Can you see/hear "Kerry" without saying negative election thoughts?

[uppityperson]

Any time John Kerry's name comes up it seems that someones must post about how disappointed they are with his election actions. Is it possible for you to say something positive, or at least not negative, about his actions now, without bringing up the election?

I am NOT asking for anyone to say how they feel about the election OR Kerry. I am asking ONLY if it is possible for you to hear/see Kerry and not respond about the election.

I am asking to please respect this and see if we can get a few responses here before it deteriorates into a flame fest and gets locked. Which would be ironic, considering I am asking if it is possible to not do so. Thank you.

Edited for typo and to reiterate the purpose of this poll. Thank you.

[darkism]

1. It takes time to put together an airtight case for massive electoral fraud

Give the man more credit. He knows.

[uppityperson]

2. Ah ah ah, that's about the election

I'm not asking what is John Kerry doing that you think is good, but can you say something good about him. That is, not "please say something good about him", but "if you were to say something, and please don't, could it be good". Is that more clear or confusing?

[whistle]

68. Just what case is John Kerry putting together regarding massive

...election fraud? has he formed an investigative team, has he introduced a bill on the senate floor, is he going after the election voter machine people? What is it that John Kerry has been doing during the past six months as senator or private citizen to ensure that this won't happen again in 2006 or 2008 or in future national state and local elections? I have seen or heard of nothing that John Kerry is doing or even plans to do.

[whistle]

3. I am very disappointed in what John Kerry did when he made...

...his early statement conceding the election and then not joining in with democrats like Conyers who wanted to fight for the recount and election fraud investigation. I respected John Kerry, I voted for John Kerry. But he showed no willingness to fight for what was the right thing and instead took the political easier softer way. Now we are stuck with Bush and the very dangerous neo-conservative evangelical right wing agenda for the next four years and beyond.

[uppityperson]

5. And we made it to 2 responses!

The question and request to respect this was: is it possible to hear or see anything about Kerry without having to bring up how disappointed you were about his behavior regarding the election. I am not interested in discussing this behavior because it is being done many other places on DU. My request was to please respect this and try to just answer the question. Thank you.

[The Straight Story]

8. redefining my answer some:

The question and request to respect this was: is it possible to hear or see anything about Kerry without having to bring up how disappointed you were about his behavior regarding the election.

Can we not bring it up - sure. But that does not mean we are not thinking it. I think it, because I see it as a part of who he is. I don't have to bring it up.

But then there is this: Kerry was our man, we vested a lot of hope in him. To many he failed and it hurt real bad - and some would say that his inaction has kept troops in harm's way, etc and so on. So it is hard NOT to bring it up because we see his failure there as something bigger then his successes now.

Kerry is tied to his actions, and his loudest actions will almost always taint threads involving him.

What has he done lately to right the wrongs? Maybe a lot - sadly such things don't always find their way into the news or DU.

He made mistakes, now he has a chance to fight those mistakes and make it better. Has he? How?

[uppityperson]

14. Everyone has valid reasons for feeling how they do.

I understand that many, including me, feel this way. And I do, very strongly. What I am trying to see here, now, with this poll is if it is possible to not bring this up everytime his name is mentioned. Of course past behavior influences current reactions, but is it possible to modify your behavior, not your emotions. That is my question. It may be simplistic, but it is my poll and my simple question.

[The Straight Story]

17. Understand - and the answer, to me, is action:

S.114
Title: A bill to amend titles XIX and XXI of the Social Security Act to ensure that every uninsured child in America has health insurance coverage, and for other purposes.

Latest Major Action: 1/24/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Finance.

I emailed his office asking how we can help this bill along.

Back to your question. Can we modify behavior? I hope we can - so that we can progress.

Keep in mind though that many people still have some pent up anger over his actions, and it is hard to let that go. Folks want answers that they may never get, so they keep bringing it up.

It is, in a sense, like how many feel about *. No matter what he does, we see the worst and it does not matter what he proposes, we don't like it because of who is doing it - ie, character does seem to matter.

[uppityperson]

24. Yup.Getting things done doesn't nec mean you like someone

Hold with me a moment here please. Part of being political, and getting stuff done politically, whether at work or in the "official" political world, is being polite, and dealing with people you may have strong emotions about. I am not saying we should repress our feelings or pretend we don't feel certain ways. There is a time and place to be able to express ourselves. And yes, DU is a good place for that. However, it is also too easy to keep emoting when more would get done by being polite, or political. This is part of what my simplistic poll stems from. And thank you for your thoughts on all this.

[The Straight Story]

29. Hence the term:

Politics.

I deal with this at work all the time. I may not like someone or their actions, but that does not mean I use that feeling to define my actions. We deal with it, move on, and yet at the same time we keep in the back of our mind the most defining moments with that person (ie, were they negative or positive).

I trust some people less, but I will still back them when I think they are right. Kerry was wrong on X, but he is right on Y - so I plan on supporting him on Y.

Overall though, I do not think he is the best candidate we have for president - and I think a spillover from the past is the question we ask ourselves when supporting his latest endeavors; will he go to the wall to support it to, or when confronted with potential issues will he ditch his efforts? How hard should I work to support what he is doing if I don't think he will work just as hard?

[whistle]

32. Oh crap, the opposition threw political etiquette out with the...

...baby's bathwater. Are Karl Rove or Tom DeLay or Tom Feeney being polite? Do repuke senators and congressmen and congresswomen on meet the press and other political talk shows act in a courteous manner toward the democratic guests. No, they talk over them, they interrupt, they shout them down, they twist the facts. Sure in these committee sessions on C-Span they show a polite almost nauseating demeanor toward their colleagues. But behind the scenes it's the Tom DeLay tactics that have been winning out. Our democratic representatives need to show that they are willing to fight for what they believe is right for the people who put them there.

[uppityperson]

36. Once again, please argue Kerry's merits elsewhere

We're discussing our behavior here. Please. Thank you for your consideration.

[whistle]

42. You wish to block my responses, go ahead, but your poll...

...invites a range of comments, some of which you may not like.

[uppityperson]

44. I do not wish to block you, merely ask you respect this poll

Most of your comments I agree with and would discuss with you elsewhere. All I am asking is to respect my poll and the purpose of it.

[imenja]

105. that is frankly strange

You ask what we think and then don't want to read responses that answer the question and give reasons why. So why did you post the thread in the first place?

[uppityperson]

112. I wanted to know behavior, not the reason behind it

If you don't want to say how you behave (react negatively to Kerry's name or not) without saying why, you don't have to participate. It is my poll, I designed it, it doesn't have to be fair or good or anything. That's all. If you want to think it is strange, well, it is. On purpose. I can and have read why people feel the way they do about Kerry elsewhere, was just wondering about behavior, how people react. Just the behavior. Strange, yes. But I have a right to be strange, ask strange questions, limit answers. Just don't respond if you don't want to.

[imenja]

115. You post a thread you will hear replies

and I find your efforts at censoring entirely offensive. You have no right to control people's minds or their responses.

[LittleClarkie]

117. Mind control?

You mean?

(rips off Uppity's mask) DR. EVIL! IEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[imenja]

120. Evil?

Not a term I throw around lightly, and I certainly would not use it here. I said what I meant. I find it offensive to pretend to solicit opinions and then deny those who disagree the right to speak. None of the Kerry admirers were told to shut up. Perhaps you find that acceptable. I do not.

[LittleClarkie]

122. It's three am. And my warped sense of humor is coming out.

I had an "Austin Powers" moment at the words "mind control."

And I found the thought that the OP could control anyone's mind somewhat humorous, as if he has supernatural powers.

I should go to bed, actually. I'm starting to go a bit goofy. G'nite.

[imenja]

127. actually the Bush town hall would be a better parallel

than Austin Powers, though I haven't seen the movie myself so the jokes don't resonate with me.

[uppityperson]

134. Strange I'll agree with but I am sorry you find me offensive.

I am not trying to censor or mind control, just looking for behavior, not the reasons for the behavior. I am sorry you find this offensive. Again, everyone feels how they do for what are valid reasons to them. I do not wish to argue anyone out of feeling any certain way because they have a right to feel how they do. I am willing to discuss the reasons for why they feel as they do elsewhere, all I wanted to know here was behavior, not the reasons for the behavior.

[whistle]

22. I answered your question of: "...can I hear or see John Kerry....

...without saying something negative" and my answer is no, I can't. Nor should democrats be expected to.

This man ran for president as the democratic candidate against a two faced, lying hypocrite who pandered to the corporate and wealthy interests in this country and John Kerry laid down for them. If he had said, I'll fight this to the supreme court and took actions to do so, things would have turned out much differently for the country, in my opinion.

You would like all democrats to turn their backs on that and allow John Kerry another chance to run in 2008? I don't think so.

He is a state senator representing the constituents of Massachusetts. As far as I'm concerned he will have to do some very impressive work for both the people of his state and this country before he considers running for president again, which I seriously doubt that he ever will.

We allowed the central moderate wing of the party it's chance in 2004 and they blew it. Now we need someone strong and aggressive and willing to bear teeth and who will lead the party to victory in 2008. All others should follow, or get the fuck out of the way! :wtf:

[uppityperson]

27. No, I am not asking anyone to forget or forgive

Or feel in any certain way. I think everyone should continue to feel as they do as they each have reasons for it. Please see my post #24, posted at the same time as your #22 I'm responding to. Thanks for your responses.

