Raw Story has been correct: Real ID is the biggest threat on the table.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

What simply amazes me is the fact that this seems to be getting past a lot of us. What the potentials are for this new law are mind-boggling and enormously destructive for what we have come to know as our freedoms.

We seem to have been distracted by the fundamentalists and the other wedge issues that have been created, while the real damages are being snuck in on riders in appropriations bills.

If there was ever an issue we should be going wild about, Read ID is it. Period.

Why is this getting past us? What don't we understand about this incredibly corrosive and destructive bill? Why aren't we at full cry about it? After all, everything about it is anathemic to our traditions of freedom.

Will we only speak out, all of us, when it is far too late? Or are we just worn down to the place where they exactly want us?

Have we, in fact, tossed in the towel?

[evlbstrd]

1. It's not getting past all of us. Search the posts.

But the way it got attached to an appropriations bill, one that "supports our troops" and would political poison to vote against, is business as usual. In normal times, things that would be removed or watered down in House/Senate conference committees before the final bill goes to the executive branch. (I've decided to quit saying "the President".)

Our call to action on this is to hammer our Senators hard, citing privacy issues and cost to the states, especially when the states are already hit hard by NCLB and Medicare and Medicaid cuts.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. Well, I hope so...

Because the draconian potentials of this thing are mind-boggling, in extremis. Not only do we have to hammer congress but also our fellow citizens, because I assure you, the average right-wing repuke will get the warnings loud and clear. Costs or no costs, to boot.

[ray of light]

2. Well, we overcame the fascism in Nazi Germany

We just have to fight the fascism here, the corporatism, the elitism, and the power-hungry madmen--now known as the "Republican party" or the neoCONS.

We have to be the underground revolutionists the same as what they had in Europe. We have to ORGANIZE and we have to be the MEDIA. D.U. is GREAT, but we have to take it to the streets and we have to get people to LEARN and bring them here and to the Democracy Cell Project--where they can Learn, Talk, Act!

Please join us too! http://www.democracycellproject.net

[TahitiNut]

4. Without "Identity Avatars," there'd be no identity theft.

What do I mean by "Identity Avatars"? Simply the notion that two businesses can compare notes (records) and, with reasonable certainty, say what sets match the same person. It's compounded by the "effective power of attorney" we give them to traffic in our personal data, even to the point that medical care deals with our insurers directly. Without the ubiquitous violation of prohibitions on using Social Security numbers, these traffickers would be far, far fewer. The very notion that the commercial/financial "powers" have worked so hard to create reliable ways of comparing and combining data has created the crime of identity theft. Any widespread identity number creates and expands the opportunity for crime, abuse, and oppression. The individual human being is the loser, no matter how it's done.

[applegrove]

5. I hate to say it but what would your suggestion be to make sure

that the next terrorist on a 'watch list', as many on 9/11 were, doesn't get on a plane without a shit-load of air marshals sitting right beside him, on either side.. and in front and behind? That is if the freak gets to go on a plane and doesn't have to take Queen Mary II to visit home.

Can you imagine if all the terrorists in the world had to take 'hired boats' to go anywhere? A nice thought!

I have not read the plan and I actually don't want to know what all Bush & the repukes attached to this law. It would probably make me cry - I admit.

[pnorman]

6. I too haven't been following this as closely as I should have.

But here's what I just came across:

FAQ: How Real ID will affect you
Published: May 6, 2005, 4:00 AM PDT
By Declan McCullagh
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

>
>
What does that mean for me?
Starting three years from now, if you live or work in the United States, you'll need a federally approved ID card to travel on an airplane, open a bank account, collect Social Security payments, or take advantage of nearly any government service. Practically speaking, your driver's license likely will have to be reissued to meet federal standards.

The Real ID Act hands the Department of Homeland Security the power to set these standards and determine whether state drivers' licenses and other ID cards pass muster. Only ID cards approved by Homeland Security can be accepted "for any official purpose" by the feds.

How will I get one of these new ID cards?
You'll still get one through your state motor vehicle agency, and it will likely take the place of your drivers' license. But the identification process will be more rigorous.
>
>
>
http://news.com.com/FAQ+How+Real+ID+will+affect+you/2100-1028_3-5697111.html?tag=nefd.lede

It's difficult to describe this with brief excerpts, so read the entire article. And check it all out against this online version of 1984: http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984

pnorman
On edit: I tried to use Google to find that Orwell reference, but Google "couldn't be located". Google is on my Mozilla toolbar, and gets used quite frequently each day. Has anyone else noticed that? I sure hope it's temporary.

[tom_paine]

7. "Papers please"

And, if you listen to what Harrty Reid has said, the german Social Democratic Leadership has indeed thrown in the towel.

Hitler is just too strong and ruthless for them. They refuse to recognize what they are up against.

Just like the last time a Hitler came along.

[incapsulated]

8. Indeed

This is the most frightening bill to come down the pike so far.

And the Dems in congress just passed it along.

[Desertrose]

9. very very frightening.....

we need to stop this ....

A FEDERAL ID!!!!!!!!!
:hide:

Whatever happened to the repubs/consrvatives blather about keeping the feds out of our personal lives. Oh dear...I cracked myself up on that one......calling them repubs instead of fascists!!

[incapsulated]

10. There was one that I know of...

A Republican from Texas no less. Ron Paul:

Before the US House of Representatives, February 9, 2005

Mr. Speaker:

I rise in strong opposition to HR 418, the REAL ID Act. This bill purports to make us safer from terrorists who may sneak into the United States, and from other illegal immigrants. While I agree that these issues are of vital importance, this bill will do very little to make us more secure. It will not address our real vulnerabilities. It will, however, make us much less free. In reality, this bill is a Trojan horse. It pretends to offer desperately needed border control in order to stampede Americans into sacrificing what is uniquely American: our constitutionally protected liberty.

What is wrong with this bill?

The REAL ID Act establishes a national ID card by mandating that states include certain minimum identification standards on driver’s licenses. It contains no limits on the government’s power to impose additional standards. Indeed, it gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to unilaterally add requirements as he sees fit.

Supporters claim it is not a national ID because it is voluntary. However, any state that opts out will automatically make non-persons out of its citizens. The citizens of that state will be unable to have any dealings with the federal government because their ID will not be accepted. They will not be able to fly or to take a train. In essence, in the eyes of the federal government they will cease to exist. It is absurd to call this voluntary.

Republican Party talking points on this bill, which claim that this is not a national ID card, nevertheless endorse the idea that “the federal government should set standards for the issuance of birth certificates and sources of identification such as driver’s licenses.” So they admit that they want a national ID but at the same time pretend that this is not a national ID.

It's an excellent speech:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul234.html

[dogman]

11. Because we're mushrooms not sheeple.

We're kept in the dark and fed manure. This bill was added to what is considered must pass legislation by the House without debate. Everyone is watching the DeLay scandal while he and his puppet, Hastert slip it to us. There was a letter signed by ten Senators asking Frist to detach this poison pill. The letter was bi-partisan, signed by Rethugs like McCain, Hagel, and even the evil Brownback. Frist will likely ignore it. What is amazing to me is the NRA can stop the registering of weapons but there is no like effort to stop the registering of people. Obama said today that members like him will be introducing bills to cut back on its' provisions. Once again they seek to close the barn door after the cows are out.