Need Advice: My daughter's teacher says, "Bush never lies."

[lady lib]

My 9th grade daughter relayed this to me as we were driving home from school today. She seemed a little upset even though it sounded like a typical day - until she got to her last class of the day - social studies. Her teacher is an expatriate Israeli and apparently an ex-Democrat. She's now a very strong Bush supporter. This teacher has taken to informing the class, "Well one thing I can tell you is that President Bush never lies" which she says whenever the one other Dem in the class challenges her on his veracity. When I asked kid lib why she doesn't speak up about this, she says that if she criticizes Bush in her class "the idiots in the back of the room will start yelling Bush, Bush! at me." Then she says, "No wonder they're getting 30's on their tests!"
So my daughter is frustrated by this__________(fill in the blank:ignorant? delusional? teacher). And I'm angry.


More background info: School is over at the end of the month and then my daughter is moving on to high school (but I've got another one starting 7th grade in the fall). My daughter doesn't want me to confront her teacher, but she would be willing to give information on Bush's lies to the other Dem in the class to pass along to the teacher - I was thinking the Top 10 list on bushlies.net.

HELP Fellow DUers. What would you do?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. Well, giving the list...

Might give you some personal satisfaction, but I doubt it will put a dent in the teacher's beliefs. The teacher, being an Israeli emegre', likely feels that Israel is considerably safer for America being in Iraq. remember: during the first gulf war, they were hit by Iraqi Scuds, a traumatic experience. I am sure she feels that having removed that possibility, that Chimpy is a liberator of her people.

That's a tough nut to crack.

[ProudDad]

12. Actually

A great deal of the little bit of Scud shrapnel that hit Israel was spread even further by near misses with Patriot missiles.

[Cha]

20. She might feel safer but to say

"bush never lies" is disingenous at best and a damn lie to boot.

[lady lib]

27. Good point.

It helps to see her perspective as an Israeli.

[madrchsod]

2. i would inform the school officials

and any other relevant group to voice your concerns inform the local democratic party. good thing she`s out of there..it`s up to the next class to fight it out with this teacher...

[evlbstrd]

7. Her second child is potentially that teacher's next victim.

As well as scores of other children.

[Sparkly]

8. I agree with that.

Write to the principal and/or schedule a meeting with the principal and the teacher to discuss your concerns. I think a teacher making a statement like that is out of line, as is allowing or encouraging taunts of "Bush! Bush!"

Maybe the other enlightened student has a parent who'd join you.

[FreedomAngel82]

23. I agree

I definietly would set up a meeting with the school meeting about this. And yet republicans say they're the one's who are persecuted by teachers. Bullshit on that.

[evlbstrd]

3. That's a horrible situation!

Rather than confront the teacher, you might go to the principal and express your concerns. Naturally, you'll be cool and logical.

[TomClash]

4. fill in the blank

Nazi

[Jon_da_brockman]

5. Dont change her opinions

That is not likely to happen. Ask her to simple refrain from preaching politics to your daughter. It is not her place (unless, for example, she is a sociology teacher or somesuch, for debate purposes).

[Fire Walk With Me]

6. Ask if this is a lie

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/krwashbureau/20050506/ts_krwashbureau/_bc_usiraq_intelligence_wa_1

Please Recommend the article on Yahoo, bottom of the page, you have to sign in, and then refresh the page to see the results.

DU Thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1767067

[evlbstrd]

10. Keep spreading that! I am.

I've shown that story to people I know and the ones who had already figured he lied nodded and smiled. Some of the people who never really think about it gasped. The hardcore supporters say things like, "Well, we need to be over there any way," or "He hates Bush, what do you expect."

If we keep pushing it out there, how much longer can it be ignored?

[lady lib]

28. Thanks.

[FrenchieCat]

9. Just ask the teacher two questions....

Where are the WMDs that Bush said made Iraq an Imminent threat to the US?

Where is Osama Bin Laden, who Bush said he was going to capture dead or alive?