[Imagevision]

37. Whistle, I'll second that - every vote will be counted, Right??

[driver8]

75. Well said, whistle...

Kerry should have joined the dems and fought but he didn't. We all know that proving election fraud is difficult -- especially when you don't even try.

I was very excited about the prospect of John Kerry being our president. He is smart, well spoken, and plays well with others. However, I hope to hell that he is not our candidate next time. He basically handed the country back to the neocons.

[LittleClarkie]

4. Sometimes, I see him and want to cry

but that's nothing negative in regard to him. I just wish that was my president, is all.

Yes, I can see positive things in what he's doing. And when I look at his history, I STILL think he's the perfect guy to go after these bastards.

He's just not much of a conspiracy theorist any more. But I think I see him slowly getting the idea of what's going on, and getting angrier, and angrier about it. Good. We don't need David Banner. We need the Incredible Hulk (see avatar).

[The Straight Story]

6. I link Kerry name with his actions

Good and bad. Yeah he terribly disappointed me, see my post on that here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1439265&mesg_id=1440294

But I also think we can move beyond that and use his position to still help us along now. I would rather have someone on our side that let me down, then someone on the other side (who always lets us down).

He has a lot of good, and some bad, with respect to the goals of what I call the average progressive. Take the good, talk about the bad as needed in hopes it helps bring change, and keep working on things now with what we got.

I don't see Kerry as a leader now, I see others I think who have more ability to lead in these times - but I do see him as an agent of change we can tap into, a person who can assist us as he was hired to do.

And to me is the rub - he was hired to do a job, and I don't think he has done the best job he could have. That does not mean I want him fired, but it does mean (to me) I want him to do better. Whether or not he makes a difference remains to be seen.

[sendero]

7. It's all a matter of context..

... in the context of Senator, I think of Kerry very positively. In the context of a 2008 run, I think the opposite.

[pie]

9. No, I cannot. Can you?

[driver8]

78. I cannot, either... n/t

[yurbud]

10. How many pot roasts does wife have to cook to make up for adultery?

That's the position Kerry is in right now. Whatever good he does is measured against that betrayal.

Eventually, you forgive your wife or husband--but you are already married to them.

We were only engaged to Kerry, and it was an arranged betrothal at that.

Unless he does something to dramatically change the course of events, whatever else he does is meaningless.

[WildEyedLiberal]

12. Oh, the soap opera dramatics n/t

[LittleClarkie]

45. Matchmaker, matchmaker make me a match

Maybe for you, Yentl, not me. I was all set with my trousseau and everything.

Mmmm, pot roast.

[The Straight Story]

From his site:

The “nuclear option” seems to be all a lot of people can talk about lately. But the fact we're talking about it at all is a stark reminder that Washington is not doing the real work the American people elected us to do.

In the last few weeks, the House Majority Leader has gone on talk radio to attack a Supreme Court Justice appointed by Ronald Reagan, and the Leader of the Senate has accused those who disagree with his political tactics of waging a war against people of faith. But while they are jumping through hoops to ingratiate themselves to their party’s base, the real problems that keep American families up at night fall by the wayside.

Now I don't go around preaching my faith, but I'll tell you what I believe: When tens of thousands of innocent souls have perished in Darfur, when 11 million children are without health insurance in the United States of America and when our colossal debt subjects our economic future to the whims of central bankers in Asia -- no one can tell me that faith demands the Senate spend its time arguing over a handful of judges. No one with those priorities can use my faith to intimidate me.
...
I will not lay down and put this narrow, stubborn agenda ahead of our families, ahead of our Constitution, and ahead of our values. We are a proud nation that respects the rights of the minority, values the separation of church and state, and believes in honesty and personal responsibility. And I refuse to stand by while our democracy is trampled by politicians more concerned about amassing power than helping the people who sent them to Washington in the first place


.......................................................

Which is nice - but what will he DO about it?

Well, in his defense, here is something he has done:

John Kerry’s “Kids Come First” Act

Bill Summary of S.114

John Kerry’s Kids First Act will provide health insurance to every child in America.

65% of all uninsured children have at least one parent working full-time over the course of the year. That simply shouldn’t be the case.

Currently 11 million children in America are not getting the health care they need:

* 1 out of every 4 children is not fully up to date on basic immunizations;

* Half of all uninsured children have not had a well child visit in the past year;

* 1 out of every 3 children with chronic asthma do not get a prescription for medications they need;

* 1 in 5 has trouble accessing needed care; and

* 1 in 3 went without health insurance for all or part of 2002 and 2003.

The KidsFirst Act is a true federal-state partnership where the best elements of shared responsibility contribute to an affordable, reliable comprehensive system of care for all children.

The bill focuses on three main areas: how to get states to expand coverage; how to get parents to share in the responsibility of covering their children; and how to eliminate enrollment barriers that prevent eligible children from signing up for coverage.

...................

Now the question is - how can we help? He is now doing HIS part, introducing legislation. What do we need to do to help him?

[yurbud]

104. Is he going after real culprits, insurance companies?

Any solution that doesn't rein in those parasites with price controls and strict regulations on how much they can jerk people around or that doesn't cut them out of the health care business all together is at best a band aid solution.

The state will end up paying for the really sick and poor, and the insurance companies will skim maximum profits off the healthy and successful who would also get a better deal under a single payer arrangement.

[WildEyedLiberal]

11. This poll has really sad results

"I just CAN'T MANAGE to see the name KERRY without butting in with my negative opinions, even if it's irrelevant to the topic at hand!!!1"

That is truly, truly sad. What a telling poll this is.

[uppityperson]

16. Exactly. This is what I wanted to see, if people could see this

We all have good reasons for feeling how we do, even if they are different from each other. What we do have control over is how we react to those feelings, our actions. I am not asking how you feel, but how can you act. I am assuming that the people who voted yes probably aren't the ones who are posting comments, since they can not respond.

[whistle]

26. Nice push poll uppityperson, just like the rethugs do it, let's just

...suspend all that makes up an opinion and focus on what I am looking to manipulate out of this poll...

....well 1 out of 50 isn't too bad I suppose.

[uppityperson]

28. If you don't like my poll, just don't vote

It is simplistic on purpose as I am looking for 1 simple thing. If you don't like that, then don't participate. 1 out of 50?

Edited to add definition of "push poll" from http://www.wordspy.com/words/pushpoll.asp
push poll n. A series of calls, masquerading as a public-opinion poll, in which people who support a particular candidate offer negative information about a rival candidate.
Example Citation:
A legitimate public-opinion poll seeks to tally the views of the respondents, while a push poll gets its name from its intention to push voters away from an opponent and toward the candidate who paid for the calls.

[whistle]

34. Polls are never that simple uppity, if you ignore the exceptions

...you hardly can call your results representative, that's what republicans do

[uppityperson]

39. My results are representative of those who chose to answer.

This poll is simple. The emotions backing it are not. I understand the strong emotions as I have them too, have felt very hurt and betrayed. But the poll is simple and there are places elsewhere on DU to argue Kerry's positives and negatives.

[whistle]

48. Then perhaps you should ask for responses without comments..

...of any kind. So far a little over half the people responding (58%) say they can: "...appreciate what Kerry is doing now, regardless of how I feel about the election, and can say something positive about this."

I seriously doubt that most of the respondents really mean that, without being given an opportunity to explain their answer. Your qualification statements seem to stipulate that and your highly subjective responses indicate it as well.

Telling a DUer to go to another thread to comment hardly creates an atmosphere of healthy rhetorical exchanges, now does it uppityperson? The democratic party is not all milk-toast and tea. :kick:

[uppityperson]

51. I asssumed people could tell the difference between can and will

Can you do something= are you capable
Will you do something= please do so

I may have assumed too much. Good thing I'm not a professional poll taker. Or perhaps this is what professionals do to swing poll results.

Asking a DUer to go to another thread to comment when the original message states "I am NOT asking for anyone to say how they feel about the election OR Kerry. I am asking ONLY if it is possible for you to hear/see Kerry and not respond about the election." seems reasonable to me. Yes this is simplistic and yes the world isn't like that and yes the democratic party is not all milk-toast and tea but it is my poll and I am trying to find out 1 simple thing. And yes there are manners involved in following a thread's purpose also.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yurbud]

13. LETTER to Kerry on betraying middle class in Iraq and at home

Senator Kerry,

I appreciate you taking the Bush administration to
task on their short term focus on energy, but I wish
you had gone further.

As you probably know, the world's oil supply is at or
near it's peak and set to decline in the coming
decades, just as demand from China and India shoots
through the roof.

This is why the Bushies are putting all those bases in
Central Asia that we don't hear about as well as the
more public invasion of Iraq and plans to invade Iran.

If you are serious about our energy situation, tell
people the truth. Once they realize the trend in
gasoline prices will be generally upward until it's
gone, they'll be more receptive to funding alternative
energy technology like bio-fuels, wind, and solar.

