During last year's Wisconsin primary Al Sharpton and Dennis Kucinich as

[bobthedrummer]

well as Howard Dean, John Edwards and John Kerry all got more votes than Wesley Clark.

Some other potential Democratic candidates are going to be needed in 2008 indeed.

I'm starting to warm up to Barbara Boxer, and I really like Russ Feingold.

I'm impressed with what John Kerry has been doing as a Senator since the election.

Ideologically, I'm absolutely with Dennis Kucinich-he comes with no strings attached--there is an electability issue for POTUS with him though, unfortunately.

And Dennis (3.3%) polled more than twice the votes of Wes Clark (1.5%) here in my State of Wisconsin which did vote for Kerry/Edwards over Bush/Cheney last November.

But I don't think either Dennis Kucinich nor Wes Clark nor Al Sharpton, Richard Gephardt, Carol Moseley-Braun or Al Gore are more than marginal potential candidates, today.

Who else is hoping for a dark horse to emerge or to see some new tracks from a seasoned veteran Dem? Right now I'm looking at Boxer and Feingold. Then there's Hillary to always consider.

[JI7]

1. what is the point of this type of post ?

why not just make a pro Boxer and pro Feingold thread ?

without the negative comments about Clark

[LittleClarkie]

3. Indeed, and you and I are Kerry people, so please note people

that we don't like it when it's done to other folks either.

This kind of approach is just divisive, even if the OP had good things to say about my guy. Clark never got a real chance, and I'm not discounting him, or anyone else for that matter.

But I'm really more interested in 2006 right now.

[bobthedrummer]

4. It's about potential Democratic candidates that can win

the White House including the top three from 2004 primaries.

[LittleClarkie]

7. We've never seen Clark with a full-out campaign

He came in too late last time for a fair test. Therefore, I don't think he can be discounted.

None of them can, esp. depending on what they do between now and then. Clark and Kerry teamed up for military families, for instance. We need more of that kind of unity.

[JI7]

10. and you can make pro Boxer and pro Feingold threads

without being negative towards Clark.

[bobthedrummer]

11. Like you aren't giving me directions about any of my threads-understand?

Take it to the Administration if you think I'm being negative or something.:spank:

[lojasmo]

5. The comments are realistic.

Plenty of people pushing for clark as the "electable" one. Fact is, he did very poorly in Wisconsin and other must-win states. :shrug:

[LittleClarkie]

8. No telling what he could have done with a full campaign

instead of half of one.

[FrenchieCat]

43. Clark had dropped out by the time Wisconsin voted in the primary....

So that shouldn't be used as an example. In fact, he endorsed John Kerry IN WISCONSIN. Actually, Clark was ahead of Edwards in Wisconsin at the time that he dropped. He saw the writing on the wall and knew that John Kerry had it all locked up. That says he understands politics better than some...

WISCONSIN POLL
Likely Democratic
primary voters Feb 6, 2004
Wesley Clark 15%
Howard Dean 9%
John Edwards 10%
John Kerry 41%
Dennis Kucinich 2%
Al Sharpton 2%
Undecided 21%
http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/wi/

[cheezus]

2. Schweitzer

(dark horse)

[Dr Zoidberg]

6. I really like Feingold and Boxer

Ed Rendell strikes me as a potentially strong candidate too. Like you I'm ideologically right behind Dennis Kucinich (well, actually somewhat to the left of, but he's comes closer to my views thah any other dem), but naturally enough - given that he's the best candidate - he's totally unelectable in Dick Cheney's America.

[bobthedrummer]

9. Welcome to DU, Dr. Zoidberg!

I like you already!
:hi:

[Dr Zoidberg]

28. Why thank you, Bob!

It's good to be here. :hi:

[Jane Austin]

12. When was your primary in Wisconsin?

n/t

[bobthedrummer]

13. February 8th, I believe-there were 10 Democratic candidates then here.

[Jane Austin]

15. Didn't Clark withdraw on Feb 2nd?

After the Tennessee primary?

[Adelante]

29. He withdrew from the primaries on February 11

As has been said already, he endorsed Kerry on February 12.

