Hospitals that won't permit abortions on their premises should be closed.

[Cuban_Liberal]

Yes, or no? Please feel free to expand upon your vote.

Edit: typo

[Lautremont]

1. Threads with incredibly loaded poll questions should be ignored.

But, as I myself am showing, it isn't likely to happen.

[Padraig18]

4. delete

:hi:

[LittleClarkie]

2. That would probably be most of them

Or else, why would we have abortion clinics.

[Beaverhausen]

3. If a woman was about to die if she didn't get an abortion

and the hospital refuses to perform the procedure do you think that is right?

[Liberty Belle]

6. I'd agree with you on that point.

If a religious hospital can't find another facility willing to take in a patient in a life-threatening situation, then they should be required to perform the abortion.

[Padraig18]

7. I'm asking about what's legal.

If you want to discuss what's right, please feel free to start thread about that.

:hi:

[Beaverhausen]

8. why won't you answer my question? I answered yours

:hi:

[Cuban_Liberal]

9. I stated clearly why.

:hi:

[Beaverhausen]

10. sorry I missed it.

can you please repost where you said why its OK for a hospital to refuse a life-saving legal procedure?

[Cuban_Liberal]

11. Just re-read post #7.

It's quite clear. we're both using the same comp, and I forgot to log him out before I posted.

[Beaverhausen]

12. no. That doesn't answer MY question

And i'm not starting a thread about it. I'm asking you.

I am guessing that you have no answer for it.

[Cuban_Liberal]

13. I said quite clearly why not.

I'm not going to participate in threadjacking my own thread.

[Beaverhausen]

14. Ok. Don't answer me

I didn't think you would.

[Cuban_Liberal]

15. I might elsewhere.

But not if it means 'jacking my own thread.

[Misunderestimator]

44. Happens a lot. So who posted the poll, you or him?

And why'd you post it?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

52. Victor/Victoria Doppelganger

[RevolutionaryActs]

53. .

:spray:

[Cuban_Liberal]

54. It doesn't happen a lot.

I psted i because of an answer I received elsewhere, in response to this question. I found the answer so extreme, that I wanted to see how other DUers felt, and the last time I looked, it was my right to do so.

[Misunderestimator]

58. Then a coincidence, since it just happened yesterday.

As for an answer to something elsewhere, perhaps you should link to it or quote it or something so that it's more clear what your meaning is. Otherwise, this just seems like anti-woman flamebait. Surely you can see that?

[Cuban_Liberal]

60. No, I don't see that.

Some people regard anything I post as flamebait, however.

[Misunderestimator]

62. Introspection about why that would be might be healthy.

[Cuban_Liberal]

64. That could apply to others, as well.

[Misunderestimator]

65. Yep... and if I posted what a lot of people construed as flamebait...

I would take a long hard look at myself.

[Cuban_Liberal]

66. Good thing for me is...

...that not ' a lot' of people think that--- just some.

[Misunderestimator]

68. Hmm... I guess "a lot" is a subjective quantity.

[Cuban_Liberal]

70. Indeed. n/t

[RevolutionaryActs]

71. No, I think there are quite a few people who think this flamebait.

Same goes for pretty much everything you post on a certain subject.

[Cuban_Liberal]

73. You're entitled to your opinion.

As am I.

[Liberty Belle]

5. Closing hospitals hurts everyone.

A hospital in our area closed. My dad had surgery in another hospital, and was forced to wait 11 hours after surgery before they could give him a bed! Meanwhile he was stuck in the recovery room, without enough nurses to keep track of things, not even permitted to see his family.

In general, I believe hospitals should be forced to provide abortion services. But I'd make an exception for religious-run hospitals, such as our local Catholic Hospital, which was ranked among the best hospitals in the country by a national news magazine. Religious hospitals should, however, be required to provide referrals elsewhere for women seeking abortions.

[mandyky]

16. Voted no - as much as I am pro choice

and think pharmacies should sell BC pills, abortions and hospitals are different. Many hospitals are run by religious organizations, and they shouldn't be forced to do something they don't believe in.

[Cuban_Liberal]

17. I'm in 100% agreement with you.

You've stated my own position beautifully.