Why are you letting American soldiers die for a dying
industry? Are squeezing the last drops of profit out
of oil a more worthy cause the ill-fated crusade
against communism in Vietnam? At least that conflict
had an ideological figleaf to hide behind. The
current profiteering only has the cartoonish facade of
a phony war on terror--pretending to hunt terrorist in
innocent countries while our Saudi friends who
financed the attacks skate free.

I think you know most of this. As a military person,
you had to know that even if Saddam had the weapons
the Bush people claimed, he could not possibly use
them against us without having Iraq wiped off the map.
Being an evil dictator didn't make him stupid.

The recent British memo shows that Tony Blair and Bush
knew this as well.

You also know that to the degree terrorism is a real
problem, our wars and interventions on behalf of big
business increase the risk not decrease. We have no
business trying to undermine or remove democratically
elected presidents like Hugo Chavez, no matter what
company wants a better deal on his oil.

I am embarassed by and ashamed of having elected
officials that lie and talk down to me and only serve
the chamber of commerce.

Right now, the pro-business democrats seem to waiting
for corporate money to flee the GOP when they get
horrified of the religious right, but while you are
waiting for that dream date, your steady girlfriend,
progressives, are going to leave you.

The DLC brand of pragmatism is just the sort of thing
that led to the formation of the Republican party and
death of the Whigs when neither of the major parties
provided a voice the needs and idealism of regular
people.

That could happen again soon if Democrats don't swear
of the corporate juice and start representing the rest
of us.

The lies of 9/11 and Iraq are already becoming
threadbare as people have access to information on the
internet our media and leaders refuse to give us. If
people can see through those, it won't take much more
effort to see through the almost as thin lies of a
party that claims to represent workers and the middle
class but always defers to corporations when push
comes to shove.

[LittleClarkie]

15. So we should put you down as a "no"?

Or would that be a "yes"?

[yurbud]

136. a no pending further evidence (and hoping for it)

Would I support what he's doing? Yes.

Do I trust him to set the tone, direction, and lead the charge for left? No.

But if some of his behind the scenes machinations bear fruit, I'm willing to reconsider.

[LittleClarkie]

18. I think I understand the purpose of the poll

as I have thought sometimes that all I'd have to do is post the word "Kerry" and nothing else, and we'd get posts about how he let us down in the election. Folks will come into threads that have nothing to do with the election just to repeat that they feel betrayed.

Sometimes I think these people are like bulls, and Kerry is dressed in red.

[whistle]

30. What bills has John Kerry introduced in the senate since the...

...election? He hasn't given anything for us to focus on except his election. The senate committee that he was on several weeks ago, he wasn't even sitting on the panel until his turn came up. I'm not even sure what committee that was, John Bolton nomination, I donno, but the chairman commented on whether he had enough time to prepare and then Kerry said he had been watching the committee session on TV from his office. Why was he not there in the session where he could be totally focused?

[uppityperson]

31. Please take this argument elsewhere and not threadjack

this poll is not to argue about Kerry but to ask about the polleys behavior. Thank you for respecting this.

[whistle]

33. What is a "polleys behavior"?

[uppityperson]

47. Mis-spelled, meant pollee, one who takes a poll

probably not a real word.

[LittleClarkie]

50. I was talking about why you were doing the poll in the first place

Why would that not be a valid part of the discussion?

[uppityperson]

57. Huh?

I am confused. You respond #18 as to why the poll. #30 whistle responds regarding Kerry, on to my #31 request to not threadjack (to whistle), #33 and #47 clearing up a typo. So, now you ask why asking about the poll would not be valid?

To simplify and answer #50 here, it seems like there are people who can only respond negatively when they hear Kerry's name. I knew it would get Kerry comments as some people are still so emotionally hurt that they must answer this way. We all have valid reasons for feeling the ways we do, whether happy or pissed or otherwise at Mr.Kerry. What we have control of is our actions to our emotions. I was wondering who would respond that was understanding of this also, if anyone.

I was also hoping that some one might read this and think about themselves and others, and I was hoping it would help me think about myself and how my emotions influence my behavior.

[whistle]

64. A poll is a survey, someone who responds to a survey is called

...a respondent. You are conducting a survey in this thread, which you posted at the top. If you want the purest results possible, you let the survey run it's course without any further interference or manipulation of opinions. If someone needs a point to be clarified, they can email you. But you seem to be the one, uppityperson, who should remain detached from the poll and its related comments.

So, your role ought to be state your questions, clearly state the qualifications for a respondent to answer and then let the poll/survey run it's course without any interference on your part that would cause the results to run in favor of one option or the other.

I seriously doubt now, if the results will be unbiased.

:hide:

[LittleClarkie]

54. In answer to your question

A list someone else has been good enough to compile since the first of the year:

04/28/2005 Kerry, Lautenberg Introduce Legislation to Stop Taxpayer-Funded Fake News Hearing on Bill Set for Early May
04/27/2005 John Kerry: White House, Congress Should “Go Back to the Drawing Board” on Energy Plan
04/25/2005 John Kerry to Address America’s Dangerous Dependence on Saudi Oil
04/21/2005 John Kerry on Republican Congressional Leadership's Failure To Focus on Real Priorities of the American People
04/21/2005 John Kerry on Republican Congressional Leadership's Failure To Focus on Real Priorities of the American People
04/21/2005 John Kerry to Address Republican Congressional Leadership's Failure to Focus On Real Priorities of the American People
04/20/2005 John Kerry on Retirement of Senator Jim Jeffords
04/20/2005 John Kerry: It’s Time for President Bush to Address Gas Prices, Dependence on Foreign Oil
04/19/2005 Senator John Kerry spoke this afternoon at a Senate hearing on toxic mercury pollution. The Merrimack Valley is one of nine mercury 'hotspots,' or areas with elevated mercury levels, in New England. The Senate Democratic Policy Committee held the hearing on mercury in response to repeated denials of Republican-led committees to hold hearings on the matter.
04/19/2005 John Kerry at Senate Hearing on Toxic Mercury Pollution
04/19/2005 John Kerry Fights to Halt Devastating Transit Cuts to Massachusetts Projects
04/19/2005 Statement from Senator John Kerry on Pope Benedict XVI
04/18/2005 Senate OKs death benefit boost for families of active-duty troops
04/14/2005 Channel 5 in Boston Reports on John Kerry's Victory for Military Families
04/14/2005 Kerry, Lautenberg Secure Hearing and Mark-Up on Fake News
04/14/2005 Senators John Kerry and Frank Lautenberg Say Taxpayer-funded “News” Abused by Administration Should Have Disclaimer
04/13/2005 Kerry pushes military initiative
04/13/2005 Senator Kerry Takes Military Story to the Senate
04/13/2005 Senate Passes Two John Kerry Amendments for Troops
04/12/2005 John Kerry Fights to Add Troop Benefits to Supplemental
04/11/2005 Statement by John Kerry on John Bolton’s Nomination as U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations
04/07/2005 Kerry: Publicize benefit for vets
04/02/2005 Statement from Sen. John Kerry on the Passing of Pope John Paul II
03/30/2005 Bush's Budget Assaults Our Values, by John Kerry
03/30/2005
03/29/2005 Budgeting our values, by John Kerry
03/29/2005 Leading health care, children's and labor organizations support KidsFirst
03/27/2005 Dishonest' Bush budget ignores needs of the nation, by John Kerry
03/26/2005 Budgeting our values, by John Kerry
03/25/2005 Bush’s latest budget plan is assault on country’s values, by John Kerry
03/24/2005 Leahy, Jeffords, Boxer and Kerry
03/22/2005 John Kerry on EPA Hiding Harvard Scientific Data on Health Effects of Mercury
03/17/2005 John Kerry Statement on Senate Action to Save Medicaid from Drastic Cuts
03/17/2005 John Kerry Says Washington Budget is Out of Touch With American Values
03/17/2005 Statement by John Kerry on Senate Action to Save Medicaid from Drastic Cuts
03/17/2005 Senate Passes Landrieu-Kerry Reserve Fund For Reservists and Small Businesses
03/16/2005 John Kerry will make a major speech on America's budget priorities on Thursday, March 17, to the Center for National Policy
03/16/2005 Statement by John Kerry on Paul Wolfowitz’s Nomination to be President of the World Bank
03/16/2005 LAWMAKERS ANNOUNCE NEW FUNDS FOR YOUTHBUILD PROGRAMS IN MASSACHUSETTS
03/16/2005 Senate Opens Arctic Refuge to Drilling
03/15/2005 John Kerry on New Mercury Rules:
03/15/2005 Senators John Kerry and Maria Cantwell Team Up to Fight Drilling for Oil in Arctic Refuge
03/14/2005 Kerry, Cantwell Fight Arctic Drilling
03/11/2005 Statement of the National Association of Public Hospitals and Health Systems in Support of the “Kids Come First Act of 2005” (S. 114)
03/11/2005 Statement from Edward J. McElroy, President, American Federation of Teachers, Supporting “Kids First Act of 2005”
03/11/2005 “Kids Come First Act” Addresses Medicaid Challenges Facing Children
03/11/2005 Vote Kids Lends Support to Kids First Bill:
03/11/2005 March of Dimes Supports “Kids Come First Act of 2005”
03/09/2005 John Kerry Announces Half-Million ‘Citizen Cosponsors’ Of KidsFirst Health Care Plan
03/09/2005 John Kerry grassroots press conference
03/09/2005 John Kerry on Bush's Energy Plan: "Americans Deserve Better"
03/08/2005 Kerry Organizes Grassroots Coalition Behind KidsFirst Act, Calls for Senate Action
03/08/2005 John Kerry on President Clinton
03/07/2005 Statement by John Kerry on John Bolton's Nomination to be Ambassador to the United Nations
03/03/2005 Kerry, Bipartisan Coalition Win 11th Hour Push to Save Boston Teacher from Deportation
03/02/2005 Jackie Robinson to Receive Congressional Gold Medal
03/02/2005 Jackie Robinson Receives Congressional Gold Medal For His Civil Rights Work
02/24/2005 John Kerry on U.S.-Russia Nuclear Agreement
02/17/2005 John Kerry Calls for Election Reform
02/16/2005 John Kerry on Climate Change:
02/15/2005 John Kerry: Military Families Must be Part of Supplemental
02/14/2005 John Kerry Says America Must Stand By Our Military
02/11/2005 Senator John Kerry to Discuss Strengthening America's Military at Annual Worcester Telegram & Gazette Visions Ceremony
02/09/2005 John Kerry on Medicare Costs Estimates and the Health Care Crisis in America
02/09/2005 Remarks by Senator John Kerry on Climate Change
02/08/2005 John Kerry to Address Climate Change at The Brookings
02/07/2005 Statement by John Kerry on the President’s Budget
02/03/2005 Statement by John Kerry on the Nomination of Alberto Gonzales for Attorney General
02/03/2005 Statement by John Kerry on Social Security
02/02/2005 Statement by John Kerry on State of the Union Address
01/31/2005 Statement by John Kerry on the President’s Budget
01/27/2005 Remarks by Senator John Kerry on Kids First to Families USA
01/27/2005 John Kerry Rallies Families USA to Fight for "Kids First"
01/27/2005 Senator John Kerry "Kids First"
01/26/2005 John Kerry’s “Kids Come First” Act
01/21/2005 THE ARCTIC NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE
01/19/2005 Senator John Kerry Opposes Nomination Of Dr. Condoleezza Rice for Secretary of State
01/16/2005 Senator John Kerry Statement on Martin Luther King, Jr.
01/16/2005 Statement of Senator John Kerry
01/16/2005 Statement of Senator John Kerry
01/14/2005 STANDING BY OUR TROOPS AND MILITARY FAMILIES
01/06/2005 Statement by Senator Kerry on the Nomination of Alberto Gonzales for Attorney General
01/05/2005 Senator Kerry Statement on the Congressional Certification of Electoral College Results

