When has Bush ever 'fixed' a problem when they could 'use' it instead?

[applegrove]

I mean Bush & his politicos.

What problems have they actually fixed?

What issues have they solved?

None?

[realFedUp]

1. well the fix has been in

but nothing has been fixed you're right.

[MissWaverly]

2. they fix voting machines that aren't broken

[applegrove]

6. I do not agree that they fixed the vote on machines.. but the trust has

been broken and Bush has done nothing to help the transparency of the issues

..... because it benefits him a great deal to have Democrats divided and many people so untrusting of the voting machines.. that the diebold conspiracy buffs put that ahead of all the other issues the democrats are fighting: issues we have proof the Bush team abused (like long line-ups, vetting voters lists for black felons only, redistricting, and all the other wedging).

[MissWaverly]

10. I saw the machine I voted on default to Bush 5 times

when I touched the screen next to Kerry, the machine was rigged.

[applegrove]

15. First I've heard of it! Why? I've heard all the stories of line-ups and

redrawing boundaries. Why not one instance like yours in the news? I'll tell you why because there is no proof or witnesses.

The one thing Bush could do would be to change the laws to voting machines with paper trails. But he will not do it. Because keeping transparency from happening pays off to well in terms of numbers of DUers who can be whipped into a frenzy of not knowing what to believe.

The Repukes love fear. They love doling out fear like cards (here is some fear for you, some other fear for you, here is some different fear for the next group) and presto - people cannot get together to discuss the actual issues. Not if they are fighting amongst themselves.

How elites have always ruled.

[MissWaverly]

16. well, maybe you didn't hear about it because

I had to wait for 2 hours and was intimidated seriously at the registration table, I thought if it went on much longer there was a good chance that I would either be thrown out of the polling place (for wanting to vote/or beaten up) or BOTH. OH, and I had to show both MY DRIVERS LICENSE and MY VOTER'S REGISTRATION CARD and I HAVE never been ARRESTED. SO DON'T GO THERE! And when I went in to vote and the machine DEFAULTED to BUSH 5 times when I pushed the button next to KERRY, DO you THINK that I was going to RUN back out to the SAME people who intimidated me and COMPLAIN. Has it occurred to you that after being seriously intimidated that I did not call the news station because I might be afraid for my own safety. I didn't think so. AND MAYBE that's why you didn't see thousands of other people like me on the news for the SAME REASON. If you don't believe me, that's fine, me and the other thousands of people who had this experience WILL NEVER FORGET and will never stop FIGHTING for election reform. PS I am going off here right now and sending another 20 dollars to Dr. Dean just to make sure he doesn't forget about election reform either.

[applegrove]

17. I can well understand being intimidated to vote by some representatives...

I can well understand being way too intimidated to complain in a timely manner. I can well understand being forced to show two types of ID when that has not happened before(all it would take would be orders from Karl and every single Repuke scrutinizer in that district would turn the screws) and how unsettleling that would be.

There is a long history everywhere of slimy voting tricks. I do not doubt that some groups were vetted for felonies and others not. Or that some districts had long line ups and others have a plethora of voting machines. These things would be normal tricks. And could also be the result of normal human error or racism and intentional vote suppression.

I don't know what voting machines look like and I have no idea why setting the default to Bush would happen (default should be set to zero..). That makes no sense to me. I cannot say I believe you there (because I do not know you). There should be no representation of either candidate at the poll outside of the ballot (choices) themselves. And only one of each. But I have not voted in an American election.

And I do not doubt that you could have been intimidated or felt intimidated and too afraid to do anything but leave. Even if you had important questions. Some of us are not built for taking on monsters all by ourselves. Your body will tell you right away if you are up to the task of taking on evil or big power. Most of us are not built that way. Because most people who do take on a great evil or a great power all by themselves.. do end up paying for it. Heroes don't ride off into the sunset and neither do whistle blowers or witnesses or victims in criminal cases.

But I do not and have not heard of the votes in the machines being fooled with. That is just wishful thinking. Telling me you saw a faulty default is one thing. There could be numerous explanations for that. Votes being switched is still not a possibility. I have not heard any evidence of it.

Everything else could have easily happened. Cronyism exists in some districts. We know Rove redistributed some voting areas to make Repuke wins easier. Still those important districts to him would have had not just the saints (Vatican, African American Church elders) activated (we know about this) but also the nefarious types. I've known people who volunteered for elections in Canada back in the 1950s and it was "do you want to offer the winos the free drink? Or do you want to scrutinize".