Let her know that truth in politics can be judged relative depending on your ideology. Then tell her that judging if someone has told a political lie or an untruth is a subjective and personal matter....and as far as you're concerned Bush lied. Let her know that she should not be imposing her subjective opinions on her students, because it is unfair to them.

[ProudDad]

11. Demand that your other child NEVER gets this teacher.

I would call the principal and demand that your other child does NOT get this teacher.

I would also tell the principal that if this teacher continues to allow other kids in the class to taunt her for her political beliefs, that you demand that she be removed from this teachers clutches too!!

[lady lib]

33. Yeah, this taunting business has got to stop.

Besides coming to grips with the truth about Bush, she needs to learn some classroom management skills - and to understand that mob rule is not acceptable.

[cally]

38. You have to put it in writing!

I would probably wait until the end of the school year because it will upset your daughter. Then I would write a letter explaining why you do not want your second child to ever have this teacher. Keep it as neutral politically as possible but explain your concern that she presents her political views as fact and does not accept debate nor is interested in discussion. She also has abysmal classroom management skills and allows students to openly taunt and bully other students. The teacher allows yelling to stifle dissent. If another parent or two would be willing to join you, then have them sign.

My experience with schools is that nothing gets done until you put it in writing. Once in writing, administrators then pay attention. Good luck.

[Donna Zen]

13. Oh boy...I could tell ya some stories:

1) Our chemistry teacher said that bush can't lie because God speaks through bush and (drumroll) God doesn't lie. Note: this chem teacher tells the kids that there is no such thing as global warming.

Had enough?

2) The social teacher--not quite as bad--gave a matching test. republicans=moderates, Democrats=radicals

Since the entire school board is made up fundy right nutballs. And I also assure you that if any liberal/Democrat made an overt political comment their heads would roll.

And that's the way it is.

[lady lib]

24. Oh Dear God!! n/t

[mimitabby]

29. good grief, where do YOU live?

[Donna Zen]

39. Maine

n/t

[coda]

14. "He (Ken Lay) supported my opponent in the TX Gov's race." * in 2000

An early clue.

[Eloriel]

15. Oh, really tough situation

I think I might be tempted to try to talk to the teacher in GENERAL terms: it's not "safe" to tell kids that people in authority and power "never lie." If she's somewhat receptinve, you might go on to say that you believe he has lied, and often, and that in any case it ends up being at the very least a matter of opinion (since you both probably blieve you have "proof" of your different beliefs on this) and as such, she shouldn't be indoctrinating the kids with her OPINION as if it were fact.

I would love to just beat her over the head with the TRUTH but as others here have pointed out, that simply will not work for people who are firmly in denial.

Put another way:

"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of what he was never reasoned into." Jonathan Swift

Edited: Good luck with this. Let us know what you do and how it turns out, okay?

[lady lib]

32. I will. Thank you, Eloriel.

[LiberalFighter]

37. Catch her in a lie and use that against her

[O.M.B.inOhio]

16. Now if the teacher had called Bush a liar...

they'd be fired for misuse of their authority for political evangelizing. The Repugs always decry liberal activist judges (because they respect the Constitution), liberal professors (because they're educated), liberal-biased scientists (because they believe in evidence), liberal media (WTF?, this sort of thing isn't 'political.' Hypocrisy, more than greed or stupidity, is the hallmark of the right wing.

[Sparkly]

17. So true.

:thumbsup:

[Terre]

18. My heart goes out to you and your daughter

What I would do, if my son (10th grade) were confronted with this situation is:

Tell my son/your daughter that school is almost over for the year, and since s/he wants no intervention directly with the teacher, ask if they can "bite their tongue" for the sake of "keeping the peace" at least for the remainder of the month. Sure it's gonna be tough, but nothing on our "side of the fence" is easy these days.

If your daughter wants to make her own "list of lies" to pass to her friends, give her a head-start with some facts, and ask her to make her own list by doing additional research on the internet.