Nothing else to focus on?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

19. I Like Kerry

I have one minor/moderate issue with him which I'm not going to mention here, especially since I'm feeling relatively confident now that he'll resolve that issue for me in due course.

DTH

[Crunchy Frog]

20. I'm ready to move on.

I'm tired of all the bashing that goes on here.

[LittleClarkie]

40. Can't we all just post our positive little stories

and if that's a problem, let them put us on ignore?

It sounds like you're thinking of leaving. That would be a shame. We need all the level heads we can get. Sometimes this place is alright. Right now, we seem to be in bash overdrive. I'm used to it for my guy, but I don't get what's up with the Clark bashing. Was it like that alot in the primaries?

I hope it will get better, and I will work to make it better. May not work, but I'm stubborn, and I'll be damned if I'll let the naysayers chase me away.

[Crunchy Frog]

56. No, not ready to move on from this site,

(well, sometimes I feel that way) but ready to move on from the election and the primaries.

The Clark bashing comes in waves, and it was a bit of a tidal wave today. I really don't know what motivates the hatred. And yes, it was like that in the primaries. I didn't really expect it to reignite after the election, but it looks like it's something we're going to be dealing with for the forseeable future.

I think maybe some of us should form an Alliance of Level Headed People Against Democrat Bashing, or something like that.:)

[peacetalksforall]

21. I voted 'can appreciate', but he has to be able to see what common

DU participants can 'see' in regard to the agenda for takeover by our fellow citizens and act against the takeover.

Caveats: To retain my appreciation of what he is doing now he must spend an amount of time equal to his recent activities on the following:

He can never do anything as stupid as giving PNAC and the cabal permission to kill. I can appreciate, but I will always be a little suspect.

I don't take kindly to people who didn't do and don't do enough to prevent the theft of my most precious possession - my vote. How we could accept that four private Republican companies could give us an honest product is beyond me. How we can accept the corporate netowrks can condutct their corporate polls, predict their corporate numbers, and call their corporate President is beyond me.

He must live up to the 'of, for, by the people'. I will not be able to tolerate permissions to corporate takeovers of anything else in our lives - especially loss of lives, limbs, organs, immune systems, memories, sleep, families, future, hope, peace of mind, rights, jobs, opportunitiy, courts, privacy, independence, balance of power.

[Darranar]

23. No. n/t

[iwantmycountryback]

25. The only negative thing I think about with him and the election

Is that he did not win.

[Imagevision]

35. "All of your votes will be counted this time" (?)...

I saw an interview with Kerry 7-8 weeks back where he actually stated; "I believe the last minute video of OBL just before the election is what did me in" --that's a quote by the way.

Limbaugh & Hannity could actually re-use previously recorded material to use again if Kerry somehow manages to be a candidate again, I couldn't handle a replay of the swiftboatee thing all over again - regardless of how untruthful it may have been!

This is coming from someone who was tremendously saddened after Kerry admitted defeat and allowed them to get away with Ohio maneuvers.

John I Love you too bro...support someone who can talk the walk & walk the talk.

[MODemocrat]

38. I'll always appreciate what John Kerry has done for his country

He's a stateman, and he does love his country. He was getting such huge crowds at his rallies, and things were looking real good for him. I don't like the idea of him giving in so quickly and conceding to Bush.
In my opinion, he just quit fighting; that being said though, I still think he is a great human being.
:cry: :shrug: :-(

[stillcool]

41. I appreciate Senator Kerry.....

and respect him as well. The amount of garbage spewn on these threads totally grosses me out. I'm thinking that people that feel the need to regurgitate their 'Kerry-screwed-me' crap, with every post mentioning his name should maybe read a little more and post a little less.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

46. Put you down for a "no", right?

By the way, you probably have no idea what I believe. I will be happy to discuss it elsewhere as I am trying to find something else out with this poll.

[whistle]

52. You should have asked for a vote with no comments uppity

...no hw can you possibly put down the above person as a "no" from that comment, either he/she voted for option "1" or option "2", that's all. The comment is only a sidebar, the votes that are cast are what count.

[LittleClarkie]

55. It'0With apologies to Seinfeld and the soup nazi

Vote, then sit down. No comment for you!

[whistle]

60. Fine, but name one thing that John Kerry has done or introduced

...in the way of bills and committee positions since the senate has been in session this year? I can't.

Since you brought up the soup Nazi, "...making chicken salad out of chicken shit is hard work".

[LittleClarkie]

67. I posted it the first time you asked the question, but here it is again

A list someone else has been good enough to compile since the first of the year:

04/28/2005 Kerry, Lautenberg Introduce Legislation to Stop Taxpayer-Funded Fake News Hearing on Bill Set for Early May
04/27/2005 John Kerry: White House, Congress Should “Go Back to the Drawing Board” on Energy Plan
04/25/2005 John Kerry to Address America’s Dangerous Dependence on Saudi Oil
04/21/2005 John Kerry on Republican Congressional Leadership's Failure To Focus on Real Priorities of the American People
04/21/2005 John Kerry on Republican Congressional Leadership's Failure To Focus on Real Priorities of the American People
04/21/2005 John Kerry to Address Republican Congressional Leadership's Failure to Focus On Real Priorities of the American People
04/20/2005 John Kerry on Retirement of Senator Jim Jeffords
04/20/2005 John Kerry: It’s Time for President Bush to Address Gas Prices, Dependence on Foreign Oil
04/19/2005 Senator John Kerry spoke this afternoon at a Senate hearing on toxic mercury pollution. The Merrimack Valley is one of nine mercury 'hotspots,' or areas with elevated mercury levels, in New England. The Senate Democratic Policy Committee held the hearing on mercury in response to repeated denials of Republican-led committees to hold hearings on the matter.
04/19/2005 John Kerry at Senate Hearing on Toxic Mercury Pollution
04/19/2005 John Kerry Fights to Halt Devastating Transit Cuts to Massachusetts Projects
04/19/2005 Statement from Senator John Kerry on Pope Benedict XVI
04/18/2005 Senate OKs death benefit boost for families of active-duty troops
04/14/2005 Channel 5 in Boston Reports on John Kerry's Victory for Military Families
04/14/2005 Kerry, Lautenberg Secure Hearing and Mark-Up on Fake News
04/14/2005 Senators John Kerry and Frank Lautenberg Say Taxpayer-funded “News” Abused by Administration Should Have Disclaimer
04/13/2005 Kerry pushes military initiative
04/13/2005 Senator Kerry Takes Military Story to the Senate
04/13/2005 Senate Passes Two John Kerry Amendments for Troops
04/12/2005 John Kerry Fights to Add Troop Benefits to Supplemental
04/11/2005 Statement by John Kerry on John Bolton’s Nomination as U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations
04/07/2005 Kerry: Publicize benefit for vets
04/02/2005 Statement from Sen. John Kerry on the Passing of Pope John Paul II
03/30/2005 Bush's Budget Assaults Our Values, by John Kerry
03/30/2005
03/29/2005 Budgeting our values, by John Kerry
03/29/2005 Leading health care, children's and labor organizations support KidsFirst
03/27/2005 Dishonest' Bush budget ignores needs of the nation, by John Kerry
03/26/2005 Budgeting our values, by John Kerry
03/25/2005 Bush’s latest budget plan is assault on country’s values, by John Kerry
03/24/2005 Leahy, Jeffords, Boxer and Kerry
03/22/2005 John Kerry on EPA Hiding Harvard Scientific Data on Health Effects of Mercury
03/17/2005 John Kerry Statement on Senate Action to Save Medicaid from Drastic Cuts
03/17/2005 John Kerry Says Washington Budget is Out of Touch With American Values
03/17/2005 Statement by John Kerry on Senate Action to Save Medicaid from Drastic Cuts
03/17/2005 Senate Passes Landrieu-Kerry Reserve Fund For Reservists and Small Businesses
03/16/2005 John Kerry will make a major speech on America's budget priorities on Thursday, March 17, to the Center for National Policy
03/16/2005 Statement by John Kerry on Paul Wolfowitz’s Nomination to be President of the World Bank
03/16/2005 LAWMAKERS ANNOUNCE NEW FUNDS FOR YOUTHBUILD PROGRAMS IN MASSACHUSETTS
03/16/2005 Senate Opens Arctic Refuge to Drilling
03/15/2005 John Kerry on New Mercury Rules:
03/15/2005 Senators John Kerry and Maria Cantwell Team Up to Fight Drilling for Oil in Arctic Refuge
03/14/2005 Kerry, Cantwell Fight Arctic Drilling
03/11/2005 Statement of the National Association of Public Hospitals and Health Systems in Support of the “Kids Come First Act of 2005” (S. 114)
03/11/2005 Statement from Edward J. McElroy, President, American Federation of Teachers, Supporting “Kids First Act of 2005”
03/11/2005 “Kids Come First Act” Addresses Medicaid Challenges Facing Children
03/11/2005 Vote Kids Lends Support to Kids First Bill:
03/11/2005 March of Dimes Supports “Kids Come First Act of 2005”
03/09/2005 John Kerry Announces Half-Million ‘Citizen Cosponsors’ Of KidsFirst Health Care Plan
03/09/2005 John Kerry grassroots press conference
03/09/2005 John Kerry on Bush's Energy Plan: "Americans Deserve Better"
03/08/2005 Kerry Organizes Grassroots Coalition Behind KidsFirst Act, Calls for Senate Action
03/08/2005 John Kerry on President Clinton
03/07/2005 Statement by John Kerry on John Bolton's Nomination to be Ambassador to the United Nations
03/03/2005 Kerry, Bipartisan Coalition Win 11th Hour Push to Save Boston Teacher from Deportation
03/02/2005 Jackie Robinson to Receive Congressional Gold Medal
03/02/2005 Jackie Robinson Receives Congressional Gold Medal For His Civil Rights Work
02/24/2005 John Kerry on U.S.-Russia Nuclear Agreement
02/17/2005 John Kerry Calls for Election Reform
02/16/2005 John Kerry on Climate Change:
02/15/2005 John Kerry: Military Families Must be Part of Supplemental
02/14/2005 John Kerry Says America Must Stand By Our Military
02/11/2005 Senator John Kerry to Discuss Strengthening America's Military at Annual Worcester Telegram & Gazette Visions Ceremony
02/09/2005 John Kerry on Medicare Costs Estimates and the Health Care Crisis in America
02/09/2005 Remarks by Senator John Kerry on Climate Change
02/08/2005 John Kerry to Address Climate Change at The Brookings
02/07/2005 Statement by John Kerry on the President’s Budget
02/03/2005 Statement by John Kerry on the Nomination of Alberto Gonzales for Attorney General
02/03/2005 Statement by John Kerry on Social Security
02/02/2005 Statement by John Kerry on State of the Union Address
01/31/2005 Statement by John Kerry on the President’s Budget
01/27/2005 Remarks by Senator John Kerry on Kids First to Families USA
01/27/2005 John Kerry Rallies Families USA to Fight for "Kids First"
01/27/2005 Senator John Kerry "Kids First"
01/26/2005 John Kerry’s “Kids Come First” Act
01/21/2005 THE ARCTIC NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE
01/19/2005 Senator John Kerry Opposes Nomination Of Dr. Condoleezza Rice for Secretary of State
01/16/2005 Senator John Kerry Statement on Martin Luther King, Jr.
01/16/2005 Statement of Senator John Kerry
01/16/2005 Statement of Senator John Kerry
01/14/2005 STANDING BY OUR TROOPS AND MILITARY FAMILIES
01/06/2005 Statement by Senator Kerry on the Nomination of Alberto Gonzales for Attorney General
01/05/2005 Senator Kerry Statement on the Congressional Certification of Electoral College Results

[whistle]

71. I missed it earlier, sorry....

...so Kerry seems to be leading a charge against mercury pollution, that's great.

Also on 2/17/2005 he called for election reform and he has been sponsoring "Putting Kids First". On 3/17/2005 he wanted to save Medicare/Medicaid from drastic cuts in the budget. Then on 04/28/2005 Kerry, Lautenberg introduced legislation to stop taxpayer-funded fake news.

I don't see a thing that Kerry has done regarding election fraud yet, but that is what he said he would address during his campaign.

[LittleClarkie]

74. He said he would address many things, however, get out your google

and type in "Don McTigue and Ohio" and see what you get.

[whistle]

76. That's a little dated....

...fisrt item listed:

<snip>

Democrats Take up Fight over Ballots
By Bill Sloat
Cleveland Plain Dealer

Thursday 18 November 2004

Cincinnati - Seeming to brush aside John Kerry's concession speech, the Ohio Democratic Party has launched a federal court fight over nearly 155,000 provisional ballots by contending a proper accounting of those votes might decide who really won.

In Ohio, Bush now holds a lead of about 136,000 votes over Kerry.

<end>

Besides, Kerry had nothing to do with that.

[LittleClarkie]

79. Here's something from March

March 2, 2005

Blackwell Requests Dismissal or Change of Venue of Recount Case, and Opposes Hearing Unless He Can Take Depositions of Kerry and Edwards

Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell has asked the Columbus federal court to dismiss, or to transfer venue, in the recount case, and has expressed opposition to the court's conducting a hearing unless he can take the depositions of John Kerry and John Edwards.

That's the Kerry/Edwards lawyer, McTigue is, so indeed it has something to do with him.

[whistle]

83. So will John Kerry and John Edwards agree to give depositions

...to the Columbus federal court? I seriously doubt that, so what actions are being taken by McTigue to prove election fraud in Ohio? Or anywhere else? Are Kerry/Edwards funding this in any manner? Or is it just going to die a quiet death by lack of interest?

This is a stretch.

[LittleClarkie]

84. Fucked if I know darling. That's where the trail stops.

I haven't heard it's been dismissed, so I assume it's still alive.

And it shows that SOMETHING is still happening. What exactly I dunno.

[whistle]

87. So then if you don't know and the country doesn't know then...

...coming back to the poll question options, how can people truthfully answer:

"...I am able to appreciate what Kerry is doing now, regardless of how I feel about the election, and can say something positive about this."

The Kerry people should be broadcasting his accomplishments, everyday if they want him to be the leader of the democratic party. Is John Kerry the leader of the party or not? Who is the leader of the democratic party?

[LittleClarkie]

88. We are, we do

Despite getting yelled at, we do.

Constantly.

Where have you been.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LittleClarkie]

92. You said the Kerry people should be out announcing this stuff

The Kerry people are, here anyway. I do. Kerrygoddess does. Various others.

Minority Leader is Reid.

Defacto leader until somebody knocks him out of there is Kerry.

Boxer, Clinton, Feingold, Dean, Dodd, Biden, Durbin have all taken leads depending on what was out there to be pushed, legislation and nomination-wize.

What kind of an answer were you looking for?

[whistle]

94. My point exactly, Kerry is not acting like a leader and he is not...

...leading. Our party needs a leader, not a 'defector' leader. John Kerry is the senator from Massachusetts and he can do a great job in that role and run for two more decades if he wants it and do many good things for this country.

But, our party needs a real leader and if Kerry steps aside and away from being a pretender, the vacuum that results will be filled by a number of somebodies that "WE" can then choose to lead this party to victory in 2006 and the WH in 2008.

[LittleClarkie]

97. I'm not talking about leading us to victory in 2006 and 2008

I'm talking about a terrific Senator from Massachusetts who's working and fighting for several issues at once right now. I don't think folks who's kids don't have health care want him to step aside right now.

You're talking primary season already. I'm not. Right now, some would say he's acting as the Shadow President. Some would say he's doing a pretty good job of that, me included.