[prvet]

22. Primary was Feb 17th

Clark endorsed Kerry Feb 12th

[LittleClarkie]

14. NOW WAIT JUST A COTTON PICKIN' MINUTE THERE, BUDDY!!!

Wes Clark had pulled out by then. He wasn't even in the race. You expected folks to vote for a guy who'd pulled out? Your premise, based on Wisconsin, is false. And not fair. At all.

[bobthedrummer]

16. You know what, I relayed the results of the Wisconsin primary to DU

and Wes Clark was one of them. It's archived.

[LittleClarkie]

18. Sure he was still on the ballot

But he'd already pulled out. That had a dampening effect on his votes.

He still won Oklahoma, something Sharpton or Kucinich or Braun couldn't claim. He got at least one state. And if he'd been more organized and come into the race sooner, there's no telling.

Uncool. Most uncool.

[Jai4WKC08]

41. A half-truth can be the same thing as a lie

Clark had already suspended his campaign by the time of the Wisconsin primary.

In fact, he specifically went to Wisconsin to endorse Kerry there, the Friday before the primary. Two days after he dropped out. For the sole reason of transferring his own strong support in the state to Kerry. Because before Clark dropped out, he was polling a fairly strong 2nd.

Now, I know polls don't much matter any more. Butcha know what? Neither do 2004 primary results. It'll be a whole new ballgame in 2008, and each candidate's campaign will sink or swim on its own merits.

I happen to think the 2006 elections (and 2005) are of more immediate importance, but I'm not one to say we shouldn't look beyond. One reasons Repubs win is because they plan and strategize way beyond the next election. So I can understand talking about who will run and who's qualified. And what each of them are doing now to prepare, or just doing to make the party stronger--the two are not mutually exclusive.

But what possible purpose is served by arguing who is better at campaigning? Will that stop any of them from giving it a shot? Should it? Aren't we better off with more choices than fewer?

Unless you're just trying to keep a flame war going, there's really no point to a thread like this.

[bobthedrummer]

21. I voted for John Kerry in November, did you?

What about Feingold? Did you vote for him in November-after all the marginal candidates were backing Kerry?

[LittleClarkie]

23. What's that got to do with anything?

I did more than vote for them. I worked their campaigns. Their stickers still grace my bumper.

Your comment about Clark still isn't fair. And I'm not even really a Clarkie anymore. But still...

[Still_Loves_John]

17. I'm by no means a big Clark fan

But thats a pretty flawed statement. Clark had basically dropped out at that point--his name was still on the ballot but he was no longer campaigning. With the nomination already wrapped up by Kerry, the other candidates who were actually hoping to win stopped getting votes--all the votes were for Kerry and the ideological candidates whose base, which never expected them to win anyways and therefore weren't deterred by the race being wrapped up, still voted for them.

[LittleClarkie]

19. I voted for Clark even though he'd dropped out

It was the only time I was going to be able to. And I wasn't a Kerrycrat yet.

[Still_Loves_John]

31. Thats what I'm saying though

Of course there were Clark people like you who really wanted to vote for Clark, but there are fewer of those for a candidate who was in it to win. Ironically, because Clark really had a chance in the beginning, at this point his supporters understood that it was over and (generally) didn't see the point in voting for him. The supporters of a Kucinich or a Sharpton, however, never really thought that they were gonna win in the first place, so the inevitability of a Kerry win didn't discourage them as much as it did Clark voters.

I realize how rambling that was, and I'm sorry, but I really couldn't put it more succintly.

[bobthedrummer]

33. Would you consider a woman in 2008?

I certainly would.

[LittleClarkie]

37. It certainly would depend on the woman.

Boxer, maybe. Clinton, eh.

[prvet]

20. Clark endorsed Kerry Feb 12th.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/02/12/politics1435EST0674.DTL">here

What a class act.

[LittleClarkie]

24. Actually I love them both

Two class acts.

[bobthedrummer]

25. Last year Wisconsin was a "battleground" State. We went for Kerry/Edwards

despite everything else. Howard Dean is still huge here. I'm glad he's stated he's going to help reshape the Democratic Party.
How Red is your State, what would it take to change that to Blue?

[prvet]

27. NC

Red, Edwards VP Candidate, stayed red!!!

[LittleClarkie]

38. How popular a Senator was Edwards?

Much as I think his intentions are good, I wonder how folks felt about the fast track he put himself on. I think he needs to slow down. He's still relatively young.