[HockeyMom]

21. Ectopic Pregnancy in Catholic Hospital

So they should make me wait until my tube bursts and they don't have to "kill the baby"? Sorry, but that ectopic "baby" has no chance of survival, BUT I DO. They no right to put my life in danger because they won't abort an embryo in a Fallopian tube.

[Cuban_Liberal]

23. So, we close them?

That results in more and better health care how, exactly?

:shrug:

[oldcoot]

82. Exactly

While I do not favor forcing hospitals to perform elective abortions, I voted "yes" because I do believe hospitals should be required to perform abortions to save the mother's life. In the case you described, there is no reason for a hospital to refuse to perform the abortion. Why would anyone who is truly "pro-life" oppose saving the life of the mother?

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

25. You've hit the nail on the head, Mandy. n/t

[Warpy]

18. No, but they shouldn't pretend to offer services to women

meaning OB-GYN services, in markets where other hospitals are available to supply them.

In limited markets where there is little or no competition, yes, they should be sold to somebody who isn't quite as religiously fastidious.

Maternity wards in hospitals are big revenue generators. Closing them down in hospitals that refused to supply all womens' health needs would hurt them financially, enough so that I think those religious scruples might take a back seat to simple pragmatism.

[Cuban_Liberal]

19. What if no one wants to buy?

Few hospitals make much money in rural America, like where I live, for example; in fact, many of them have already closed because they're unprofitable. What if no one wants to buy the hospital? What then?

[Cuban_Liberal]

22. It's a vaild question.

In lots of places in rural America, St. Whoever's is the only hospital in the immediate area; despite not offering abortion services, they do offer emergency rooms, operating theaters, intensive- or special-care units, etc. . Wouldn't it be a net loss of health care to close them down?

[DanCa]

20. I voted yes (n/t)

[sandnsea]

24. Yes

I live in a rural town with a Catholic hospital that doesn't perform abortions at all. Just call them and ask them. They do D&C's, if a woman is dying. My daughter's OB told her to skip the local hospital and drive the 60 miles if she thought she was having complications. Helluva choice, go to the local hospital and risk having them wait until it's too late; or drive 60 miles and risk having it be too late.

If these hospitals don't want to provide abortions in a timely fashion, they should get out of the hospital business.

I haven't even called to find out whether they help rape victims with EC here. I really think I would lose my mind if my suspicions were validated.

[Fenris]

26. Deliberate flamebait.

Nice.

[AlCzervik]

27. Ditto

[Kathy in Cambridge]

28. Yup. It's like frickin' clockwork.

:eyes:

[Cuban_Liberal]

33. Then, by all means, alert on it.

:hi:

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tishaLA]

76. Yup

SOP

[IdaBriggs]

29. 2% of All Pregnancies are either tubal or cervical.

If these pregnancies are not terminated, Mom dies. Any hospital that is not willing to perform life saving surgery is *NOT* serving the community, and the administrators should be replaced.

[RevolutionaryActs]

30. An abortion is a medical procedure.

No hospital should refuse to do a medical procedure. Especially one that is common, and involves no risk to the patient.


So guess how I voted.

[Bunny]

31. Another thinly-disguised anti-woman thread.

I'm SHOCKED, shocked I say!

Yawn.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

32. Subtle as a sledgehammer

:rofl:

[Cuban_Liberal]

37. Some of your fellow DUers propose to do just this.

There was nothing subtle about their posts, so I fail to see why it's not a fair subject for an opinion poll.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

56. If you don't see what they're talking about, I can't help you.

Peace.

[Cuban_Liberal]

34. What's anti-woman about it?

That's a nice catch-all phrase, but it's essentially meaningless.

[RevolutionaryActs]

36. Meaningless?

So it's meaningless if someone or something is anti-woman?

What if someone was anti-gay? Would that be meaningless too? :shrug:

[Cuban_Liberal]

39. It's meaningless if you don't define it.

If you don't say how the plt is 'anti-women', then yes, it's meaningless.