Make a telephone call, or visit the Principal (not the teacher directly), and explain your concerns over the teachers imparting personal political views, etc. If your daughter doesn't want you to even do that, see the above 2 suggestions.

Make sure your now 7th grader is not assigned to that teachers class in the new year.

[lady lib]

31. Yes. I agree on all points.

[uppityperson]

19. Teacher has right to believe this, no right to proselytize

The teacher has the right, as we all do, to believe as he or she wishes. It seems the problem, if not easily solvable by having an open minded teacher who is willing to listen to other viewpoints and information (after a quick try at this), that a meeting with the teacher and principal together is in order. If that doesn't work, the school superintendent, then the school board. She has a right to feel as she does. She doesn't have the right to proselytize though. Good luck.

[Crunchy Frog]

21. I think it's completely inapproriate for a teacher to

be politicizing the classroom in that fashion, creating an environment in which students are made to feel belittled over their politics, or using the classroom for political indoctrination.

I would first meet with the principal and discuss it, and if that doesn't go anywhere, I would go higher up and maybe start looking into legal remedies.

[alcuno]

26. You have to start with the teacher.

Teachers need to be given the chance to defend against accusations or make amends. If they don't then you move up the chain of command. It's the respectful thing to do and any administrator worth his/her salt will tell the parent to start with the teacher.

[lady lib]

48. Absolutely.

Always start with the teacher first and in private.

[coloradodem2005]

22. Despicable.

[IChing]

25. Is this a public school?

I educated my children on history and politics, and raise them social democrats no matter what school they attended.

[lady lib]

35. Yes.

But it's located in a crimson red city in AZ.

[quaoar]

30. Go straight to the biggest lie of all

Weapons of mass destruction.

Here's a good, concise, easy-to-read list of all the Bush Administration's lies about WMD:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3569.htm

[lady lib]

34. THANK YOU EVERYBODY!

I appreciate the kind thoughts and I'm going to think about all of your suggestions. I definitely agree that something needs to be done so that my next daughter doesn't wind up in the same situation.

:thumbsup:

[IChing]

36. Hitler started with the youth

You did not answer is this a public school and what state?
I'm glad you found some answers.

[lady lib]

44. Sorry. Yes, it's a public school in Arizona. n/t

[omega minimo]

40. "1984" in hardcover

so the high schooler can pass it on to the younger sibling.

Help her recognize the times we are living in; recognize the relationship between the bonehead bullies in her class and the bonehead bully behavior elsewhere in the gubmint (a la preemptive war) and the "culture" (a la Limbot and his clones).

Help her develop her research and writing skills, to document and reflect on the information she needs to counter Wrong Wing Doublethink. This could be a great turning point for her life and her education.

They are fortunate to have a concerned and aware parent. Good luck.

:kick: :hi:

Writing a letter to the Board of Education might be useful when it comes time to refuse placement of your younger child in that teachers class. Perhaps ask what the protocol for teachers in this situation is. Let them tell you if this is sanctioned :puke: in writing.

[Donna Zen]

41. Teaching as a subversive activity:

I teach: 1984, The Crucible, The Things They Carried, and much more...

[IChing]

42. I read the book

keep them informed

[Donna Zen]

45. Me too!

I read Tom Paine aloud..hehehehe..

My favorite moment is when we get to Judge Hathorne's line in "Crucible" when he says: Your either with us or against us. The classroom gasp is just precious.

[lady lib]

46. My daughter has read 1984

and has discussed the parallels she sees with me. I'll let her know about the other two books you mentioned - any others? Maybe I should catch up as well!

[quiet.american]

57. Book -- "Don't Think Of An Elephant" by George Lakoff

You most likely have heard of it; it's extremely helpful in its discussion of how to winningly frame conversations and debate with "conservatives."

[lady lib]

49. All good suggestions.

She understands what's going on politically and asks a lot of good questions when we're driving to/from school and listening to AAR or NPR. But she's never put her thoughts on paper to document and defend her positions. Good idea.