[Adelante]

26. Thanks to the decent Kerry supporters in this thread

The OP makes a habit of this type of misleading post when it comes to Wes Clark. As many have said, the Wisconsin primary was held on February 17 when Clark was no longer in the race.

These were the races Clark actually ran in:

January 19:
Iowa (Open Caucus)
Kerry - 38%
Edwards - 32%
Dean - 18%
Clark - 0%

January 27:
New Hampshire (Modified Closed Primary)
Kerry - 39%
Dean - 26%
Clark - 13%
Edwards - 12%

February 3:
Arizona (Closed Primary)
Kerry - 43%
Clark - 27%
Dean - 14%
Edwards - 7%

New Mexico (Closed Caucus)
Kerry - 42%
Clark - 21%
Dean - 16%
Edwards - 11%

Delaware (Closed Primary)
Kerry - 50%
Edwards - 11%
Dean - 10%
Clark - 10%


Missouri (Open Caucus)
Kerry - 51%
Edwards - 25%
Dean - 9%
Clark - 4%

North Dakota (Open Caucus)
Kerry - 50%
Clark - 24%
Dean - 12%
Edwards - 10%


South Carolina (Open Primary)
Edwards - 45%
Kerry - 30%
Clark - 7%
Dean - 5%

Oklahoma (Closed Primary)
Clark - 30%
Edwards - 30%
Kerry - 27%
Dean - 4%

February 7:
Michigan (Closed Caucus)
Kerry - 52%
Dean - 17%
Edwards - 13%
Clark - 7%


Washington (Modified Open Caucus)
Kerry - 49%
Dean - 30%
Edwards - 7%
Clark - 3%


February 8:
Maine (Closed Caucus)
Kerry - 45%
Dean - 26%
Edwards - 8%
Clark - 4%

February 10:
Tennessee (Open Primary)
Kerry - 41%
Edwards - 26%
Clark - 23%
Dean - 4%

Virginia (Open Primary)
Kerry - 52%
Edwards - 27%
Clark - 9%
Dean - 7%

[bobthedrummer]

30. This isn't another Clark hijack is it? I'd rather talk about Barbara

Boxer or Russ Feingold or someone else for a change.

I don't consider Wes Clark for POTUS, but he would make an asset to any Democratic administration. Big deal.

[Adelante]

32. You brought Clark into it in your OP - it's your own doing nt

[bobthedrummer]

36. Hey back then I was all about Dennis Kucinich and he did, in fact,

gather more votes than General Clark in my State. That's all over.

I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that DK, like Wes Clark, would be assets in any Democratic administration but not as POTUS.

So I'm looking at a lot of new faces as well as a few old ones.

[Adelante]

44. In your State where Clark was NOT in the race

So it does not apply no matter how often you repeat it.

[BootinUp]

39. Thats classic Bob! You really outdid yourself

with that response. eom.

[bobthedrummer]

40. See post 36 and wrap your head around it, Jim4Wes

that's really where this independent is at.

[BootinUp]

46. I have a small problem

wrapping my head around your posts when you won't acknowledge that your OP is an inaccurate portrayal of the primaries. More than one post in this thread attempts to put forth some facts, but you seem to be ignoring them.

Other than that I have no problem with you or any DU'er talking about which democrats you like in future elections. Take care.

[goodhue]

34. great list

But why did you leave Kucinich off?

He came in third in Maine and Washington.

[Adelante]

45. Yes, Dennis did

This was an old list, not compiled for this thread, and I was responding to the OP, who described Clark as "marginal," the evidence for this conclusion being a race Clark wasn't even running in. So I pulled up the list to show where Clark ran and how he ran. The truth of it.

No disrespect to Kucinich, because I respect him a great deal.

[BootinUp]

35. Yeah, I remember when Clark went with Kerry to Wisconsin

And threw his complete support behind Kerry, oh, thats after Clark withdrew from the primaries. Go figure.

[cestpaspossible]

42. After November 2006, we'll see...

[Crunchy Frog]

47. Hillary, Feingold, and Boxer

did absolutely terribly in last year's primaries. They all got fewer votes than Al Sharpton, Joe Lieberman, or even Wes Clark.

Since they all did so terribly in 2004, I don't see how anyone could think they would be decent candidates for 2008.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moderator]

49. Locking, Flame bait and unproductive n/t