I believe whole heartedly that vote reform needs to take place. And it is actually the President's responsibility that there is now such a lack of trust. It is a problem his administration and his political machine created. Unfortunately Bush is a puppet patsy and will not step up and solve problems when they so nicely fit into his political needs. Even though it is his job to lead the country in a time of war and strengthen the democracy. His cabal intentionally does not lead parts of the democrats..they intentionally play up certain fears. Playing with the mental health of their political enemies is just to easy for them. I hope the Bush family spends its retirement getting sued by the people who have been intentionally hurt by their constant emotional attacks, crazy-making, fear stirring & games. I hope they seen for what they are. But that would be wishful thinking on my part. Chances are they don't care. Chances are Rove & Bush are so vague in their statements that a case could not be made. Unless the pattern could make the case.

So that is why I say.. stop playing in what you wish there was proof of. Reality test by saying - okay - what is there proof of? And then you push for electoral reform on those issues. And you push on all the other stuff this admin does to destroy the country & the democratic party. To be able to be so discerning you may have to grieve the loss of security and the fact that there are monsters in the WH for 4 more years. Cry. Get mad. Go through all the stages. And then you can step back from wanting to 'switch things back to the safe America you loved' and you will accept that it really, truly is in trouble. And it is a much harder slog to fix it and fight for it ..than simply finding that machines were played with. You have to learn to accept the harder truth. You have sociopaths in your country. And they play in the grey area most often.. and you will be cutting losses and wining small battles. And you will be exhausted. But you will be fully adult and not investing in battles you either do not have the energy for... or for whom no proof exists.

[MissWaverly]

18. One thing we agree on

we must unite and seek a democratic win

[applegrove]

19. We must grieve and put aside sexy little ideas & quick fixes too.

This is going to be a big, long slog!

[MissWaverly]

20. don't know, there's much being leaked from UK on Iraq

they may impact this in a major way

[applegrove]

21. We have known for a long time that Blair needed more legal protection

to join Bush in a war in Iraq and insisted on UN votes. Was in Woodward's book.

But you see - you just brought up an event that actually happened and where there is much proof of nefarious intelligence gathering practices and suiting the evidence to the outcome they wanted.

See! I agree! Cause there is multitudes of proof.

Proof. A good thing.

[MissWaverly]

22. Well, let's hope it trickles thru the fluff news filter here

[applegrove]

23. You may want to go back to threads when Woodward's book first

came out. I wasn't here then but there was much on the news then. Of course nobody had admitted they were never going to find WMD then, so it does sort of matter the order in which we figure things out.

There may have been less of a fuss at the time since we still thought the War could end quickly and neatly when the book came out.

[Shallah Kali]

3. They deliberately fail on certain issues to keep voters on their side

They twist arms and even threatened a congrassman's son's political career to pass the medicare drug fiasco but do not strong arm congress to ban gay marriage, abortion, and other issues that induce frothing rage in the fundys. Jeb & W had legislation written to 'save' Terri Schavio that only applied to her, knowing for that reason alone it would be thrown out. They get political points from the fundys for 'trying' to the evil godless communist harry potter watching liberals and so get more campaign $ & firing up the fundy vote. By loosing they win. What other conclusion should I be coming too here?

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Shallah Kali]

9. Gee, I didn't realise I needed perfect spelling to post here

or that it deserved being cussed at.

[driver8]

14. Hey "dad" -- have another cup of fucking coffee...

WTF??? A little on edge, aren't you??

[applegrove]

5. Exactly. They need the problems to exist.. and they create them when

there are none.

[Nikki Stone 1]

7. It's a well-known strategy for making changes

A "crisis" is created, the desired change is sold as the "solution".

[applegrove]

8. They take that strategy to the extreme by bankrupting the government

which will force drastic change in the services government provides. And it will squeeze the middle class into being less empathetic to their fellow Americans. And presto - you have a democracy with a middle class split right down the middle by income.

Then they have enough people to garner a majority for years to come.

[FinallyStartingToWin]

11. Oh, I know one

They fixed that pesky problem of democracy where the people vote for the President.

in other words... They had a problem with the election, so they "fixed" it hehe (pun intended)

[MissWaverly]

12. oh, I wish they could open those machines in Ohio

open the machines, no more years, we really need an intelligent
solution in Iraq.

[driver8]

13. That is what I always ask...has Bush done ANYTHING positive for

this country?? I cannot think of one thing. That is pretty sad -- the guy has been the president for almost 4 and a half years and I cannot thing of one positive thing the man has done??