The word is defacto, btw, which means "in effect," "to all intents and purposes," "in reality," "actually," or "effectively".

He's taking a leadership role now, as Senator. Would you have him stay at home and twittle his thumbs?

[whistle]

101. I said he can act in the role of Senator all he wants and fight for...

...all of the issues he wishes.

As far as telling me what the word defacto means, I know what it means and I put the word defector in quotes because I wanted to draw attention to the fact that Kerry in the early morning hours conceded defeat to Bush when the whole democratic party and voters wanted him to take a stand as our leader and fight those who stole the election.

He didn't, he defected to the other side by that action. That will cast a shadow and haunt his legacy in his attempt to acquire the highest elected office in the land unfortunately forever or until he does something else to redeem himself.

So Kerry is not the leader of the democratic party, defacto or otherwise. He certainly can assume a leadership position in the senate anytime he wishes to take charge.

[whistle]

102. That's it, I hit 101 and the clock hit 12:00 midnight so I'm going to

..sleep now. It looks like I was the only one to recommend this thread, so far. Maybe that will change by tomorrow morning.:kick:

[Dr Fate]

49. Kerry is cool- but he needs to lose the nuance.

In fact, with a few exceptions, they ALL need to lose the nuance.

Specifically & topically, I want Kerry to speak out in support of John Conyer's new WMD & Media propaganda queries.

I voted "for" Kerry in this poll, BTW.

[tishaLA]

53. Of course I can say positive things about Sen. Kerry

He's a great senator with a vibrant personal and professional history. I trust his future will be as bright as his past.

[whistle]

61. Intentions do not define a person, only actions do!

[uppityperson]

59. I have to leave for a couple hours to go teach a class

I'll check in when I return. Thank you everyone for your thoughts and for participating. I really appreciate having a place like DU to be able to do all this with you.

[Lerkfish]

62. I like what Kerry has been doing lately, but I LOVE what Conyers, Boxer an

and Kucinich are doing, among others. To be positive, I hope their committment to holding republican feet to the fire catches on like a fast moving virus among other democratic congresscritters.

[MoonRiver]

63. I hope Kerry keeps doing a good job as Senator, and I applaud

his efforts in that capacity. But his lackluster 2004 presidential campaign and pathetic folding before all the votes were counted have permanently produced, in my mind, a negative perception of him as a future presidential candidate. I DO NOT WANT HIM TO GET THE DEMOCATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINATION AGAIN. Yet, I'm very happy he's doing good things in the Senate. I do not see this as ambiguous. Some people, e.g. John Kerry, are just better in middle management. They are not CEO material, but that is OK.

[whistle]

65. Can you name one and post it here please

[MoonRiver]

69. Name "one" what? eom

[LittleClarkie]

73. As of April 18th: Status of all bills filed by Sen. Kerry in 2005 Session

1. S.114 : A bill to amend titles XIX and XXI of the Social Security Act to ensure that every uninsured child in America has health insurance coverage, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. (introduced 1/24/2005) Cosponsors (6)
Committees: Senate Finance
Latest Major Action: 1/24/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Finance.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. S.137 : A bill to modify the contract consolidation requirements in the Small Business Act, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. (introduced 1/24/2005) Cosponsors (None)
Committees: Senate Small Business and Entrepreneurship
Latest Major Action: 1/24/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3. S.138 : A bill to make improvements to the microenterprise programs administered by the Small Business Administration.
Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. (introduced 1/24/2005) Cosponsors (1)
Committees: Senate Small Business and Entrepreneurship
Latest Major Action: 1/24/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4. S.139 : A bill to amend the Small Business Act to direct the Administrator of the Small Business Administration to establish a vocational and technical entrepreneurship development program.
Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. (introduced 1/24/2005) Cosponsors (None)
Committees: Senate Small Business and Entrepreneurship
Latest Major Action: 1/24/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5. S.240 : A bill to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to allow small business employers a credit against income tax with respect to employees who participate in the military reserve components and are called to active duty and with respect to replacement employees and to allow a comparable credit for activated military reservists who are self-employed, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. (introduced 2/1/2005) Cosponsors (6)
Committees: Senate Finance
Latest Major Action: 2/1/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Finance.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6. S.269 : A bill to provide emergency relief to small business concerns affected by a significant increase in the price of heating oil, natural gas, propane, or kerosene, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. (introduced 2/2/2005) Cosponsors (20)
Committees: Senate Small Business and Entrepreneurship
Latest Major Action: 2/2/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7. S.460 : A bill to expand and enhance benefits for members of the Armed Forces and their families, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. (introduced 2/18/2005) Cosponsors (None)
Committees: Senate Finance
Latest Major Action: 2/18/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Finance.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

8. S.522 : -- Private Bill; A bill for the relief of Obain Attouoman.
Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. (introduced 3/3/2005) Cosponsors (None)
Committees: Senate Judiciary
Latest Major Action: 3/3/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9. S.599 : A bill to provide duty-free treatment for certain tuna.
Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. (introduced 3/10/2005) Cosponsors (1)
Committees: Senate Finance
Latest Major Action: 3/10/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Finance.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10. S.AMDT.39 to S.256 Purpose will be available when the amendment is proposed for consideration. See Congressional Record for text.
Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. (introduced 3/2/2005) Cosponsors (None)
Latest Major Action: 3/2/2005 Senate amendment submitted


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

11. S.AMDT.41 to S.256 Purpose will be available when the amendment is proposed for consideration. See Congressional Record for text.
Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. (introduced 3/2/2005) Cosponsors (None)
Latest Major Action: 3/2/2005 Senate amendment submitted


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12. S.AMDT.84 to S.256 Purpose will be available when the amendment is proposed for consideration. See Congressional Record for text.
Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. (introduced 3/7/2005) Cosponsors (None)
Latest Major Action: 3/7/2005 Senate amendment submitted


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

13. S.AMDT.249 to S.CON.RES.18 Purpose will be available when the amendment is proposed for consideration. See Congressional Record for text.
Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. (introduced 3/17/2005) Cosponsors (None)
Latest Major Action: 3/17/2005 Senate amendment submitted


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

14. S.AMDT.333 to H.R.1268 To extend the period of temporary continuation of basic allowance for housing for dependents of members of the Armed Forces who die on active duty.
Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. (introduced 4/11/2005) Cosponsors (5)
Latest Major Action: 4/13/2005 Senate amendment agreed to. Status: Amendment SA 333 agreed to in Senate by Voice Vote.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

15. S.AMDT.334 to H.R.1268 To increase the military death gratuity to $100,000, effective with respect to any deaths of members of the Armed Forces on active duty after October 7, 2001.
Sponsor: Sen Kerry, John F. (introduced 4/11/2005) Cosponsors (9)
Latest Major Action: 4/13/2005 Senate amendment agreed to. Status: Amendment SA 334 agreed to in Senate by Voice Vote.


Thanks TayTay.

[whistle]

80. Have any of these passed or as amendments attached to...

...bills, did those bills pass?

[LittleClarkie]

82. Dude!

You asked what he'd been doing. There ya go. He's been doing stuff. I know two of his Military Bill of Rights items passed in the military spending bill. Aside from that, I'm done.

Go to www.senate.gov or http://thomas.loc.gov/ (the Congressional Record and look stuff up for yourself.

[whistle]

85. Stuff sounds like busy work....the Military Bill of Rights items

...are good for the troops and needed, who is tooting Kerry's horn on these? Why are we not hearing about these in a big way fro the military people and their families?

[LittleClarkie]

86. Well you see, every time Kerry folks toot his horn around here

they get yelled at.

He's also co-sponsoring an election reform bill with Clinton and Boxer.

Yeah, he's been busy alright. He's busy this week pushing the kid's health care bill. Last week he was busy stopping Bolton. That one might be bearing fruit, as the demented walrus appears to be stalled at the moment.

[whistle]

89. Kerry did not sit through the Bolton hearings he walked in two...

...minutes before he was to make his statements and actually said he was watching the testimony on TV in his office. I think that was when the former director of intelligence research, (sorry I can't think of his name right off, was reaming out Boltons past misconduct), whether Bolton gets nominated or not will have very little to do with anything Kerry said.

Listen I voted for John Kerry in Nov, and I supported his efforts. He lost the election and it is just my opinion, but I think the election was stolen. Now maybe Kerry can't do a thing about that, just like Al Gore could not do anything about the 2000 stolen election in Florida. Maybe it's too big for any one individual to be a martyr for. The democratic party can and must though, or else we loose our democracy! We need strong leaders, not nice guys and gals.

[wisteria]

108. My opinion on John Kerry and Bolton is this,

Kerry is working behind the scenes purposely. Everyone must be aware on the committee of Kerry's opinion of Bolton. Kerry and Bolton go back to the Iran-Contra investigations. This can not be Kerry vs Bolton. It would be perceived as personal then and nothing more than partisan and sour grapes. It was extremely important that all the Democrats on the committee took an active roll in opposing and exposing Bolton for what he truly is a snake. John Kerry has actually tried to shame Chafee into reconsidering his vote.He encouraged RI voters to contact Chafee about their opposition to Bolton.