[Bunny]

38. As is this thread.

[Cuban_Liberal]

40. This thread is based on another post by another DUer.

:hi:

[Bunny]

48. Well, you started THIS thread.

[Cuban_Liberal]

51. I surely did.

:hi:

[meganmonkey]

35. Don't you think a better discussion would transpire here

if the question was a little different? If I were beginning a conversation about hospitals that don't provide abortions I could think of about a hundred positions someone could take and 99.9% do NOT include forcing them to close.
In general I have no problem with hypotheticals - discussions of ethics in hypothetical situations can be fascinating, one can earn a lot about oneself. But this question seems to be so heavily loaded.

There is no fair way to discuss this question. You are giving ONE option, an extreme one, and you are leaving no room for discussion. Yet if someone implies that they don't agree 100% with you on this issue, then they MUST think such hospitals should close because you give them no other choice.

:shrug:

[Bunny]

41. Don't waste your time.

It's intended to be loaded, to stimulate a quasi-debate, where brilliant skills of argument can be displayed.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

46. Hardly brilliant; more like childish and coy

:eyes:

[Bunny]

50. One could say sophomoric, but it may be too early for that.

If you get the way I've drifted.

[rodeodance]

42. I think the actual question is not worded well at all. I am not sure what

it actually means.

Poll question: Hospitals that won't permit abortions on their premises should be closed.

[Cuban_Liberal]

45. It's not in the least ambiguous.

But thanks, any way.

[rodeodance]

47. why would a premie have an abortion? (you question does not sense

to me)

[Cuban_Liberal]

49. The question is a straightforward one.

:hi:

[Cuban_Liberal]

43. That's because of an answer I received when I asked this question.

That poster said that any hospital that doesn't provide abortion services shoud be closed, which is a extreme position; I anted to see what other DUers thought about that.

[meganmonkey]

55. I see.

Maybe you should write polls for the major network websites. They like loaded questions that force people into one of two extreme boxes.

I much prefer to avoid such boxes.

Each to their own, I suppose.

[Cuban_Liberal]

59. People should avoid taking black-and-white stances on some issues, too.

When you take an 'either/or' position, you should realize that that position has logical consequences, even if you don't intend them.

[meganmonkey]

67. Not sure what you mean...

and I think I'm done with this. I have read enough of these sorts of threads to know better.

I was trying to approach this from a different angle but it doesn't look like a logical conversation is possible here.

Peace.

[Cuban_Liberal]

69. This link should explain it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1753322&mesg_id=1753739&page=

[Misunderestimator]

75. Beaverhausen expressed an opinion that physicians should get out

of the business of being doctors if they refuse to perform legal medical procedures... Where on EARTH did you get that she said that a hospital should be shut down if it did not permit abortions?

Now I see why you didn't link to this supposed source for your question.

If you wanted to know her opinion on hospitals, why didn't you just ask her?:

Cuban_Liberal
27. What about physicians and abortions?

There are doctors who refuse to perform abortions, and abortions are definitely within a physician's 'line of work'. Should those doctors find another line of work, too?

Beaverhausen
28. yes. If they refuse to perform a legal medical procedure they should

get out of the profession.

[Cuban_Liberal]

77. Read the whole subthread.

She also expressed the opinion that hospitals should close, if they didn't allow abortions to be performed on their premises, did she not?

[Misunderestimator]

78. So, you link to one post, but then you want me to read the whole sub-

thread to find the needle... Meh... :hi:

[Cuban_Liberal]

79. My link is the correct one.

But yeah, I wouldn't think it was a terribly strenuous thing to do, nonetheless.

:hi:

[rodeodance]

57. then why did you put the word premie into your question if you are

talking of hospitals? And, no, your question is NOT straigtforward.

[Cuban_Liberal]

61. I didn't.

Please show me where I did.

[rodeodance]

72. sorry i have looking at this screen too long

i read premises as premies

[Cuban_Liberal]

74. No blood, no foul.

Until I read your post just now, I was truly puzzled.

:hi:

[Montauk6]

63. It's really impossible to answer this question

I mean, there are so many OTHER issues not even related to the traditional debate. For example, what if the hospital is not properly licensed to host such procedures?

I can only answer "depends on the circumstances."

[Poppyseedman]

80. I am always in favor of cutiing off my nose in spite of my face

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[Moderator]

83. Locking

Recurring flamewars have overtaken productive discussion on this thread