackmailers always win unless you call their bluff. We should have let them try to remove the filibuster and gone from there. They NEVER vote with us... we know it and what's scary is so do our Representatives. I feel like I am watching a diabolical ping pong game and people are DYING because of these clowns.

www.nobullshirt.com

[sendero]

52. If in fact...

... this measure protects the filibuster for the SC confirmation process, then it is most definitely a win for us.

I'm just not as sure as you are that it really does. Only time will tell.

[TnDem]

59. Once again

Let's say the Democrats keep the filibuster for SCOTUS.

How can they filibuster OWEN, PRYOR or BROWN without breaking the new agreement? How can the Democrats hold a straight face to the country if they tuen around and filibuster three people that they just basically agreed were qualified to be an appeals court judge. How many of the 14 "moderates" would go along with the rest of the Democrats?

PLEASE someone explain this to me...

[reality based]

55. Bush lost his growing string of congressional victories.

Congressional Republicans learned that they can stand up for the legislative branch against the executive of their own party. Frist lost control over his caucus and lost some of their respect, too. Reid won because he had earlier established that he was willing to compromise to preserve the filibuster. Frist lost because he was unwilling to consider a compromise and essentially had it imposed on him. Dobson lost because he thinks he did. Democrats won because they can go to the people as candidates standing against extremism and for Constitutional limits on power. If we take a page from Biden's speech today, we can begin to educate people and press about the pernicious ideology behind the "constitution in exile" crowd and establish some meaningful policy related criteria for that ambiguous standard for acceptable judicial filibustering. Maybe this new found stirring of independence from the little emperor will inspire some Republican Senators with an idea that they have a responsibility to the country to look at the Iraq disaster and the Bolton nomination from a national interest rather than partisan perspective.

[understandinglife]

60. Not.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3714853&mesg_id=3716060

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[caligirl]

62. This becomes much more publicly contentous. They can't hide their

real motive. If the public isn't in favor of removing the filibuster now, they won't be then either. This exposes the real motive of Frist and others. It also tarnishes the SC nom, something Fristco had not wanted.

[DARE to HOPE]

69. This was my BIRTHDAY PRESENT from my loving God! :-)

Today is my birthday, and I had asked Him for three things:

1- Healing of my body from this terrifying virus! He did! He pointed me right to the natural solution I have needed! And last night was the first night I slept! Today--I feel like Lazarus. :-)

2- To "bring Carol home!" One of our beloved church members who was coded blue last week after they gave her premature morphine! After being removed from the respirator when she was expected to die--instead she sat up, breathing on her own, and asked what was happening! I will see her today--she went in with pneumonia, they didn't believe her for a week, she IS diabetic with a leaky valve--BUT--after last night's Senate compromise, I really do believe she WILL COME HOME!

3- That the FRIST REPUBLICANS LOSE on Tuesday!!

Which they have.

[Shrek]

70. Get ready for "Justice Brown"

Because that's probably what's coming.

There is NO WAY to legitimately claim "extraordinary circumstances" for a sitting appeals court judge who has already been voted on and confirmed by the Senate. Bush will nominate her and the Senate Democrats will just have to shut up and swallow it, because they gave away their right to object when they let her slide.