[whistle]

130. Senator Lincoln Chafee, Rep - RI .....what a piece of work this...

...guy is. He became Senator of RI. He became the Senator through appointment when his late father John Chafee dies leaving the unexpired senate seat open. The beginning of Republican aristocratic inheritance of office:

<snip>
Senator Lincoln Davenport Chafee was born in Providence on March 26, 1953. He attended Warwick Public Schools and Phillips Andover Academy. He earned a degree in Classics from Brown University in 1975. While there, he was captain of the wrestling team and received the Francis M. Driscoll Award for leadership, scholarship and athletics.

After Brown, Lincoln Chafee attended the Montana State University horseshoeing school in Bozeman. For the next seven years he worked as a blacksmith at harness racetracks in the United States and Canada. One of the horses he shod, Overburden, set the track record at Northlands Park in Edmonton, Alberta.

Returning to Rhode Island in 1983, Lincoln Chafee worked in manufacturing management, including a position as a planner at the General Dynamics facility at Quonset Point.

Lincoln Chafee began his political career in 1985, when he was elected a delegate to the Rhode Island Constitutional Convention. One year later, he was elected to the first of two successive terms on the Warwick City Council.
<more>

<link> http://chafee.senate.gov/biography.htm

...and this is what he said about John Bolton:

<snip>
Senator Chafee’s Statement on John Bolton’s Nomination to be Ambassador to the United Nations:

“The nomination of Undersecretary of State John Bolton brings a seasoned member to the Diplomatic team that will represent us through some very difficult times ahead. . . .Undersecretary Bolton has been an outspoken critic of the United Nations (UN). However, I have been assured that he will bring a more balanced approach to his new role...<more>

<link> http://chafee.senate.gov/releases/Bolton%20UN%20nomination3.07.05.pdf

Could yoy kindly post what, where and when Senator Kerry said that shamed Chafee into reconsidering his vote and that encouraged RI voters to contact Chafee about their opposition to Bolton? Thank you.

[wisteria]

138. Kerry/Chafee info

http://www.johnkerry.com/action/callchafee.php
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/04/06 Also, this information appeared in the Du on April 11,2005 titled,Kerry email and Rhode Island Ad on Bolton

[LittleClarkie]

66. From you, I'll take it

thank you for your positive comment regarding him as Senator.

[MoonRiver]

70. I'd never criticize a Democrat from doing a good job in our government.

We need as many of them as we can get.

[whistle]

72. Name one good job as Senator that Kerry keeps doing ....

[MoonRiver]

81. He's supporting Democratic liberal causes, but I don't have an

inventory at hand. Ask the Kerry folks. I never approved of his IWR vote, but other than that, and a few other goofs, he's been a good Senator for MA. He's a shitty presidential candidate though.

[wisteria]

77. I don't think the election outcome can be blamed on Kerry.

I blame dirty, crooked republican politics. A trumped up "War President", republican scare tactics, and a misinformed public mislead by a lazy, corporate owned MSM. Mistakes were made, but he fought hard and came close. My anger is directed at those who deserve it, the republicans.

[whistle]

93. How about an election process that is totally corrupted and tainted

...by both of the two parties which have wanted complete control over the outcomes of elections and won't allow fair democratic elections. The fixed voting machines are just a natural end product of a system that has been flawed for decades and always assures that victory will reside in one of the two major parties.

[imenja]

91. I will not support him for the presidency again

Period.

[LittleClarkie]

95. I believe his question was, despite that fact

Do you find it impossible to pass up a thread with his name on it without posting that you're disappointed in him, regardless of what the thread topic might be.

Or is that not a problem. Regardless of your feelings toward what happened in November, would you ever have anything positive to say about the man.

That's what I think the OP was trying to ask, not whether or not we'd support him or not. Just how that effects your reaction to seeing his name.

[whistle]

98. Nice, now you are changing the poll questions...here they are

...so that we are all clear about what is being asked:

"I will never see or hear the name "Kerry" without having to say how disappointed I am with his behavior about the election"

or

"I am able to appreciate what Kerry is doing now, regardless of how I feel about the election, and can say something positive about this"

The questions don't mention anything about threads or thread topics.

[imenja]

100. I quite clearly responded to the question

Obviously the election does impact my view of him, of I would not have answered as I did. Apparently you think his future political candidacy has no relevance. I fail to see how John Kerry has any relevance outside of that context. He is very clearly running for the 2008 nomination and has been since November 3.

Everyone has positive and negative qualities, and Kerry, like everyone else, has positive ones. But that strikes me as quite aside from any relevant point. It doesn't matter if I want to invite him to a backyard barbecue. He is a politician, and the only way in which he impacts my life is in terms of his political service and aspirations.

So when someone posts a thread asking if I think favorably about him, I answer the question in the only way that has any possible relevance--politics. If you want to date him, invite him to your house for dinner, or anything else, that is entirely your concern. The rest of us care about him as a politician. Anything else is entirely irrelevant.

So no, I can't pass up a thread that asks about my political views on the man without expressing them. If you don't want to hear them, I suggest you read something else.

[LittleClarkie]

107. Twas a bit short

I thought I'd clarify what I thought this person was asking, as it was difficult from your short comment to tell how you were answering his question. Wasn't clear at all, for me anyway. Seemed a bit beside the point.

Others here have said what you said, but otherwise responded in the affirmative in regard to being able to react positively to Kerry.

I didn't say I didn't want to hear your views. I was endeavoring to understand your response as it related to the poll.

I, unlike you, don't find the man irrelevant outside of his future presidential aspirations. If he can oppose the Bush agenda in some meaningful way, that would be relevant.

I'm not sure what the rest of the rant is about. Bush is the one everybody apparently wants to invite to have a beer. While that might be fun with Kerry, it's beside the point. I want him to fight the Bush agenda.

Put it to you this way. I don't particularly like Hillary. But I can separate how I feel about her future political aspirations from my reaction to her election bill, for instance. I can say positive things about it and her efforts. Her name is not a red flag for me. I can pass it up in a thread without saying "Fuck her in 2008. She's a pander monkey!" even though that's pretty much how I feel.

So if this poll was about Hillary, my answer would be yes, I can overlook what bugs the shit out of me about her to praise her if she does something good.

But whatever.

[imenja]

109. The OP chastised others for giving their reasons why

I simply gave my answer.

The rest of the rant related to Kerry's popularity. You objected to my expressing an opinion about Kerry as a presidential candidate. You in fact chastised me for "not passing up a thread" without expressing those views. I pointed out that my concern is with his political role, not whether or not he might be a nice guy. I agree that Kerry's actions in the Senate are relevant, but since I do not live in Massachusetts, my opinions on that have no impact on his career. We don't see such polls about senators without presidential aspirations or buzz. In fact, we don't see polls like this about many senators who are considered presidential hopefuls (Landrieu, Biden, Blanche Lincoln, etc..) Whether or not you wish to acknowledge it, this thread and others like it are clearly about his future presidential candidacy.

[LittleClarkie]

110. That was not my intention

I regret you read it that way. That wasn't how I meant it. I was trying to put the OP in different words as an explanation. It by no means was meant as a chastisement.

I've known for a while that the word "Kerry" is very nearly like a red flag to a bull to some people. It's interesting to find out how many "bullish" people we have on board.

And every post about Hillary or Clark et al is about 2008 too I suppose. But still, they will appear. And the Kerry ones with them. How will folks react? We have over thirty people the last I looked who say they will react badly. I assume they use the hide thread button alot then. Because it doesn't seem like 30+ plus people attack each Kerry thread. Unless they're taking it in shifts, of course.

Again, I'm sorry you saw my post as chastizing you. That was NOT the effect I was going for.

[imenja]

118. okay

I appreciate your clarification on your intent. All of us who are unhappy with Kerry don't respond to every thread for a number of reasons: 1) we have other things to do 2) there is no point rehashing the same old objections. I don't feel a need to hide the threads, I simply don't open them. But I tend to open most poll threads. Why? I guess I just like polls.

One thing to keep in mind: I expect the thirty-odd percent of DUers who have negative opinions of John Kerry pale in comparison to the country at large. Recent polls listed on Pollingreport.com make that clear. I think it is probably impossible for him to win a presidential election. In 2004, Kerry served as a lightening rod for unresolved conflicts over Vietnam. Many in the country have not reconciled the trauma of losing that war, and they vented their frustrations against John Kerry. My own concerns are quite different. I supported him actively in the general election. I volunteered hundreds of hours for the campaign--canvassing, making phone calls, voter registration, recruiting volunteers, coordinating get out the vote efforts, etc. I will not, however, do so again. If he should happen to be the nominee in 2008 I will probably vote for him, but I cannot again give the sweat of my brow.

[LittleClarkie]

121. Understood

Insert the name Hillary, and you might have my own 2008 behavior in a nutshell. It will depend mightily on the Republican nominee.

So, it sounds like you're not one of our "Red Bull" people. I know there are a few.

I don't know exactly how the country at large feels. I only know how I feel. It will probably look like Dukakis part II, but I'll be there, depressing myself because I still think he'd make one hell of a President. I just wish we could skip over the campaign part. Sometimes the guy who's best qualified for the job is not the best at campaigning, you know what I mean?