BTW, this won't get as far as the Board of Education (which is right wing, anyway). I'll make sure my younger child is placed in another class.

[zulchzulu]

43. Get the daughter to ask for ROTC people to recruit the Bushie kids

OK. So Bush doesn't lie. Then it would be a great idea for the school to have ROTC people come by and get kids to sign up or at least hear their schpiel about the glories of joining the military at this time.

Let's see what the Bush kids' parents think about that... if there is any indication to the falling signup numbers based on parents talking their kids out of being Halliburton martyrs, then the teacher might find some truths about how even the most dedicated Repug Dad still would not want to sacrifice their kid for Chimpy...

[lady lib]

47. I told my daughter your ROTC suggestion

and she said, "Oh, they're planning on going into the army! Except they're not in ROTC I don't think." Hmmm. Sounds like typical Repugs, talking a good chicken hawk game.

[Hippo_Tron]

50. Simple, what did Bush say that the Iraq War would cost?

And what has it really cost us?

[harpo]

51. call the superintendent and complain...get other local dems to do same

[cosmik debris]

56. That's the ticket

Go straight to the superintendent. Skip the teacher, skip the principal. The focus of the complaint should be HARASSMENT not lies. The harassment complaint will open the door for the rest of the stuff to come out. When they realize that they have a political zealot in their faculty, they will take the necessary action with out drawing the distinction between political points of view.

[yorkiemommie1]

52. those taunting kids are training for future GOP conventions.

what's that line from "South Pacific"? __You have to be taught.

[dsc]

53. My take

You have two options here. One is to ride out this month and make sure your other child doesn't have this teacher. The advantage to that is you don't make waves. The disadvantage is that some other kid later is going to have to make waves to dislodge this teacher.

Two is to wait out this month and then complain to the principal about the behavoir of this teacher. Advantage it lets your kid off the hook and might get the teacher disciplined.

Three is to complain on Monday. Advantage the teacher is very likely to get disciplined. Disadvantage is pissed off daughter.

I would suggest two or three depending on how much you think your daughter would be pissed off by you going to the school.

[liberalitch]

54. In my experience a lot of these kids' parents don't know that...

they were lied to....
they just repeat what they hear at home.....
Wait until they (finally) start blaming Bush for the lack of jobs, housing, the cost of living.... then they'll be chanting a different tune.

[kevsand]

55. My advice?

Kill the pigs. Drink their blood. But that's just me. It's the main reason I don't go to PTA/PTO meetings. ;-)

[LuPeRcALiO]

58. "The German Ideology" by Marx and Engels explains the whole thing.

Another good one is "Ideology and Ideological State Apparatuses" by Louis Althusser, which explains the role of education this way:

"All ideological State apparatuses, whatever they are, contribute to the same result: the reproduction of the relations of production, i.e. of capitalist relations of production."

Sadly, it's all there in black and white.

[livvy]

59. From a teacher's point of view

As a teacher, I much prefer a parent discuss concerns with me before going to the principal. Hearing about a problem from the principal puts me on the defensive, and a bit resentful of the parent. When a parent comes to me, I'm usually happy to work with them, and most often can come to a resolution agreeable to both of us. In the rare instances that a solution cannot be found, I would expect the parent to then contact the principal, or more often than not, I'll contact the principal, and the discussion can go from there.
I would suggest starting with the teacher. Then at least you can say you tried to resolve your concerns with her, but she was unwilling to comply with your wishes.
This teacher should not be expressing her political beliefs to the students or allowing others to heckle your daughter when she voices an opposing opinion. Both are unacceptable practices that neither you nor your daughter should have to tolerate. Nor should you have to have concerns about your younger child being treated unfairly in the event you do complain and your younger child is later placed in this teacher's classroom. For her to do so would be highly unprofessional (not that this teacher sounds all that professional to begin with!)
Good luck with whatever decision you make. I hope things work out well.