For now, I'll just pay more attention to politics than I ever have before, and try to figure out a way to keep our Dem Governor in place, as well as our Dem Mayor. The creep who tried to shortchange our ballots in Milwaukee is running for Governor. He must be defeated.

2008 will take care of itself when the time comes. Meanwhile, excuse this Kerryphile. How I act is my way of dealing with November 3, 2004. I understand others have their own ways. Hopefully we can avoid annoying the crap out of each other.

[imenja]

123. so why the Clark screen name?

I would have thought that meant you were a Clark supporter?

[LittleClarkie]

125. Back when I was still really unaware

Erica the sheeple had muttered to herself at the beginning of the Iraq war, "Okay, Bush, go in there if you think they have WMDs. I'll take Powell's word for it, because I think he has integrity. But you damn well better find some." They didn't obviously. Though still pretty much a sheeple, I had at least noticed that the justification for the war had gone from WMD to war of liberation because it spun better.

As we headed into the primaries, Clark said one thing, just one, that resonated. "9/11 is not a blank check with which to make war" or something similar. So I glommed onto him.

When he lost, I was aimless for a while. Then I found an obscure article about Gitmo, and all the detainees who'd been there for 2 years without due process. Bing! Hello! Erica's awake. I feared for those detainees. Little did I know then how right I was.

I turned at that point to the presumptive nominee, Mr. Styrofoam Personality, Sen. Kerry. I got a "Real Deal" sign from somewhere and put it in my window. That was me in ABB mode.

I slowly got to know the candidate, and slowly gained in knowledge of what's been going on. At one point, I was hanging out with the Republicans for Kerry, and in one of my posts in their forum, I referred to myself as "just a little Clarkie for Kerry." They liked "Little Clarkie," so it stuck.

At this point, something like "Kerrycrat" would be more accurate, and in fact that's what I use over at DailyKos, but I'm kind of attached to "Little Clarkie" now, so I kept it.

That's my story.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

137. Thanks for the Explanation

I was curious about that too. :-)

DTH

[uppityperson]

111. I'm back and THIS was my poll question as LittleClarkie says

Can you hear or see Kerry's name without having to post negative stuff about him. It is a simplistic poll and I explained elsewhere in here that I made it this way on purpose. Simply put, this poll didn't care why you feel a certain way, just asking how you behave. I do care about why you and everyone feels certain ways, and read responses on other topics about this BUT this was not the reason for this poll. The answers, both in the voting and in the responses are interesting.

I see I must've gotten bad words written to me earlier because I have a name removed post up higher. Oh well. As I also stated earlier, you can disagree with the poll and just not answer or respond. I too have felt very strongly about Kerry, but this poll was just to see how people acted, not why they acted that way.

Again, thanks all for participating.

[zulchzulu]

96. I'm doing a documentary about grassroot experiences in 2004

After viewing many hours of footage of Kerry grassroots film, I'm convinced Kerry is not only the real President but was also very correct about what has happened since.

Once the film is done, I am hoping that those that see the film will see a few things...mostly the hopefulness that many felt about winning and beating Bush (and the power of grassroots politics) and the dark side of how democracy is in deep trouble with the untruthfulness of the mainstream media and corruption when it comes to votes being really accountable...

Looking at the Kerry footage I filmed during the primary and election season, I see a man who is absolutely on my and America's side and one that our Founding Fathers would gladly claim an American hero. Period.

[LittleClarkie]

99. Sounds quite interesting

Hope to see it when it's done.

[zulchzulu]

103. Lots of Wisconsin/Iowa/Illinois footage

Madison is heavily featured. I just got John Nichols to talk about the race and the fallout. Hey, Wes is even in the flick (so far)...

[NAO]

106. Some Positive Comments on Kerry, Election Actions and Post-Election Action

Possibly Kerry - who has considerable investigative skills and resources - has made a judgment call that the election fraud battle is not going to go anywhere. What we at DU consider evidence, and what the Supreme Court would consider evidence, and what the American Public, approximately half of whom voted for Bush, consider conclusive evidence are not the same.

Even if Kerry had SOME documentation, it is not enough to BRING DOWN BUSH, and if Kerry brings the issue to the table it will use Democratic time and resources, will not result in an overturn of the results, and will be painted by the media and perceived by the public as "bad sportsmanship".

Look how well pursuing election fraud worked out for Gore - and he actually WON the election, beyond ANY DOUBT. Still, he was painted as "sore/loser man" and there are dozens of books about how Gore tried to "subvert democracy" and "steal the election".

***

With Kerry pursuing "Kids First" there is going to be a good outcome regardless of how it plays out.

First, there is no way to paint this program as a "bad program". It draws attention to the crisis in health care. It takes focus off of the "needy" (who are painted as "freeloaders") and puts focus on innocent, helpless children.

If the program passes, all children get health care. Even if it does not pass, the public has been made aware of the issue in a positive way, and the national agenda is forced into considering the issue of health care.

***

Painful irony: Kerry is touring to get benefits for children, while Bush tours to take benefits away from the elderly, widows, orphans and the disabled.

Remind me again, which candidate got the "values vote"?

[GRLMGC]

113. God, can we never mention Kerry again?

He could negotiate world peace and people would still shit on him. Let's face it, no matter what you post, you will get some attacks. Thank God for the ignore button.

[uppityperson]

114. You made me snort

Note for disruptor: post topic with subject line "kerry" and no message. It was an interesting, simple, telling poll. Thanks for the thoughts.

[orleans]

116. i still connect him with a big disappointment

[LittleClarkie]

119. Can you pass up a thread about him without saying so?

Or would you pass it by generally and not comment at all?

Or has he gotten the occasional cyber-cookie for a good deed, despite your overall disappointment?

Uppity appears to have been wondering more about our posting behavior combined with our feelings for or against Kerry, not just with the feelings themselves.

[orleans]

124. yes, i can pass up a thread about kerry without saying anything

just like i can with gore.

i guess it depends on what mood i'm in--if i'm feeling angry i might jump into the kerry thread and vent a bit

as i did with threads regarding the january 6th confirmation of the vote--how disappointed i was in all the senators except boxer.

[ngGale]

126. Kerry has been doing some great things since...

he returned to the Senate -- kids, vets. I've always thought he's a stand up guy.

[NoPasaran]

128. Yes

I saw him at a townhall meeting in Austin a few weeks ago and it wasn't until hours later that I remembered I was supposed to develop a white-hot fury about something or other.

[CWebster]

129. Aside from his attempts to connect to the rabble

with his soldier boy act--at a time of an illegal and immoral Invasion--and after he launched his political career protesting Viet Nam, which he now downplays, Kerry's response after the election was part of a pattern of ongoing disappointment. It seems his every action is weighed for political calculation (revealing poor instincts and bad judgement), and not for any principled stand in his personal quest to be president and fulfil his JFK fantasy.

For the benefit of Kerry's operatives and adoring fans, I voted for Kerry--but only as ABB, not as a confirmation.

Straight out, Kerry is a lousy politician--listless, flat, and unfortunately, right out of central casting as an elitist snob.

[Donailin]

131. Kerry won the election

and he is the President according to the will of the people. If he finally realizes this, imagine how he feels.

[Adelante]

132. Maybe the poll questions are too open-ended?

It may in fact be the case that the open wound the 2004 election left in its wake hasn't closed yet. It may be that when people see or hear Kerry or Edwards, the wound still smarts, and it's hard to view the individual outside the context of the election. This was the one we thought we had, remember. I mean, we've got to get over it and move ahead, but maybe this is one of those instant, emotional reactions that blurs the senses.

In any case, I doubt it's a forever kind of thing.

I don't view Kerry strictly in terms of the election, since I've always admired his excellent work as a Liberal Senator and I'm old enough to remember him as a young activist, so maybe it's easier for me to separate, I don't know. It may take others a bit longer, but don't lose hope.

Just keep on keepin' on and this will resolve itself.

[uppityperson]

135. Tried to make the question simple & clear-clarification here again

Thanks for participating and for your thoughts. Originally the question was more open, but I added the 2nd paragraph to clarify after the first couple responses:

"I am NOT asking for anyone to say how they feel about the election OR Kerry. I am asking ONLY if it is possible for you to hear/see Kerry and not respond about the election. "

I thought this was clear that I was asking about behavior, not about the reasons behind the behavior. I also thought that after I stated this several times that people would understand.

I am asking about behavior, WHAT you do, not WHY. I very strongly believe the WHY is quite interesting and extrememly important to understanding WHAT we do, but I wanted to see WHAT people do, so made a simple, simplistic, yes strange, "what do you do in a certain situation" poll. I am not using this for any publication or other political purpose and no one has to participate. I was only looking for behavior. Again, thanks for participating.

[CTLawGuy]

133. I'm happy he is doing good things now that he is a Senator again

but that being said, I could never support him for president in a primary without hearing an apology from him for voting for IWR.

I remember he said something to the effect that by voting for the IWR, he was just giving the president the power Kerry thought he deserved. to me that is dead wrong. The president does not DESERVE the power to make war whenever he wants. theres a reason the declarative power is given to the Congress.

I know some may respond to me by saying: well, he wouldn't have stopped the war by himself anyway, so whats the point?

but I say that an inability to stop a harmful act does not justify acting to enable it.